Surrogate babies stranded in Ukraine

ceadaoin.

has anyone seen this on the news? Dozens of babies who were due to be adopted abroad by parents who had paid women to carry their children are now stranded due to the lockdown as their parents are unable to enter the country. The number could be up to 1000 if the situation continues.

I found it quite shocking and sad. We all know how important attachments are to infants and their development and these poor children are left with no parental bonds whatsoever at a crucial time. Surely it raises questions about how ethical it is to treat humans as products in this way? It does for me anyway. Commercial surrogacy on this scale is basically exploitation and human trafficking really.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/15/europe/ukraine-surrogacy-babies-lockdown-intl/index.html

I hope they can be reunited with their parents soon

Gatling

It shouldn't be allowed ,I've defended Ukraine and it's dealing with the russian occupation of their territory for years now on here,

But this is shocking to see ,I've been following the story for a few weeks now ,it's actually looks something akin to Catholic mother and baby homes here in the 1950s onwards selling babies to couples under the guise of adoptions ,
This is industrial scale surrogacy and should not be allowed full stop

ceadaoin.

Gatling wrote: »

It shouldn't be allowed ,I've defended Ukraine and it's dealing with the russian occupation of their territory for years now on here,

But this is shocking to see ,I've been following the story for a few weeks now ,it's actually looks something akin to Catholic mother and baby homes here in the 1950s onwards selling babies to couples under the guise of adoptions ,
This is industrial scale surrogacy and should not be allowed full stop

Yes its pretty much a baby farm isn't it? The saddest thing is how quiet the babies are. Its well documented that babies stop crying when they dont get their needs met, and not just nappy changes, feeding etc but emotional needs. Babies are programmed to bond and form attachments to their primary caregiver and if they don't it causes lifelong effects.I really hope that some of them aren't rejected by their parents because of this

Gatling

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Yes its pretty much a baby farm isn't it? The saddest thing is how quiet the babies are. Its well documented that babies stop crying when they dont get their needs met, and not just nappy changes, feeding etc but emotional needs. Babies are programmed to bond and form attachments to their primary caregiver and if they don't it causes lifelong effects.I really hope that some of them aren't rejected by their parents because of this

Seen a story where one half of a couple is in Ukraine his partner is in another country and he's saying they are using an iPad to bond with the child they bought , an ipad and what looks like maternity ward is actually a hotel ,
It's definitely not good for the poor infants I'd say it can't be easy on the actual birth mothers seeing their babies left sitting there almost abandoned

ceadaoin.

Gatling wrote: »

Seen a story where one half of a couple is in Ukraine his partner is in another country and he's saying they are using an iPad to bond with the child they bought , an ipad and what looks like maternity ward is actually a hotel ,
It's definitely not good for the poor infants I'd say it can't be easy on the actual birth mothers seeing their babies left sitting there almost abandoned

An ipad? You can't bond with a baby over FaceTime ffs. They need touch, cuddles, warmth, actual eye contact. Shocking and distressing that anyone would think that's OK but if one half of the couple is there then that's something I guess.

And yes, the birth mothers are an after thought and not even worthy of mention apparently.

Waccamacca3

Can't believe the babies just left even if mothers are surrogate. Also some are waiting for Irish people to pick one up just like a shop but paying 40k is a joke

lawred2

The late late show had a seriously warped interview with Rosanna Davidson who did exactly this - went off to Ukraine to buy a surrogate.. I found the whole thing seriously off yet the LLS was all in with the attempt to paint it as a wondrous happening.

I'm not surprised this has happened... treat women and babies as a for profit industry and you're going to get some nasty unintended consequences..

I wonder are they squirming now?

Montage of Feck

Something very unsettling about the whole surrogacy thing. Yet the way it is portrayed in the media is completely one sided with little questions asked.

Waccamacca3

Just wouldn't surprise if a girl has one kid every 2 years 40k is alot money in ukraine

Unfortunately the surrogacy process is a lot more straightforward than adoption in this country and many Irish people who suffer fertility issues are presented with the surrogacy option as an easier path.

alchemist33

I'm okay with this if the parents adopting have at least one genetic link to the baby. But if not it is what a poster above said - a baby farm. And that really doesn't sit well with me.

Manion

It certainly raises some challenging ethical and moral questions and is an idea that makes a lot of people uncomfortable. However being uncomfortable with it doesn't mean it should be illegal. Challenging ethical and moral questions deserve answers.

lawred2

Waccamacca3 wrote: »

Just wouldn't surprise if a girl has one kid every 2 years 40k is alot money in ukraine

the girls won't see a tenth of that money

Wombs for hire, people who think that it's unfair if they can't get what they, sad all around.

Mrs OBumble

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'm okay with this if the parents adopting have at least one genetic link to the baby. But if not it is what a poster above said - a baby farm. And that really doesn't sit well with me.

Womb farming is ok?

Nah.

ceadaoin.

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'm okay with this if the parents adopting have at least one genetic link to the baby. But if not it is what a poster above said - a baby farm. And that really doesn't sit well with me.

Even if the biological parents are one or both of the "buyers", it is still a baby farm. How else could you describe a place creating hundreds or thousands of children, solely for the purpose of profit, within months? These human beings, the mothers and babies, are commodities..thats the reality of this.

Alrigghtythen

If the surrogate mothers are not forced then its their body their choice

suicide_circus

Surrogacy is a millennia old practice.

It may seem f*cked up but its not new or strange.

Mike3287

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'm okay with this if the parents adopting have at least one genetic link to the baby. But if not it is what a poster above said - a baby farm. And that really doesn't sit well with me.

Many countries have banned these baby farms, so its big business in Ukraine

My wife is half Ukrainian and has heard horror stories of treatment of the babies, alot are not happy it goes on in the Ukraine and its big news at the moment now, they are hoping it will be banned very soon

Babies being left behind if buyers are not happy with how they look, have any disability, will cause them any hardship, couple breakup, not what they signed up for etc, anything you can imagine basically has happened

Twins are very popular and alot of buyers are homosexuals, rich russians

Not your your dream couple Rosanna Davidson and husband that cant have a baby

blacklilly

I understand it’s not a populist view to have but it does seem that children are treated as a commodity to many.

The question of whether having children is a ‘right’ is never really fully addressed.

While there have been so many advancements to assist couples in conceiving, some of these advancements do have moral consequences.

It’s all well and good saying ‘her body, her choice’ but when the woman in question is living in abject poverty and has little or no choice or way to earn a living, the offer of being a surrogate can be very enticing. It is well documented that commercial surrogacy agencies have little regard for these women and by virtue of the service they provide are mostly concerned with profit.

We may have come along way in some respects but commercial surrogacy is nothing to be proud of in my opinion.

It’s just unfortunate that many media outlets don’t tend to highlight these stories as there seems to be a lot of ignorance in terms of the reality of the so called service.

SEPT 23 1989

I was never comfortable with this

Could you shut out this kind of thing mentally even if you were desperate enough to go this way to have a child

Sometimes you have to accept what's not meant to be is meant to be

Purple Mountain

Mike3287 wrote: »

Many countries have banned these baby farms, so its big business in Ukraine

My wife is half Ukrainian and has heard horror stories of treatment of the babies, alot are not happy it goes on in the Ukraine and its big news at the moment now, they are hoping it will be banned very soon

Babies being left behind if buyers are not happy with how they look, have any disability, will cause them any hardship, couple breakup, not what they signed up for etc, anything you can imagine basically has happened

Twins are very popular and alot of buyers are homosexuals, rich russians

Not your your dream couple Rosanna Davidson and husband that cant have a baby

Is there any podcast or video interviews anywhere on this?
Never really thought about this side of it only the happy ever after stories.

ceadaoin.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Surrogacy is a millennia old practice.

It may seem f*cked up but its not new or strange.

Dont you mean adoption? Paying (usually impoverished) women to gestate children who may not even have a genetic link to them, on an industrial scale, is new and strange.

ceadaoin.

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Is there any podcast or video interviews anywhere on this?
Never really thought about this side of it only the happy ever after stories.

Here is an article I found earlier, specifically about Ukraine

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-20/ukraines-commercial-surrogacy-industry-leaves-disaster/11417388

Mike3287

Purple Mountain wrote: »

Is there any podcast or video interviews anywhere on this?
Never really thought about this side of it only the happy ever after stories.

I'll ask

Pregnancies are complicated, anyone that has had a child knows anything can happen.

Yes its not all fairy tales like Ryan Tubridy projects with miss universe Rosanna, the plane to Kiev

Would Rosanna have taken that baby girl if it was born blind or needed many heart surgeries or would she have waited a year for a healthy baby?

suicide_circus

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Dont you mean adoption? Paying (usually impoverished) women to gestate children who may not even have a genetic link to them, on an industrial scale, is new and strange.

they were doing it in Babylonia man

Marcusm

Waccamacca3 wrote: »

Just wouldn't surprise if a girl has one kid every 2 years 40k is alot money in ukraine

I would imagine she sees very little of it.

sabat

lawred2 wrote: »

The late late show had a seriously warped interview with Rosanna Davidson who did exactly this - went off to Ukraine to buy a surrogate.. I found the whole thing seriously off yet the LLS was all in with the attempt to paint it as a wondrous happening.

I'm not surprised this has happened... treat women and babies as a for profit industry and you're going to get some nasty unintended consequences..

I wonder are they squirming now?

So let me get this straight, we've got the daughter of a has-been cornball singer who came to public attention by posing naked in a pornographic magazine then gobbling Johnny Ronan's pirate cock for a free trip to Morocco. She marries the son of former Garda Richard Quirke who operates a quasi-legal casino on O'Connell St. Then, using money bled out of Dublin's slot machine addicts, they travel to the far east of Europe to rent a poor woman's body for nine months then remove the newborn infant from her arms. All the while she has been updating the public on social media about how much of a struggle her personal "journey" was.
Upon their return they are given a slot on the country's most popular television show where we are virtually compelled to applaud them, idolise them even.

sabat

sabat wrote: »

So let me get this straight, we've got the daughter of a has-been cornball singer who came to public attention by posing naked in a pornographic magazine then gobbling Johnny Ronan's pirate cock for a free trip to Morocco. She marries the son of former Garda Richard Quirke who operates a quasi-legal casino on O'Connell St. Then, using money bled out of Dublin's slot machine addicts, they travel to the far east of Europe to rent a poor woman's body for nine months then remove the newborn infant from her arms. All the while she has been updating the public on social media about how much of a struggle her personal "journey" was.
Upon their return they are given a slot on the country's most popular television show where we are virtually compelled to applaud them, idolise them even.

Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

So we have no right to criticise people who steal to feed a drug habit, unless we have a drug habit ourselves? Etc?


Rubbish.

Womb rental is wrong, end of story.

It exploits the baby carriers and creates a market for breeding children to order.

august12

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So we have no right to criticise people who steal to feed a drug habit, unless we have a drug habit ourselves? Etc?


Rubbish.

Womb rental is wrong, end of story.

It exploits the baby carriers and creates a market for breeding children to order.

Let s/he without sin cast the first stone:
This makes for an interesting read, how many of us here buy clothes from any of these brands?

https://www.gallantintl.com/blogs/your-clothes-are-exploiting-workers

Now let's talk about exploitation.

splinter65

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If the surrogate mothers are not forced then its their body their choice

What about the baby?!?

Alrigghtythen

splinter65 wrote: »

What about the baby?!?

That has nothing to do with the woman's choice to get pregnant

splinter65

suicide_circus wrote: »

they were doing it in Babylonia man

Does that make it ok then?

Treppen

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

If the surrogate mothers are not forced then its their body their choice

Then why are all these surrogacy farms in areas of severe poverty?

Treppen

august12 wrote: »

Let s/he without sin cast the first stone:
This makes for an interesting read, how many of us here buy clothes from any of these brands?

https://www.gallantintl.com/blogs/your-clothes-are-exploiting-workers

Now let's talk about exploitation.

Bit of a straw man argument there.

Oh look at other things that are bad so it makes this equally bad which...is good?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

That was one of the saddest things I have ever seen and there's a reason this is illegal in many countries.

Absolutely tragic situation for those babies, the staff, the surrogates and prospective parents.

It shouldn't be allowed, it was like the lady doing the video was featuring in an ad for a luxury timeshare.

I was disgusted by it, those poor children. Nothing more than a baby farm.

If someone's sister did it for her sister could not conceive a baby, would there be any problem with that?

Mr_Muffin

Babies born into the world to be sold. Barbaric practice.

Alrigghtythen

Giselle Incalculable Perpetrator wrote: »

That was one of the saddest things I have ever seen and there's a reason this is illegal in many countries.

Absolutely tragic situation for those babies, the staff, the surrogates and prospective parents.

It shouldn't be allowed, it was like the lady doing the video was featuring in an ad for a luxury timeshare.

I was disgusted by it, those poor children. Nothing more than a baby farm.

Do you think adoption should be allowed?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Do you think adoption should be allowed?

If a child that's already born is given the opportunity to have a family (where none exist or its not possible for them to keep it) then yes.

But it's very different than planning to exploit some impoverished young woman who risks her physical and mental health to provide a child in return for cash.

How anyone can raise a child borne out of that I don't know, it's pure selfishness.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So we have no right to criticise people who steal to feed a drug habit, unless we have a drug habit ourselves? Etc?


Rubbish.

Womb rental is wrong, end of story.

It exploits the baby carriers and creates a market for breeding children to order.

I agree with you. But the poster was having a pop at a mother who had to resort to using a surrogate due to her inability to carry a baby. It’s a very emotional subject and just because her father is high profile it doesn’t give anyone the right to talk about them in such a way b

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

bullsh!t

Lyan

Tyrannical to allow free individuals to bring a child into the world to increase the prosperity and happiness of the parents, but also tyrannical to ban parents from gorishly aborting their children for their prosperity and happiness. I don't think I'll ever understand the Irish and this seemingly new definition of "liberalism".

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

bullsh!t

Why? Because it’s not your viewpoint?

jam_mac_jam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Until you’ve been unable to have a baby yourself, you have no right to criticise others who find themselves in this unfortunate, soul destroying situation.

Of course we have a right to criticise. There is a reason that it's banned in most countries. The absolute entitlement of people to have a baby is not more important than impoverished peoples lives.
Adopt, foster or just accept it.

Alrigghtythen

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Of course we have a right to criticise. There is a reason that it's banned in most countries. The absolute entitlement of people to have a baby is not more important than impoverished peoples lives.
Adopt, foster or just accept it.

You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

Gatling

Unless there is varifed extenuating circumstances you should not be allowed to buy a foreign baby and register the child/children as Irish citizens or be allowed to bring a foreign born baby through surrogacy here ,
It should be outlawed ,it's amazing how we get the excuse we can't adopt here (no perfect blue eyed newborns to be had ) plenty of other children here need families but not good enough for the well to do ,

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

Willingly?? I bet if they had any other choice it wouldn't be to be someone else's baby incubator.

Money, money, money that's all those baby factories are about.

No better than human trafficking.

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Because it’s not your viewpoint?

Surrogacy with a willing sister, relative, friend etc I'm all for that

Taking advantage of those in lesser socio economic situations is not right in my mind.. Especially when a lot of these cases will involve local mafia run operations...

Maybe you've no issue with rich people taking advantage of such vulnerable poor people in this way.. Not much of a viewpoint that I'd have much respect for personally. No amount of personal pain gives you a free pass to cause pain for others.

jam_mac_jam

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

You think you have the right to dictate what a woman does with her womb?

Yes, that's what this about. Women's rights to be farm animals.