Employer not reopening locker rooms after COVID

bingobars

Hi Guys,

Wondering about your thoughts on this one, again I feel cyclists are not being given a fair deal at my workplace as we have no one doing our bidding.

Employer is a large multinational with great gym and locker room facilities. In efforts to return people to work the gym will remain closed along with lockers/showers and drying room. This would mean cyclists may have to rely on public transport for a period of time until things get back to normal.

I'm disappointed as this would have been an opportunity to encourage cycling which is an excellent example of socially distant commuting and vital to the health of our society, any moves we make to discourage cycling during the return period would be regressive.

The company's move to keep the facilities closed reflects the country wide approach to gyms and swimming pools and in this event it is disappointing that cycling as transport is being treated as not 'necessary'.

Perhaps this will have a long standing impact, as I'm opening this up for discussion what other viewpoints can this bee seen from other than my own??

crosswords

It sounds counterproductive. You are more likely to be exposed on public transport.

Coming in on a bike means you are less likely to bring the virus in.

Gyms have to stay closed but locker rooms and showers should be fine as long as cleaning and the 2 metre distancing rule is in place.

magicbastarder

i'm not sure i'd want to share a changing room with other cyclists in the current climate. i know some people where i work are not quite as diligent as others when it comes to these things.

amdublin

I'd see it (unfortunately) wrapped up in the gym protocol.

Like if they can't guarantee it's safety do you really want to use it?

What about cycling in and just getting changed in the toilet?

F34

bingobars wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Wondering about your thoughts on this one, again I feel cyclists are not being given a fair deal at my workplace as we have no one doing our bidding.

Employer is a large multinational with great gym and locker room facilities. In efforts to return people to work the gym will remain closed along with lockers/showers and drying room. This would mean cyclists may have to rely on public transport for a period of time until things get back to normal.

I'm disappointed as this would have been an opportunity to encourage cycling which is an excellent example of socially distant commuting and vital to the health of our society, any moves we make to discourage cycling during the return period would be regressive.

The company's move to keep the facilities closed reflects the country wide approach to gyms and swimming pools and in this event it is disappointing that cycling as transport is being treated as not 'necessary'.

Perhaps this will have a long standing impact, as I'm opening this up for discussion what other viewpoints can this bee seen from other than my own??

They are not opening the gym and shower facilities to anyone so struggling to see how you’ve taken this a a slight against cyclists as the same could be said for people walking or running to work.

Communal showers will take a long time to return maybe even beyond August due tothe cleaning necessary after each use.

bingobars

amdublin wrote: »

I'd see it (unfortunately) wrapped up in the gym protocol.

Like if they can't guarantee it's safety do you really want to use it?

What about cycling in and just getting changed in the toilet?

Nothing would stop me from doing this but common sense and hygiene..
Perhaps I should ask would it be ok for me to do so for a response

benneca1

This is one situation where I would go ahead and do it without asking, If challenged shrug your shoulders and say what am I supposed to do.

F34

benneca1 wrote: »

This is one situation where I would go ahead and do it without asking, If challenged shrug your shoulders and say what am I supposed to do.

So endanger himself and others sounds like an ideal way to be shown the door.

krissovo

Could be time to invest in a electric bike or a cheap conversion, or just have have a chilled out ride in.

Option gross is a good spray of 96hr deodorant which I discovered during the lockdown does exactly what it says on the tin

iwillhtfu

benneca1 wrote: »

This is one situation where I would go ahead and do it without asking, If challenged shrug your shoulders and say what am I supposed to do.

What the vast majority of cyclists that commute by bike and don't have showers/locker rooms do. Suck it up and use a sink if you must

I don't think OP is to concerned about the merits of cycling to work I just think it's inconvenient for him.

YakerK

iwillhtfu wrote: »

What the vast majority of cyclists that commute by bike and don't have showers/locker rooms do. Suck it up and use a sink if you must

I would imagine the vast majority of cyclists do have showers - unless you are having a gentle cycle in over what could be walking distance, not viable to not have a shower!

@OP Have you asked your employer why they made this decision? Is it possible they haven’t thought about showers/changing facilities being used by those cycling/running to work and assume it’s 100% linked to the gym?
It’s like closing the car park or the shuttle bus if they have and impacts ability to get to work! I’d imagine that any reasonable employer would realise this once asked. If facilities management are not helpful go higher within your company.

Car99

benneca1 wrote: »

This is one situation where I would go ahead and do it without asking, If challenged shrug your shoulders and say what am I supposed to do.

And if you meet another twenty people in the locker room with your point of view when you arrive will you complain to your employer that it not on on that nobody is following the rules or will you shrug your shoulders and risk it.

Starlord_01

YakerK wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority of cyclists do have showers - unless you are having a gentle cycle in over what could be walking distance, not viable to not have a shower!

@OP Have you asked your employer why they made this decision? Is it possible they haven’t thought about showers/changing facilities being used by those cycling/running to work and assume it’s 100% linked to the gym?
It’s like closing the car park or the shuttle bus if they have and impacts ability to get to work! I’d imagine that any reasonable employer would realise this once asked. If facilities management are not helpful go higher within your company.

Presumably based off national public health advice? They aren't doing it just because they want to.

benneca1

F34 wrote: »

So endanger himself and others sounds like an ideal way to be shown the door.

How is not showering after cycling in a cause for dismissal

iwillhtfu

YakerK wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority of cyclists do have showers - unless you are having a gentle cycle in over what could be walking distance, not viable to not have a shower!

@OP Have you asked your employer why they made this decision? Is it possible they haven’t thought about showers/changing facilities being used by those cycling/running to work and assume it’s 100% linked to the gym?
It’s like closing the car park or the shuttle bus if they have and impacts ability to get to work! I’d imagine that any reasonable employer would realise this once asked. If facilities management are not helpful go higher within your company.

I doubt it and why wouldn't it be viable without? I know many that do commute by bike without showers. In fact more than those that commute with.

bingobars

YakerK wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority of cyclists do have showers - unless you are having a gentle cycle in over what could be walking distance, not viable to not have a shower!

@OP Have you asked your employer why they made this decision?

I'm in the process of highlighting this the moment. They did not consider those who commute by bicycle in the decision IMO.

My commute is a 20km hilly sweat inducing leg burner, if it was a handy cruise across town I wouldn't be bothered about it.

plodder

Where I work, there is only room for two people at a time in the locker/shower room. So, if this happens to us, it wouldn't be that hard to use a simple one-at-a time system. If the area is much bigger, then work out how many can use it safely at the same time. You could put a sheet of paper on the door with a pen, and get everyone to sign in and sign out. Sooner or later employers with these facilities will have to make compromises like this imo.

codie

I think you are expecting too much. We are all making sacrifices. Your employer is correct and has to think of the workforce as a whole. Think the way things are many people would envy you still having a job.

Hurrache

I don't think he/she is expecting too much at all. It'll be inconvenient, and an effort, but it can be done with a bit of thought and a virtual queuing system of some sort. Alternative is wet wipes and a towel, does the job for a whole different profession.

The whole just be thankful you have a job is a nonsense.

billybonkers

Baby-wipes and a toilet cubicle should do the trick

amdublin

bingobars wrote: »

Nothing would stop me from doing this but common sense and hygiene..
Perhaps I should ask would it be ok for me to do so for a response

Why do you need to ask permission what you do in a toilet cubicle Will you be asking them can you do a number 2 next :pac:

Just go in to the cubicle with baby wipes, get changed and spray some deodorant and bob's your uncle.

I did it for years when I worked somewhere that had no showering facilities.

Biker79

billybonkers wrote: »

Baby-wipes and a toilet cubicle should do the trick

Exactly this.

Learn the areas of your body that generate sweat and target them with baby wipes. Shower when you get home from work.

Been doing it for years on 20-40km commutes. Like the other poster said most places don't have shower facilities for cycling commuters so you gotta adapt. Once you do it's no problem at all.

bingobars

amdublin wrote: »

Why do you need to ask permission what you do in a toilet cubicle Will you be asking them can you do a number 2 next :pac:

Just go in to the cubicle with baby wipes, get changed and spray some deodorant and bob's your uncle.

I did it for years when I worked somewhere that had no showering facilities.

I guess I'm quite self conscious about hygiene, ill also have to address the drying of my gear which would be part of my query

amdublin

bingobars wrote: »

I guess I'm quite self conscious about hygiene, ill also have to address the drying of my gear which would be part of my query

If it was me I would just put them into a sports bag and straight in to the washing machine when I came home.

I guess you will need to bring in a second set of gear to cycle home in

CramCycle

YakerK wrote: »

I would imagine the vast majority of cyclists do have showers - unless you are having a gentle cycle in over what could be walking distance, not viable to not have a shower!

No they don't, it is a rarity.

DoraDelite

If you can work from home in the first place (assuming with large multinationals you can), then why are they even making you come in to the office? Surely that would be a bigger issue?

Biker79

A lot of companies are not fans, generally speaking, of remote working. The consensus among management is that it has a negative impact on company culture.

They say a good culture has a lot of business value, and many companies struggle with this already, with changing tech, high turnover etc.

Our MD said yesterday things will change in terms of flexibility but he won't be pushing for widespread remote working.

YakerK

CramCycle wrote: »

No they don't, it is a rarity.

Some peoples hygiene standards obviously differ from mine! I've never had a workplace without shower facilities. My line of work has me moving between different companies' offices fairly regularly so I've seen my fair share of offices and I cycle in mostly and never had one that didn't have facilities. In my student days I previously worked on large farms and in retail and they always had also. Anyone I know who cycles or runs to work have shower and changing facilities. The quality varies, but 100% of workplaces I've worked had something, so certainly not a minority of places in my experience.

Not the point of this conversation though, I don't think the OPs request is in anyway unreasonable, and notwithstanding why they need to go in, I'd say it's a basic request and requirement for a workplace and with some accommodation on side of both the employer and employee (such as putting in place a queuing system and abiding by that), I can't see how this is a problem for any reasonable employer to facilitate.

Del2005

plodder wrote: »

Where I work, there is only room for two people at a time in the locker/shower room. So, if this happens to us, it wouldn't be that hard to use a simple one-at-a time system. If the area is much bigger, then work out how many can use it safely at the same time. You could put a sheet of paper on the door with a pen, and get everyone to sign in and sign out. Sooner or later employers with these facilities will have to make compromises like this imo.

How do you propose that they sanitize the changing room between people? Its not just social distancing that a company has to implement its also enhanced cleaning of communal spaces and that will be difficult in most companies with showers.

CramCycle

YakerK wrote: »

Some peoples hygiene standards obviously differ from mine! I've never had a workplace without shower facilities. My line of work has me moving between different companies' offices fairly regularly so I've seen my fair share of offices and I cycle in mostly and never had one that didn't have facilities. In my student days I previously worked on large farms and in retail and they always had also. Anyone I know who cycles or runs to work have shower and changing facilities. The quality varies, but 100% of workplaces I've worked had something, so certainly not a minority of places in my experience.

Not the point of this conversation though, I don't think the OPs request is in anyway unreasonable, and notwithstanding why they need to go in, I'd say it's a basic request and requirement for a workplace and with some accommodation on side of both the employer and employee (such as putting in place a queuing system and abiding by that), I can't see how this is a problem for any reasonable employer to facilitate.

I agree with you but my experience has been the opposite, some have had places nearby, gyms etc but only my current employer has had showers available on site. This varies from job type to job type, and company to company but based on friends and postings here, it is more likely that you won't have one for any random job in ireland. This is definetly changing but at the minute I would bet it is more likely not to in Ireland. Just an opinion though.

YakerK

Del2005 wrote: »

How do you propose that they sanitize the changing room between people? Its not just social distancing that a company has to implement its also enhanced cleaning of communal spaces and that will be difficult in most companies with showers.

Should be no more difficult than the toilet. Do you propose that shared bathroom facilities should not be available too as they can't be sanitised between each use? If that level of cleaning is required workplaces are not going to open full stop. If safe for workplaces to reopen, I don't see why changing rooms and showers should have additional rules applied to them.

cletus

YakerK wrote: »

Some peoples hygiene standards obviously differ from mine! I've never had a workplace without shower facilities. My line of work has me moving between different companies' offices fairly regularly so I've seen my fair share of offices and I cycle in mostly and never had one that didn't have facilities. In my student days I previously worked on large farms and in retail and they always had also. Anyone I know who cycles or runs to work have shower and changing facilities. The quality varies, but 100% of workplaces I've worked had something, so certainly not a minority of places in my experience.

Not the point of this conversation though, I don't think the OPs request is in anyway unreasonable, and notwithstanding why they need to go in, I'd say it's a basic request and requirement for a workplace and with some accommodation on side of both the employer and employee (such as putting in place a queuing system and abiding by that), I can't see how this is a problem for any reasonable employer to facilitate.

You've been very lucky with your workplaces so.

Having worked in a variety of positions in a variety of industries, only two places have had showers, one of those is where I work now, and it has one shower cubicle for almost 100 members of staff.

The other was when I worked as a fitness instructor, so by default there were showers and changing rooms, bit that was a function of the business, rather than something supplied by the company for employees.

Hurrache

The only places I've worked in without showers were retail. All offices I've been in have had them. Not all initially but at least one installed one after requests by staff. In that place the cleaners started using the shower cubicle itself to store their boxes of toilet rolls, paper towels cleaning fluids etc and no matter how many times they returned in the evening to find them tossed out over the floor in the changing area they still never got the message not to do it.

plodder

Del2005 wrote: »

How do you propose that they sanitize the changing room between people? Its not just social distancing that a company has to implement its also enhanced cleaning of communal spaces and that will be difficult in most companies with showers.

Fair question, but what will companies do about toilet bowls for instance? There isn't likely to be any guarantee of enhanced cleaning there. Whatever cleaning is required could just be a quick spray of some cleaning agent and a wipedown by users themselves before or after use. I don't see why same can't be done in changing rooms.

The alternative for some people is going to be public transport, which could be even riskier.

Though I suspect the places with the best facilities are often the places best setup for work at home. I don't expect to be going back to the office for many months, so it's probably moot in my case.

magicbastarder

plodder wrote: »

Fair question, but what will companies do about toilet bowls for instance?

i suspect toilet bowls are not the problem. i'm not worried about catching something off a toilet bowl if it's not cleaned after someone else has used and flushed it; from what little i understand of this pox is that it'd be shared surfaces (door handles, loo handles, etc.) that everyone has to manhandle, which would be of greater concern.
i don't know if any research has been done into whether this thing is excreted in sweat. that'd be an interesting thing to learn.

Mercian Pro

From Professor Cormican, the HSE Lead on Infection Control:
Can the virus be transmitted through sweat?
We do not see sweat as important in terms of virus spread, to any significant degree. This virus is spread through touch and secretions from your eyes, nose and mouth. The biggest risk in a gym is probably through contact and touching surfaces.

blackbox

When I was younger I used to cycle to work in my work clothes.

I cycled at a pace that didn't get me into a lather of sweat.

There was no need for changing rooms.

If you want to use your bike for sweaty exercise rather than as a means of transport, do it after work.

backofthepack

Most people in my office that cycle wouldn't use the shower.
They'd have a full change of clothes and baby wipes etc.

Now in saying that i would still check with management if I were you. If there were only a handful of people requiring access then surely something could be arranged, after all the best way to combat the virus is soap and water.
I imagine you'd pose more of a risk using public transport.

magicbastarder

backofthepack wrote: »

Most people in my office that cycle wouldn't use the shower.
They'd have a full change of clothes and baby wipes etc.

is there a shower available?
choosing to use baby wipes and doing a full change of clothes, when there is a shower available, would be weird.

AndrewJRenko

blackbox wrote: »

If you want to use your bike for sweaty exercise rather than as a means of transport, do it after work.

Why?

Why wouldn't a decent employer provide showers to facilitate staff who what to do something useful with their commute time, instead of working up to their next heart attack? These facilities can be used by cyclists, by those who run for their commute, those who go for a run at lunchtime, those who want to shower before they head out on the tear straight from work. It's a fairly basic level of facility, and would incur much lower costs than the facilities and space usually dedicated to parking. That's a win-win.

ED E

blackbox wrote: »

I cycled at a pace that didn't get me into a lather of sweat.

This.


Commute at commute pace, coffee with the club at club pace. If you don't use your commute as training you can get away grand without showers.

magicbastarder

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

cL0h

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why wouldn't a decent employer provide showers to facilitate staff who what to do something useful with their commute time.

His employer has done that already. This is a temporary situation. OP has indicated he arrives to work in sweaty cycling specific clothing. He wants to continue to use facilities shared with other sweaty individuals to shower and change. This isn't about the rights of cyclists. It's about the employer making the best decision (in line with government advice) to reduce the spread of COVID-19.
There's plenty of people cohabiting with elderly and immuno-compromised who are dreading arriving back to work at all. I would urge OP to consider the common good and temporarily stop arriving to work in that manner with expectations of being facilitated. This isn't going to last forever. Suck it up.

ED E

I'm at 18-21kph for the whole journey including stops at lights, Fit doesnt autopause like Strava.

AndrewJRenko

cL0h wrote: »

His employer has done that already. This is a temporary situation. OP has indicated he arrives to work in sweaty cycling specific clothing. He wants to continue to use facilities shared with other sweaty individuals to shower and change. This isn't about the rights of cyclists. It's about the employer making the best decision (in line with government advice) to reduce the spread of COVID-19.
There's plenty of people cohabiting with elderly and immuno-compromised who are dreading arriving back to work at all. I would urge OP to consider the common good and temporarily stop arriving to work in that manner with expectations of being facilitated. This isn't going to last forever. Suck it up.

There is no Government advice to close shower rooms. How does closing the shower room reduce spread? If he now spends 10 minutes at the bathroom sink with baby wipes, is that better or worse for reducing spread? If he spends five minutes in a toilet cubicle, brushing off the sides of the cubicle and the toilet seat, is that better or worse for reducing spread?

What's happened here is that someone who doesn't cycle or run or use the shower room made a quick and easy decision without thinking it through.

Staying fit and healthy is an important factor in ensuring the population at large can fight off infection when it does hit. The ability to build exercise into your daily commute is an important factor in staying fit and healthy. Suck that up.

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast 😉

P_1

magicbastarder wrote: »

what sort of pace can people maintain without breaking a sweat?

Panier rack and keep it around 20kph, no sweat and you'll still get in there quicker than you would driving. If we want to get a proper cycling culture we should look to what the Danes and Dutch do.

Essentially a road bike is like a sportscar, most societies don't cater for sportscars. There's more to life than going fast 😉

B.A._Baracus

iwillhtfu wrote: »

What the vast majority of cyclists that commute by bike and don't have showers/locker rooms do. Suck it up and use a sink if you must

I don't think OP is to concerned about the merits of cycling to work I just think it's inconvenient for him.

Well said.
Topped off brilliantly by the ever true inconvenient.

Op, there's thousands out of work right now. They'd gladly take your job and your salary. They wouldn't care about having some shower room and they'd laugh at you.

Realise this is nothing.

EC1000

bingobars wrote: »

ill also have to address the drying of my gear which would be part of my query

Ah here! Whatever about using facilities and wiping surfaces after you use them, you cannot expect your employer to solve the issue of you drying your sweaty gear.

In previous work places where I used communal showers, the stench of other people's gear drying in the changing rooms was always a major turn off.

If you are going to use communal areas, there should be a "leave no trace" policy when you are finished.

TheBoyConor

What people seem oblivious to is that years ago, I'm talking 40/50/60 years ago vast throngs of people cycled and walked to work. Very very few of them had showers or any sort of fancy facility of any kind. But they just got on with it without complaining. It wasn't looked upon as the trendy way of eco-hipsters or athletes keeping records of their weekly athletic performance statistics - it was just what had to be done if you wanted to be able to eat a dinner that evening.

If you have 20km to go, why does it have to be a sweaty frenzy. It is only a sweaty affair if you make it one. Could you not just leave 15 or 20 minutes earlier and go at a more relaxed pace so you don't be dripping in sweat when you get in? Bear in mind that not having to take a shower would mostly make up for the longer cycle time owing ot going at a slower rate. Wear light clothing also so you avoid sweating and are kept chilled by the air flow.

You should be making a distinction between functional cycling to get work and athletic cycling as exercise.

I cycle to and from work most days. On the way in I take it nice and handy so I am not sweaty. Sometimes when I go home I go faster because I don't mind being sweaty when I get home and I can take a shower at my leisure.

People don't know how handy they have it nowadays, even considering covid. If you were alive in the 1950s you'd know all about it with TB rampant around the country. I suggest you check yourself.

CramCycle

Just to throw a spanner in the works, some of us sweat profusely doing SFA, it is just the way some of us operate.