Entitlement to deposit back

Teach30

Hi looking for some advice on the following, I booked a wedding band and paid deposit. Now due to restrictions wedding cannot go ahead. We have chosen a new date but band unavailable.

Am I entitled to deposit back seeing as it is because of restrictions they can’t play? Band don’t know about our new date, we just asked them to forward on when they are free and I checked.

We haven’t cancelled our original date yet, but it won’t be doing ahead. Just wondering what the best way to try if any to get back a rather large deposit.

Thanks.

Teach30

Teach30 wrote: »

Hi looking for some advice on the following, I booked a wedding band and paid deposit. Now due to restrictions wedding cannot go ahead. We have chosen a new date but band unavailable.

Am I entitled to deposit back seeing as it is because of restrictions they can’t play? Band don’t know about our new date, we just asked them to forward on when they are free and I checked.

We haven’t cancelled our original date yet, but it won’t be doing ahead. Just wondering what the best way to try if any to get back a rather large deposit.

Thanks.

When is the wedding?

Caranica

What does your contract with them say?

Teach30

Caranica wrote: »

What does your contract with them say?

No contract just paid €500 by online banking.

It’s not end of world if I don’t get it back just want to see if I would be entitled to something. I know there’s something about if we cancel then it’s our fault but technically we are not. We all know it can’t happen but they haven’t mentioned deposit to us.

Teach30

Teach30 wrote: »

No contract just paid €500 by online banking.

It’s not end of world if I don’t get it back just want to see if I would be entitled to something. I know there’s something about if we cancel then it’s our fault but technically we are not. We all know it can’t happen but they haven’t mentioned deposit to us.

When is the wedding date?

daheff

Not your fault and not their fault the wedding isn't going ahead.

A fair result here could be that you split the deposit

Teach30

Dav010 wrote: »

When is the wedding date?

June - hotels won’t be open by then

Juwwi

I would think you should be entitled to your deposit back .

FFVII

daheff wrote: »

Not your fault and not their fault the wedding isn't going ahead.

A fair result here could be that you split the deposit

No....no it's not.

Teach30

Juwwi wrote: »

I would think you should be entitled to your deposit back .

Same here but..
Seeing as they have offered to reschedule they’ll probably want to keep deposit.
It’s our fault they are not available on our other date. We can’t change plan B date.

So technically we are not cancelling them but they don’t suit our new date.

Hotels are giving deposits back if they don’t have a suitable date.
Unfair that the bands is slow to offer.
To.

Juwwi

In fairness to the band though they don't know that your new date won't be suitable for them ,they are probably presuming they'll just be playing on the new date .

I think you should just inform them of your new date and then let them come back and say sorry we are not available that date .

Then ask about the deposit .

B.A._Baracus

Caranica wrote: »

What does your contract with them say?

Fecking hell :pac:
Think I've heard it all now... A contract with a wedding band? :pac: haha.

But op let the band know the exact date.

Caranica

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Fecking hell :pac:
Think I've heard it all now... A contract with a wedding band? :pac: haha.

But op let the band know the exact date.

I had simple contacts with all my wedding suppliers. I worked in event management at the time and knew how important they are for both parties.

B.A._Baracus

Caranica wrote: »

I had simple contacts with all my wedding suppliers. I worked in event management at the time and knew how important they are for both parties.

... And I'm Elvis Presley.

Teach30

Juwwi wrote: »

In fairness to the band though they don't know that your new date won't be suitable for them ,they are probably presuming they'll just be playing on the new date .

I think you should just inform them of your new date and then let them come back and say sorry we are not available that date .

Then ask about the deposit .

I’ve a feeling they won’t hence my asking here. I’m on a wedding Facebook group and others have asked the same question with our band Replying and saying that if the couple postpone the wedding and the band are not available then it’s not the bands fault so you are not entitled to deposit back.

I was just hopeful that I would have a consumer advice line to spin them in the hope of recouping even some of the money.

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

... And I'm Elvis Presley.

Elvis, why wouldn’t a band have a contract/booking form like any service? They would be foolish not to.

anewme

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Fecking hell :pac:
Think I've heard it all now... A contract with a wedding band? :pac: haha.

/quote]

Would have thought this would be pretty standard?

anewme

Dav010 wrote: »

Elvis, why wouldn’t a band have a contract/booking form like any service? They would be foolish not to.

Bizarre thinking that there would not be a contract in this day and age. Would form part of the stipulations of goi g for wedding insurance I would think too

Plumbthedepths

daheff wrote: »

Not your fault and not their fault the wedding isn't going ahead.

A fair result here could be that you split the deposit

Why ?what costs would the band have incurred that keeping 50% of the deposit is justified?

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why ?what costs would the band have incurred that keeping 50% of the deposit is justified?

If they dig their heals in, the question is whether they are required to return it.

Plumbthedepths

Dav010 wrote: »

If they dig their heals in, the question is whether they are required to return it.

I would assume the band can demonstrate a non refund policy.
There are many FB groups devoted to wedding planning and help in organising same. Not great publicity for a band if they behave less than professional with customers or potential customers. Just my opinion.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I would assume the band can demonstrate a non refund policy. .

I could be wrong, but isn’t default that there is no obligation to refund a deposit if the consumer cancels? They may not have to demonstrate their refund policy if they allow a change of date.

AndrewJRenko

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Why ?what costs would the band have incurred that keeping 50% of the deposit is justified?

That's really a question to be asking before you pay a deposit, not after. If you pay a deposit, don't be surprised that it is used as a deposit.

B.A._Baracus

Dav010 wrote: »

Elvis, why wouldn’t a band have a contract/booking form like any service? They would be foolish not to.

Because for most it's a nixer.
I work with someone who does wedding gigs on the side. Do you think he is paying tax? He isn't his bollocks

I also worked with another lad a couple of years ago who also did it. Had videos on YouTube of him singing at weddings. Even a website. All a nixer. No tax.

So do you think people who are on nixers are gonna create 'contracts' ?


You said the word 'foolish' - that's ironic.

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Because for most it's a nixer.
I work with someone who does wedding gigs on the side. Do you think he is paying tax? He isn't his bollocks

I also worked with another lad a couple of years ago who also did it. Had videos on YouTube of him singing at weddings. Even a website. All a nixer. No tax.

So do you think people who are on nixers are gonna create 'contracts' ?


You said the word 'foolish' - that's ironic.

You work with fraudsters, maybe you need to find a new job.

Are you privy to the op’s band’s tax returns? If you aren’t, then what is the point of speculating?

B.A._Baracus

Dav010 wrote: »

You work with fraudsters, maybe you need to find a new job.

Are you privy to the op’s band’s tax returns? If you aren’t, then what is the point of speculating?

Fraudsters? :pac:
Wake up man. Stop being naive.

paddy19

I'd be inclined to say we'd like to work this out, but €500 is a hunk of change and we would hate to bring to the small claims court to come to any agreement.

The Small Claims Court is made for this type of problem. Usually the threat of it is enough to get most reasonable people to be reasonable.

It's all online, it costs €25. No legal eagle required.
The reistraar tries to get both parties to agree.

Courts like documents. It makes their life easier.

They tend to think the onus is on the professional in the case to make sure the Terms and Conditions are clear.

If there is no written contract then the courts tend to take the view that the supplier who is the professional in this case didn't bother his arse.
It doesn't help their chance of winning.

5 Step guide here (for airline refunds but you can see the process.)

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058071799

Darc19

These cases are difficult and there's no fault on either side.

Ideally the bride and groom should have insurance.

Band probably has already done work on Playlist. Band did not cancel. But neither did the bride and groom.

I wouldn't be confident of a scc declaration for either side.


Ideal situation is a date move that the band can make and move the deposit to that date

anewme

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Because for most it's a nixer.
I work with someone who does wedding gigs on the side. Do you think he is paying tax? He isn't his bollocks

I also worked with another lad a couple of years ago who also did it. Had videos on YouTube of him singing at weddings. Even a website. All a nixer. No tax.

So do you think people who are on nixers are gonna create 'contracts' ?


You said the word 'foolish' - that's ironic.

You are clearly living in the VERY DISTANT past.

Professional Wedding Bands are an industry in themselves....the "nixer" days are long gone.

Wedding Bands do Weddings and Corporate Events. it is serious money.

Boys from the Blackstuf type Economy was filmed in the 1980's.

Teach30

Darc19 wrote: »

These cases are difficult and there's no fault on either side.

Ideally the bride and groom should have insurance.

Band probably has already done work on Playlist. Band did not cancel. But neither did the bride and groom.

I wouldn't be confident of a scc declaration for either side.


Ideal situation is a date move that the band can make and move the deposit to that date

We didn’t even know wedding insurance was a thing before all this!

They’d no work done on a playlist for us we had no contact with them other than to book the date.

Can’t move to a date that suits them as they are not available for any weekend dates next year that match with hotel.

Total pain of a situation to be honest I’d leave it off before I’d bother with the hassle of the small claims court.

Really the problem is that we when I ring them to tell them we have had to change date to next year and they can’t accommodate us, so it’s our fault not theirs.
Hence I don’t think they’ll rush to tell me oh yea no bother here’s your deposit back.

L1011

Until you actually get refused a refund there isn't actually a consumer issue.

the_syco

Teach30 wrote: »

Now due to restrictions wedding cannot go ahead. We have chosen a new date but band unavailable.

Can they play on the original date? If not, don't see why they can't give you the deposit back.

Teach30 wrote: »

Really the problem is that we when I ring them to tell them we have had to change date to next year and they can’t accommodate us, so it’s our fault not theirs.

See above. it's their fault that they can't accommodate you for your original date. You gave them another date, but you say that they're busy then as well?

B.A._Baracus

anewme wrote: »

You are clearly living in the VERY DISTANT past.

Professional Wedding Bands are an industry in themselves....the "nixer" days are long gone.

Wedding Bands do Weddings and Corporate Events. it is serious money.

Boys from the Blackstuf type Economy was filmed in the 1980's.

You couldn't be more wrong.

L1011

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong.

Take your concerns to Revenue. Stop talking about them here until you have

Cabaal

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Fecking hell :pac:
Think I've heard it all now... A contract with a wedding band? :pac: haha.

But op let the band know the exact date.

Band we had at our wedding had a contract, maybe its just Mickey mouse outfits that don't do a contract. After all it exists to protect both partys.

OnYerPike

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

... And I'm Elvis Presley.

Don't suppose you'd be free to cover the new date, Elvis? You're probably just lying around doing nothing anyway?

Can't see the band 'coffin' up the deposit too easily though so I'd be off to the SCC as advised.

Darc19

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Because for most it's a nixer.
I work with someone who does wedding gigs on the side. Do you think he is paying tax? He isn't his bollocks

I also worked with another lad a couple of years ago who also did it. Had videos on YouTube of him singing at weddings. Even a website. All a nixer. No tax.

So do you think people who are on nixers are gonna create 'contracts' ?


You said the word 'foolish' - that's ironic.

Foolish is the right word...

... To describe your post.

Nonsensical, stupid and ridiculous are other words.

Weddings are an industry. Many Wedding bands are full time at that.

"nicer" No Chance. Especially as you may have read that money was paid into the band's bank account. Bona fide accountable transaction.



As for OP, band has not said they are not refunding. You need to approach this right as there's no fault on either side.

Pleasant and understanding their situation. But emphasize that you have lost sooo much at this stage, that it's causing financial headache.

Ask if they could recommend another band - possibly transfer the deposit to them?

The right attitude will get the most positive response

TomTree

Teach30 wrote: »

Same here but..

Hotels are giving deposits back if they don’t have a suitable date.
Unfair that the bands is slow to offer.
To.

Hi have you heard of many hotels giving back the deposit?

Teach30

Right sent them an email yday explaining the situation and our new date.

email back from then saying it’s unfortunate they can’t play our new date.

no mention of deposit...

They’re a big band on the pub/wedding scene obviously v popular they are booked out for weekends next year.

They said if we change our minds about next years date to let them know..

anewme

Teach30 wrote: »

Right sent them an email yday explaining the situation and our new date.

email back from then saying it’s unfortunate they can’t play our new date.

no mention of deposit...

They’re a big band on the pub/wedding scene obviously v popular they are booked out for weekends next year.

They said if we change our minds about next years date to let them know..

Sorry to hear that. You can respond now and ask them where it stands with the deposit. You could also ask if they could recommend another wedding band for your date?

Agree with the other poster to be nice and polite about it.

AndrewJRenko

Teach30 wrote: »

Right sent them an email yday explaining the situation and our new date.

email back from then saying it’s unfortunate they can’t play our new date.

no mention of deposit...

They’re a big band on the pub/wedding scene obviously v popular they are booked out for weekends next year.

They said if we change our minds about next years date to let them know..

Now get a buddy to contact them from a different name/email address and ask them about the same new date, just to double-check that there is nothing dodgy going on.

Teach30

anewme wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. You can respond now and ask them where it stands with the deposit. You could also ask if they could recommend another wedding band for your date?

Agree with the other poster to be nice and polite about it.

Yea we have another band got they sent a list to us but none of them available either. We’ve picked a busy date.

Definitely agree with being polite.

Thanks everyone for advice

Cupatae

Teach30 wrote: »

Hi looking for some advice on the following, I booked a wedding band and paid deposit. Now due to restrictions wedding cannot go ahead. We have chosen a new date but band unavailable.

Am I entitled to deposit back seeing as it is because of restrictions they can’t play? Band don’t know about our new date, we just asked them to forward on when they are free and I checked.

We haven’t cancelled our original date yet, but it won’t be doing ahead. Just wondering what the best way to try if any to get back a rather large deposit.

Thanks.

100% entitled to your deposit back, shot situation for all involved but u did nothing wrong and tried to rebook

anewme

Teach30 wrote: »

Yea we have another band got they sent a list to us but none of them available either. We’ve picked a busy date.

Definitely agree with being polite.

Thanks everyone for advice

That is a valid point about checking the date via someone else. I mean what is to stop people keeping deposits but keeping the date free for a new enquiry.

I know most people would not do that, but I would check to be sure.

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

100% entitled to your deposit back, shot situation for all involved but u did nothing wrong and tried to rebook

There is no entitlement to any refund of a deposit. How do you make out that a refund is 100% due?

From ccpc website:

If I change my mind about buying the item or service, can I get my deposit back?

The obligations of the contract work both ways so the business doesn’t have to return your deposit if you change your mind. For example, if you paid a deposit to a shop to hold an item for you and you later decide you don’t want the item, the shop may not be obliged to refund you your deposit. If you signed a contract, there should be details in the terms and conditions about paying a deposit and whether a refund is possible

The op may be entitled to a refund because the band could not perform through no fault of there own, but they are offering other dates. It certainly isn’t a 100% situation.

The point of a deposit is that the service provider is protecting themselves against sunk cost and lost opportunity, in case the client cancels, obviously.

Here, neither party were in a position to fulfil their obligations to each other, due to circumstances outside their control. In law, the contract has been frustrated.

In the absence of an agreement to the contrary (one which assigns risk to one or other or both parties on a joint basis) the deposit should be returned.

NB not legal advice.
,

tscul32

Strictly speaking they were hired to play music in a certain room in a certain hotel at a certain date/time. Whether you are there or not should be irrelevant. So it's them that cannot fulfill the deal - albeit because of the virus. So they should offer alternatives, but if that doesn't suit, it would be my opinion that they should refund the deposit.
If you paid a deposit on a sofa and then the shop came back to you saying they couldn't get it, they would usually offer an alternative or refund the deposit if the alternative was not suitable.

tscul32

tscul32 wrote: »

Strictly speaking they were hired to play music in a certain room in a certain hotel at a certain date/time. Whether you are there or not should be irrelevant. So it's them that cannot fulfill the deal - albeit because of the virus. So they should offer alternatives, but if that doesn't suit, it would be my opinion that they should refund the deposit.
If you paid a deposit on a sofa and then the shop came back to you saying they couldn't get it, they would usually offer an alternative or refund the deposit if the alternative was not suitable.

That would be a different situation where the fault lies with the shop for not having the stock they were advertising.

Cupatae

Dav010 wrote: »

There is no entitlement to any refund of a deposit. How do you make out that a refund is 100% due?

From ccpc website:

If I change my mind about buying the item or service, can I get my deposit back?

The obligations of the contract work both ways so the business doesn’t have to return your deposit if you change your mind. For example, if you paid a deposit to a shop to hold an item for you and you later decide you don’t want the item, the shop may not be obliged to refund you your deposit. If you signed a contract, there should be details in the terms and conditions about paying a deposit and whether a refund is possible

The op may be entitled to a refund because the band could not perform through no fault of there own, but they are offering other dates. It certainly isn’t a 100% situation.

I don't care about that nonsense we aren't in a court room, the decent and right thing to do, is to refund the money... The OP should 100% let it be well know this is how the band treats it's customers if the refund isn't given and most people would think twice before hiring them as it's simply bad form to not refund.

Give the situation and circumstances it d be a very poor move by the band to not give a refund and would likely cost them other gigs down the line I know I certainly look at reviews before booking and if it's a level headed negative reviews I'd certainly think twice before hiring

Cupatae

Cupatae wrote: »

I don't care about that nonsense we aren't in a court room

Then it is better to avoid using the phrase “100% entitled”.

I agree with you that morally the band should not hold on to the deposit.

Darc19

Don't forget that the band are suffering too. Every gig they have from March to September is canceled. Zero income.

There's simply no right or wrong in this situation by either party. There's no precedence either.

Maybe one of the original posts is the best outcome and suggest half deposit back? But I'd first ask if the deposit can be returned. - looks like the op hasn't actually asked them yet. If you don't ask, you won't receive.