CoVid not enough for you, try Kawasaki Disease

Spook_ie

So it seems there has been a rise in cases of atypical Kawasaki Disease symptoms among children in London, no definitive link to CoVid but was mentioned at the Downing St. breifing.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-gps-sent-urgent-alert-about-increase-in-children-with-serious-covid-19-symptoms-11979584

GPs have been sent an "urgent alert" about an increasing number of children becoming severely ill with coronavirus-like symptoms.

The society, on behalf of NHS England, warned doctors that there has been a "small rise" in children presenting with toxic shock syndrome (TSS) or atypical Kawasaki Disease symptoms, including abdominal pain, gastrointestinal symptoms and cardiac inflammation.

The cases they have seen have also had "blood parameters consistent with severe COVID-19".

Podge201

Well done the Chinese.

Jin luk

Spook_ie wrote: »

So it seems there has been a rise in cases of atypical Kawasaki Disease symptoms among children in London, no definitive link to CoVid but was mentioned at the Downing St. breifing.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-gps-sent-urgent-alert-about-increase-in-children-with-serious-covid-19-symptoms-11979584

I read a small bit about this last night, it was also linked to another coronavirus 16 years ago or something.

Spook_ie

Now picked up by Breakingnews.ie this morning


https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/paediatricians-alerted-about-very-inflammatory-syndrome-in-some-children-with-covid-19-996451.html

Spook_ie

Latest from Sky News
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-hancock-worried-over-new-disease-in-children-linked-to-covid-19-11979869

Coronavirus: Matt Hancock 'worried' over new disease in children linked to COVID-19
Medical experts are investigating a link between coronavirus and clusters of severe inflammatory disease among infants.

As if we didn't have enough to worry about cocooning the elderly, it's possibly heading to cocoon infants as well

tom1ie

So we’ve cases in northern Italy and cases in the uk.
Is there anywhere else?
Is it a delayed effect I wonder that we’ll likely see in other countries including here.
There doesn’t seem to be a lot know about it.

From wiki:
The cause is unknown.[1] It may be due to an infection triggering an autoimmune response in those who are genetically predisposed.[1] It does not spread between people.

Airyfairy12

America reporting higher numbers of healthy young people having strokes and blood cloths associated with Covid, could be the case theyre spotting other symptoms now in people they previously thought were less effected by the virus. Its a new illness and theyre only beginning to study it, we dont really know or understand what it is yet or the long term consequences it will have on people. Makes it so much more aggravating seeing people not sticking to social distancing.

ACitizenErased

The CMO said at the briefing this evening that an Early Warning Alert had been sent out by the WHO today to all countries about this.

The chan chan man

I had a feeling there would be long term effects for children affected by Covid! How can they even consider opening up schools now?!

Maxpower15

This is absolutely frightening.

GreeBo

The chan chan man wrote: »

I had a feeling there would be long term effects for children affected by Covid! How can they even consider opening up schools now?!

Pity you didn't tell anyone about your feeling...:rolleyes:

khalessi

I posted this other day and got chewed out of it for scare mongering and not supplying decent sources. All I was trying to do was keep people informed. It is worth thinking about in relation to schools reopening. Kawasaki is rare enough but this is being highlighted. THis virus is mental, a few weeks ago we didnt know about pink eyes, unsually low oxygen levels while patients chatting to doctors, vomitting diarrohea, loss of taste and smeell, ventilator issue, all now associated with Covid19. It keeps springing up new symptoms, it is mental. Hopefully will prove to be coincidental.

I'd say for medical researchers it is a fascinating confounding little virus

trapp

The chan chan man wrote: »

I had a feeling there would be long term effects for children affected by Covid! How can they even consider opening up schools now?!

Ah give over will you.

This virus is bad enough without ridiculous nonsense like this.

These reports are not long term effects, kawasaki disease is a response to infections and virus.

It is very rare and occurs in infants under 5 years old mostly.

Yes, the reports are concerning but posts like yours are unreasonable hyperbolic nonsense.

trapp

khalessi wrote: »

I posted this other day and got chewed out of it for scare mongering and not supplying decent sources. All I was trying to do was keep people informed. It is worth thinking about in relation to schools reopening. Kawasaki is rare enough but this is being highlighted. THis virus is mental, a few weeks ago we didnt know about pink eyes, unsually low oxygen levels while patients chatting to doctors, vomitting diarrohea, loss of taste and smeell, ventilator issue, all now associated with Covid19. It keeps springing up new symptoms, it is mental. Hopefully will prove to be coincidental.

I'd say for medical researchers it is a fascinating confounding little virus

Exactly.

I still would accuse you of scare mongering however.

Yes these reports are concerning but we are talking about extremely rare cases.

The evidence, as shown by the median and mean death rates, the nursing home situations etc, overwhelmingly prove that this awful virus affects the older population far more than younger people and children even less than that.

Let us be grateful for that small mercy and not rush to over dramatise rare cases.

And facts are important too.

Children implies any age up to 18 but these reports of kawasaki disease are of cases in infants and toddlers.

The chan chan man

trapp wrote: »

Ah give over will you.

This virus is bad enough without ridiculous nonsense like this.

These reports are not long term effects, kawasaki disease is a response to infections and virus.

It is very rare and occurs in infants under 5 years old mostly.

Yes, the reports are concerning but posts like yours are unreasonable hyperbolic nonsense.

No one knows the long term effects. I fail to believe that kids get away scot free however!

Kermit.de.frog

There is all sorts of complications arising from C-19 from heart problems to strokes to muscle aches being documented.

There is a reason governments are taking these actions around the world. Nothing like this is done lightly.

As the experts say we simply don't know enough about the full scope of what we are dealing with yet and it's full effects on populations.

khalessi

trapp wrote: »

Exactly.

I still would accuse you of scare mongering however.

Fair enough but I did make the point it is a rare disease. A peer reviewed paper will be published at then end of April and is available to read on internet is based on an infant. A child presented in America but they didnt test him for Covid19, even though he had symptoms.

As a nurse of 20+ years I feel it is important to highlight and inform and like I have said elsewhere I hope they are wrong

But is this whole thread scaremongering or should we be allowed to discuss it?

The chan chan man

GreeBo wrote: »

Pity you didn't tell anyone about your feeling...:rolleyes:

What?

trapp

The chan chan man wrote: »

No one knows the long term effects. I fail to believe that kids get away scot free however!

For some reason your attitude towards the effects on children is extremely annoying and to be honest one of the most distasteful things I have even seen on this forum.

Why the exclamation marks?

Let us hope against hope that you are wrong and children do get away 'scot free' as you say.

Thankfully the evidence so far suggests they do.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-65s-account-for-90-of-coronavirus-deaths-recorded-in-ireland-1.4227833

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/

According to the first set of data 90% of deaths in Ireland are over 65 years old.

According to the second set of data only 2 out of 24,780 deaths in Italy were aged under 18.

Fingers crossed this remains the trend.

owlbethere

I think we really didn't get a very clear picture of this disease from China. We were told this doesn't effect children. Or children seem to escape this. But China were down this road before with SARS. They knew what to do when they found this new virus. They locked down. They isolated infections. We never dealt with this before in Europe. We were slow to even implement restrictions. Europe went down a different road than China. Lockdowns weren't as severe. Suspected infected people, to isolate themselves at home unless severe. There weren't isolation centres for infected people to go to. The virus was allowed to spread more here in Europe. It gets more of a foothold in households. We did not get a clear picture from China because they dealt with this differently.

trapp

khalessi wrote: »

Fair enough but I did make the point it is a rare disease. A peer reviewed paper will be published at then end of April and is available to read on internet is based on an infant. A child presented in America but they didnt test him for Covid19, even though he had symptoms.

As a nurse of 20+ years I feel it is important to highlight and inform and like I have said elsewhere I hope they are wrong

But is this whole thread scaremongering or should we be allowed to discuss it?

Fair enough but balance is so important.

There is so much fear out there at the moment and suggestions children are at risk can not be made flippantly.

The facts remain that this virus, awful as it is, affects our older population.

2 children dead out of 24,000 in Italy

no children dead out of over 1000 deaths in Ireland.

Thank god for this and hopefully it remain the same.

owlbethere

Boris Johnsons initial herd immunity approach is now more enraging. You don't play around with a new virus.

tom1ie

trapp wrote: »

Ah give over will you.

This virus is bad enough without ridiculous nonsense like this.

These reports are not long term effects, kawasaki disease is a response to infections and virus.

It is very rare and occurs in infants under 5 years old mostly.

Yes, the reports are concerning but posts like yours are unreasonable hyperbolic nonsense.

Hmmmm sounds like the posts in thread 1 of corona virus, way back in January.

trapp

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

There is all sorts of complications arising from C-19 from heart problems to strokes to muscle aches being documented.

There is a reason governments are taking these actions around the world. Nothing like this is done lightly.

As the experts say we simply don't know enough about the full scope of what we are dealing with yet and it's full effects on populations.

I agree with much of that but we do seem to know from the facts and the evidence that, thankfully, children do not seem badly impacted.

2 children died from 24000 deaths in Italy

0 children have died with over 1000 deaths in Ireland

Let's hope it remains that way.

trapp

tom1ie wrote: »

Hmmmm sounds like the posts in thread 1 of corona virus, way back in January.

Italy 24000 deaths 2 children die

Ireland 1000 deaths 0 children die

I have to strongly refrain from using foul language in my response

If there is one thing to be thankful for it is that children are not badly affected.

quite simply cop on for yourself.

Spook_ie

Spook_ie wrote: »

Latest from Sky News
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-hancock-worried-over-new-disease-in-children-linked-to-covid-19-11979869



As if we didn't have enough to worry about cocooning the elderly, it's possibly heading to cocoon infants as well

What sort or Muppet do you have to be to not have been coccooning your kids already?

Lyle

trapp wrote: »

Fair enough but balance is so important.

There is so much fear out there at the moment and suggestions children are at risk can not be made flippantly.

The facts remain that this virus, awful as it is, affects our older population.

2 children dead out of 24,000 in Italy

no children dead out of over 1000 deaths in Ireland.

Thank god for this and hopefully it remain the same.

It is worth factoring in as well that the variations of symptoms that are emerging probably coincide with the mutations of the viral strains. Comparison here is difficult.

Consider this from Iceland:
"Researchers identified more than 291 mutations that haven’t been spotted anywhere else, illustrating how often the virus changes as it spreads."

From:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/iceland-is-the-perfect-country-for-studying-covid-19

The mutations of this seem to be absolutely rampant. The strain that's causing the Kawasaki disease could be a new variation not evident in prior cases in other countries. The gulf in impact of strains is massive. A Chinese study, for example, showed that the most potent strain had 270 times the viral load of the least potent.

(https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study)

There's massive variation emerging and new strains developing new symptoms in people, and because we're still in the infancy of this disease, we don't know what else could emerge.

All that considered, I do hope the potential for the health impact on children is considered in regards to measures we're taking, but hopefully Kawasaki disease stays rare. There's nothing to bollocks up the psychological wellbeing of the country more than the kids being under threat on top of everything else.

trapp

Lyle wrote: »

It is worth factoring in as well that the variations of symptoms that are emerging probably coincide with the mutations of the viral strains. Comparison here is difficult.

Consider this from Iceland:
"Researchers identified more than 291 mutations that haven’t been spotted anywhere else, illustrating how often the virus changes as it spreads."

From:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/iceland-is-the-perfect-country-for-studying-covid-19

The mutations of this seem to be absolutely rampant. The strain that's causing the Kawasaki disease could be a new variation not evident in prior cases in other countries. The gulf in impact of strains is massive. A Chinese study, for example, showed that the most potent strain had 270 times the viral load of the least potent.

(https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3080771/coronavirus-mutations-affect-deadliness-strains-chinese-study)

There's massive variation emerging and new strains developing new symptoms in people, and because we're still in the infancy of this disease, we don't know what else could emerge.

All that considered, I do hope the potential for the health impact on children is considered in regards to measures we're taking, but hopefully Kawasaki disease stays rare. There's nothing to bollocks up the psychological wellbeing of the country more than the kids being under threat on top of everything else.

Exactly

That's why the media need to report this sensibly.

Of course caution should be taken.

But this could be presented two ways.

1. Factually and responsibly

A rare illness in infants, which is serious but rarely fatal, could be linked to Covid 19. Doctors are keeping a watch but remember only 2 children died from 24,000 deaths in Italy and no children have died from over 1000 deaths in Ireland.

2. Scare mongering

Children now at risk of Covid!!!

Atlantic Dawn

It all looks like some loopers have decided to unleash germ warfare on the planet, it makes the plot around Moonraker look tame.

Realt Dearg Sec

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It all looks like some loopers have decided to unleash germ warfare on the planet, it makes the plot around Moonraker look tame.

Ah, another rational, reasoned response.

The chan chan man

trapp wrote: »

For some reason your attitude towards the effects on children is extremely annoying and to be honest one of the most distasteful things I have even seen on this forum.

Why the exclamation marks?

Let us hope against hope that you are wrong and children do get away 'scot free' as you say.

Thankfully the evidence so far suggests they do.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/over-65s-account-for-90-of-coronavirus-deaths-recorded-in-ireland-1.4227833

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105061/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/

According to the first set of data 90% of deaths in Ireland are over 65 years old.

According to the second set of data only 2 out of 24,780 deaths in Italy were aged under 18.

Fingers crossed this remains the trend.

I have two kids myself so lets keep the fingers crossed. Im saying no one knows the long term effects on kids.. I just don’t believe that Covid-19 has no ill effects on their long term health. Do you?

trapp

The chan chan man wrote: »

I have two kids myself so lets keep the fingers crossed. Im saying no one knows the long term effects on kids.. I just don’t believe that Covid-19 has no ill effects on their long term health. Do you?

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I believe covid 19 has no ill effects on the long term health of the majority of children who get it.

I hope I don't read this back in the future and realise I was wrong.

But at the moment children are rarely presenting with serious illness, rarely dying and mild cases don't seem to have any long term effects.

As of now this awful virus affects is most risky to our older population.

Let us hope that remains the way until the virus has been beaten.

CramCycle

Its a reasonable question given an unreasonable tone. Data from Hong Kong implies there is likely lung tissue damage to young people, data leaking through from the states that some young people are immediately affected but I won't go into why i think they are missing a trick there on what they consider an underlying condition. The issue in this thread is that badly affected seems to only imply death. The truth is that badly affected could mean many more things and that it is too early to tell although I'd be broadly optimistic for those who are young, in good shape with no underlying condtions.

Airyfairy12

The chan chan man wrote: »

I had a feeling there would be long term effects for children affected by Covid! How can they even consider opening up schools now?!

I dont believe that schools will reopen. 3 months missed out of one school year isnt really a big deal especially considering that most schools are engaging with students and parents through online learning and homeschooling. Schools wont reopen until September at least.

CramCycle

Schools reopening before September or October was idiotic flag waving by the government. It's not happening, it was never happening, how anyone thinks different is beyond me.

gozunda

trapp wrote: »

Italy 24000 deaths 2 children die

Ireland 1000 deaths 0 children die

I have to strongly refrain from using foul language in my response

If there is one thing to be thankful for it is that children are not badly affected.

quite simply cop on for yourself.

Not sure why you are taking it on yourself to slap down many comment with ott responses such as the above

The current issue relates to possible complications - not death - potentially linked to covid-19 infection

Notably there is an existing body medical evidence which shows that some young children whilst being asymptomatic for Covid (positive when tested) actually showed lung damage similar to that seen in adult symptomatic cases of the disease.

The Lancet published details of children who were asymptomatic yet were found to have ground-glass lung opacities identified by CT scan (compatible with changes seen in viral pneumonia)

Afaik - the concern is for lung injury in the form of scaring and potentially the development of pulmonary fibrosis

It is possibly to early to know if any such organ damage will be long lasting or even to categorically state that children will not suffer long term damage.

Thst said I do hope that the recent case of Kawasaki disease in children linked to Covid-19 turns out to be otherwise

firemansam4

Deleted User wrote:

What sort or Muppet do you have to be to not have been coccooning your kids already?

For many essential and front line workers it is impossible to cocoon there kids, because there is always a risk they could bring back the disease to the household unknowingly.

ILoveYourVibes

Spook_ie wrote: »

So it seems there has been a rise in cases of atypical Kawasaki Disease symptoms among children in London, no definitive link to CoVid but was mentioned at the Downing St. breifing.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-gps-sent-urgent-alert-about-increase-in-children-with-serious-covid-19-symptoms-11979584

Kawaski disease is treatable. Also people rarely get it more than once. Its not contagious either. Its a reaction to do with the immune system.

It also has a lower fatality rate than even covid does. And as i said its way more treatable. Its been around a while.

ILoveYourVibes

China is walking a thin line isn't it really?

unhappys10

khalessi wrote: »

vomitting diarrohea

I really hope you missed a comma there.

khalessi

unhappys10 wrote: »

I really hope you missed a comma there.

Thank you, I did lol, but it is possible to vomit faeces, for different reasons though

unhappys10

khalessi wrote: »

Thank you, I did lol, but it is possible to vomit faeces, for different reasons though

Now that is terrifying!!

khalessi

unhappys10 wrote: »

Now that is terrifying!!

I know its completely sh*t

We have to be careful not to assign characteristics to this virus that are actually things that happen with a lot of viruses. Post viral Auto-immune conditions occur regularly after a virus. Sometimes one where the patient has not been impacted visibly by the virus itself at all. As well as Kawasaki disease, Rheumatoid arthritis, Lupus and MS are some of the conditions who at least in some instances can be triggered after a virus. These complications are rare but do occur. The large number of people infected in a small period of time by SARS 2-CoV may simply be resulting in a glut of some of these rare complications, rather than the virus itself being responsible

tom1ie

trapp wrote: »

Italy 24000 deaths 2 children die

Ireland 1000 deaths 0 children die

I have to strongly refrain from using foul language in my response

If there is one thing to be thankful for it is that children are not badly affected.

quite simply cop on for yourself.

cool your jets there chief.
You haven't been made honorary mod in here or anything like it, so maybe do as you preach and cop on yourself.

tom1ie

This Kawasaki disease seems to becoming more prevalent. European wide health alert issued.
https://www.thejournal.ie/kawasaki-ireland-cases-5100401-May2020/

khalessi

Now known as Paediatric Multisystem Imflammatory Syndrome

Nermal

Peer-reviewed garbage appearing in the Lancet about this.

Sensationalism and click-bait is leaching from media to academia.

Don't be afraid.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1261279459837018120

CinemaGuy45

GreeBo wrote: »

Pity you didn't tell anyone about your feeling...:rolleyes:

Wibbs

Nermal wrote: »

Peer-reviewed garbage appearing in the Lancet about this.

Sensationalism and click-bait is leaching from media to academia.

Don't be afraid.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1261279459837018120

Funny enough a widely read editorial in the same Lancet a few years back warned and bemoaned the current state of much of medical peer reviewed studies out there.

ek motor

Nermal wrote: »

Peer-reviewed garbage appearing in the Lancet about this.

Sensationalism and click-bait is leaching from media to academia.

Don't be afraid.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1261279459837018120

Don't be afraid, no. But certainly be aware of the potential dangers.