Why are Irish conservatives not represented in the media/politics?

8kczg9v0swrydm

This interests me on a number of levels.

I know the politics of a number of countries quite well and I noticed that in each one of them, both the liberal and conservative (mostly in the social sense) parts of the population have their own media outlets - nationwide TV, newspapers, major websites, even colleges. They also each have political parties which represent their views.

However, this does not seem to exist in Ireland, where a massive sway towards the liberal side exists. I cannot think of a single major newspaper or TV station that would cater to the conservative section of the population. Moreover, I cannot think of a single major political party that would be socially conservative.

I think it would be fair to say that the three biggest social issues of the day which divide liberals and conservatives are abortion, homosexual unions and mass Muslim migration (maybe EU membership, at a push). The referendums on the first two were by no means a landslide, and migration still does not have consensus. Yet if one was to look at the media/politics of this country, it would seem that pro-lifers, advocates of traditional marriage and immigration skeptics do not exist.

Why is that? Is it a) conservatives just fail to organize, b) they do not care about propagating their views or maybe c) they are somehow outmaneuvered/suppressed in society by the liberal media giants (yes, "giants" in the Irish sense).

With public discourse controlled by liberal-leaning media and politicians, is it time to declare that conservatism is the new counter-culture?

One eyed Jack

Emmaline Tender Fowl wrote: »

With public discourse controlled by liberal-leaning media and politicians, is it time to declare that conservatism is the new counter-culture?

It wouldn’t be conservatism if it were to be known as the new anything.

L1011

In terms of votes received, the conservative media commentators there are are massively over-represented; with a permanent op-ed presence in the print media and basically a guaranteed seat on any discussion.

They account for about 2% of the vote.

There is no "silent majority" or anything like it - just an incredibly noisy tiny minority.

freshpopcorn

I think in Ireland we’ve seen parties such some of those United Ireland parties who may have been a tad conservative on some of those issues and they generally didn’t poll that well.
I find people might make the odd comment about issues such as homosexuality but once they’ve money they don’t care.

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

In terms of votes received, the conservative media commentators there are are massively over-represented; with a permanent op-ed presence in the print media and basically a guaranteed seat on any discussion.

They account for about 2% of the vote.

There is no "silent majority" or anything like it - just an incredibly noisy tiny minority.

Is there a single party in this country who willingly discusses

Social Welfare Reform - ending lifelong social welfare dependency
Law and Order - The complete shambles of our courts.
Addressing the Cocaine Epidemic
Addressing the Mental Health Crisis (that doesn't involve spending more taxpayers money)
Addressing the dysfunction of certain Cultural Groups and certain demographics and the implications of their behaviour on our broader society,
Our deteriorating Education Standards.
The coming Pension Crisis.
The huge cost of Gender Quotas being enforced in our Private Sector.
Indeed, has anyone questioned the requirement for Political Parties to sign up to a Feminist manifesto as per our latest election.
Addressing the consistent abuse of public office and the complete lack of accountability and the complete lack of punishment for those who do....
The role the EU has on social issues, ie, the Gender Deconstruction Theory that our kids are now being exposed to in their classrooms.
Addressing the widening gap in job security and benefits between the Private Sector and the Public sector.

Because I'd image a lot more than 2% of us would like to see a much more prominent discussion on a myriad of issues....

I do recall one Presidential Candidate getting into a lot of hot water for touching on one of those issues, he polled a lot higher than 2%.

If there is a Conservative Political Party in this country...I haven't come across it!

Eric Cartman

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is there a single party in this country who willingly discusses

Social Welfare Reform - ending lifelong social welfare dependency
Law and Order - The complete shambles of our courts.
Addressing the Cocaine Epidemic
Addressing the Mental Health Crisis (that doesn't involve spending more taxpayers money)
Addressing the dysfunction of certain Cultural Groups and certain demographics and the implications of their behaviour on our broader society,
Our deteriorating Education Standards.
The coming Pension Crisis.
The huge cost of Gender Quotas being enforced in our Private Sector.
Indeed, has anyone questioned the requirement for Political Parties to sign up to a Feminist manifesto as per our latest election.
Addressing the consistent abuse of public office and the complete lack of accountability and the complete lack of punishment for those who do....
The role the EU has on social issues, ie, the Gender Deconstruction Theory that our kids are now being exposed to in their classrooms.
Addressing the widening gap in job security and benefits between the Private Sector and the Public sector.

Because I'd image a lot more than 2% of us would like to see a much more prominent discussion on a myriad of issues....

I do recall one Presidential Candidate getting into a lot of hot water for touching on one of those issues, he polled a lot higher than 2%.

If there is a Conservative Political Party in this country...I haven't come across it!

there isn't because usually they come with a religious affiliation (e.g renua) or a xenophobic link (e.g the national front) which precludes sensible conservatives from entertaining their vote. Were we to have a party which could navigate the ship avoiding those dangerous waters it would do well, but its a tough ask.

Silentcorner

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there isn't because usually they come with a religious affiliation (e.g renua) or a xenophobic link (e.g the national front) which precludes sensible conservatives from entertaining their vote. Were we to have a party which could navigate the ship avoiding those dangerous waters it would do well, but its a tough ask.

I'm not sure it is...

We are entering some very difficult years financially and very tough decisions will have to be made, a lot of the issues I listed above come at a huge cost, someone will address those issues at some point....

I mean, we have the highest rate of jobless households in the EU...that alone is not sustainable....

You'll get the twitterati and the bishops in the media's knickers in a twist but who really listens to those anymore....

2ndcoming

Silentcorner wrote: »

The huge cost of Gender Quotas being enforced in our Private Sector.

Who is enforcing this exactly?

Silentcorner

2ndcoming wrote: »

Who is enforcing this exactly?

The government...

https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-pay-gap-7-4093919-Jun2018/

Harry Palmr

When I read this sort of thing I'm reminded that however annoying the woke types can be they are much less of a danger than a party of modern day Alice Glenn's.

Silentcorner

Harry Palmr wrote: »

When I read this sort of thing I'm reminded that however annoying the woke types can be they are much less of a danger than a party of modern day Alice Glenn's.

You know it perfectly ok not to agree with others on vital economic and social issues...

Pretending different opinions don't exist however is much more dangerous.

L1011

Silentcorner wrote: »

Is there a single party in this country who willingly discusses

Social Welfare Reform - ending lifelong social welfare dependency
Law and Order - The complete shambles of our courts.
Addressing the Cocaine Epidemic
Addressing the Mental Health Crisis (that doesn't involve spending more taxpayers money)
Addressing the dysfunction of certain Cultural Groups and certain demographics and the implications of their behaviour on our broader society,
Our deteriorating Education Standards.
The coming Pension Crisis.
The huge cost of Gender Quotas being enforced in our Private Sector.
Indeed, has anyone questioned the requirement for Political Parties to sign up to a Feminist manifesto as per our latest election.
Addressing the consistent abuse of public office and the complete lack of accountability and the complete lack of punishment for those who do....
The role the EU has on social issues, ie, the Gender Deconstruction Theory that our kids are now being exposed to in their classrooms.
Addressing the widening gap in job security and benefits between the Private Sector and the Public sector.

Because I'd image a lot more than 2% of us would like to see a much more prominent discussion on a myriad of issues....

I do recall one Presidential Candidate getting into a lot of hot water for touching on one of those issues, he polled a lot higher than 2%.

If there is a Conservative Political Party in this country...I haven't come across it!

Once a party decides that's what they're in to, they're fighting for the same sub 2% of the vote as Renua/IFP/NP are.

That's it - there's sub 2% support for it.

You'll find more support for individual elements of it, but people are going to be repelled by something when you stack the lot together; and you're back to the sub 2%

Said presidential candidate has been returning to the expected polling figures at every election since, as more of what he's about is revealed. Guess what he managed to get at the election this year? Sub 2%.

rossie1977

Emmaline Tender Fowl wrote: »

This interests me on a number of levels.

I know the politics of a number of countries quite well and I noticed that in each one of them, both the liberal and conservative (mostly in the social sense) parts of the population have their own media outlets - nationwide TV, newspapers, major websites, even colleges. They also each have political parties which represent their views.

What major newspapers, TV channels and colleges in the UK, mainland Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea or USA are outwardly and vocally anti abortion and anti homosexual unions?

I can't think of a single one. Not even Fox News are. Every single media outlet in those countries that are, are extremely niche.

Immigration is not a right/left, conservative/progressive issue. The most left wing countries on earth ie North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela have some of the strongest barriers to immigration. Even China is extremely difficult to move there full time.

However, this does not seem to exist in Ireland, where a massive sway towards the liberal side exists. I cannot think of a single major newspaper or TV station that would cater to the conservative section of the population. Moreover, I cannot think of a single major political party that would be socially conservative.

DUP are extremely socially conservative...

FF and FG are both socially conservative on many issues. That's why we continue to have a war on drugs and some of the strictest drug laws in the Western world. Why c Why we introduced a draconian prostitution law in recent years. Why we had a blasphemy law up to a few months ago and why it took the will of the people to bring FF/FG to cave over their stance on abortion.

I think it would be fair to say that the three biggest social issues of the day which divide liberals and conservatives are abortion, homosexual unions and mass Muslim migration (maybe EU membership, at a push). The referendums on the first two were by no means a landslide

66% to 33% for abortion and 62% to 38% for gay marriage are landslide victories in any language. Reagan only picked up 59% of vote in 84 US election for comparison sake.

and migration still does not have consensus. Yet if one was to look at the media/politics of this country, it would seem that pro-lifers, advocates of traditional marriage and immigration skeptics do not exist.

Maybe you are looking in wrong place. Every church in the country has pro life documentation as you enter. Go visit Knock and you will see it pretty much everywhere.

Why is that? Is it a) conservatives just fail to organize, b) they do not care about propagating their views or maybe c) they are somehow outmaneuvered/suppressed in society by the liberal media giants (yes, "giants" in the Irish sense).

With public discourse controlled by liberal-leaning media and politicians, is it time to declare that conservatism is the new counter-culture?

Here is the thing. Ireland lived under the most extreme conservative christian rule in the Western world for 8 decades. Most people remember it and don't ever want to return to those days. Even extremely religious people like my mother don't want a return to those days.

2ndcoming

Silentcorner wrote: »

The government...

https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-pay-gap-7-4093919-Jun2018/

This is about pay not quotas. Private companies can hire whoever they want. Is there a reason you think women should be paid less for the same work?

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

Once a party decides that's what they're in to, they're fighting for the same sub 2% of the vote as Renua/IFP/NP are.

That's it - there's sub 2% support for it.

Thats one way of convincing yourself that only 2% of Irish people would love to see our criminal justice system reformed, social welfare dependency addressed and Public Sector Waste addressed....plus all the others I have listed.

I think you are very very wrong if you think people do not care about the issues I have listed above...

L1011

Silentcorner wrote: »

Thats one way of convincing yourself that only 2% of Irish people would love to see our criminal justice system reformed, social welfare dependency addressed and Public Sector Waste addressed....plus all the others I have listed.

I think you are very very wrong if you think people do not care about the issues I have listed above...

People care individually about some of them

Stack the lot together and you're going to find less than 2% who share your view on the lot of them.

Silentcorner

2ndcoming wrote: »

This is about pay not quotas. Private companies can hire whoever they want. Is there a reason you think women should be paid less for the same work?

Of course I don't...laws already exists to make sure they don't...this is governments forcing private companies to reveal the difference in pay between all the women and all the men combined....which will have an impact on who they hire and who they promote....

Some companies are being given targets to appoint Female Directors...this stuff is madness....A Government has no business interfering with the Private Sector in this manner.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/biggest-irish-listed-companies-given-33-female-director-target-by-2023-1.3907443

Silentcorner

L1011 wrote: »

People care individually about some of them

Stack the lot together and you're going to find less than 2% who share your view on the lot of them.

I am going to respectfully disagree...

2ndcoming

Silentcorner wrote: »

Thats one way of convincing yourself that only 2% of Irish people would love to see our criminal justice system reformed, social welfare dependency addressed and Public Sector Waste addressed....plus all the others I have listed.

I think you are very very wrong if you think people do not care about the issues I have listed above...

Many of the issues you raise are exacerbated by neo-liberal conservatism, not helped by it. You capitalise Public Sector Waste, how are the private health and insurance industries doing during the current crisis by your estimation?

You can't address social welfare dependency when every time there's a bit of a squeeze the centre-right CONSERVATIVE political parties that have been in power since the year dot cut nearly all of the services helping people raise themselves out of that life.

Your issues are many and contradictory. Mississippi may be closed but what's Afghanistan's immigration policy like? You may feel more at home there...

Silentcorner

2ndcoming wrote: »

Many of the issues you raise are exacerbated by neo-liberal conservatism, not helped by it. You capitalise Public Sector Waste, how are the private health and insurance industries doing during the current crisis by your estimation?

You can't address social welfare dependency when every time there's a bit of a squeeze the centre-right CONSERVATIVE political parties that have been in power since the year dot cut nearly all of the services helping people raise themselves out of that life.

Your issues are many and contradictory. Mississippi may be closed but what's Afghanistan's immigration policy like? You may feel more at home there...

Right...you are getting a little too excited already....I've listed a few issues I believe don't get addressed by media or politicians...I have no intention of getting into a to and fro with someone who is already getting hot and bothered!!!

suicide_circus

L1011 wrote: »

In terms of votes received, the conservative media commentators there are are massively over-represented; with a permanent op-ed presence in the print media and basically a guaranteed seat on any discussion.

They account for about 2% of the vote.

There is no "silent majority" or anything like it - just an incredibly noisy tiny minority.

how are you defining "conservative" to come to this conclusion?

Annasopra

suicide_circus wrote: »

how are you defining "conservative" to come to this conclusion?

Probably to do with over prominience various Iona Institute people have on Irelands media.

Idbatterim

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm not sure it is...

We are entering some very difficult years financially and very tough decisions will have to be made, a lot of the issues I listed above come at a huge cost, someone will address those issues at some point....

I mean, we have the highest rate of jobless households in the EU...that alone is not sustainable....

You'll get the twitterati and the bishops in the media's knickers in a twist but who really listens to those anymore....

Totally agree, many workers really struggling here, now imagine several million of the welfare budget was spent reducing income taxes, and abolishing stamp duty etc for first time buyers, instead of several billion being blown on alcohol, bookies , taks aways and rip off smart phone and tv / broadband packages...

I'd love to have a trump here, someone who doesn't care about offending anyone, because irish politicians are spineless populist weasels

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

Of course I don't...laws already exists to make sure they don't...this is governments forcing private companies to reveal the difference in pay between all the women and all the men combined....which will have an impact on who they hire and who they promote....

Some companies are being given targets to appoint Female Directors...this stuff is madness....A Government has no business interfering with the Private Sector in this manner.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/biggest-irish-listed-companies-given-33-female-director-target-by-2023-1.3907443

Though it's still not a gender quota as you originally claimed. Is there any such gender quota for private businesses?

AndrewJRenko

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there isn't because usually they come with a religious affiliation (e.g renua) or a xenophobic link (e.g the national front) which precludes sensible conservatives from entertaining their vote. Were we to have a party which could navigate the ship avoiding those dangerous waters it would do well, but its a tough ask.

We had the PDs that played those economic cards for a few years. They crashed and burned.

AndrewJRenko

Emmaline Tender Fowl wrote: »

This interests me on a number of levels.

I know the politics of a number of countries quite well and I noticed that in each one of them, both the liberal and conservative (mostly in the social sense) parts of the population have their own media outlets - nationwide TV, newspapers, major websites, even colleges. They also each have political parties which represent their views.

However, this does not seem to exist in Ireland, where a massive sway towards the liberal side exists. I cannot think of a single major newspaper or TV station that would cater to the conservative section of the population. Moreover, I cannot think of a single major political party that would be socially conservative.
u

Have you tried listening to Newstalk? Or watching Ivan and Matt's gammon fest on VMTV? Or reading the Business Post or the Mail?

Idbatterim

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We had the PDs that played those economic cards for a few years. They crashed and burned.

Those were very different times! A huge sort of the sf surge was people being robbed on housing...

A new worker first party, would do well here

irishguitarlad

The op started the exact same thread about a month or two ago, yawn.

donspeekinglesh

Silentcorner wrote: »

Our deteriorating Education Standards.

Addressing the consistent abuse of public office and the complete lack of accountability and the complete lack of punishment for those who do....

Conservative politicians in the US are in favour of declining education standards - it's their best way of gaining new votes.

And the GOP think abusing public office is a perk of the job.

Silentcorner

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Conservative politicians in the US are in favour of declining education standards - it's their best way of gaining new votes.

And the GOP think abusing public office is a perk of the job.

I've no idea why that has got anything to do with Irish politics.

Silentcorner

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Though it's still not a gender quota as you originally claimed. Is there any such gender quota for private businesses?

What do you think the purpose of it is?
What do you think the purpose of setting targets for Female Directors is?

This is private enterprise, how they recruit, how much they pay their employees, who they appoint directors is entirely up to the owners, the government has no business interfering.

Silentcorner

suicide_circus wrote: »

how are you defining "conservative" to come to this conclusion?

He/she believes that the ordinary Irish voter is extremely discerning and will vigorously examine the respective party manifestos looking for not one/two or three but up to a dozen issues that they feel must be addressed...

Who knows, he/she might be right!!!

Everlong1

2ndcoming wrote: »

You can't address social welfare dependency when every time there's a bit of a squeeze the centre-right CONSERVATIVE political parties that have been in power since the year dot cut nearly all of the services helping people raise themselves out of that life.

Are you having a laugh? Welfare rates have been untouchable in this country for decades now and both FF and FG regularly use the welfare system to buy votes. There is without question a culture of welfare dependency among a cohort of the population, as epitomised by the likes of Margaret Cash and her ilk, who want the "right" to churn out baby after baby while not making even a token attempt to "lift themselves" out of their situation.

Everlong1

2ndcoming wrote: »

Mississippi may be closed but what's Afghanistan's immigration policy like? You may feel more at home there...

This kind of lazy knee jerk nonsense doesn't help. I'm no drooling redneck racist nor am I an Opus Dei type loon. I do share many of the OP's concerns about law and order and welfare dependency and I resent being dismissed as a nutter because of it.

Everlong1

Idbatterim wrote: »

Totally agree, many workers really struggling here, now imagine several million of the welfare budget was spent reducing income taxes, and abolishing stamp duty etc for first time buyers, instead of several billion being blown on alcohol, bookies , taks aways and rip off smart phone and tv / broadband packages...

I'd love to have a trump here, someone who doesn't care about offending anyone, because irish politicians are spineless populist weasels

Trump has been proven to be an idiot but you're spot on about the fact that we desperately need someone to start telling people the facts of life in this country. If we had an intelligent conservative who didn't come across as a buffoon like Trump or Boris Johnson I'd vote for them.

Silentcorner

Everlong1 wrote: »

This kind of lazy knee jerk nonsense doesn't help. I'm no drooling redneck racist nor am I an Opus Dei type loon. I do share many of the OP's concerns about law and order and welfare dependency and I resent being dismissed as a nutter because of it.

I used to believe that warped piety was a religious thing....it seems it's not!

osarusan

You would think that there would be a space among the Irish electorate for a party to embrace pretty basic conservative positions on social welfare, law and order, taxation, prison sentencing, and so on.

But the fact that no such party has emerged (apart from those with religious/xenophobic sides which make them unpalatable to most) suggests that such a space isn't really there on a worthwhile scale. The PDs were doing ok for a while, but with the group of politicians that had been with other parties, and by and large failed to bring a new generation of PD politicians through.

The chameleon-like flexibility of the two main parties has a lot to do with it I suppose.

donvito99

Why are we trying to shoe horn foreign (American) political concepts into our political landscape?

I had never heard of 'liberal' or 'conservative' being used in an Irish context prior to everyone's aunt and uncle joining Facebook and being radicalised by American political hysteria and conspiratorial, dog dirt youtubers.

It's pathetic.

Everlong1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

there isn't because usually they come with a religious affiliation (e.g renua) or a xenophobic link (e.g the national front) which precludes sensible conservatives from entertaining their vote. Were we to have a party which could navigate the ship avoiding those dangerous waters it would do well, but its a tough ask.

Spot on.

People respond to leadership if given half a chance. If we had a political party, or even a few courageous individuals within the mainstream political parties, who were prepared to go public on issues such as law and order, welfare reform and immigration, who weren't tainted by the religious/racist vibe you'd see more people voting for them. Look at how much publicity - and votes - Peter Casey got after only a few - very lukewarm - comments about Travellers. Yes, he might have only got 2% of the vote, but imagine what a well funded, coherent, slick PR campaign run by a professional conservative party could do. I think there is an untapped silent cohort out there who want to talk about these issues and vote for a party that's not composed of religious or racist nuts.

Everlong1

donvito99 wrote: »

Why are we trying to shoe horn foreign (American) political concepts into our political landscape?

I had never heard of 'liberal' or 'conservative' being used in an Irish context prior to everyone's aunt and uncle joining Facebook and being radicalised by American political hysteria and conspiratorial, dog dirt youtubers.

It's pathetic.

There's nothing foreign about basic political concepts. Unless there's some wonderful, unique Irish version of left wing, right wing, liberal and conservative that I've never heard of before. Feel free to enlighten us.

Everlong1

osarusan wrote: »

You would think that there would be a space among the Irish electorate for a party to embrace pretty basic conservative positions on social welfare, law and order, taxation, prison sentencing, and so on.

But the fact that no such party has emerged (apart from those with religious/xenophobic sides which make them unpalatable to most) suggests that such a space isn't really there on a worthwhile scale. The PDs were doing ok for a while, but with the group of politicians that had been with other parties, and by and large failed to bring a new generation of PD politicians through.

The chameleon-like flexibility of the two main parties has a lot to do with it I suppose.

Here's an idea. Maybe the way to go here is for an organised cohort of conservatives to join an established mainstream party - Fine Gael would seem to be the obvious choice - and try to push the conservative agenda from within that party? Remember the Militant Tendency in the British Labour party years ago? Yes, they failed ultimately because there was no taste for hard left politics in Britain at that time, but there may well be a receptive audience for more conservative politics here that could be exploited within FG. Any thoughts?

Fred Cryton

I think it's largely because Ireland was such a poor country only a generation ago. People associate the bad times in their minds with socially conservative times so they all want to be on the "progressive train". This is not the case for the UK or US where the 1950's and 1980's were boom times. So there is more of a counter culture in those nations due to the effect of de-industrialization.

Whatever about social conservatism, Ireland is absolutely crying out for a fiscally conservative party with a focus on tax cutting, major public sector reform and cutting the enormous 20 billion euro a year welfare budget. FG seem to have abandoned all of that in order to appeal to the smug middle class public sector workers and endear themselves to welfare recipients (little good that did them in last election).

donvito99

Everlong1 wrote: »

Unless there's some wonderful, unique Irish version of left wing, right wing, liberal and conservative that I've never heard of before.

There is. The fact that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have lead (almost) every government since the foundation of the State would suggest that the political spectrum and political issues you wish to force on Ireland won't fit.

Silentcorner

donvito99 wrote: »

There is. The fact that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have lead (almost) every government since the foundation of the State would suggest that the political spectrum and political issues you wish to force on Ireland won't fit.

And we have suffered three massive waves of emigration...gone bankrupt only ten years ago...we are one of the most indebted nations in the EU....we have the highest jobless households in the EU...we have a dysfunctional housing market for about 30 years now....cocaine epidemic, obesity epidemic, mental health epidemic....a complete joke of a health system, terrible public transport...

If it wasn't for our Corporation Tax scam we would be one of the poorest countries in Europe.

It's not working out too well really when you scratch beneath the surface....

And that is before we get into Tribunals and Political corruption and it's cost to all of us.

Silentcorner

Fred Cryton wrote: »

I think it's largely because Ireland was such a poor country only a generation ago. People associate the bad times in their minds with socially conservative times so they all want to be on the "progressive train". This is not the case for the UK or US where the 1950's and 1980's were boom times. So there is more of a counter culture in those nations due to the effect of de-industrialization.

Whatever about social conservatism, Ireland is absolutely crying out for a fiscally conservative party with a focus on tax cutting, major public sector reform and cutting the enormous 20 billion euro a year welfare budget. FG seem to have abandoned all of that in order to appeal to the smug middle class public sector workers and endear themselves to welfare recipients (little good that did them in last election).

We do seem to be scarred from those dark times, in a very unhealthy manner too...if someone asks, what is the cost of this to the taxpayer they'll be accused of every ism/phobic twitter can throw at them.....

The direction of FG has mystified me in recent years....they have abandoned the very thing they had a reputation for...as a fiscally conservative party...they'll pay a huge price in time for that, they already are!

kowloonkev

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Have you tried listening to Newstalk? Or watching Ivan and Matt's gammon fest on VMTV? Or reading the Business Post or the Mail?

Newstalk? You must be joking. The Irish Mail is central at best; but it's right of all the others if that's what right means now.

The problem as has been stated is that people in the public eye are afraid of coming down on the same side of the line as the church on any issue. Until church rule fades into history then it would be hard to come out with conservative views especially on social issues.

AndrewJRenko

Silentcorner wrote: »

What do you think the purpose of it is?
What do you think the purpose of setting targets for Female Directors is?

This is private enterprise, how they recruit, how much they pay their employees, who they appoint directors is entirely up to the owners, the government has no business interfering.

So just to be clear, there is no gender quota legislation applying to Irish businesses, agreed?

Were there many other inaccuracies or exaggerations in your initial list?

Everlong1

donvito99 wrote: »

There is. The fact that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have lead (almost) every government since the foundation of the State would suggest that the political spectrum and political issues you wish to force on Ireland won't fit.

The two parties you refer to have their own political ideologies. They might not call themselves left wing or right wing, liberal or conservative, but they do fit into those categories quite easily. FF = traditionally conservative on social issues, happy to throw money at everyone to buy votes makes them populist or, if you prefer, left wing. FG = traditionally liberal on social issues, conservative on economics (although the current FG seem just as happy to throw money at welfare as FF were).

What exactly is uniquely Irish about any of this? Just because we don't label our politics as left/right, conservative/liberal the way other countries do doesn't mean we don't follow those trends. You're deluded if you think we have some happy unique Irish "third way". We don't.

AndrewJRenko

Idbatterim wrote: »

Those were very different times! A huge sort of the sf surge was people being robbed on housing...

A new worker first party, would do well here

Worker first? Great idea - improved rights to trade union representation, better treatment of worker cooperatives, elimination of worker exploitation through the gig economy - that sort of thing?

listermint

Silentcorner wrote: »

I am going to respectfully disagree...

Without being condescending.


You disagreeing and the facts are two different things.

If you were right, the party would exist and would be actually challenging for government or be in it.


The figures speak for themselves.

You've combined so many of your personal topics together that you are blinded by reality.

osarusan

Everlong1 wrote: »

Here's an idea. Maybe the way to go here is for an organised cohort of conservatives to join an established mainstream party - Fine Gael would seem to be the obvious choice - and try to push the conservative agenda from within that party? Remember the Militant Tendency in the British Labour party years ago? Yes, they failed ultimately because there was no taste for hard left politics in Britain at that time, but there may well be a receptive audience for more conservative politics here that could be exploited within FG. Any thoughts?

Again, begs the question as to why an organised cohort of conservatives haven't tried this.