Unleaded

swarlb

Maybe a bit pedantic, but in these days of lockdown, anything is a distraction.
I've noticed in a few threads people say they 'topped up with unleaded' or accidentally put in 'unleaded' instead of diesel.
Now I'm an aul fella.... but I've never used the term 'unleaded'... simply 'petrol'... I mean, is it possible to buy 'leaded' fuel in your local 'petrol' station any more.
As I said, I'm old and bored....

maestroamado

swarlb wrote: »

Maybe a bit pedantic, but in these days of lockdown, anything is a distraction.
I've noticed in a few threads people say they 'topped up with unleaded' or accidentally put in 'unleaded' instead of diesel.
Now I'm an aul fella.... but I've never used the term 'unleaded'... simply 'petrol'... I mean, is it possible to buy 'leaded' fuel in your local 'petrol' station any more.
As I said, I'm old and bored....

I'm guessing old timer and spent a good bit of time in states.


The same applies to beer Coors in bars.
Everyone asks for Coors in a bar but it is actually Coors light as that's
what's on the bottle.
It's clever marketing...

Atlantic Dawn

Off topic but being also not a young lad I had a grin on my face seeing it at €1.20 a litre yesterday.

maestroamado

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Off topic but being also not a young lad I had a grin on my face seeing it at €1.20 a litre yesterday.

Was that unleaded or coors?

swarlb

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Off topic but being also not a young lad I had a grin on my face seeing it at €1.20 a litre yesterday.

I remember a fill of a Honda 50 was 10 (old pence)

colm_mcm

That’s what the retailers sell it as.

bazz26

It's the same as calling fuel stations - petrol stations despite them selling different types of fuel. Nobody says I need to go to the diesel station and fill up.

It goes back to the days of the early 1990s when catalytic converters and fuel injection were first introduced here. They had to run on unleaded petrol only afaik whereas the older cars ran on leaded petrol, hence when unleaded petrol was introduced they had separate fuel pumps for both leaded and unleaded petrol. I think it was around the turn of the millennium before they phased out the old "leaded" petrol pumps and unleaded petrol became the norm, the term has just stuck. On a side note back then diesel cars were still a rare sight and you were lucky if a filling station had just the one diesel fuel pump.

swarlb

bazz26 wrote: »

It's the same as calling fuel stations - petrol stations despite them selling different types of fuel. Nobody says I need to go to the diesel station and fill up.

It goes back to the days of the early 1990s when catalytic converters and fuel injection were first introduced here. They had to run on unleaded petrol only afaik whereas the older cars ran on leaded petrol, hence when unleaded petrol was introduced they had separate fuel pumps for both leaded and unleaded petrol. I think it was around the turn of the millennium before they phased out the old "leaded" petrol pumps and unleaded petrol became the norm, the term has just stuck. On a side note back then diesel cars were still a rare sight and you were lucky if a filling station had just the one diesel fuel pump.

It goes back to the 'days of the early 1990's' Christ, that makes it sound so 'last century'....

Diesel cars rare in the 1990's ? We were selling diesel cars at a steady rate all through the 80's and 'early 90's, and even the odd few back in the 70's.
The main reason people didn't buy too many back then was because 'diesel' was always considered a 'dirty fuel'. Perhaps if John Gormley had driven a car rather than used a bike he would have know this when in Govt.

bazz26

Diesel cars were rarer though compared to these days because they were more expensive to buy. You paid on average about 5k more for one over a similar petrol version so people who were paying for them out of their own pockets or didn't have access to the green stuff couldn't justify the price difference.

vectra

swarlb wrote: »

I remember a fill of a Honda 50 was 10 (old pence)

And around that time a pint of Guinness was 28p

antodeco

swarlb wrote: »

I remember a fill of a Honda 50 was 10 (old pence)

vectra wrote: »

And around that time a pint of Guinness was 28p

colm_mcm

swarlb wrote: »

It goes back to the 'days of the early 1990's' Christ, that makes it sound so 'last century'....

Diesel cars rare in the 1990's ? We were selling diesel cars at a steady rate all through the 80's and 'early 90's, and even the odd few back in the 70's.
The main reason people didn't buy too many back then was because 'diesel' was always considered a 'dirty fuel'. Perhaps if John Gormley had driven a car rather than used a bike he would have know this when in Govt.

Diesel cars were quite expensive to buy.




They were considered dirty alright, they were visibly dirty, and terribly slow.

And Jesus the tax.

silver2020

Unleaded = Healthy petrol

People got used to it when there was leaded & unleaded and there was no need to change when leaded petrol went away.

vectra

colm_mcm wrote: »

Diesel cars were quite expensive to buy.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=510343&stc=1&d=1587401909


They were considered dirty alright, they were visibly dirty, and terribly slow.

And Jesus the tax.

Father in law bought a new Camry 2.0 tdi estate in February 87, I think it was just under 17k at the time. Beautiful car to drive at the time and it could shift for what it was.

Del2005

vectra wrote: »

Father in law bought a new Camry 2.0 tdi estate in February 87, I think it was just under 17k at the time. Beautiful car to drive at the time and it could shift for what it was.

At the other end was my Uncle's 1.6 NA diesel Golf even my dad who's the slowest driver I know said it was slow

standardg60

maestroamado wrote: »

I'm guessing old timer and spent a good bit of time in states.


The same applies to beer Coors in bars.
Everyone asks for Coors in a bar but it is actually Coors light as that's
what's on the bottle.
It's clever marketing...

Nothing to do with marketing, everyone just asks for Coors because there isn't a non-light version so no need to distinguish.

tcawley29

standardg60 wrote: »

Nothing to do with marketing, everyone just asks for Coors because there isn't a non-light version so no need to distinguish.

There is https://www.coors.com/av?url=https://www.coors.com/

standardg60

tcawley29 wrote: »

There is https://www.coors.com/av?url=https://www.coors.com/

Not here! It's available in the States alright.
If you want a 'normal' Coors here then it's 'Canadian'.
Same company.

colm_mcm

vectra wrote: »

Father in law bought a new Camry 2.0 tdi estate in February 87, I think it was just under 17k at the time. Beautiful car to drive at the time and it could shift for what it was.

Same basic engine as mk1 Avensis AFAIK, 85bhp (Vs 90 - and less torque than Avensis) in this case but yes they seemed faster at the time.

Used to love the green light on the tacho that came in when the turbo kicked in!

And all that velour. Would love one now.

That was an exception at the time, most other diesels were miserable, especially German stuff. Maybe some Peugeot’s had decent options by then.

swarlb

bazz26 wrote: »

Diesel cars were rarer though compared to these days because they were more expensive to buy. You paid on average about 5k more for one over a similar petrol version so people who were paying for them out of their own pockets or didn't have access to the green stuff couldn't justify the price difference.

5k more.... I'd say closer to 2k if you choose the model of car people were actually buying...
We sold Fiats, Fords and Nissans throughout the 80's... difference between similar engine sized petrol and diesel was not that great, certainly not enough to put people off. What did put them off was the 'not trusting diesel because they didn't know anything about them'.
I'd say taxi and fleet drivers were our biggest market.

swarlb

standardg60 wrote: »

Not here! It's available in the States alright.
If you want a 'normal' Coors here then it's 'Canadian'.
Same company.

Is this thread about petrol or beer, a slight difference as neither 'petrol' 'leaded' or 'unleaded' brands.....
Do people go into a bar and ask for a 'beer' or do they ask for it by brand. Rarely would someone go into a 'fuel station' and ask for a particular brand of fuel, they'd simply fill with what was available, and if they didn't like what was available, they'd go to the 'fuel station' that sold what they wanted.
And they still wouldn't ask for it by 'brand name'.

wotzgoingon

I remember leaded petrol and me and my mother would be at the petrol station she would tell me to put in unleaded. You could still buy both leaded and unleaded at the time.

I was watching a YouTube video recently and the guy was at a race track and was pouring in a barrel of leaded race fuel. This was in America so I don't know if the race fuel they sell here is also leaded.

standardg60

swarlb wrote: »

Is this thread about petrol or beer, a slight difference as neither 'petrol' 'leaded' or 'unleaded' brands.....
Do people go into a bar and ask for a 'beer' or do they ask for it by brand. Rarely would someone go into a 'fuel station' and ask for a particular brand of fuel, they'd simply fill with what was available, and if they didn't like what was available, they'd go to the 'fuel station' that sold what they wanted.
And they still wouldn't ask for it by 'brand name'.

I agree, someone else made the analogy that I responded to.

whippet

€25k for an Delta Integrale .... it was pricey back then !!

wotzgoingon

whippet wrote: »

€25k for an Delta Integrale .... it was pricey back then !!

They are still pricey.

colm_mcm

whippet wrote: »

€25k for an Delta Integrale .... it was pricey back then !!

If you index inflation, that’s €58,000

silver2020

swarlb wrote: »

Is this thread about petrol or beer, a slight difference as neither 'petrol' 'leaded' or 'unleaded' brands.....
Do people go into a bar and ask for a 'beer' or do they ask for it by brand. .

Now that you bring it up - Becks Non-alcoholic was called becks "unleaded" by many.

maestroamado

standardg60 wrote: »

Nothing to do with marketing, everyone just asks for Coors because there isn't a non-light version so no need to distinguish.

Extra



Original Coors in Ireland Coors Extra Gold 5% alcohol early 90s.

It was too strong for us so it was changed to light 4.3%.
This wasn't marketed as light beer. its Americian???

maestroamado

standardg60 wrote: »

Not here! It's available in the States alright.
If you want a 'normal' Coors here then it's 'Canadian'.
Same company.

I thought Molson Canadian and Coors Colorado and they just amalgamated.

I must remember to ask for unleaded beer as i never heard of this...kinda funny...

mickdw

25k for a 520i in 1989.
Alot of money back then.

colm_mcm

That would have been quite basic as well IIRC.

maestroamado

mickdw wrote: »

25k for a 520i in 1989.
Alot of money back then.

i have a 1983, bm 320 w...hich fuel be better coors or real petrol....

UrbanSprawl

swarlb wrote: »

Maybe a bit pedantic, but in these days of lockdown, anything is a distraction.
I've noticed in a few threads people say they 'topped up with unleaded' or accidentally put in 'unleaded' instead of diesel.
Now I'm an aul fella.... but I've never used the term 'unleaded'... simply 'petrol'... I mean, is it possible to buy 'leaded' fuel in your local 'petrol' station any more.
As I said, I'm old and bored....

well Im sure leaded petrol cars are still on the roads so it must still be possible to find leaded petrol

colm_mcm

Leaded petrol was banned in the EU in 2005. They stopped selling it here around 2000.

wotzgoingon

UrbanSprawl wrote: »

well Im sure leaded petrol cars are still on the roads so it must still be possible to find leaded petrol

You can't it's been banned for years. Leaded petrol cars since 1986 can run unleaded.

Wildly Boaring

colm_mcm wrote: »

They were considered dirty alright, they were visibly dirty, and terribly slow.

And Jesus the tax.

My dad had a 1990 Isuzu Gemini 1.5 diesel, no turbo.
It was sloooooooóoow
So slow that his 1996 vento 1.9 diesel, no turbo, felt quick.

I think the vento had about 75hp, I think the gemini was a whole 51!!!!!!!

Lewis_Benson

colm_mcm wrote: »

Leaded petrol was banned in the EU in 2005. They stopped selling it here around 2000.

Yep
Stations sold LRP (lead replacement petrol) here for a while afterwards, before phasing that out too.

swarlb

maestroamado wrote: »

Extra



Original Coors in Ireland Coors Extra Gold 5% alcohol early 90s.

It was too strong for us so it was changed to light 4.3%.
This wasn't marketed as light beer. its Americian???

Ok, ok... enough with the Coors.... this thread is about 'unleaded' fuel, petrol, gas... whatever.... not alcohol.
And also, the country is Ireland.... not the US, Canada or outer Mongolia.... IRELAND.

I'll make one final 'beer' analogy ('cos I started the thread so I'm allowed)

If you go into any pub in Ireland, and ask for a 'pint'.... you'll get Guinness.
And if the bar(person) asks you a 'pint of what ?'
They need to be sacked....

End of discussion on alcohol....
Now back to 'unleaded'

Wetbench4

Remember how every diesel car in the 80's/early 90's had a big dirty black soot covered rear end, manky looking they were.

You could barely make out the tail lights on some of them..

R.O.R

My Metro was supposed to be run only on leaded petrol but unleaded was a good bit cheaper so started getting fuel from the green pump instead of the red.

Didn't notice any difference in performance or any (new) strange noises from the car.

Marcusm

maestroamado wrote: »

I thought Molson Canadian and Coors Colorado and they just amalgamated.

I must remember to ask for unleaded beer as i never heard of this...kinda funny...

I remember Coors back in early to mid 90s. It and Miller. To take it back to motoring, Coors was the beer which was being transported illegally in Smokey & the Bandit! Eastbound and down...

zilog_jones

bazz26 wrote: »

It goes back to the days of the early 1990s when catalytic converters and fuel injection were first introduced here. They had to run on unleaded petrol only afaik whereas the older cars ran on leaded petrol, hence when unleaded petrol was introduced they had separate fuel pumps for both leaded and unleaded petrol.

Your timing and reasoning is a bit off. The impetus for introducing unleaded petrol is somewhat independent from catalytic converters as lead isn't exactly great for air quality regardless of the benefits of catalysts (reducing NOx, CO, etc.), although cars with cats do require unleaded petrol. It became available in the 1970s in the US and Japan.

Unleaded petrol became available in Ireland in 1986:
https://www.rte.ie/archives/2016/1011/823260-unleaded-petrol-on-sale/

All new cars sold in the EU from 1989 onwards had to be able to run on unleaded - again, before cats where a requirement here.

I think it was around the turn of the millennium before they phased out the old "leaded" petrol pumps and unleaded petrol became the norm, the term has just stuck.

It was exactly 1st January 2000 when leaded petrol was phased out in Ireland, and up until then the leaded petrol that was available here was labelled "4-star", which is the old British octane rating - about the equivalent of 98 RON.

So older cars not only had to be able to handle the different chemistry of unleaded fuel (a problem with certain iron heads), but also the slightly lower octane of 95 RON (maybe some carb/ignition adjustment required for optimal running).

LRP (lead replacement petrol) was briefly available from the pumps previously used for 4-star, but was dropped due to lack of popularity. Separate LRP additives are available for those that need it.

R.O.R wrote: »

My Metro was supposed to be run only on leaded petrol but unleaded was a good bit cheaper so started getting fuel from the green pump instead of the red.

Didn't notice any difference in performance or any (new) strange noises from the car.

The A-Series engine (in the Mini and Metro) is one common example of an engine that couldn't easily run on unleaded without modification as the cast iron cylinder head was too "soft" and the valve seats would wear away. Unless it was from 1989 or after, or the head had been modified or replaced, the unleaded petrol would eventually cause damage - not sure how long it would take though.

BrianD3

RE: unleaded petrol, attached are a few pages on it from the Irish Times motoring supplement - same paper that had the 1989 pricelist posted earlier.

zilog_jones

Hard to read the text there, but was that the point where they made unleaded cheaper than leaded petrol to encourage further use of it? In 1986 it was more expensive than leaded.

colm_mcm

Gist of the article is they put 5p on a GALLON of leaded in the budget but there were only 100 retailers actually selling unleaded.

I remember the car stickers similar to the advert there.

RTE news report from 1986 says unleaded was 4p a gallon more than leaded.

The first gallon of petrol was apparently sold at Esso in Walkinstown.

wotzgoingon

zilog_jones wrote: »

It was exactly 1st January 2000 when leaded petrol was phased out in Ireland, and up until then the leaded petrol that was available here was labelled "4-star", which is the old British octane rating - about the equivalent of 98 RON.

So older cars not only had to be able to handle the different chemistry of unleaded fuel (a problem with certain iron heads), but also the slightly lower octane of 95 RON (maybe some carb/ignition adjustment required for optimal running).

Never knew or bothered looking into it that leaded petrol had a higher octane rating.

eastie17

maestroamado wrote: »

I'm guessing old timer and spent a good bit of time in states.


The same applies to beer Coors in bars.
Everyone asks for Coors in a bar but it is actually Coors light as that's
what's on the bottle.
It's clever marketing...

I still go to the Statoil garage for me fuel
Why is it a garage? Theres no mechanic there and you cant park your car for long periods of time

Henry Ford III

Unleaded conversion for my MkII Escort RS2000 cost quite a lot.

L1011

swarlb wrote: »

If you go into any pub in Ireland, and ask for a 'pint'.... you'll get Guinness.
And if the bar(person) asks you a 'pint of what ?'
They need to be sacked....

End of discussion on alcohol....
Now back to 'unleaded'

Plenty of pubs don't even sell Guinness.



In the olden days you had different grades of leaded, octane level but sold by a completely opaque 'star' system that wasn't always the same at each provider. That had basically died out by the mid 1990s and it was just Leaded/Unleaded/Diesel on pumps.


Find it odd that unleaded only came in in '86 as there were cars being sold here well before then with "Unleaded Only" warnings; e.g. cars with the PRV V6 engine and a cat. The Delorean being a rather exotic example!

maestroamado

L1011 wrote: »

Plenty of pubs don't even sell Guinness.



In the olden days you had different grades of leaded, octane level but sold by a completely opaque 'star' system that wasn't always the same at each provider. That had basically died out by the mid 1990s and it was just Leaded/Unleaded/Diesel on pumps.


Find it odd that unleaded only came in in '86 as there were cars being sold here well before then with "Unleaded Only" warnings; e.g. cars with the PRV V6 engine and a cat. The Delorean being a rather exotic example!

I have 1983 bmw which i have to put lead additive (coors)

Ar you saying this completely unnecessary?
A neighbor said it to do with valve clearance? i do not know.


Someone mentioned pubs.
I heard a true story of these two brothers running pub in town in leitrim.
About this American on hols was there for drink with relatives.
He asks where the bathroom and directed to shed out the back where there is a bowl.
He comes back and exclaims loudly, hey guys there no lock on that thing out there.
Brother replied, well no-one stole a sh1te out of it yet.

L1011

maestroamado wrote: »

I have 1983 bmw which i have to put lead additive (coors)

Ar you saying this completely unnecessary?
A neighbor said it to do with valve clearance? i do not know.


Someone mentioned pubs.
I heard a true story of these two brothers running pub in town in leitrim.
About this American on hols was there for drink with relatives.
He asks where the bathroom and directed to shed out the back where there is a bowl.
He comes back and exclaims loudly, hey guys there no lock on that thing out there.
Brother replied, well no-one stole a sh1te out of it yet.

It depends entirely on the engine. Engines actually needing leaded were built until the 1990s.

Its the valve seats that are the main cause of concern, many engines have soft metal valve seats that rely on the lead buildup to not fail. Many engines can be converted but it might not be cheap - however if you're using something as a daily driver it could be cheaper than additives or the stunningly expensive actual leaded petrol you can still buy in the UK.

Also, some older engines are timed to expect very high octane fuel ("five star" - 101 octane or "four star" - 98 octane usually) which normal unleaded does not meet. Lots of the "95 octane" unleaded here is actually 98 or 99; but not all - the 95 is a minimum.