Not sure how to work job title

Clauric

A friend is coming to the end of their current contract role and has been asked by another company to provide a CV for a new role.

However, they (and I) cannot figure out how to word their job title.

In brief, their role was to review and fix spreadsheet templates. Mostly converting what was being done by hand into formulae in the spreadsheets, to take into account the individual cases (e.g. if a person X worked only part-time, the spreadsheet would have to be manually updated for hours, as opposed to the fulltime staff who don't need their hours set manually). This is only one example, but the work was required across 30+ teams, and at least 20 templates per team.

They also had to review the work documentation across all the company, to ensure that the spreadsheets matched the documentation, and update the documentation to match changes made in policies over the last 5 years.

At the time they joined the company, they were brought in to handle training on a completely separate software package but got moved to the new role when the company decided not to proceed with the rollout.

Any suggestions on how to word their job title, without it sounding like a data entry role (which it was not)?

Mrs OBumble

Analyst

Upforthematch

Assistant business analyst?

OMM 0000

It's not business analyst.

It sounds more like administrator.

Or data entry administrator.

blindsider

Document Controller & Analyst

ted1

What was on their contract ?
You could tailor it to whatever job they are applying too.

GalwayGrrrrrl

I agree it sounds like an administrator role. Analyst suggests there was some interpretation of the data which it doesn’t sound like they did.

More importantly- What does their contract say? The CV should reflect their contract otherwise the reference won’t match.

Clauric

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

I agree it sounds like an administrator role. Analyst suggests there was some interpretation of the data which it doesn’t sound like they did.

More importantly- What does their contract say? The CV should reflect their contract otherwise the reference won’t match.

The contract says "XX trainer", where XXX is the system that they were meant to provide training on, but never happened.

Mrs OBumble

GalwayGrrrrrl wrote: »

I agree it sounds like an administrator role. Analyst suggests there was some interpretation of the data which it doesn’t sound like they did.

Sounds like data interpretation to me:

converting what was being done by hand into formulae in the spreadsheets, to take into account the individual cases ....

They also had to review the work documentation across all the company, to ensure that the spreadsheets matched the documentation, and update the documentation to match changes made in policies over the last 5 years.


Administrators bang stuff in to spreadsheets.

Analysts design and sometimes implement formulae.

Clauric

blindsider wrote: »

Document Controller & Analyst

That is an interesting title. Might suggest this to them.

TheBoyConor

clerk

data entry clerk.

Clauric

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sounds like data interpretation to me:

converting what was being done by hand into formulae in the spreadsheets, to take into account the individual cases ....

They also had to review the work documentation across all the company, to ensure that the spreadsheets matched the documentation, and update the documentation to match changes made in policies over the last 5 years.


Administrators bang stuff in to spreadsheets.

Analysts design and sometimes implement formulae.

Definetely not an administrator. The company has those, and they are very territorial in their roles. Also, they (the person doing the work) had no role in inputting live data into the spreadsheets they built, and was not involved in the admin side of the company's work.

Clauric

TheBoyConor wrote: »

clerk

data entry clerk.

No data entry involved.

Nika Bolokov

Process Improvement Analyst

TheBoyConor

Clauric wrote: »

No data entry involved.

just a clerk then.

RandomViewer

Systems tester?

bluefinger

Not a good idea to make up a job title. If a future employer looks for a written reference they will expect the job title to match.

OMM 0000

Clauric wrote: »

The contract says "XX trainer", where XXX is the system that they were meant to provide training on, but never happened.

Could she ask her manager for advice?

It could be seen as very shady to change your job title for your CV.

ted1

bluefinger wrote: »

Not a good idea to make up a job title. If a future employer looks for a written reference they will expect the job title to match.

He clearly has no title. Nothing wrong with tailoring the job title if it describes what was done. Different companies have different titles fir the same job.

Quality control supervisor , validation, data entry. Data management , document management, seem to be key words that could be used to create a description or title

OMM 0000

What happens if the future employer checks her reference and the HR person is like, "what? she didn't have that job..."?

ted1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

What happens if the future employer checks her reference and the HR person is like, "what? she didn't have that job..."?

Many jobs don’t have titles, the HR person will say yes he performed those duties. Simple as that.

ted1

bluefinger wrote: »

Not a good idea to make up a job title. If a future employer looks for a written reference they will expect the job title to match.

Written references are very rare these days. Few companies will leave themselves open to written bad reference or a good reference

Cyrus

I’d go with data analyst or information services analyst something like that

bluefinger

ted1 wrote: »

He clearly has no title. Nothing wrong with tailoring the job title if it describes what was done. Different companies have different titles fir the same job.

Quality control supervisor , validation, data entry. Data management , document management, seem to be key words that could be used to create a description or title

It says above the job title was trainer.

OMM 0000

ted1 wrote: »

Many jobs don’t have titles, the HR person will say yes he performed those duties. Simple as that.

It's really not that simple...

Fann Linn

What do they say for their car or house insurance quote when asked the same question?

ted1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's really not that simple...

It is , references are checked when they are ready to offer you the job. They will care about the experience and the job tasks not the title.
A fuel Injection engineer will have the same role and functions as a petrol pump attendant.

A hunger displacement specialist will have the same role as a waitress.

A aquatic supervisor and an aquatic accident prevention and response specialist is a life guard.

So yeah the role and function is what matters not the title.

IBM call a FAN a AMD, Air Moving Device.
If I was looking for a job as a Fan engineer I’d call myself a AMD engineer. Or if Dell I’d call myself a FAN engineer

kenmm

If they were XXXX trainer, then out that down and event and about it in interview then just explain that's why you are moving in because you never got to do the role the were hired for (the training).

Otherwise XXX Consultant or XXX Administrator are both general enough terms that incorporates the party of the job that's important.

Think you are overthinking it tbh.

OMM 0000

ted1 wrote: »

It is , references are checked when they are ready to offer you the job. They will care about the experience and the job tasks not the title.
A fuel Injection engineer will have the same role and functions as a petrol pump attendant.

A hunger displacement specialist will have the same role as a waitress.

A aquatic supervisor and an aquatic accident prevention and response specialist is a life guard.

So yeah the role and function is what matters not the title.

IBM call a FAN a AMD, Air Moving Device.
If I was looking for a job as a Fan engineer I’d call myself a AMD engineer. Or if Dell I’d call myself a FAN engineer

This is very detached from the real world.

I'm not continuing this conversation with you.

ted1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This is very detached from the real world.

I'm not continuing this conversation with you.

I think you are detached from the real world a job tithe is just a tithe. It’s what you do that’s relevant.

OMM 0000

ted1 wrote: »

I think you are detached from the real world a job tithe is just a tithe. It’s what you do that’s relevant.

You think making up a job title on your CV won't bother the HR person at the company you used to work for, or the HR person at the company you want to work at.

All you're telling us is you think lying is normal, acceptable, and you think you can get away with it.

That's more than shady, it's sociopathic.

Mrs OBumble

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You think making up a job title on your CV won't bother the HR person at the company you used to work for, or the HR person at the company you want to work at.

All you're telling us is you think lying is normal, acceptable, and you think you can get away with it.

That's more than shady, it's sociopathic.

Rubbish.

Your CV describes what you did, not what your job title was.

Saying you were are XXX trainer when you weren't would be lying.

OMM 0000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Rubbish.

Your CV describes what you did, not what your job title was.

Saying you were are XXX trainer when you weren't would be lying.

Your CV doesn't describe what your job title was?

I feel there is some projecting going on here. I suspect you've made up job titles on your CV, but you don't want to admit that's lying.

Of course making up job titles on your CV is lying.

How are we even having this conversation?

OMM 0000

I think there's some misunderstanding here of what a CV is, and what a reference check is.

A reference check is confirming the job title and dates of employment are true.

So if you make up a job title on your CV, the reference check will fail, and this will be a major red flag to any competent HR manager.

The way you're supposed to handle situations like the OPs (and I have similar situations on my CV) is you're supposed to use the bullet points under the job title to clarify the role, responsibilities, and achievements.

I'm going to do this for the OP now:

XXX Trainer
Some Company Some Dates
* Wide ranging role with responsibilities far beyond the job title.
* Fixed and maintained company spreadsheets, including creating and updating formulas.
* Reviewed and corrected company-wide documentation, and ensured all documentation accurately reflected the reality on the ground and conformed with company policies.
* Some achievement here.
* Anther achievement.

OR

And this is the correct solution:

You ring your manager and HR and get them to give you the correct job title. They are the solution, not random people on the internet.

ted1

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Your CV doesn't describe what your job title was?

I feel there is some projecting going on here. I suspect you've made up job titles on your CV, but you don't want to admit that's lying.

Of course making up job titles on your CV is lying.

How are we even having this conversation?

I’ve done jobs that didn’t have titles , I also look after renders where we are the tenderer or the the vendor. The positions required will have different names but will have a score beside it based on role, experience and qualification.

I don’t think you have any really experience

OMM 0000

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve done jobs that didn’t have titles , I also look after renders where we are the tenderer or the the vendor. The positions required will have different names but will have a score beside it based on role, experience and qualification.

I don’t think you have any really experience

I've been working nearly 25 years, I'm the CEO of a tech company (I got promoted to CEO from CTO, and before that I had various director, management, and engineer roles), and I used to be a recruiter. I've worked in multiple countries, and currently spend my time between three Asian countries. I also have a PhD.

Instead of insulting me and now pretending job titles are irrelevant because some jobs don't have titles, why not criticise the points I made in my previous post? You can't, of course, so you have to insult me.

It's OK to be wrong.

acorntoast

OMM 0000 wrote: »

A reference check is confirming the job title and dates of employment are true.

OMM is correct here. I work as the HR administrator for a multinational and checking references is one of my jobs. We wouldn't proceed with an application if the job title didn't match - especially something as big as changing trainer to analyst! We would consider that a serious attempt at deception.

Clauric

acorntoast wrote: »

OMM is correct here. I work as the HR administrator for a multinational and checking references is one of my jobs. We wouldn't proceed with an application if the job title didn't match - especially something as big as changing trainer to analyst! We would consider that a serious attempt at deception.

Stepping back in here.

Can I ask how you would deal with the issue in my OP?

If the person's original title is XXX Trainer, but they never did that role, and did another role within the company, how would they go about stating their role/title, as well as their job description?

kenmm

OP - Quoting myself here - but whats up with using the original job title and explaining the actual duties?

kenmm wrote: »

If they were XXXX trainer, then out that down and when asked about it in interview then just explain that's why you are moving in because you never got to do the role the were hired for (the training).

Otherwise XXX Consultant or XXX Administrator are both general enough terms that incorporates the part of the job that's important.

Every company is different and ther eis no universal rule. Some places will be very tight on job titles and others will allow a little bit of wiggle room.

Putting down p!ss taking titles that were clearly not done or using non standard words to big up a job is generally silly (discussed above), but not relevant here - the person was hired for a job that didn't materialise. Honesty in this case is the best policy, forget about all these other peoples experiences with different companies and hiring processes..

eoinob50

Clauric wrote: »

Stepping back in here.

Can I ask how you would deal with the issue in my OP?

If the person's original title is XXX Trainer, but they never did that role, and did another role within the company, how would they go about stating their role/title, as well as their job description?

I had a colleague in the same situation 2/3 years ago. The simple and only solution is for her to talk to her manager & HR and get the title to reflect her actual role.

If she changes it herself, she might get away with it if she applies to very small businesses i.e no real HR department. Any big Tech/MN company wouldn't look twice as they are inundated with applications so any discrepancy and your ruled out.

JustAThought

acorntoast wrote: »

OMM is correct here. I work as the HR administrator for a multinational and checking references is one of my jobs. We wouldn't proceed with an application if the job title didn't match - especially something as big as changing trainer to analyst! We would consider that a serious attempt at deception.

So you clearly have had no experience of the problem that many people have had - taking one job and ending up doing an entirely different one because of internal movement or HR inaptitude to deal with issues and then discriminating against them for being flexible and entraped.

Akrasia

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sounds like data interpretation to me:

converting what was being done by hand into formulae in the spreadsheets, to take into account the individual cases ....

They also had to review the work documentation across all the company, to ensure that the spreadsheets matched the documentation, and update the documentation to match changes made in policies over the last 5 years.


Administrators bang stuff in to spreadsheets.

Analysts design and sometimes implement formulae.

This sounds like a process analyst role (being charitable)

JustAThought

Akrasia wrote: »

This sounds like a process analyst role to me

Process controller perhaps. Its data checking really only at a slightly higher level - could get her/himself into trouble if they oversell their analytical. What are their qualifications OP?

Akrasia

Cyrus wrote: »

I’d go with data analyst or information services analyst something like that

Data analyst is a much more specialized role that could leave the OP struggling at interviews if they can’t justify it

Data analysts will have been creating data models and using software packages like power Bi or Tableau to present them to the business as reports

(Incidentally it’s actually really easy to learn the basics of Power BI so it’s definitely something that the OP should play around with so they can put it on their CV)

Akrasia

kenmm wrote: »

OP - Quoting myself here - but whats up with using the original job title and explaining the actual duties?



Every company is different and ther eis no universal rule. Some places will be very tight on job titles and others will allow a little bit of wiggle room.

Putting down p!ss taking titles that were clearly not done or using non standard words to big up a job is generally silly (discussed above), but not relevant here - the person was hired for a job that didn't materialise. Honesty in this case is the best policy, forget about all these other peoples experiences with different companies and hiring processes..

If the company is using an Application Tracking System then they will tag your application based on your job title and if it’s not a match they may never even read your cv or cover letter

If you write a cover letter that explains why your job title is not set in stone for the reasons you outlined in your OP it will cover yourself from accusations of trying to falsify your employment history

Clauric

Akrasia wrote: »

Data analyst is a much more specialized role that could leave the OP struggling at interviews if they can’t justify it

Data analysts will have been creating data models and using software packages like power Bi or Tableau to present them to the business as reports

(Incidentally it’s actually really easy to learn the basics of Power BI so it’s definitely something that the OP should play around with so they can put it on their CV)

Thanks for the advice here. Career wise, they are a business and data analyst. However, they are also an SME in the platform they were meant to be training people on. That was the main reason they were able to move quickly between he two roles.

Mrs OBumble

acorntoast wrote: »

OMM is correct here. I work as the HR administrator for a multinational and checking references is one of my jobs. We wouldn't proceed with an application if the job title didn't match - especially something as big as changing trainer to analyst! We would consider that a serious attempt at deception.

And if someone worked at a company which didn't have job titles, or which has some wacky naming convention (eg test-engineers are called quality-analysts or even worse everyone is just a "software team colleague") - you wouldn't consider they? You must be costing your company seriously when it comes to recruiting good talent.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Your CV doesn't describe what your job title was?

I feel there is some projecting going on here. I suspect you've made up job titles on your CV, but you don't want to admit that's lying.

Of course making up job titles on your CV is lying.

A CV is a document written to interest a potential employer in interviewing you. It should tell the truth, but be written in language which the employer will understand.

For some jobs:

• The most dumbed-down version of my CV says "made changes on the computer" and has no job title at all.
• The medium one says "IT project team member"
• The high end one says "Business systems analyst" - and only goes to employers who have an opinion(*) about what those words mean.

(*) Even then, I've found that the opinions vary widely between companies, and even between individual managers.




There is also an issue that in one eight year period, I worked in three different roles, but with seven different job titles due to restructuring - all in the one company. HR advice is to keep my CV to one or at most two pages. To do that, I need to have only one job-title to cover those eight years.

acorntoast

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And if someone worked at a company which didn't have job titles, or which has some wacky naming convention (eg test-engineers are called quality-analysts or even worse everyone is just a "software team colleague") - you wouldn't consider they? You must be costing your company seriously when it comes to recruiting good talent.

I'm sorry I made you so angry, I was only trying to explain my experience dealing with this issue as a HR administrator.

I work for a software multinational so I can answer your question. We hire QA Enginners but we would also interview people with experience as software testers, UAT testers, and automation engineers, and maybe some others I can't think of now. We would also interview XXX trainers if their cover letter or cv explained their QA experience.

OMM 0000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

A CV is a document written to interest a potential employer in interviewing you. It should tell the truth, but be written in language which the employer will understand.

For some jobs:

• The most dumbed-down version of my CV says "made changes on the computer" and has no job title at all.
• The medium one says "IT project team member"
• The high end one says "Business systems analyst" - and only goes to employers who have an opinion(*) about what those words mean.

(*) Even then, I've found that the opinions vary widely between companies, and even between individual managers.

There is also an issue that in one eight year period, I worked in three different roles, but with seven different job titles due to restructuring - all in the one company. HR advice is to keep my CV to one or at most two pages. To do that, I need to have only one job-title to cover those eight years.

This isn't about the difference between good and bad CVs.

This is about what job title should you put on your CV. Should it be:

a) Your job title

or

b) Your own definition of your job title

I fully accept you want to go down the dishonest route and change your job title to help you get a job.

I've already stated how this is supposed to be handled, someone from HR agreed with me, so I sense this is no longer a conversation and instead you trying to avoid learning something new or admit you made a mistake.

I obviously want nothing to do with that weak nonsense, so I'll let you be.

Mrs OBumble

acorntoast wrote: »

I'm sorry I made you so angry, I was only trying to explain my experience dealing with this issue as a HR administrator.

I work for a software multinational so I can answer your question. We hire QA Enginners but we would also interview people with experience as software testers, UAT testers, and automation engineers, and maybe some others I can't think of now. We would also interview XXX trainers if their cover letter or cv explained their QA experience.

Dunno where you got angry from.

A little exasperated that you're costing your company so dearly in terms of attracting good talent, by applying blinkered rules that really look at job titles instead of transferable skills and experience.

I'd expect that even an AI-based hiring robot would learn to be smarter than that.

OMM 0000

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Dunno where you got angry from.

A little exasperated that you're costing your company so dearly in terms of attracting good talent, by applying blinkered rules that really look at job titles instead of transferable skills and experience.

I'd expect that even an AI-based hiring robot would learn to be smarter than that.

She clearly stated they look beyond the job title - they look to see if people have the skills they need.

Why are you making up things and then attacking the thing you made up?

You keep doing this. What's going on?