Czech Republic vs ROI

Gone Drinking

My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

Coronavirus Cases Czech:
6,701
Deaths:
186

Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
15,251
Deaths:
610

Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4pm.
They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.

sterz

How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?

KindOfIrish

Gone Drinking wrote: »

My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

Coronavirus Cases Czech:
6,701
Deaths:
186

Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
15,251
Deaths:
610

Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

The actions I know they took that were ahead of different to us are:

They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4.
They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.

The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

Gone Drinking

sterz wrote: »

How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?

They have tested 168 thousand people in Czech. I don't know the number for Ireland, I'm sure someone here does.

Danno

sterz wrote: »

How many people have both countries tested? What are the criteria in order to qualify for a test? Has this criteria changed since testing began? Are deaths being recorded in the same way, as in are nursing home deaths included in the Czech figures?

The death numbers are the most important metric of how your polices are working. The Czechs are miles better than us in this regard.

Gone Drinking

KindOfIrish wrote: »

The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference.

But if it lessens the spread of the virus, therefore lessening the chance of it getting as far as someone who is at risk, it makes a huge difference no?

rn

If there's one thing to be learned from all this is lies, dam lies and statistics.

There's such a variation in test kit standards and the way cases are being selected and counted, it's almost impossible to do "real time" comparison.

In a year or two time someone will take the average death rates for March and April for European countries up to covid19 pandemic and see what's the relative increase for 2020. Then we'll have an idea of the scale per country.

road_high

I wonder did they go into full lockdown mode sooner and more rigidly than ireland?
Our societies are different I’m sure in how we interact in work and as families too. They’ve lived through full martial law in their not too distant past. An alien concept for us here

Gone Drinking

rn wrote: »

If there's one thing to be learned from all this is lies, dam lies and statistics.

There's such a variation in test kit standards and the way cases are being selected and counted, it's almost impossible to do "real time" comparison.

In a year or two time someone will take the average death rates for March and April for European countries up to covid19 pandemic and see what's the relative increase for 2020. Then we'll have an idea of the scale per country.

Yeah so you realize that if we wait until 2020 for the hard numbers, we miss a chance to make improvements on how we're lessening the impact right now? That's the whole point of using the data we have, which I admit is most likely not perfect. We have to take actions now and we can only do this with the data we have.

road_high

Gone Drinking wrote: »

But if it lessens the spread of the virus, therefore lessening the chance of it getting as far as someone who is at risk, it makes a huge difference no?

I’ve not bothered with masks at all. Wouldn’t even know where to buy one. It’s funny in a previous job I had no end of access to them and other ppe and ordered most of it for the team
I’d estimate I see maybe 20% or less wearing them around about

Gone Drinking

road_high wrote: »

I’ve not bothered with masks at all. Wouldn’t even know where to buy one. It’s funny in a previous job I had no end of access to them and other ppe and ordered most of it for the team
I’d estimate I see maybe 20% or less wearing them around about

Me either but that's the point, maybe we should have? Maybe they should be mandatory and widely available. If it had even a small chance to help things, why not do it?

road_high

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Me either but that's the point, maybe we should have? Maybe they should be mandatory and widely available. If it had even a small chance to help things, why not do it?

If the government want us to wear them they can send us out masks. I don’t know where to get them I’m assuming all the usual places would be sold out.
Not a fan of masks, find them very uncomfortable outside of what is absolutely necessary

mickdw

The experts claimed a mask could actually create issues re putting hands to face etc but i dont buy that. It is clear there were no masks in the country to allow widespread use. They didnt have enough for nurses nevermind every man woman and child and thst surely swayed the initial advice.
Anyone who can get their hands on a suitable mask, should wear it imo.

road_high

mickdw wrote: »

The experts claimed a mask could actually create issues re putting hands to face etc but i dont buy that. It is clear there were no masks in the country to allow widespread use. They didnt have enough for nurses nevermind every man woman and child and thst surely swayed the initial advice.
Anyone who can get their hands on a suitable mask, should wear it imo.

Where can you buy suitable masks? Everyone would need a packet each as they need to be disposed off regularly or else they become a potentially bigger source of infection

tdf7187

KindOfIrish wrote: »

The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

Your explanation makes sense, but stand by for a barrage of insults from the 'why do you hate old people' brigade on here, most of whom I'd wager have never done a thing for old people apart from posture on the internet.

Bsharp

Something that concerned me from the start of this pandemic is the prevalence of respiratory disease in ireland, when you read about it Ireland's death rate for these illnesses is almost 40% higher than the EU average. Not sure how this compares to Czech but it's not a good starting point no matter what way you look at it.

Binka

road_high wrote: »

Where can you buy suitable masks? Everyone would need a packet each as they need to be disposed off regularly or else they become a potentially bigger source of infection

All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly). I bought 2 to rotate. I am working from home so only go out once every two weeks.
I don't see the point in not wearing it as no scientist has come up with a definitive answer yet and some countries have proved that they make a difference. It doesn't bother me at all and I think a lot of people are embarrassed to wear them because it's not part of our culture to do so.

If it stops some of the droplets getting in and out, that's sounds good to me.

I have heard much talk of viral load as part of the reason there are varying symptoms.

I say keep your droplets to yourself!

tdf7187

Binka wrote: »

All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly). I bought 2 to rotate. I am working from home so only go out once every two weeks.
I don't see the point in not wearing it as no scientist has come up with a definitive answer yet and some countries have proved that they make a difference. It doesn't bother me at all and I think a lot of people are embarrassed to wear them because it's not part of our culture to do so.

If it stops some of the droplets getting in and out, that's sounds good to me.

I have heard much talk of viral load as part of the reason there are varying symptoms.

I say keep your droplets to yourself!

Do you have an existing condition?

Binka

tdf7187 wrote: »

Do you have an existing condition?

I do. I am diabetic so really wouldn't want to take any chances based on theories.

Donald Trump

Gone Drinking wrote: »

My other half is Czech so I've been following the progress of both countries. I was in Czech republic when the first case was announced, it was just before the first case was announced in the ROI.

Coronavirus Cases Czech:
6,701
Deaths:
186

Coronavirus Cases Ireland:
15,251
Deaths:
610

Czech Republic is landlocked, so they have a lot of people passing through, coming in from other EU nations etc. Also very popular tourist destination. They had more cases at the start than us, we only caught up with them a couple of weeks ago and we've now surpassed them hugely in terms of cases and deaths.

Czech has a larger population than Ireland (10m vs 5m) but a smaller land mass (78,000 vs 84,000 km²). They also have very similar traits to Ireland, as in they are very sociable people. They go out to drink a lot, gather to watch local sports (most towns have stadia).

Yet you look at our numbers vs theirs and its quite astonishing. My first thought was they aren't testing as many people as us but their death number is only a third of ours.

They went into a partial lock down quickly; pubs/restaurants needed to close by 4pm.
They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us (I'm going from memory here, if anyone's interested to get the firm numbers on the first two points).

The last point, which I genuinely think can't be ignored here; they made masks mandatory. Everyone had to wear masks when outside or in work. Even their TV presenters wore them. You were fined if found not wearing a mask.

I don't get why we haven't done this, even if it hasn't a scientific morsel of evidence to say it helps by a decent percentage, why not just do it anyway? It just makes no sense to me, we should have said "yeah, that might help. Let's cover our bases and make masks mandatory until we understand this thing better".

I personally think the biggest killer of this whole thing was an under reaction from the World Health Organization to begin with and many governments in Europe (Ireland included). If you overreact, you can later retract and apologise for inconvenience caused. Everyone was afraid to offend China's handling of the issue to begin with, then worried about hurting things economically (Which has happened 10 fold anyway). If everything was shutdown from the very get go; travel to and from China, non-essential European travel, shutdown of Ski resorts, sports etc, this may have been more manageable.

Everyone mostly decided the cautious "ah we'll see how it goes" route, which I hope will be a big learning for the world regarding pandemics in future.

First up, most important thing out of the way, congrats on the Czech wife. Does she have any nice sisters or young lady friends she can point in my direction?




Onto the meat of the issue, Czech Republic and Ireland were very close in the "rankings"/stats for the first couple of weeks (I noticed that because I have a good friend who lives there). In terms of numbers of infections that is. They managed to keep deaths to 0 for a fair bit longer. When I used to czech on worldometer (see what I did there?) they were hovering about 2 places ahead of Ireland. Well actually, they were next to Ireland in terms of infections for a while and then a couple of countries came in in the middle and then after another while Ireland eventually climbed over them.



From my recollection, the also closed their borders and stopped flights first and told all their citizens to come home immediately very early on. That might have even been before Italian rugby and Cheltenham.





The Czech people I have met have been very practical and responsible people. So I'd reckon that would have an impact too. I don't think you'd have the same "ah shure it'll be ok if just me doesn't follow the rules" kind of attitude that you'd see in some people here

the.red.baron

Slovakia are in a much better spot going by the stats


Check them out

Gone Drinking

Gone Drinking wrote: »

..........
They went into a full lock down maybe just under a week before us............

That's significant, hugely if true.
They didn't have thousands at Cheltenham either I would think.

rodDaly69

Danno wrote: »

The death numbers are the most important metric of how your polices are working. The Czechs are miles better than us in this regard.

Correct deaths are the most important number, but how are the Czech's declaring their covid deaths? Are they taking the Irish approach of declaring anyone who died while infected as a covid death, or the UK approach of only declaring covid positive deaths in certain circumstances?

MadYaker

KindOfIrish wrote: »

The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

Wearing masks make a big difference. All the countries that are doing well have mandated mask wearing

a_squirrelman

the.red.baron wrote: »

Slovakia are in a much better spot going by the stats


Check them out

Only testing about 3000 per day but they did shut down very early.

yosser hughes

Bsharp wrote: »

Something that concerned me from the start of this pandemic is the prevalence of respiratory disease in ireland, when you read about it Ireland's death rate for these illnesses is almost 40% higher than the EU average. Not sure how this compares to Czech but it's not a good starting point no matter what way you look at it.

Obesity is also an underlying condition. Our rate of obesity is amongst the highest in the world as far as I know.

Wibbs

MadYaker wrote: »

Wearing masks make a big difference. All the countries that are doing well have mandated mask wearing

In some ways I think that debate is pointless at this stage MY. There is a huge resistance to wearing masks here, for whatever reason, and even if you demonstrated the what should be very obvious risk reduction involved unless the authorities tell people to wear them it's not going to happen.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

In some ways I think that debate is pointless at this stage MY. There is a huge resistance to wearing masks here, for whatever reason, and even if you demonstrated the what should be very obvious risk reduction involved unless the authorities tell people to wear them it's not going to happen.

Not least because, in my local Chemist, they're 2 euro a mask, which is designed for 1 use only- it's like that you should re-use it every day.

Wibbs

Binka wrote: »

All of the pharmacies in my local town last week had face masks for sale at varying prices (as with sanitizer the prices vary wildly).

They're selling them and hand sanitiser in a few Spar shops in Dublin anyway. IIRC twelve quid for ten.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

Not least because, in my local Chemist, they're 2 euro a mask, which is designed for 1 use only- it's like that you should re-use it every day.

Oh I hear that, but if you're not an essential worker you're only going shopping a couple of times a week for an hour at most, if you're a really slow shopper, then rotating them will get you far more use than two goes.

the.red.baron

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Only testing about 3000 per day but they did shut down very early.

deaths are all that matters



what are they doing right that the Czechs are doing wrong

rn

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Yeah so you realize that if we wait until 2020 for the hard numbers, we miss a chance to make improvements on how we're lessening the impact right now? That's the whole point of using the data we have, which I admit is most likely not perfect. We have to take actions now and we can only do this with the data we have.

Absolutely we must gather and use data. And it's very useful to see what techniques are being used to curb the disease in other countries.

My point only relates to comparing statistics across countries. The real statistics that can be compared won't be known until afterwards and they are the ones analysing deaths. Testing appears to be non uniform across the world.

suicide_circus

Danno wrote: »

The death numbers are the most important metric of how your polices are working. The Czechs are miles better than us in this regard.

Czechmate

Manach

On masks, my understanding is that there is a lot of advice pro/anti. Personally I might wait, unless there is definitate ruling either way, until after the lockdown where I'm on public transport again.

On comparisions with other countries, I think at a high level it is worth doing. The country I've paid attention to is Singapore ,due to its population size similar to Ireland ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Singapore )
Given their low death rate (11), I'd say there is sometime deeply wrong with the upper levels of the Health organisations in this country.

BanditLuke

mickdw wrote: »

The experts claimed a mask could actually create issues re putting hands to face etc but i dont buy that. It is clear there were no masks in the country to allow widespread use. They didnt have enough for nurses nevermind every man woman and child and thst surely swayed the initial advice.
Anyone who can get their hands on a suitable mask, should wear it imo.

The single biggest advantage of wearing a mask is that it prevents you from touching your nose and mouth. It's unbelievable so little people are wearing them and one of the reasons we will move out of the soft lockdown slower than most.

Wibbs

Manach wrote: »

On masks, my understanding is that there is a lot of advice pro/anti. Personally I might wait, unless there is definitate ruling either way, until after the lockdown where I'm on public transport again.

Well the way I look at it M is this; masks clearly work in reducing the risk of transmission in clinical settings and in home settings with infections present and are advised for both by the WHO/HSE/ECDC/CDC/every other collection of letters out there, even when they say they're unlikely to help beyond those areas. If they work in reducing risk there they will work in reducing risk in every enclosed shared space. Unless there's some magical difference going on, which there isn't. Plus every single nation that is doing better than us mandates their use in public shared spaces and European nations whos authorities also ignored their use are now using them as they try to get back to normal business.

On comparisions with other countries, I think at a high level it is worth doing. The country I've paid attention to is Singapore ,due to its population size similar to Ireland ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Singapore )
Given their low death rate (11), I'd say there is sometime deeply wrong with the upper levels of the Health organisations in this country.

Yep and never mind that Singapore's population density makes Ireland look barely inhabited by comparison. Even with that massive advantage and the advantage of lead time compared to Singapore our numbers are too high.

Wibbs

BanditLuke wrote: »

The single biggest advantage of wearing a mask is that it prevents you from touching your nose and mouth.

Actually the biggest advantage in the case of basic masks and surgical masks is that it massively reduces the droplets expelled towards other people and onto surfaces. If everyone wore one the asymptomatic infected couldn't shed nearly as much viral load beyond themselves, plus the non infected wearing one would stop whatever remained getting into their airways which would reduce transmission in the community.

This vid shows the difference in droplets with a mask and no mask.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UASi5OUv9Pg

Go to 35 seconds in.

meeeeh

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Only testing about 3000 per day but they did shut down very early.

That is actually not bad considering the population and I get the results are back in a day which actually enables quick response.

Ireland messed up with testing, there is no point collecting 10k tests per day if you don't process them that day. Anyway Central European countries acted quickly and their numbers are low. I think it's also different organisation of care homes (yes they have them and there are issues there but there is less movement of staff). I know a bit about Slovenian response and it was better than Irish, health system in both countries has similar issues. BTW Slovenia banned public transport Czcecia only allows people who wear masks from beginning (reliance on cars is apparently the main reason why infections in Slovenia didn't spread more despite land border with Italy and people skiing there during school holidays). All those countries still have some production capacities where they can produce masks for general population so medically certified equipment is for professionals. Ireland can't demand people to wear masks because it can only import them (there is not enough home-made stuff) and general population would compete with first line staff for scarce resources.

I think some health and public sector infrastructure is better organised in those countries and it was suited to deal with pandemics. Besides commie states were paranoid about public risks and they loved drills how to organise population.

MadYaker

BanditLuke wrote: »

The single biggest advantage of wearing a mask is that it prevents you from touching your nose and mouth. It's unbelievable so little people are wearing them and one of the reasons we will move out of the soft lockdown slower than most.

And it also catches viruses that you breath or cough out. Seems a no brainier to me.

a_squirrelman

the.red.baron wrote: »

deaths are all that matters



what are they doing right that the Czechs are doing wrong

They weren't testing in nursing homes for a start. Which has led to the mayor of Bratislava to divert city funds into testing there since the state aren't helping.

So I wouldn't hold my breathe that they are reporting accurate death figures from them either.

We'll know more in a few weeks for sure.

listermint

OP i note you said Czech republic is land locked so it has alot passing through. but surely that does not mean alot staying or travelling.

Just 1 stat i noted, GDP per capita in Czech is around $33K and ireland circa $77K. We had alot of people going on far flung destinations and many travelling to heavily infected regions in Italy and Austrian ski resorts before and during when the virus kicked off (see the Ski forum for some of the idiocy that was going on there despite the warnings)

Im assuming Ireland had a far greater transmission rate due to travel and ability and means to do so.

ZeroThreat

I was comparing Ireland and Denmark a couple of weeks ago and we had roughly the same deaths per million - today we're over 600 deaths with Denmark at half of that.

We're doing quite poorly, even by abysmal euro standards.

Wibbs

listermint wrote: »

OP i note you said Czech republic is land locked so it has alot passing through. but surely that does not mean alot staying or travelling.

Just 1 stat i noted, GDP per capita in Czech is around $33K and ireland circa $77K. We had alot of people going on far flung destinations and many travelling to heavily infected regions in Italy and Austrian ski resorts before and during when the virus kicked off (see the Ski forum for some of the idiocy that was going on there despite the warnings)

Im assuming Ireland had a far greater transmission rate due to travel and ability and means to do so.

Actually the Czechs have over double the number of tourist traffic into their country than us and we're pretty high on that score. There was also a fair bit of travelling for matches and skiing in the lead up to their crackdown. Over twice the population with a similar ratio of olde people and our average age is around the same(early 40's IIRC) and they've also higher population densities and more people in apartments. Yet even if they were fudging their figures they'd have to by under reporting by a factor of about five to get to our mortality figures. They've even had recent days without a single death.

We are not doing so great at all. Sure compared to the UK yeah, but they're one of the sickest in Europe, after Spain and Italy.

Muahahaha

KindOfIrish wrote: »

The virus is practically harmless to majority of population. So wearing mask or not doesn't make any difference. The only factor in mortality rate are nursing homes. There are not many nursing homes in Czechia.

Sky News last night had a graph comparison on Czech and their next door neighbours Austria. At the start both countries closely tracked each other for cases/deaths. Then Czech ordered the entire public to wear masks, Austria did not. Within a week Austrian numbers began to spike upwards whereas Czech numbers remained flat. Then 10 days after the Czechs ordered wearing of masks Austria then followed suit, within a week Austrian cases went back down to match Czech levels again.

Its not conclusive that the masks were the reason why but one thing we know is Czech were the fastest out of the traps to order them plus they have some of the lowest numbers in Europe.

MadYaker wrote: »

Wearing masks make a big difference. All the countries that are doing well have mandated mask wearing

Definitely seems that way to me, South Korea another country all wearing masks, Taiwan the same

FreshCoffee

Muahahaha wrote: »

Sky News last night had a graph comparison on Czech and their next door neighbours Austria. At the start both countries closely tracked each other for cases/deaths. Then Czech ordered the entire public to wear masks, Austria did not. Within a week Austrian numbers began to spike upwards whereas Czech numbers remained flat. Then 10 days after the Czechs ordered wearing of masks Austria then followed suit, within a week Austrian cases went back down to match Czech levels again.

Its not conclusive that the masks were the reason why but one thing we know is Czech were the fastest out of the traps to order them plus they have some of the lowest numbers in Europe.

Definitely seems that way to me, South Korea another country all wearing masks, Taiwan the same

I saw that segment on Channel 4 news last night. It was very interesting. You can see the segment here:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1169&v=fPrETlGYMuE&feature=emb_logo

I have always been pro-mask and cannot understand the counter arguments. We don't need a committee of specialists endlessly waiting to collect all the data they need so they can prove thay were wrong in the first place. It's as obvious as the nose on your face that if everyone wears a mask it will reduce the spread.

Posted in another thread
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200407/doctors-puzzle-over-covid19-lung-problems

Is protocol driven ventillation doing more harm than good and is the centre in the article in central europe with zero ICU deaths in the Czech Republic by any chance?

I fear physicians in Ireland are often too afraid to break from protocol due to the litigation culture and I hope this is not preventing us from trying different treatment options

NH2013

FreshCoffee wrote: »

I saw that segment on Channel 4 news last night. It was very interesting. You can see the segment here:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1169&v=fPrETlGYMuE&feature=emb_logo

I have always been pro-mask and cannot understand the counter arguments. We don't need a committee of specialists endlessly waiting to collect all the data they need so they can prove thay were wrong in the first place. It's as obvious as the nose on your face that if everyone wears a mask it will reduce the spread.

I believe the counter argument to masks and the reasons we have not been yet ordered to wear them is that we don't produce them, so the supply we do have should be saved and used where they will have the most effect, and in Ireland's cases our supplies of masks should be used in hospitals and nursing homes by medical staff and patients.

If we get to a place where we can produce enough for the general population then I believe the advice will change and they'll be required on public transport etc, but until that point it makes no sense to have a run on the national supply of masks and end up leaving our healthcare workers without protection, as they are the ones most likely to contract the virus.

FreshCoffee

NH2013 wrote: »

I believe the counter argument to masks and the reasons we have not been yet ordered to wear them is that we don't produce them, so the supply we do have should be saved and used where they will have the most effect, and in Ireland's cases our supplies of masks should be used in hospitals and nursing homes by medical staff and patients.

If we get to a place where we can produce enough for the general population then I believe the advice will change and they'll be required on public transport etc, but until that point it makes no sense to have a run on the national supply of masks and end up leaving our healthcare workers without protection, as they are the ones most likely to contract the virus.

A few weeks ago I think it was Sean O'Rourke on RTE interviewed an Irish man living in the Czech Republic about their compulsory masks. He explained that you couldn't buy a mask there but the population got behind it and with instructions published in the media a small cottage industry developed with people making their own masks, masks for their family, neighbours etc. It was also allowed to go out if you covered your mouth and nose with eg a scarf.

Of course there are people will sneer at this. Today we reported 77 deaths, the Czech Republic reported 2.

Spring Celebrator

Copy paste from another thread
Slovakia
Restaurants bars etc closed from 16.3
Mandatory 14 days ´home´ quarantine for people coming from abroad from 14.3.
Masks mandatory from 25.3., although people wore it from 9ish of March, Prime minister and president wore them from 13.3.
Mandatory quarantine in state accomodations for people coming from abroad from 6.4.
Lockdown from 8.4.
1173 infected, 13 deaths, 47000 tests (now at around 2000-3000/day), 251 recovered.
Mandatory quarantine in state accomodations for people coming from abroad from 6.4.
IMHO masks helped a lot but the quarantine was the game changer. Most of infected people in Slovakia are citizens coming from abroad.

Spring Celebrator

Also ffp2 ffp3 masks are not sold to citizens. Those masks are reserved for the health sector. After the elections, the new government found the state emergency equipment warehouses empty (kindly ´donated´ to china). Most citizens are wearing home made masks.

Tigerandahalf

Are there any figures for the amount of deaths in Ireland that occured in nursing homes? There does appear to be clusters in them.

A lot of nursing homes and hospitals rely on agency staff and this could add to the spread of the virus. An agency nurse could be in 5 different nursing homes in a week.

Other countries may not have their elderly in nursing homes but cared for at home by family members.