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Degiro vs trading212(invest)

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Comments

  • #62
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    JackieChang wrote: »
    Are the above points a bad thing? I'm an investment n00b so I can't tell.

    Neither good nor bad, just differences compared to an ETF.

    If I had to summarise the impact of those differences in one sentence: with an ETF tracker you are passively following the average trend of stock markets, whereas with a trust your are relying on the long term investment strategy of a fund manager (or a team of them) who is charging a fee (usually rather reasonable fee when it comes to investment trusts). So with no pun intended: there is an element of trust in the second scenario whereas you believe the fine manager is good enough to beat the market by more than the fee they are charging.


  • #63
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭in2dark


    Looks like the pie is not available to my account:-(
    Pity it is a great idea...


  • #64
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    in2dark wrote: »
    Looks like the pie is not available to my account:-(
    Pity it is a great idea...

    taking into account everything stated before, pie is a nightmare considering Irish Tax system...


  • #65
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭in2dark


    iAcesHigh wrote: »
    taking into account everything stated before, pie is a nightmare considering Irish Tax system...

    If you recalibrate yes, but if you just buy each week or month? Very very handy


  • #66
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    in2dark wrote: »
    If you recalibrate yes, but if you just buy each week or month? Very very handy

    The problem is still very much there when selling as you need to use first in, first out system and trillion small investments make that extra hard on paperwork. extra hard... Especially if you do it after few years and you were buying it on regular basis...


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  • #67
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭in2dark


    the problem remains that i dont have the option on the app :(


    as I said before I am not planning to sell, just keep on buying....


  • #68
    JackieChang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    in2dark wrote: »
    the problem remains that i dont have the option on the app :(


    as I said before I am not planning to sell, just keep on buying....

    Did you sign up for the beta?

    I got it already. I guess they're ironing out a few bugs before they release it to the rest of the beta group.


  • #69
    in2dark
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭in2dark


    JackieChang wrote: »
    Did you sign up for the beta?

    I got it already. I guess they're ironing out a few bugs before they release it to the rest of the beta group.

    This explains then... Thanks. Did now


  • #70
    iAcesHigh
    Registered Users Posts: 447 ✭✭iAcesHigh


    in2dark wrote: »


    as I said before I am not planning to sell, just keep on buying....

    even worse, as one day, when you do decide to sell you'll have huuuuuuuge tax reporting "issue" :) Just run through comments before...


  • #71
    JackieChang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    If I get a job up the north can I become a UK tax resident? Seriously thinking of tax "avoidance" (not evasion) down the line due to this potential arse raping from Revenue.


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  • #72
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    JackieChang wrote: »
    I've just found out about a thing called an investment trust. They are not taxed like ETFs, but they are almost the same thing.

    For example, Scottish Mortgage (confusing name) investment trust has holdings in Tesla, Amazon etc.

    As far as I can tell there's none of the 8 year deemed disposal bullshyt like the ETFs.

    Probably a better way to invest. There are a few of them on Trading 212.

    Check out Scottish Mortgage, Smithson and Allianz Technology.

    Detailed info on them here: https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/find-compare-investment-companies?type=Filter&sort=10sptr&az=&country=&region=&objective=&sector=&manager=

    They all seem to be in GBP. Couldn't find any euro ones.

    They do look interesting. What's the implication currency wise though?
    We would have to convert Euro to STG, and then for example the Smithson half the investment would be STG/USD, and when you want to cash out, it's STG back to Euro.

    Seems volatile on the surface or perhaps it's a good thing having investments in other currencies.


  • #73
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Saudades wrote: »
    They do look interesting. What's the implication currency wise though?
    We would have to convert Euro to STG, and then for example the Smithson half the investment would be STG/USD, and when you want to cash out, it's STG back to Euro.

    Seems volatile on the surface or perhaps it's a good thing having investments in other currencies.


    Besides minor currency conversion costs when you buy shares in the trust, this makes no difference.

    The reference always is the currency of the underlying assets anyway (regardless of owning Microsoft shares directly, through an ETF denominated in EUR, or though a trust denominated in GBP, those shares are valued in USD anyway).


  • #74
    JackieChang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    Saudades wrote: »
    They do look interesting. What's the implication currency wise though?

    No idea. It's probably less efficient than investing directly into the list of companies.

    The reason I'm doing this is because I got bored of watching individual stocks. Had about 30 in my portfolio at one stage.

    So now I let Scottish mortgage do it for me. If it costs a bit of FX then so be it. There's also a management fee to consider.

    Another reason is I get exposure to big names that aren't available to the average Joe. For example, via Scottish mortgage I am holding SpaceX. And Palantir, that mysterious AI firm that will be IPO-ing soon.


  • #75
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    JackieChang wrote: »
    No idea. It's probably less efficient than investing directly into the list of companies.

    The reason I'm doing this is because I got bored of watching individual stocks. Had about 30 in my portfolio at one stage.

    So now I let Scottish mortgage do it for me. If it costs a bit of FX then so be it. There's also a management fee to consider.

    Another reason is I get exposure to big names that aren't available to the average Joe. For example, via Scottish mortgage I am holding SpaceX. And Palantir, that mysterious AI firm that will be IPO-ing soon.

    Interesting. Yes I'm tempted with the SMT and the Smithson myself (and the Fundsmith but that's classed as ETF).


  • #76
    JackieChang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    Saudades wrote: »
    Interesting. Yes I'm tempted with the SMT and the Smithson myself (and the Fundsmith but that's classed as ETF).

    Definitely have a Google around about SMT. There are discussions about them on Reddit and I think money saving expert. There are pros and cons.

    For example one con to be aware of is the amount of unlisted companies they hold. They're not on any stock exchange yet, so it's bordering on venture capitalism.

    They've some German "Uber for the skies" company in their holdings. SMT believe airplane taxis will be a thing in the future. You might not agree with that.

    About 20% of their holdings are these unlisted companies. However I think they held Amazon and Tesla when they were unlisted back in the day and they bet correctly on them exploding in value. Future growth seems to be their thing. So they get in early.


  • #77
    FrankGrimes
    Registered Users Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    Have seen a lot of good mentions online about Scottish Mortgage fund and would like to add it to my portfolio. What’s the best way to buy into it based in Ireland (don’t see it in Degiro, are there other broker options or best to go direct)?
    JackieChang wrote: »
    Definitely have a Google around about SMT. There are discussions about them on Reddit and I think money saving expert. There are pros and cons.

    For example one con to be aware of is the amount of unlisted companies they hold. They're not on any stock exchange yet, so it's bordering on venture capitalism.

    They've some German "Uber for the skies" company in their holdings. SMT believe airplane taxis will be a thing in the future. You might not agree with that.

    About 20% of their holdings are these unlisted companies. However I think they held Amazon and Tesla when they were unlisted back in the day and they bet correctly on them exploding in value. Future growth seems to be their thing. So they get in early.


  • #78
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    FrankGrimes wrote: »
    Have seen a lot of good mentions online about Scottish Mortgage fund and would like to add it to my portfolio. What’s the best way to buy into it based in Ireland (don’t see it in Degiro, are there other broker options or best to go direct)?

    It is like any public company listed on the London stock exchange, should be available from any broker including DEGIRO (I do see it on my DEGIRO). You are typing SMT and nothing comes up?

    Also for the better or the worse the fund is heavily loaded with Tesla and internet/tech giants (just 2 stocks - Tesla and Amazon - are 20% of the total holdings, which is *very* high concentration for a fund). This largely explains the great performance even throughout the Covid period, but it also means it is heavily exposed if those start correcting.


  • #79
    salmagoo
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭salmagoo


    Supercell wrote: »
    Its here - https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gifts-and-inheritance/transfering-an-asset/selling-or-disposing-of-shares.aspx



    Basically they are penalising you for taking a loss quickly, or are strong believers that "time in the market beats timing the market". Rebalancing pies will be a total nightmare with these rules as would adding to or selling them. I have left my pies and am just not gong to touch for a while.

    This isn't actually true! The reason the 4 week rule came in was so that in the scenario that an employee is entitled to RSUs there is an acquisitions of lets 10 shares at 100 each which amounts to 1,000. Then the employer immediately disposes of some of these shares (about 5*100=500) to pay for tax at the marginal rate. The remaining proceeds is deposited to the employee on their payslip.

    This rule was introduced this so that there is no gain/no loss in this scenario to avoid complications regarding FIFO for employers and only relates to that same class of share.

    I hope this makes sense.


  • #80
    salmagoo
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭salmagoo


    JackieChang wrote: »
    @Supercell they are rolling out a new feature which will allow you to create your own mini ETFs and automatically deposit into them. It's called autoinvest and should be coming out in a few weeks. I think it's in beta stage now for a select few.

    One thing I'll add for anybody thinking of signing up... DO NOT TOUCH the "CFD" platform until you've spent ages reading up about what they are. You can loose hundreds of euros in seconds. Once you've read up on them, spend a few months on their practice account if you really want to try it.

    Thanks so much for this! This is exactly what I have been looking to do! Such a great thread! Yes the CGT calc would be a PAIN but worth it I think! I've been trying to find a way to beat this 41% exit tax with ages.


  • #81
    Colin B
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Colin B


    Great thread!looks like UK trust (Scottish Mortgage, etc)are the way to go instead of EFT for the Irish , to simplify tax complications and still diversify!so euro to sterling exchange is the only thing that's variably from our side, fund management and dollar exchange costs are all included in share prices??then more simple/cheaper CGT calculations at the end


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  • #82
    JackieChang
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭JackieChang


    Just to add that Scottish mortgage would be one of the more risky funds.

    If this is too risky, you could look at Bankers Investment Trust as well. Still fairly tech heavy, but has more stable "blue chip" companies.

    Their top 10 holdings along with % weightings:

    1 MICROSOFT CORP 2.80
    2 AMAZON.COM INC 2.20
    3 APPLE INC 2.10
    4 ESTEE LAUDER COMPANIES INC 2.10
    5 VISA INC 1.90
    6 ADOBE INC 1.80
    7 MASTERCARD INC 1.80
    8 ALPHABET INC 1.60
    9 AMERICAN TOWER CORP 1.60
    10 FACEBOOK INC 1.60

    More info: https://www.trustnet.com/factsheets/t/he03/the-bankers-investment-trust


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