Easter holidays work?

foxes

Hi - probably only get the usual teacher bashers but...
I'm currently teaching for an ETB, dealing with marginalised adults many with housing/addiction and mental health issues. My manager is continuing with online Zoom meetings for staff during the Easter break. Stressed that it is at our 'discretion' and also stressed that those choosing not to 'engage' could find themselves redeployed to HSE. Some teachers are seeing that as a threat.
There's many instances of 'off the cuff' comments about staff members absent from meetings for various reasons (childcare, lack of internet and resources mainly) with comments like they'll be lucky to be still working when its all over.
Colleagues in other centres on same programme told they will only be contacted in case of emergency over holidays.
How are other teachers, schools and ETB's managing the Easter break?

TheDriver

foxes wrote: »

Hi - probably only get the usual teacher bashers but...
I'm currently teaching for an ETB, dealing with marginalised adults many with housing/addiction and mental health issues. My manager is continuing with online Zoom meetings for staff during the Easter break. Stressed that it is at our 'discretion' and also stressed that those choosing not to 'engage' could find themselves redeployed to HSE. Some teachers are seeing that as a threat.
There's many instances of 'off the cuff' comments about staff members absent from meetings for various reasons (childcare, lack of internet and resources mainly) with comments like they'll be lucky to be still working when its all over.
Colleagues in other centres on same programme told they will only be contacted in case of emergency over holidays.
How are other teachers, schools and ETB's managing the Easter break?

There is no work during Easter. I wouldn't expect staff to check emails or be in contact with students. Flip side of this is the expectation to be in contact and work during regular time.
I have heard of some ETBs instructing schools and centres that there is to be no work during the 2 weeks of Easter.
What you have written doesn't sound right.

Rosita

There appears to be an assumption in my school that Easter holidays are just that.....holidays. And in fairness prior to that there had been a similar situation to normal school i.e. an assumption that you had things under control and were coping well unless it emerged otherwise.

If there's one positive thing in all of this (and there isn't really) I think the social distancing will cut put a lot of time-consuming box-ticking nonsense creating policies and plans on everything under the sun and we should be allowed get back to basics.

killbillvol2

Rosita wrote: »

If there's one positive thing in all of this (and there isn't really) I think the social distancing will cut put a lot of time-consuming box-ticking nonsense creating policies and plans on everything under the sun and we should be allowed get back to basics.

Really? I'd say we all know a principal who's currently thinking about new policies to get started on after this.

Social Distancing Policy
Hygiene Policy
Pandemic Policy

I wish I was joking.

foxes

TheDriver wrote: »

There is no work during Easter. I wouldn't expect staff to check emails or be in contact with students. Flip side of this is the expectation to be in contact and work during regular time.
I have heard of some ETBs instructing schools and centres that there is to be no work during the 2 weeks of Easter.
What you have written doesn't sound right.

The Driver - you're right, it doesn't sound right but it is unfortunately true.

mirrorwall14

Edit: I’m hormonal and grumpy. No. We’ve had no contact

TheValeyard

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Edit: I’m hormonal and grumpy. No. We’ve had no contact

Eat more Easter eggs!!

km79

This is exactly how I seen the proposal for “voluntary” contact in June /July and classroom instruction in July going
“Local” arrangements will not work
Need to be clear universal guidelines from the minister

Rosita

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Really? I'd say we all know a principal who's currently thinking about new policies to get started on after this.

Social Distancing Policy
Hygiene Policy
Pandemic Policy

I wish I was joking.

I don't envisage spending two Croke Park hours in a room with a bunch of other teachers writing out a hygiene policy as I had to do with other stuff. Instead I expect we'll actually have to do stuff instead of just writing it down for fear of an inspection.

Treppen

foxes wrote: »

Hi - probably only get the usual teacher bashers but...
I'm currently teaching for an ETB, dealing with marginalised adults many with housing/addiction and mental health issues. My manager is continuing with online Zoom meetings for staff during the Easter break. Stressed that it is at our 'discretion' and also stressed that those choosing not to 'engage' could find themselves redeployed to HSE. Some teachers are seeing that as a threat.
There's many instances of 'off the cuff' comments about staff members absent from meetings for various reasons (childcare, lack of internet and resources mainly) with comments like they'll be lucky to be still working when its all over.
Colleagues in other centres on same programme told they will only be contacted in case of emergency over holidays.
How are other teachers, schools and ETB's managing the Easter break?

What does your union say. They should have your back if your manager has explicitly stated (record what their saying or snapshot of email) that you will be punished for not working during your holidays.
You need to contact other like minded staff and encourage them to not engage.

emilymemily

You wont be redeployed. There are currently thousands of people out of employment that will be redeployed before working teachers. They have even retracted their plans to redeploy SNA's. To be quite honest I cant see them redeploying anyone, they had 10's of thousands of volunteers willing to work for the HSE, they have more than enough workers.
We were told not to send work over the Easter break and to view this time as a normal mid term break. Your principal is there to manage the school and staff during school time. Scheduled mid terms and holidays are not part of that school time.

bobbyss

TheDriver wrote: »

There is no work during Easter. I wouldn't expect staff to check emails or be in contact with students. Flip side of this is the expectation to be in contact and work during regular time.
I have heard of some ETBs instructing schools and centres that there is to be no work during the 2 weeks of Easter.
What you have written doesn't sound right.

Which ETBs specifically?

mirrorwall14

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Edit: I’m hormonal and grumpy. No. We’ve had no contact

Turns out my grumps were totally justified. No replies to emails, no contact for the whole break. Then got an email this evening saying go live with our exam classes (I have three) at least once a week. I’ve already recorded all my lessons for next week and I have two kids to mind. I’m absolutely spitting fire here

RealJohn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Turns out my grumps were totally justified. No replies to emails, no contact for the whole break. Then got an email this evening saying go live with our exam classes (I have three) at least once a week. I’ve already recorded all my lessons for next week and I have two kids to mind. I’m absolutely spitting fire here

I’m not trying to be antagonistic here, but what are you “spitting fire” over? Going live with your exam classes at least once a week seems more than reasonable, unless they mean during the summer.
I fully intend to go live with my exam classes every day we’re due to have class for the next six weeks, whether they engage or not.

The only thing you’re entitled to be annoyed about, in my opinion, is if you’re expected to go live on video, in which case, I recommend that you figure out the best way to give whoever told you to do so a two fingered salute (in the most tactful way you can think of).
We do have six weeks of teaching left though, and our students (all of them, not just exam classes) are entitled to be taught for those six weeks.

My apologies if I’ve picked up the wrong impression here.

mirrorwall14

RealJohn wrote: »

I’m not trying to be antagonistic here, but what are you “spitting fire” over? Going live with your exam classes at least once a week seems more than reasonable, unless they mean during the summer.
I fully intend to go live with my exam classes every day we’re due to have class for the next six weeks, whether they engage or not.

The only thing you’re entitled to be annoyed about, in my opinion, is if you’re expected to go live on video, in which case, I recommend that you figure out the best way to give whoever told you to do so a two fingered salute (in the most tactful way you can think of).
We do have six weeks of teaching left though, and our students (all of them, not just exam classes) are entitled to be taught for those six weeks.

My apologies if I’ve picked up the wrong impression here.

I respectfully completely disagree. I have two children to mind. One does not take naps. I cannot guarantee to go live with my classes as per the school timetable. I currently work 7-after 10 every night to make this work and try to reply to questions during the day while minding my kids. We voted against requiring this as a staff.

And it’s google meet within google classroom. So that’s video right?

I had planned on trying to be live with my sixth years where possible but there are limits to what I can do. And even trying to get everything prepared, recorded and corrected is already a mountain of work

r93kaey5p2izun

RealJohn wrote: »

I’m not trying to be antagonistic here, but what are you “spitting fire” over? Going live with your exam classes at least once a week seems more than reasonable, unless they mean during the summer.
I fully intend to go live with my exam classes every day we’re due to have class for the next six weeks, whether they engage or not.

The only thing you’re entitled to be annoyed about, in my opinion, is if you’re expected to go live on video, in which case, I recommend that you figure out the best way to give whoever told you to do so a two fingered salute (in the most tactful way you can think of).
We do have six weeks of teaching left though, and our students (all of them, not just exam classes) are entitled to be taught for those six weeks.

My apologies if I’ve picked up the wrong impression here.

Teachers cannot be expected to be able to live teach unless their employer can provide a suitable environment in which to do it, even aside from any childcare issues. The teacher is responsible for anything students are exposed to during the lesson. Many many young teachers are house sharing with all sorts of people, and are living in environments that are just wholly unsuitable for live teaching - quite a number of those subbing are even room sharing. What if your housemate decides to shout obscenities in the background? Even if just on audio it will be an issue. I live with an abusive mentally ill family member who would do this frequently. I only teach adults right now, but no way will I take that risk. Unless management can provide a way to overcome this problem, then they cannot insist on live teaching.

RealJohn

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I respectfully completely disagree. I have two children to mind. One does not take naps. I cannot guarantee to go live with my classes as per the school timetable. I currently work 7-after 10 every night to make this work and try to reply to questions during the day while minding my kids. We voted against requiring this as a staff.

And it’s google meet within google classroom. So that’s video right?

I had planned on trying to be live with my sixth years where possible but there are limits to what I can do. And even trying to get everything prepared, recorded and corrected is already a mountain of work

I appreciate all of that, and in fairness, I imagine your principal ought to be able to accept that that’s the case for some teachers, but that being said, you’re not being asked to go live as per the timetable. You’re being asked to go live once a week.
I’m not going to ask about your family situation, but I imagine most people can ask their husband/wife/whoever to look after the kids for 40 minutes per exam class, per week. Exceptions would obviously have to be made for those who can’t.

Google meet doesn’t have to be video, by the way. I use it on my desktop PC with no camera even installed, but you could also disconnect/disable the camera, or simply cover it with a bit of tape, if you’re not very tech-savvy (and some would argue that that’s the safest way anyway).

I’m sympathetic to the workload. We’re all in the same boat there, but I think we do have to attend to our responsibilities as teachers to the maximum extent possible too. I’m not saying you’re not, just to be clear.

RealJohn

Breanna Ambitious Tyrant wrote: »

Teachers cannot be expected to be able to live teach unless their employer can provide a suitable environment in which to do it, even aside from any childcare issues. The teacher is responsible for anything students are exposed to during the lesson. Many many young teachers are house sharing with all sorts of people, and are living in environments that are just wholly unsuitable for live teaching - quite a number of those subbing are even room sharing. What if your housemate decides to shout obscenities in the background? Even if just on audio it will be an issue. I live with an abusive mentally ill family member who would do this frequently. I only teach adults right now, but no way will I take that risk. Unless management can provide a way to overcome this problem, then they cannot insist on live teaching.

You can go live without having your camera or mic on.

r93kaey5p2izun

RealJohn wrote: »

You can go live without having your camera or mic on.

What's the point? How is it different to providing recorded lessons and being available to answer queries as needed?

RealJohn

Breanna Ambitious Tyrant wrote: »

What's the point? How is it different to providing recorded lessons and being available to answer queries as needed?

Because you are still available to answer queries as needed, both by email and via google hangouts or whatever you’re using. You can still type responses.

mirrorwall14

RealJohn wrote: »

I appreciate all of that, and in fairness, I imagine your principal ought to be able to accept that that’s the case for some teachers, but that being said, you’re not being asked to go live as per the timetable. You’re being asked to go live once a week.
I’m not going to ask about your family situation, but I imagine most people can ask their husband/wife/whoever to look after the kids for 40 minutes per exam class, per week. Exceptions would obviously have to be made for those who can’t.

Google meet doesn’t have to be video, by the way. I use it on my desktop PC with no camera even installed, but you could also disconnect/disable the camera, or simply cover it with a bit of tape, if you’re not very tech-savvy (and some would argue that that’s the safest way anyway).

I’m sympathetic to the workload. We’re all in the same boat there, but I think we do have to attend to our responsibilities as teachers to the maximum extent possible too. I’m not saying you’re not, just to be clear.

Actually we are being asked to go live as per the school timetable, at least once a week.

I'm going to bow out of this conversation because I'm stressed enough as it is but just to be clear, I am fulfilling my responsibility to the absolute best of my ability. I've been over and back 50+ times with individual exam students. I reply to every damn query and correction and work every hour I can. I've recorded individual responses to students because both music and maths are visual subjects. I just cannot guarantee to be online/available at particular times because my household situation does not permit it.

However, my point remains, if teaching live and being completely available at a particular time was to become a requirement I needed to know so I could apply for parental leave as it is not possible in my house. Telling us on a Friday evening when most people I would imagine have already planned (or in my case already recorded!) the week out is just not fair.

Looptheloop30

It's all on YouTube lads.

Some of ye are mad to reinvent the wheel

byhookorbycrook

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

km79

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

Outrageous and I’m pretty sure illegal
It is always why I fear seeing the words “local arrangements” in the finalized Exam agreement

mirrorwall14

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

That seems spectacularly ill-advised to be honest

Dr Turk Turkelton

Could the teachers that can't work from home due to kids/ family members/ roommates go to the school and get a classroom to themselves?
I can't imagine any Principle having a problem with that?

mirrorwall14

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Could the teachers that can't work from home due to kids/ family members/ roommates go to the school and get a classroom to themselves?
I can't imagine any Principle having a problem with that?

And do what with the children.... As far as I'm aware this was allowed until the more recent shut down. If my creche was open I'd have used it

r93kaey5p2izun

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Could the teachers that can't work from home due to kids/ family members/ roommates go to the school and get a classroom to themselves?
I can't imagine any Principle having a problem with that?

At the moment no. School buildings must remain closed since the lockdown started. They were available from the time schools closed until the lockdown but not any more.

killbillvol2

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

Mad. She claimed to have special permission from the Gardai and was caught out on that too. Nice atmosphere there when they reopen.

r93kaey5p2izun

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

She should be sanctioned legally and by her employer. She is a disgrace.

amacca

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

Twit. Should know better if you are in management.

Treppen

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Slightly off topic but what about this?A primary principal asking her staff to travel to school during the lockdown and Easter Holidays. She wanted the staff of the Gaelscoil in Mullingar in yesterday at 9am.


https://tuairisc.ie/imni-ar-mhuinteoiri-faoi-chruinniu-foirne-i-ngaelscoil-trath-a-bhfuil-cosc-ar-a-leitheid/

When they get there they'll be given 'lollipops'.

Just ... You know... To get the Covid out of the way so they'll be ready to go after the Easter holidays are over .