Is it legal for Ryanair to limit it's vouchers to 1 year

paddy19

Is it legal for Ryanair to limit it's vouchers to 1 year under Consumer Protection (Gift Vouchers) Act 2019.

The act limits an expiry date to a minimum of 5 years.

Aer Lingus, not noted for generosity in their terms and conditions, have a 5 year expiry period.

Before anyone says it's only gift vouchers the the act states:

‘gift voucher’ means, subject to subsection (2), any voucher, coupon or
other document or instrument, including in electronic form, that is
intended to be used as a substitute for money in the payment, in whole
or in part, for goods or services or otherwise exchanged for goods or
services;

I don't see how airlines are excluded under section 2.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/142/

Mike3549

paddy19 wrote: »

Is it legal for Ryanair to limit it's vouchers to 1 year under Consumer Protection (Gift Vouchers) Act 2019.

The act limits expiry date to a minimum of 5 years.

Aer Lingus, not noted for generosity in their terms and conditions, have a 5 year expiry period.

Before anyone says it's only gift vouchers the the act states:

‘gift voucher’ means, subject to subsection (2), any voucher, coupon or
other document or instrument, including in electronic form, that is
intended to be used as a substitute for money in the payment, in whole
or in part, for goods or services or otherwise exchanged for goods or
services;

I don't see how airlines are excluded under section 2.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/142/

Where do you get this 1 year nonsense?

Gift vouchers are valid for 5 years from the voucher issue date and can be redeemed here on www.ryanair.com or www.laudamotion.com
https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/gift-vouchers/terms-and-conditions

paddy19

Mike3549 wrote: »

Where do you get this 1 year nonsense?

Gift vouchers are valid for 5 years from the voucher issue date and can be redeemed here on www.ryanair.com or www.laudamotion.com
https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/gift-vouchers/terms-and-conditions

Nonsense is right, nonsense from Ryanair.

Irish Times quoting Ryanair email.

"In recent days, however, the airline’s position appears to have shifted: Irish Times readers report receiving Ryanair emails that say the airline cannot process refunds until after pandemic has subsided, and the best passengers affected by the mass cancellation of flights can hope for is a voucher valid for 12 months."

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/europe/coronavirus-ryanair-suspends-refunds-and-offers-passengers-vouchers-instead-1.4225203

EverythingGood

Happy to get a gift voucher for a year as long as I could use it on any route, for any person.

Allinall

paddy19 wrote: »

Nonsense is right, nonsense from Ryanair.

Irish Times quoting Ryanair email.

"In recent days, however, the airline’s position appears to have shifted: Irish Times readers report receiving Ryanair emails that say the airline cannot process refunds until after pandemic has subsided, and the best passengers affected by the mass cancellation of flights can hope for is a voucher valid for 12 months."

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/europe/coronavirus-ryanair-suspends-refunds-and-offers-passengers-vouchers-instead-1.4225203

I’d sooner believe the Terms and Conditions from the company’s website, rather than a third hand report from a newspaper.

Del2005

I've a ferry booked with Brittany Ferries and they have it on their website that the voucher will only be for a year. When they send me the email cancelling I'll point out the 5 years or look for a refund.

https://www.brittanyferries.ie/information/faqs/travelling/coronavirus-covid-19

Mike3549

paddy19 wrote: »

Nonsense is right, nonsense from Ryanair.

Irish Times quoting Ryanair email.

"In recent days, however, the airline’s position appears to have shifted: Irish Times readers report receiving Ryanair emails that say the airline cannot process refunds until after pandemic has subsided, and the best passengers affected by the mass cancellation of flights can hope for is a voucher valid for 12 months."

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/europe/coronavirus-ryanair-suspends-refunds-and-offers-passengers-vouchers-instead-1.4225203

I get it, its not a GIFT voucher, its more like a store credit that is valid for 12 months. You can get a full refund alright, but it will take quite a long time.

paddy19

EverythingGood wrote: »

Happy to get a gift voucher for a year as long as I could use it on any route, for any person.

These vouchers are normally limited to the named passengers.
You need to reads the terms and conditions very carefully.
They will follow them to the letter.

Once you acccept a voucher you are struck with it.

paddy19

Allinall wrote: »

I’d sooner believe the Terms and Conditions from the company’s website, rather than a third hand report from a newspaper.

The Terms and conditions you quoted are for gift vouchers purchased from Ryanair.

The vouchers on offer via email are subject to the terms and conditions outlined in the email. These trump any published conditions.

Basic common law: offer and acceptance.

The offer and conditions outlined in the email are what you are accepting.

killbillvol2

paddy19 wrote: »

The Terms and conditions you quoted are for gift vouchers purchased from Ryanair.

The vouchers on offer via email are subject to the terms and conditions outlined in the email. These trump any published conditions.

Basic common law: offer and acceptance.

The offer and conditions outlined in the email are what you are accepting.

What's in the email? Can you quote it.

Limpy

paddy19 wrote: »

The Terms and conditions you quoted are for gift vouchers purchased from Ryanair.

The vouchers on offer via email are subject to the terms and conditions outlined in the email. These trump any published conditions.

Basic common law: offer and acceptance.

The offer and conditions outlined in the email are what you are accepting.

So basically dont take the offer as it's only for one year. Or take the offer if you plan to travel this year via Ryanair.

If none of the above take a cash refund and wait.

Lex Luthor

Limpy wrote: »

So basically dont take the offer as it's only for one year. Or take the offer if you plan to travel this year via Ryanair.

If none of the above take a cash refund and wait.

thats what I plan to do is wait it out for my refund

I wouldnt be in the position to fly in the next 12 months anyway and as my son is sitting his leaving cert next year we generally skip that year for going away as it means going in high season with crowds and more cost

we had planned a big holiday this year but due to this its being canned

my only gripe is that the accom didnt honour our deposit to give us credit for what we paid

paddy19

Limpy wrote: »

So basically dont take the offer as it's only for one year. Or take the offer if you plan to travel this year via Ryanair.

If none of the above take a cash refund and wait.

This is what I don't understand.
You are entitled to a cash refund.

Why would you accept a voucher where you loose all your money if you don't adhere to whatever crappy conditions the airline dreams up.

People seem to think that vouchers are the same as hard cash.
They are not, you are tied to one airline, one route and only named passengers.

How can anyone predict what they will or will not want in the next 12 months?

If you have free money send it on to me, I'd love to get a loan where I pay no interest and the money is mine after 12 months.

Living Off The Splash

EverythingGood wrote: »

Happy to get a gift voucher for a year as long as I could use it on any route, for any person.

But....if the cost of the flight has increased you have to pay the difference. Many people nabbed a bargain flight.....they might not be happy to take a more expensive flight.

.G.

There's no official T+Cs document with the email. Just a link to "useful information" so we can assume these are the condtions you agree to if you accept the voucher.

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/refund-voucher

They aren't calling them gift vouchers either so that probably covers them to apply whatever terms and conditions they like to it. If you accept the voucher you accept the limits. Everything is going to get more expensive in the new post covid world as business try to recoup the losses incurred.

Gael23

Technically you have 2 years to use it. You must book a flight within 12 months but you don’t have to travel within that time

maestroamado

Gael23 wrote: »

Technically you have 2 years to use it. You must book a flight within 12 months but you don’t have to travel within that time

Correct i have a AF voucher from before Covid and this is what the t&c are.
This 261 is an EU thing and it seems reasonable to me....

.G.

Depends on how far ahead you can book your flights, Usually you will not be able to book a flight next April for the following April for example. Especially with Ryanair, they don't do their schedules that far in advance.

mikemac2

paddy19 wrote: »

If you have free money send it on to me, I'd love to get a loan where I pay no interest and the money is mine after 12 months.

You must have posted that 20 times in the last 10 days

You and others were asked by the mods in aviation forum to stop repeating the same posts

Collie D

I got the voucher today. Am I right in saying there’s an opt out (apply for the refund) but no opt in?

So what’s to stop anyone from holding the voucher for say 6 months and then applying for the refund? Or is there a closing date to apply that I missed?

paddy19

mikemac2 wrote: »

You must have posted that 20 times in the last 10 days
You and others were asked by the mods in aviation forum to stop repeating the same posts

The good folks on the aviation forum seem to be a tweetch sensitive to criticism of the airline industry. That is probably understandable for folks who like all things aviation.

I'm surprised that the travel forum seem to be taking their direction from the aviation folks.

I have put a lot of time adding value to these forums.
I have highlighting the various options that passengers have to get their hard earned money back from the airlines.

The sheer audacity of the airline industry is breathtaking.

The airlines are breaking the law. EU261 Article 8.

People are looking for their legally entitled refunds and are been pressurised to take "vouchers" with very limiting conditions.

Here is my problem, the word "voucher" is used by the airlines because it sounds like they are doing you a favour.
It sounds like it's a nice flexible option that they are bestowing on you out of the goodness of their hearts.

I am continually trying to explain that airlines are asking you for an interest free loan where you loose your money
after a year unless you follow very specific terms and conditions.

This is a much more accurate description of what is going on here than "voucher".

These aren't vouchers these are "financial handcuffs".

Would it help if I used the words financial handcuffs?

paddy19

Collie D wrote: »

I got the voucher today. Am I right in saying there’s an opt out (apply for the refund) but no opt in?

So what’s to stop anyone from holding the voucher for say 6 months and then applying for the refund? Or is there a closing date to apply that I missed?

That's really a really good point, you can hold the voucher and still apply for a refund up to 6 years from the flight date under Irish Law.

I'm not sure there is any great advantage and some small risk that an airline could go whollop. In which case your in the queue with the other creditors.

Collie D

paddy19 wrote: »

That's really a really good point, you can hold the voucher and still apply for a refund up to 6 years from the flight date under Irish Law.

I'm not sure there is any great advantage and some small risk that an airline could go whollop. In which case your in the queue with the other creditors.

Well my thinking behind it is that I have other refunds pending but some of them are for multiple passengers. For the multiple passenger bookings I’ll definitely be going the refund route as the others have paid me so I now owe them a portion of the refund and can’t split a voucher.

I’m happy to hold the voucher I have which is for a booking for just myself. If/when I receive cash on the multi passenger refunds I’ll know they’re back to normal and cash in my voucher but also have the option of using it should I need to book anything in the meantime. Applying for refund on that now leaves me without either cash or voucher.

paddy19

Collie D wrote: »

Well my thinking behind it is that I have other refunds pending but some of them are for multiple passengers. For the multiple passenger bookings I’ll definitely be going the refund route as the others have paid me so I now owe them a portion of the refund and can’t split a voucher.

I’m happy to hold the voucher I have which is for a booking for just myself. If/when I receive cash on the multi passenger refunds I’ll know they’re back to normal and cash in my voucher but also have the option of using it should I need to book anything in the meantime.

Applying for refund on that now leaves me without either cash or voucher.

Your logic is impeccable.... you now have the best of both worlds!

Small risk that the Airline goes wallop and you are just a creditor.
You could stick a note in the diary to check the 120 day rule from flight date for chargeback.

Collie D

Somebody at Ryanair must have read my post. :pac:

Got another voucher today for a different booking and this time the email does have an opt-in link to accept. In the queue for live chat now - I'm working on the laptop anyway so can wait

kenmm

Collie D wrote: »

Somebody at Ryanair must have read my post. :pac:

Got another voucher today for a different booking and this time the email does have an opt-in link to accept. In the queue for live chat now - I'm working on the laptop anyway so can wait

I got the same email just there..

Mine seems to be opt-out (of the voucher) but made to look opt in. The email has the voucher number etc and the link is just to general customer service to ask for my refund (even although I already filled out the refund request form).

BlondeBomb

I received the voucher email from Ryanair 3 weeks after initiating the refund request.

If I ignore the email will they proceed with my refund request?

I tried to start the refund request again but I got a pop up saying it’s already been done.

Is it a case of sitting and waiting?

The email seemed to suggest if the voucher isn’t accepted that I would have to do something to get refund but no solid information.

Thanks

paddy19

BlondeBomb wrote: »

I received the voucher email from Ryanair 3 weeks after initiating the refund request.

If I ignore the email will they proceed with my refund request?

I tried to start the refund request again but I got a pop up saying it’s already been done.

Is it a case of sitting and waiting?

The email seemed to suggest if the voucher isn’t accepted that I would have to do something to get refund but no solid information.

Thanks

Ryanair are just trying to confuse into accepting the voucher.
They have to get your written agreement under EU261 to accept a voucher instead of a cash refund.
If your not in a hurry you'll get your money when Michael O'Leary decides that Covid-19 has abated.

If you need the money you can process a claim in the Swords Small Claims Court. €25 non refundable fee, all online, no lawyer required.

see guide https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058071799

Regulator is free and slow:

https://www.flightrights.ie/home/complaint-procedure.452.html

You claim for money is valid for 6 years.

Hopefully it won't take that long!

Living Off The Splash

I only got the email about the cash refund.

I never got the follow up email saying that I would be now getting a voucher.

Anyone else in the same boat?

limabromac

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

I only got the email about the cash refund.

I never got the follow up email saying that I would be now getting a voucher.

Anyone else in the same boat?

When did you receive the first email?

There's a 20 day gap between the first refund email and then the automatic voucher email

Limpy

They will refund eventually. When air travel returns the average paddy won't sit idly by and watch Ryanair return to normality, while MOL is sitting on their cash. All it takes is one protest or for people to line up in tbe check in que demanding the cash back.

vandriver

You can still use the voucher even if you have asked for a refund.

Gael23

Do these vouchers have to be used all at once or can you use a portion and keep the rest for another time?

Paulownia

I have gift vouchers and they expire in June and it’s unlikely that I’ll be going anywhere before that and I’m sure Ryanair will try to say that they have expired by the time I get to use them. Already when I had one for 500 and I booked a flight they told me that I had used it up because it was for only one flight and I took them to the small claims court and they sent me vouchers for the balance of the amount just before the case came up

EverythingGood

Gael23 wrote: »

Do these vouchers have to be used all at once or can you use a portion and keep the rest for another time?

T&C's state they can be used partially, and you retain the "change" for future use, they can be used for flights and ancillary services like baggage and priority but not carhire or hotels. They can be used for any person, and not just who the original ticket was booked for.

paddy19

EverythingGood wrote: »

T&C's state ... They can be used for any person, and not just who the original ticket was booked for.

"Can I give my voucher to my family member or a friend?
You can pay for multiple travel companions as our voucher offers great travel flexibility. "

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/refund-voucher

Ryanair do not want you to be able to sell the voucher.

Ryanair dictate the person who booked the flight must be one of the passengers when the voucher is used.

By contrast Aer Lingus allowed a name change.

You could get around this by using the voucher and the booking passenger not turning up. So you could sell say a voucher for 5 passengers as 4 passengers.

Each ticket is individual so nothing stopping other "companions" travelling without the original booking traveller. But obviously you loose one fare.

spurious

paddy19 wrote: »

Ryanair dictate the person who booked the flight must be one of the passengers when the voucher is used.

My proposed voucher when it came was in the name of a passenger, not me, the person who paid for the flights.
I can't use it.

paddy19

spurious wrote: »

My proposed voucher when it came was in the name of a passenger, not me, the person who paid for the flights.
I can't use it.

You could travel, as a companion, with the person who paid for the original ticket.

More, the joys of restrictive vouchers!

This is why free name change is critical.

Cash is best of all!

spurious

I paid for the original ticket.

I have been trying to get this Latvian mother and child home for ages. They couldn't get a seat on the Dublin repatriation flights and any others the embassy have offered have been from places she can't get to like Amsterdam, not to mention the 500 euro per person (including the 3 year old) prices. We are on our fourth booked flight now, due to go May 15th with Ryanair. We will see.

Still waiting on refunds from Air Baltic for an earlier cancelled booking on the same route.

paddy19

https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/refund-voucher


Refund Update

The processing time for cash refunds is taking far longer than normal as we are processing over 1,000 times the normal volume of cancellations. We also have 75% fewer staff available to process refunds due to social distancing restrictions.

Ryanair is offering vouchers and free moves as these are automated and give customers an immediate alternative. Unfortunately, cash refunds cannot be automated. Customers who choose a voucher, but don't redeem it within 12 months may still apply for and obtain a refund after this 12 month period.

Customers who choose not to accept a free move or voucher will receive their refund in due course, once this crisis has passed. Over the coming weeks and months, we will be working hard to process refund requests as quickly as we can.

Padraig Mor

paddy19 wrote: »

Ryanair is offering vouchers and free moves as these are automated and give customers an immediate alternative. Unfortunately, cash refunds cannot be automated.

Your nose is growing longer Pinnochio O'Leary!

It's quite clear what's happening here at this stage, and is as I suspected. In common with some other travel companies Ryanair will not be refunding anyone for 12 months - they might not say that directly yet, but I'd bet that will be the reality. All of this (as in travel companies generally) has clearly been arranged with governments and the EU on a nod and wink basis in the corridor.

paddy19

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Your nose is growing longer Pinnochio O'Leary!

It's quite clear what's happening here at this stage, and is as I suspected. In common with some other travel companies Ryanair will not be refunding anyone for 12 months - they might not say that directly yet, but I'd bet that will be the reality. All of this (as in travel companies generally) has clearly been arranged with governments and the EU on a nod and wink basis in the corridor.

In fairness the EU has told the airlines to refund per the law. It's our very own dynamic duo of Heather Humphrey and Shane Ross
who are nodding and winking with the rest of the politicians.

The big question is why the supposed regulator accepts this illegal activity by Ryanair and Michael O'Leary.

O'Leary could process every booking in 72 hours if the regulator imposed a penalty of €100 per day per refund.

limabromac

Have sent my chargeback to AIB since last week..no word yet..
Have also sent a complain to the aviation regulator... Will update as soon as I hear...
Have sent complaints to Ryanair but as of yet no one has responded... One a week for 5 weeks...
Ryanair have nearly 1000e of our money so would love it back...

Has anyone heard back from the SCC to confirm their case will go ahead and their 25e had been taken from their account??

dory

Please use the one refund thread. We don't have time to be dealing with the multiple reports on all the threads!