Alleged sexual harassment

Grab All Association

One of the people I follow on Twitter retweet’s this

https://twitter.com/emma_curran2104/status/1245412523937054722?s=21

It’s only one side to the story but as usual everybody on there is taking it as the absolute truth. No production of the alleged email or any indication that a complaint was made to An Garda Síochána about the alleged behaviour. Other than posting people’s names online and then taking them down. I’m not buying this at all. If NUIM really did send her an email then they were probably right.

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Grab All Association

Grab All Association wrote: »

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Exactly right.

razorblunt

Is that McCabe's alt account?

B.A._Baracus

Anyone can say anything online and there's an awful lot of bull****ters in this world. So go figure.

On a sidenote, I see she has the whole "she/her" gender identifying bit on her Twitter bio. Honestly when I see that, especially young people, I do raise an eyebrow. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if anyone glanced at her shed consider that sexual harassment :pac:

Only my two cents.

SEPT 23 1989

Can we have a bit of background to this

Cee-Jay-Cee

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Anyone can say anything online and there's an awful lot of bull****ters in this world. So go figure.

On a sidenote, I see she has the whole "she/her" gender identifying bit on her Twitter bio. Honestly when I see that, especially young people, I do raise an eyebrow. I wouldn't be surprised to hear if anyone glanced at her shed consider that sexual harassment :pac:

Only my two cents.

Yeah she’s one of the snowflake generation that looks for offence in everything. Thinks the world owes her something yet has contributed nothing to it herself.

She should be told to GFY we have more important things to be worried about right now but come back in a few years time and someone might care (but doubtful)

EmmetSpiceland

Jesus, lads, hold off on your “condemnations”.

This thread could be shipped over to the “Current Affairs” forum at some point and if it turns out her, alleged, attacker is black, brown, muslim or, better yet, an “asylum seeker” who’s had appeal after appeal rejected, you’ll regret jumping in so fast.

Obviously, if it turns out it was just an, ordinary, Irish, or white foreign, student you can go back to casting “aspersions” on this girl, women in general, and millennials as a whole.

Sometimes it’s better to just hold the dogs back, lads, you might just get the “reward” you’re after.

Stateofyou

Wow, sexual harassment has never happened on a university campus before! It's not like they're known to be rife with this sort of thing and is actually a huge problem or anything...why would she be believed, I mean it's common place and false allegations are actually statistically rare, but you know, allegedly this happened... Sure she just wanted to start trouble and bring on huge stress in her life during an already very stressful time, just for the fun... :rolleyes:

Colleges wouldn't want to be known for their campus' being unsafe, so they have an interest right there in keeping it quiet. Since when do Guards investigate sexual harassment? As far as I know schools will have policy's to deal with students and misconduct, guards are there for serious crimes. Anyone who was sexually harassed or assaulted has a right to speak up about it. Why do you care so much, OP? Does women speaking up worry you? Do you have more sympathy for abusers and/or condoners being named and shamed than you do victims?

Sexual harassment is not a crime.
Why would Gardai be involved?

It's up to the workplace, university etc to investigate a claim of sexual harassment

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly right.

Exactly wrong

Quantum Erasure

"I’m terribly sorry for disappointing you but I was sexually harassed, harassed, blackmailed, and manipulated: I’m not shutting up about it. (5/5)"

...still none the wiser as to what actually happened

Quantum Erasure

bubblypop wrote: »

It’s the responsibility of An Garda Síochána to investigate and the state to convict/absolve people of crimes, not mobs on Twitter.

Exactly wrong

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

Quantum Erasure

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

No.
But Gardai investigate crimes. & there are plenty of crimes to investigate.
Sexual harassment is not a crime

EmmetSpiceland

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Jesus, lads, hold off on your “condemnations”.

This thread could be shipped over to the “Current Affairs” forum at some point and if it turns out her, alleged, attacker is black, brown, muslim or, better yet, an “asylum seeker” who’s had appeal after appeal rejected, you’ll regret jumping in so fast.

Obviously, if it turns out it was just an, ordinary, Irish, or white foreign, student you can go back to casting “aspersions” on this girl, women in general, and millennials as a whole.

Sometimes it’s better to just hold the dogs back, lads, you might just get the “reward” you’re after.

Shoehorning in some social justice "virtue signalling" there. Impressive, if not utterly predictable.

Stateofyou

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

so, it's mob justice on twitter so?

She's made a decision to speak up. Where would you prefer she do that, on a street corner for the 2 people passing by? Millions of people have spoken up on social media about their harassment/assault experiences. People speaking up and not tolerating sh*t being swept under a rug is what is finally changing things in that regard in society for the better. Maybe the school will cop on and deal with it properly in future instead of victim shaming. The end result will be a more comfortable and safer campus for students.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

She's made a decision to speak up. Where would you prefer she do that, on a street corner for the 2 people passing by? Millions of people have spoken up on social media about their harassment/assault experiences. People speaking up and not tolerating sh*t being swept under a rug is what is finally changing things in that regard in society for the better. Maybe the school will cop on and deal with it properly in future instead of victim shaming. The end result will be a more comfortable and safer campus for students.

Victim shaming? Jesus. Is that what you think this is?

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Victim shaming? Jesus. Is that what you think this is?

The school's email, yes.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

The school's email, yes.

Oh did you read it? Will you send me a link to it? I looked for it on her Twitter but couldn't see it. I just saw her response to them, not the actual email.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh did you read it? Will you send me a link to it? I looked for it on her Twitter but couldn't see it. I just saw her response to them, not the actual email.

So- she made up the email and the direct quote, for what, for fun?
And she made this up too?
"Since then I had spoken with people in
@MaynoothUni
and I was told that this was all essentially MY fault;"

No one has to bring the receipts of their experience to you or anyone else. Sexual harassment and assault and that shaming of those who speak up happens with or without proof. I'll go with the standard, on the balance of probabilities, it happened, for 500 euros Bob.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

So- she made up the email and the direct quote, for what, for fun?
And she made this up too?
"Since then I had spoken with people in
@MaynoothUni
and I was told that this was all essentially MY fault;"

No one has to bring the receipts of their experience to you or anyone else. Sexual harassment and assault and that shaming of those who speak up happens with or without proof. I'll go with the standard, on the balance of probabilities, it happened, for 500 euros Bob.

Ah right ok.

I wasn't looking for her receipt. I was just looking for evidence. It's odd she would publish her response to the email and not the email itself.

It's not shaming to not believe an accusation without proof.

But if she sees herself as a victim, I guess that's good enough for you. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

Im not saying she is lying but I also wouldn't be so quick to accuse any person or entity of victim shaming without proof.

I'll go with the standard, it's not shaming someone to not automatically believe their claims, for 500 Bob.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah right ok.

I wasn't looking for her receipt. I was just looking for evidence. It's odd she would publish her response to the email and not the email itself.

It's not shaming to not believe an accusation without proof.

But if she sees herself as a victim, I guess that's good enough for you. Your opinion is as valid as mine.

Im not saying she is lying but I also wouldn't be so quick to accuse any person or entity of victim shaming without proof.

I'll go with the standard, it's not shaming someone to not automatically believe their claims, for 500 Bob.

Receipt = evidence in my example. And yeah, that's what you were looking for. It's not odd for anyone to speak up and in doing so to summarise, paraphrase, leave out every detail, etc. Jesus...

I did not say that it was shaming to not believe an accusation without proof. I said that the school's treatment of her is shaming.

Yeah, if she speaks up about her experience which is brave to do in that circumstance, and tags her own university, I am going to believe it. See my previous post where I said statistically false allegations are rare. Universities, schools and workplaces are rife with this behaviour. Victim shaming is a very typical response. That is the society that we've all been living in for a very long time. This isn't news to anyone.

hatrickpatrick

|NUIM| 20 she/her

'Nuff said

Raconteuse

I usually despise when people are dismissed if they say they were sexually harassed. I also despair of the way it has become fashionable to be suspicious of women in this regard, due to the false allegations that it's claimed are going on morning, noon and night... however I also object hugely to using social media to point fingers, and to damage an organisation's reputation. I find it highly dubious that NUIM would have said they were disappointed with the woman. Show the email then.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Receipt = evidence in my example. And yeah, that's what you were looking for. It's not odd for anyone to speak up and in doing so to summarise, paraphrase, leave out every detail, etc. Jesus...

I did not say that it was shaming to not believe an accusation without proof. I said that the school's treatment of her is shaming.

Yeah, if she speaks up about her experience which is brave to do in that circumstance, and tags her own university, I am going to believe it. See my previous post where I said statistically false allegations are rare. Universities, schools and workplaces are rife with this behaviour. Victim shaming is a very typical response. That is the society that we've all been living in for a very long time. This isn't news to anyone.

No.

In this circumstance, this girl has taken to Twitter to accuse a university of something. She has not backed up her allegation but has instead put up her response to the email she said was received.

She doesn't have to. It would make sense to though. She obviously does not want to remain quiet about it and if her allegations are true, I don't blame her.

In this case, it isn't unreasonable to expect to see the letter so we can see clearly what was said especially if she is going to bandy around accusations and publish her rebuttal.

But to call someone brave like you did is to believe someone wholesale based on nothing but their perceived victimhood. Victim creating is as rife as victim shaming. Neither is a good look.

And as for this being the society we live in, please don't tell me you are one of those who think we live in a rape culture!?

hatrickpatrick

https://twitter.com/cinderelliexox/status/1232045094712303616

https://twitter.com/Emma_Curran2104/status/1232047281983152128

The deleted tweet containing the allegations was originally in between these two tweets in the thread.

Sounds very much like this is about lads (a) looking at women and (b) talking privately with other lads about women. Neither of these things should be grounds for penalty. People have private conversations which veer into rude territory about other people all the time, it's just how people are - and there is not a gender exclusivity about that, either. Talking about and rating other peoples' looks is something both genders do in groups literally all the time. In another tweet she mentions that someone took a creepshot of her - that's absolutely a fair thing to be angry about and something which absolutely should be dealt with by college authorities, but looking at someone sexually or making sexual remarks about them to others? That's life and there's nothing wrong with it.

Maybe I'm alone here but if I found out that a group of women or gay lads in a group chat were discussing whether or not I was sexy and what my best or worst features were, apart from being surprised at getting that kind of attention it wouldn't upset me, because people are people and expecting people not to look at other people sexually when it's one of the main things people think about every day is just bizarre.

Raconteuse

Grading looks is ****ing pathetic though. I've never ever done it.

But jeez people's private conversations cannot be policed.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

https://twitter.com/cinderelliexox/status/1232045094712303616

https://twitter.com/Emma_Curran2104/status/1232047281983152128

The deleted tweet containing the allegations was originally in between these two tweets in the thread.

Sounds very much like this is about lads (a) looking at women and (b) talking privately with other lads about women. Neither of these things should be grounds for penalty. People have private conversations which veer into rude territory about other people all the time, it's just how people are - and there is not a gender exclusivity about that, either. Talking about and rating other peoples' looks is something both genders do in groups literally all the time. In another tweet she mentions that someone took a creepshot of her - that's absolutely a fair thing to be angry about and something which absolutely should be dealt with by college authorities, but looking at someone sexually or making sexual remarks about them to others? That's life and there's nothing wrong with it.

Maybe I'm alone here but if I found out that a group of women or gay lads in a group chat were discussing whether or not I was sexy and what my best or worst features were, apart from being surprised at getting that kind of attention it wouldn't upset me, because people are people and expecting people not to look at other people sexually when it's one of the main things people think about every day is just bizarre.

If, and it's a big if, this is the extent of her allegations, it's ridiculous.

She has no right to police whether or not people find her attractive or not, or whether people look at her or talk about her to other people.

hatrickpatrick

Raconteuse wrote: »

Grading looks is ****ing pathetic though. I've never ever done it.

But jeez people's private conversations cannot be policed.

I agree it's pathetic, but it happens in the vast majority of groups of people who group themselves gender-exclusively. And as you say, a private conversation is a private conversation - unless the conversation contains evidence of an actual criminal offence, friends should have carte blanche to say whatever they want in private to one another.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

If, and it's a big if, this is the extent of her allegations, it's ridiculous.

She has no right to police whether or not people find her attractive or not, or whether people look at her or talk about her to other people.

If there's more to it and an actual assault took place, I agree entirely. But my reading of the thread and the other tweets in reply to both of those is that this is about things people said and not things people did.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

No.

In this circumstance, this girl has taken to Twitter to accuse a university of something. She has not backed up her allegation but has instead put up her response to the email she said was received.

She doesn't have to. It would make sense to though. She obviously does not want to remain quiet about it and if her allegations are true, I don't blame her.

In this case, it isn't unreasonable to expect to see the letter so we can see clearly what was said especially if she is going to bandy around accusations and publish her rebuttal.

But to call someone brave like you did is to believe someone wholesale based on nothing but their perceived victimhood. Victim creating is as rife as victim shaming. Neither is a good look.

And as for this being the society we live in, please don't tell me you are one of those who think we live in a rape culture!?

She may post the email at another time, but speaking up about the email and tagging her University, again, that's not going to be a lie someone does for no reason at all. If you look at that thread, there are comments from others about similar/worse experiences at University. I hope I'm saying this for the last time - false accusations are statistically rare, and this type of behaviour and response are rife and typical.
It is brave to speak up, and it's brave to do so against other's in positions of power such as their university. If she is speaking up about her experience, then it's not a perceived anything. Only to you it is.
I literally laughed at your last sentence there! So a global movement (metoo) isn't literally proof that we live in a society in which certain behaviours have been going on, excused, and literally slapped on the hand by the justice system and wider society, if at all? Okaaaay....

Stateofyou

Raconteuse wrote: »

I usually despise when people are dismissed if they say they were sexually harassed. I also despair of the way it has become fashionable to be suspicious of women in this regard, due to the false allegations that it's claimed are going on morning, noon and night... however I also object hugely to using social media to point fingers, and to damage an organisation's reputation. I find it highly dubious that NUIM would have said they were disappointed with the woman. Show the email then.

So that's a pretty big contradiction there, is it not? You say you despise people being dismissive and suspicious of women in this regard, then you go on to say you find it highly dubious that NUIM would have sent that email/said what they did, and looked for the proof. Why would you find it highly dubious? Is that not being dismissive and suspicious?

Stateofyou

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I agree it's pathetic, but it happens in the vast majority of groups of people who group themselves gender-exclusively. And as you say, a private conversation is a private conversation - unless the conversation contains evidence of an actual criminal offence, friends should have carte blanche to say whatever they want in private to one another.

Well it must not have been private, if she knew about what was happening and what was being said? She's obviously aware so there must be more to it. She's going to be picked apart in this and many will cut her down for speaking out and judge her experience having never walked in her shoes, saying things like, "well it wouldn't bother me..." That's also what makes her brave. She spoke up anyway.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

She may post the email at another time, but speaking up about the email and tagging her University, again, that's not going to be a lie someone does for no reason at all. If you look at that thread, there are comments from others about similar/worse experiences at University. I hope I'm saying this for the last time - false accusations are statistically rare, and this type of behaviour and response are rife and typical.
It is brave to speak up, and it's brave to do so against other's in positions of power such as their university. If she is speaking up about her experience, then it's not a perceived anything. Only to you it is.
I literally laughed at your last sentence there! So a global movement (metoo) isn't literally proof that we live in a society in which certain behaviours have been going on, excused, and literally slapped on the hand by the justice system and wider society, if at all? Okaaaay....

No. We don't live in a rape culture. Rape is not accepted. It is in plenty of countries around the world but I am confident to say that in Ireland, we do not have a rape culture.

I see plenty of quotes on her timeline too which ascribe "mysogynist" behaviour and "sexual harassment" to behaviours which may be unpolite, but certainly not warranting discipline.

It is not necessarily brave to make an accusation on twitter without backing it up with proof that if true, is readily available.

You say that she wouldn't lie about this, I'm saying she might. That's not shaming, that's being realistic.

Raconteuse

Stateofyou wrote: »

So that's a pretty big contradiction there, is it not? You say you despise people being dismissive and suspicious of women in this regard, then you go on to say you find it highly dubious that NUIM would have sent that email/said what they did, and looked for the proof. Why would you find it highly dubious? Is that not being dismissive and suspicious?

I strongly disbelieve that a university would write such a thing.

Stateofyou

Deleted User wrote: »

No. We don't live in a rape culture. Rape is not accepted. It is in plenty of countries around the world but I am confident to say that in Ireland, we do not have a rape culture.

I see plenty of quotes on her timeline too which ascribe "mysogynist" behaviour and "sexual harassment" to behaviours which may be unpolite, but certainly not warranting discipline.

It is not necessarily brave to make an accusation on twitter without backing it up with proof that if true, is readily available.

You say that she wouldn't lie about this, I'm saying she might. That's not shaming, that's being realistic.

Brock Turner. Rape is absolutely accepted. In Ireland, the culture of harassment/assault absolutely exists. Most employers now have Dignity at workplace policies for that reason, and legislation has come in to give legal recourse. There was recently a girl who was sexually assaulted and murdered by Boy A and Boy B, remember that? I read a post on here not too long ago full of posters here in Ireland saying every single woman friend/relative they know has experienced sexual harassment and or assault in their lives. Many perpetrators never have any real consequences. The CSO has the statistics anyone with google can review, and we all know that most cases go unreported or reported many years later, because victims don't feel safe or able to speak up. Because when they do, the typical responses of shaming and blaming and physical harm are the consequences.

Stateofyou

Raconteuse wrote: »

I strongly disbelieve that a university would write such a thing.

Okay, so you despise people (like yourself) who are dismissive and suspicious of women who speak up. And then you do that very thing. Doesn't make sense to me but here we are.

Raconteuse

Rape is really not accepted here.

And the Ana Kriegel case has been met with utter disgust and anger and dismay.

People posting that every woman they know has been sexually harassed or sexually assaulted does not mean rape is accepted here.

The Brock Turner case - one case - despicable but not evidence that rape is accepted in the western world.

Exceptions are not evidence of a broad trend.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Brock Turner. Rape is absolutely accepted. In Ireland, the same culture absolutely exists. Most employers now have Dignity at workplace policies for that reason, and legislation has come in to give legal recourse. There was recently a girl who was sexually assaulted and murdered by Boy A and Boy B, remember that? I read a post on here not too long ago full of posters here in Ireland saying every single woman friend/relative they know has experienced sexual harassment and or assault in their lives. Many perpetrators never have any real consequences. The CSO has the statistics anyone with google can review, and we all know that most cases go unreported or reported many years later, because victims don't feel safe or able to speak up. Because when they do, the typical responses of shaming and blaming and physical harm are the consequences.

Apologies,. I assumed you weren't one of those people.

The horrific case of Anna and the disgust and horror of the crime is proof that this behaviour is not accepted or deemed in any way acceptable.

You mentioned there are laws to prevent people being sexually harassed. Again further proof.

If most cases go unreported, then they aren't cases. It is anecdotal.

Blaming and shaming by your definition is not believing something without proof. You say that as if it is a bad thing. I do not think it is.

Do I think every woman is lying when they speak of a sexual assault? Not in any way. But do I believe every woman just because they say so? Again absolutely not.

But your lovely inference that people not believing the "victim" based on their say-so is proof of rape culture, is weak at best and insidious at worst.

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Okay, so you despise people (like yourself) who are dismissive and suspicious of women who speak up. And then you do that very thing. Doesn't make sense to me but here we are.

Try reading his/her post again.

Raconteuse

Stateofyou wrote: »

Okay, so you despise people (like yourself) who are dismissive and suspicious of women who speak up. And then you do that very thing. Doesn't make sense to me but here we are.

I am not dismissing her claiming she has been sexually harassed - I am suspicious of what she claims NUIM wrote to her though. And I dislike when people use social media in that way - and try to sully an organisation's name without evidence, particularly for something so serious.

hatrickpatrick

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well it must not have been private, if she knew about what was happening and what was being said? She's obviously aware so there must be more to it.

You do realise people can screenshot group chats, right? And even if it wasn't private, unless it was persistent after she'd asked for it to stop then it wouldn't be harassment and it certainly wouldn't be assault. Equating lewd comments with assault is one of the biggest blunders the #metoo movement has made, IMO, Nobody equates insults with physical assault, why should sexual remarks be equated with sexual assault?

She's obviously aware so there must be more to it. She's going to be picked apart in this and many will cut her down for speaking out and judge her experience having never walked in her shoes, saying things like, "well it wouldn't bother me..." That's also what makes her brave. She spoke up anyway.

She publicly shamed people who have never been found guilty of anything. The tweet was deleted but it can very much be presumed from the context of the surrounding tweets that the "evidence" she provided was a screenshot of a group chat of which she was not a member. So unless the messages actually detailed something done to her outside the group chat, they weren't something anyone should be getting in trouble for anyway.

Just to make it clear: I have absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for non-consensual sexual activity. Equating words somebody finds offensive with being touched without consent, however, is something which I find ludicrous (lewdicrous?) and I bitterly resent the fact that this is being normalised without question. People should have the right to say anything they like in private and that should be the end of it.

Raconteuse

Deleted User wrote: »

Try reading his post again.

Her.

As a woman I think it's absurd to view the western world as having a rape culture.

Raconteuse

Raconteuse wrote: »

Her.

As a woman I think it's absurd to view the western world as having a rape culture.

You caught me before the sneaky ninja edit. I thought I got away with it.

My apologies. The worst thing was I knew your sex!!! Ugh.

Stateofyou

Raconteuse wrote: »

Rape is really not accepted here.

And the Ana Kriegel case has been met with utter disgust and anger and dismay.

People posting that every woman they know has been sexually harassed or sexually assaulted does not mean rape is accepted here.

The Brock Turner case - one case - despicable but not evidence that rape is accepted in the western world.

Exceptions are not evidence of a broad trend.

Yes it was met with utter disgust and anger, etc. But there are boys growing up here who think it's okay to do things like this. To send dic* pics, to film sexual acts at concerts, there's no end to it. Boys and men also experience sexual harassment and assault. And Hello, the Catholic Church, anyone?
Broaden that back up from narrowing it down to rape being accepted here. It's the broader acceptability of sexual harassment and assault that's been allowed to go on, to be swept under the rug, to be trivialised as "just a joke," or good fun. Again, the metoo movement is global and Ireland is not untouched by that. We are not exceptional in that regard, the broad trend as you put it is very much alive here. The gov't has put out ad campaigns ffs. People I know personally who have been impacted: My mother. My sister. My wife. Her friends and family too. My cousin. Countless friends... who all have echo'd what I read on boards on that post not too long ago-they and most people they know have been affected too.

Again, workplace policies and legislation would also show that it's a problem here too, and there are things being done about it.

Raconteuse

The Catholic church is constantly torn to shreds over the abuse.

I find it insulting to the men in my life to view this culture as one which is accepting of rape.

Stateofyou

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

IMO, Nobody equates insults with physical assault, why should sexual remarks be equated with sexual assault?


Just to make it clear: I have absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for non-consensual sexual activity. Equating words somebody finds offensive with being touched without consent, however, is something which I find ludicrous (lewdicrous?) and I bitterly resent the fact that this is being normalised without question. People should have the right to say anything they like in private and that should be the end of it.

There's a spectrum of unacceptable behaviour, no one is equating anything? There are varying levels of severity and therefore, reactions or consequences. Any workplace policy or legislation I've read that describes unacceptable behaviour in regards to sexual harassment specifically says that it's the victim who decides what is unacceptable or offensive (which includes looks, gestures, words, etc). Someone would find it very difficult to defend their position in a sexual harassment allegation by saying well I have a right to say whatever I want.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion lads, its time for the leaba. Good sleep is very important these days!

Stateofyou

Stateofyou wrote: »

Yes it was met with utter disgust and anger, etc. But there are boys growing up here who think it's okay to do things like this.

Again, workplace policies and legislation would also show that it's a problem here too, and there are things being done about it.

There are people in Ireland who murder their parents. Do we live in a parental murder culture? Bizarre logic you are using to conflate the two.

So you are saying now that because laws are in place to ensure it doesn't happen, that's proof that it is accepted in our culture?

Or in your head does rape culture mean that some people are evil rapists and happen to live amongst us? Because if that is your definition, then yes ok.

My workplace also has terms about confidentiality and working for a competitor in my contract. Is that because we live in an espionage society?

hatrickpatrick

Stateofyou wrote: »

There's a spectrum of unacceptable behaviour, no one is equating anything? There are varying levels of severity and therefore, reactions or consequences. Any workplace policy or legislation I've read that describes unacceptable behaviour in regards to sexual harassment specifically says that it's the victim who decides what is unacceptable or offensive (which includes looks, gestures, words, etc). Someone would find it very difficult to defend their position in a sexual harassment allegation by saying well I have a right to say whatever I want.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion lads, its time for the leaba. Good sleep is very important these days!

I'm aware of the paradigm, I'm merely stating that I don't agree with it. Looks, gestures, words etc are not assault and only barely qualify as harassment if they're persistent and the person on the receiving end has made it known that they make that person uncomfortable. But again that's just my view.

Strumms

bubblypop wrote: »

Sexual harassment is not a crime.
Why would Gardai be involved?

It's up to the workplace, university etc to investigate a claim of sexual harassment

Are you sure about sexual harassment not being a crime ? I genuinely hadn’t an idea, I presumed it was but from some research I have confirmed it is. Pointless the girl shooting her mouth off about being sexually harassed and criticizing her college and their inaction yet she herself has done little or certainly not enough regarding following the correct process of complaining.

If it’s me, if I’m the victim of a crime in college or my workplace or sports team iim going to the college or managers and Gardai. The college people will sure have their ideas focused with a couple of detectives knocking asking for cctv etc.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Are you sure about sexual harassment not being a crime ? I genuinely hadn’t an idea, I presumed it was but from some research I have confirmed it is. Pointless the girl shooting her mouth off about being sexually harassed and criticizing her college and their inaction yet she herself has done little or certainly not enough regarding following the correct process of complaining.

If it’s me, if I’m the victim of a crime in college or my workplace or sports team iim going to the college or managers and Gardai. The college people will sure have their ideas focused with a couple of detectives knocking asking for cctv etc.

No, sexual harassment is not a crime.
Sexual assault is a crime.
If you are the victim of sexual harassment in the workplace or university or wherever, then you bring it to the authorities there.
Nothing to do with gardai

As you say, if you are the victim of a crime, then yes, absolutely bring it to the Gardai. Sexual harassment in the workplace is not a crime.

Strumms

bubblypop wrote: »

No, sexual harassment is not a crime.
Sexual assault is a crime.
If you are the victim of sexual harassment in the workplace or university or wherever, then you bring it to the authorities there.
Nothing to do with gardai

As you say, if you are the victim of a crime, then yes, absolutely bring it to the Gardai. Sexual harassment in the workplace is not a crime.

From the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission..


Under the Employment Equality Acts 1998-2015, sexual harassment and harassment of an employee (including agency workers and trainees) in the workplace are against the law. This includes sexual harassment and harassment by:

co-workers
the employer
clients, customers or other business contacts of the employer, including anyone the employer could reasonably expect the worker to come into contact with.