Movistar Netflix Documentary

Raymzor

Now available, 6 episodes 20 mins each.

What do you think of it!

I did not know it existed !!! Something to watch over the weekend so.

Randy Archer

:rolleyes:

Raymzor wrote: »

Now available, 6 episodes 20 mins each.

What do you think of it!

I read this somewhere. Couldn’t believe it would be true. Ah brilliant . Was liking the quick step wolf pack stuff (the cannondale rapha stuff was pretty pretentious as to be expected bar the Flanders episode ) all on YouTube

Great, going to get dug into this .hopefully is shows full on the rows between the three star men. Quintainia,for a small guy is suppose to have a big booming voice

Cheers for the heads up

dastardly00

Thanks for posting about this. Didn't know if existed. Something to watch while stuck inside

Randy Archer

Just finished it . It is excellent. Top quality production too. Won’t spoil it for anyone but I can now see why Valverde is liked by many most of the time. I assume if Ye had watched the **** show that was movistar TDF, a certain star doesn’t come out very well in it - no shock

Lord , you can’t trust anyone in that sport (loyalty I mean) no wonder riders are highly strung and starving half the time . A lot of stress and that’s just the politics of teams - again, not a spoiler ,we know about their and Sky’s 2-3 stars in one team in one race for years

Great piece. Will get a lot of people talking . Pretty warts and all which I doubt you’d have got from Brailsford Team Sky - though G’s BBC documentary of last years tour was very good

Seems the Spanish media in general are unbearable, everyone is an expert, even in cycling ,as bad as the football media in Spain. Kinda makes me glad bbc are so bland and inoffensive .

G1032

Just finished episode 2. Looking forward to the rest of it now. 2 very good episodes so far

End credits song is class :-)
'Go Solo' by Tom Rosenthal

fat bloke

Binged it last night. Very watchable. At first I thought it'd just be a big Canyon / Movistar advert and group hug, but the protagonists don't hold back.

Jeez yer man, one of the DS's is fierce matter-of-fact and unforgiving altogether, forget his name, but you'll know when you hear him speak!

Great to hear Declan Quigley's snippets on it as well from the Giro.

Randy Archer

It reminds me out South Park at times, it’s all about having balls. You have balls, shows some balls . Lol. Ah “toxic masculinity” isn’t it great .grrrrr

fat bloke

Randy Archer wrote: »

It reminds me out South Park at times, it’s all about having balls. You have balls, shows some balls . Lol. Ah “toxic masculinity” isn’t it great .grrrrr

It is sure is, Randy. It really, really is.:pac:

Mehaffey1

Copied from my post in the Netflix Recommendations Thread.

Started into The Least Expected Day earlier today and looks great. Overcoming was the best cycling documentary I'd seen and this seems just as good. Wonder will we look back in a few years at the principle stars like we do now about Basso, Zabriskie etc. We always say not this generation and every time the fans have been let down.

G1032

Just finished this. Binge watched it today!!

It's a fabulous documentary.

There's no holding back in any of the interviews and it provides a really refreshingly honest account of life within the team during the 3 GT's.

Some of the scenes from within the team car are brilliant.

You also get a massive appreciation for the tension caused by having more than one leader. Cold. Ouch.

And the sacrifices that some riders have to make during a race at the drop of a hat. It must be heartbreaking at times for them. You see it all the time on Eurosport when watching the racing but this really delves into the minds and thoughts of the riders and how DS decisions affect them.

Brilliant documentary that I'll be watching again.

Finnrocco

Lastras was the DS. he just says things like he doesn't listen, he doesn't do what he is told.

Tells one of the riders next time I tell you to do it, do it.

Valverde just seems to always say, feck it lads sure we will give it a lash.

Bambaata

Good show, couldn't get over how defeatist Landa seems, he seems to lack confidence at times, probably not helped by the situation as it was left to fester. I can see Valverde heading for management anyway, he seemed to talk nearly as much as the team directors.

dastardly00

I've watched four episodes so far and the insight into the team is brilliant. I'm amazed that some of the controversial bits weren't edited out.

The production quality is excellent, except for the subtitles which I believe are a bit sketchy at times.

Mikel Lands seems like a nice guy, but lacks that killer instinct. Whereas the impression I get of Carapaz is that he wouldn't think twice about killing his granny to win a race :pac:

Richard Hillman

I liked it. The first episode is very messy, like a preview episode. I think it could have been longer but maybe they were only allowed a certain amount of access.

One thing that I really learned was how much the team car does be shouting into the microphone for the riders earpiece. They must be driven insane.

Finnrocco

Landa seems a very flaky guy, he needs a lot of TLC I reckon. Deffo needs to be a sole leader, but has he got the ability for that role?


How many times did he say I felt like jacking it in ?

Wasn't much of a celebration at the dinner table when Quintana won a stage was there?

dastardly00

Richard Hillman wrote: »

One thing that I really learned was how much the team car does be shouting into the microphone for the riders earpiece. They must be driven insane.

vamos! vamos! vamos! vamos!


I'm not surprised riders take out their earpiece

eeeee

It really highlighted how shyte their '3 team leaders' strategy is, is doesn't really seem to work for anyone except in exceptional circumstances. It can't be conducive to team spirit, team work and general cohesion. They're set up as a team of individuals rather than a team (it must be horrible for the domestiques too, the scene where one congratulates a team leader for winning a stage, and they're the only one happy for that team leader - makes for a bad atmosphere.). Makes for an awful waste imo. But then again they're a multi-million Euro grand tour winning team so what do I know :pac:

I was sad there was no coverage of the women's team

MPFGLB

I liked Acosta the best ..(boy does he swear). UNzue also a good guy and quite laid back for a team owner.maybe why Movistar not as focused and successful as SKY/Ineos
Lastras is very very tough

As for the team leaders ..what struck me most is how charming and unflinching Carapaz is with a killer instinct..Movistar should have bent over backwards to keep him ..Cant see him being happy to be on the train at INEOS
Its funny he reminded me of a young Stephen Roche

On the other hand Landa who is a great climber has defeat etched into his DNA..its almost like he looking for something to go wrong so he can say ...'well there you have it ..I told you I am cursed' ..cant see him wining a GT

Valverde is alright ...a bit too coy ..has alot of confidence as you would expect

Quintana was the one I found the most interesting . You could see he so wanted to win and do the right thing and listened to DS , etc . But he was unable to communicate esp at times of 'weakness'. Unable to ask for help or join in the team dynamics. I felt for him when his team mates were having a go about him..some very loudly
He was almost afraid to join them when he won his stage ...

Just goes to show cycling leaders are not all about the legs

letape

I really enjoyed it and would watch it again. Agree with what MPFGLB said. Quintana almost an outsider on the team despite being there since 2013(?) - lacks the ability to join in with the team.

I was very impressed by Carapaz. Impressive team leader and very likeable. Great insights into his background and family in Ecuador. He clearly should have been the heir to the throne with Quintana and Landa leaving and Valverde coming to the end of his career. Disappointing that he left.

Quintana was a new man at the start of this season, change in him was unreal. Even taking away the wins he looked so good on the bike, like he hasn't done for maybe 3 or 4 years.

I do feel sorry for Landa, he's had a some rotten luck in the last few years. I think it stared at San Sebastian and that put him out for the rest of the season, back the following year and did his collar bone in I think his first race back. This year he was hit by a car/van out training and was racing with a rib injury that wasn't 100% healed. Remember how good he looked in 2017 at the Tour nearly dropping Froome and having to easy up for him?

dastardly00

Just finished watching episode 5.
I felt so sorry for Quintana when he arrives at the dinner table after winning the stage at the TDF. The rest of the team didn't really care.

And as for Pablo Lastras... I think I'm going to have nightmares about him tonight.. fcuk me he is scary :eek:

dastardly00

dastardly00 wrote: »

Just finished watching episode 5.
I felt so sorry for Quintana when he arrives at the dinner table after winning the stage at the TDF. The rest of the team didn't really care

Yeah it was fairly tough on him though it looked as if they were pissed at him for what happened the previous day. I'd like to see him and Landa prosper at their new teams but a GT victory is unlikely with their TT skills.

Landa is like a modern day Luis Ocana, without the wins.

Can't see Carapaz being at Ineos too long.

buffalo

red_ken wrote: »

Can't see Carapaz being at Ineos too long.

I was trying to work that one out. My impression was that he didn't want to stay at Movistar because he didn't think he'd get a chance to be leader. Is he moving to Ineos because he think he'll be leader there, or because at least he'll get paid a fortune not to be leader?

CantGetNoSleep

buffalo wrote: »

I was trying to work that one out. My impression was that he didn't want to stay at Movistar because he didn't think he'd get a chance to be leader. Is he moving to Ineos because he think he'll be leader there, or because at least he'll get paid a fortune not to be leader?

I wonder has he been promised something like one GT a season with full support? He's probably fourth in line for TdF but depending on Froome's recovery, you could imagine at least two of the others focusing on TdF

neris

Only up to episode 4 but Valverde doesnt come across as much of prick as i thought he was

dastardly00

Finished it this evening. It was great. I'd recommend it to any cycling fan or even sports fan. Great insight.

I would have loved if it was longer. They could have easily have had more episodes or show more race footage.

LCD

MPFGLB wrote: »

Just goes to show cycling leaders are not all about the legs

This has to be on the money. In fact I would say there is a lot more to being a pro cyclist than good legs, great numbers. I see guys who are in the world tour for years with very few results & you seldom see them doing huge "donkey" work on the front. They have to be on salaries >€100,00/year
What do they bring to the team or how do they keep getting contracts? Is so much more to it than just legs.
Guys who seldom get sick/injured, who are great off the bike, are great team mates, create a good atmosphere for the whole team.
You can imagine some guys have massive egos, complain about every hotel, every meal. hassle the team mechanic 5mins before the flag drops that he wants to change the rear cassette. These guys are just hard to live with for 3 weeks on a grand tour or even for a 1 day race.

You`ll put up with an a$$hole if take bring in amazing results, but for a domestique there is more to it than just fetching bottles

Finnrocco

That Arrieta fella was Big Mig's favoured domestique I think.

Daroxtar

Finished it this evening. Really enjoyed it. Like others have said, I can see myself going back and re watching that again.

De Bhál

Just finished it. Great stuff, good access to the team although it could be a lot better. Longer episodes, more interviews etc.

Biggest surprise was seeing the cyclists driving the team cars after a stage. Valverde for example, driving down the mountain after busting a gut to get second that day.

eeeee

De Bhál wrote: »

Biggest surprise was seeing the cyclists driving the team cars after a stage. Valverde for example, driving down the mountain after busting a gut to get second that day.

This was really surprising!
I wonder if other teams do this? I thought all the riders got into the bus after a stage, or got a lift in cars down if the bus can't make it up there, or rode down! Who drove the cars up there and how did they get back down?
So many questions!

neris

eeeee wrote: »

This was really surprising!
I wonder if other teams do this? I thought all the riders got into the bus after a stage, or got a lift in cars down if the bus can't make it up there, or rode down! Who drove the cars up there and how did they get back down?
So many questions!

Alot of the high mountain stages the buses are no where near the finish. They could be 15km away. Some of the riders will just cycle back down to where the buses are after getting warm clothes & food at the finish. Sometimes they,ll take a cable car down if they finish in a ski resort. Stage like that valverde may have had to hang around a good while for doping control, media & sponsors so by the time he's done all the riders are finished and the roads quiet enough for the cars to drive down and he just goes straight to the hotel. Last while some teams have used helicopters to get their riders down off the finish but they dont always work

eeeee

neris wrote: »

Alot of the high mountain stages the buses are no where near the finish. They could be 15km away. Some of the riders will just cycle back down to where the buses are after getting warm clothes & food at the finish. Sometimes they,ll take a cable car down if they finish in a ski resort. Stage like that valverde may have had to hang around a good while for doping control, media & sponsors so by the time he's done all the riders are finished and the roads quiet enough for the cars to drive down and he just goes straight to the hotel. Last while some teams have used helicopters to get their riders down off the finish but they dont always work

Yeah I knew about the buses not being able to reach and the riding back down, the occasional helicopter, but the driving cars back was a new one on me, and I was wondering about the logistics of it. And other things!


Valverde came across well in the doc tbf, still not his biggest fan but he's a good team person going on that.

Jim Gazebo

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

buffalo

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

Exactly what I thought watching the first one, but well worth going on to 2&3 on last year's Giro.

neris

May have been mentioned previously but theres an Orica Scott documentary on Amazon prime from the 2017 tour if any one needs a fix. Its not intense as the Movistar one and splits between the racing and the team chefs

Chartsengrafs

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

Yes, I think so, and I agree with your thoughts on the first one. I've just finished watching episodes 2 and 3 and it is much more linear.

dastardly00

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

I'd echo what the others have said. Episode 1 is all over the shop. But then the rest follow the calendar year... a couple of episodes each on the Giro, le Tour and Vuelta

Randy Archer

red_ken wrote: »

Yeah it was fairly tough on him though it looked as if they were pissed at him for what happened the previous day. I'd like to see him and Landa prosper at their new teams but a GT victory is unlikely with their TT skills.

Landa is like a modern day Luis Ocana, without the wins.

Can't see Carapaz being at Ineos too long.

You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .

They sure as hell don’t like Quintana . He didn’t come across very well in it , not communicating etc, and he’s suppose to be the boss , the alpha male, the guy who actually has the giro n Vuelta titles, two really though titles.

Guess I’m not mad about him in light of the Tom Doumulon Giro incident in 2017 - one day Tom actually stops the peloton knowing that Nario is down, but the next day when Tom got into trouble , Nario didn’t return the favour , little bit C h

Then again, least we know that Nario ain’t on the juice . He didn’t exactly go out of his way to help his team And sort of threw the dummy out . Yet again Hard not to feel sorry for him, it was like an episode of the David Brent the office . Interesting to see how well he has done this season and it seems that his new team is actually a pretty decent group in their own right

The documentary didn’t show him in a good light at the Vuelta , not sure the emotional speech at the end was genuine, you could see the lads being more than happy to say, jog on Nario (despite the two GT wins)

Carpaz , hard to dislike him, but of a killer instinct, I like that. He certainly has balls as his team would shout. He kinda burned bridges with them at the end, they weren’t impressed how he was there for the Vuelta and having fecked off to Sky, kinda reminds me of Robin Van Persie ie the minute he got two solid seasons under in belt after so ,any years of injury and acting the bollock ,he decks off. Suppose he saw the drama at Movistar and thought feck this. But to go to Sky ? Jesus h Christ ,they have their own power struggles .

Valverde , hmm. Always respected his ability and willingness to ride in Classics and GTs , but 2008-2010 drugs scandals always made me doubt and dislike him. He’s an interesting dude and a savage cv if he’s clean. Outstanding even . He’s a guy who talks a lot but does walk the walk too ,so kudos. There were two incidents were I thought he came across as being a bit coy, coy even.... one in particular was when he claimed not to hear his team mate ,who was in a winning position , ask for a gel . Can see , from his personality, why he is highly respected by the media and the peloton .

The other team mates, I found very interesting ,especially the blonde head guy, Rojas and Soller ,felt sorry for him at the Vuelta

As for the two guys in the cars, the Giro guy ,it’s all about the balls lol, seems likeable ,someone the riders can like but came across as a bit incompetent ,he fecked up a few times but he admitted it immediately

. The bald head guy for the TDF and Vuelta , have zero time for ... Some of his orders screwed things up And again, felt he emotional speech at the end was for show - could see how Nario would be like “bit ch please “

Landa, where do he start. Great rider , hard not to think that the man is cursed especially getting knocked down this year,when he has a new team but .... he comes across as big of a self entitled woes me bitch . He didn’t have the “balls” to grab the incentives . Certainly was a man on a mission at the TDF

Great show, would love to know what they cut out . I use to laugh at Movistar ballsing up races ie riding hard for other teams , but I can’t blame the riders themselves. Despite a pretty good year for them, last year, it seemed a very toxic environment which we already suspected

Randy Archer

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

Yes watch the rest, it’s brilliant, just for the camera work and interviews alone. All over the shop, is probably an apt description of how the team rode last year . Surprised so much of it got released , compare to the stuff Froome and G did for their documentaries

Daroxtar

One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.

Finnrocco

It also came across to me that most of the DS aren't really that great.

Tactics? Go hard on the last hill? Make it hard for them today? When a rider is away on his own roar have you got the balls?

We could all do that.

I mean even the Sky tactics aren't anything magic- ride a train as hard as you can all the way up the last mountain and your team leader rides away. Pretty much any race I ever did.

It's the same as it ever was - strongest man wins (mostly).

Junior

Randy Archer wrote: »

You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .

The directors were only asked to remove two bits, one was some swearing, and the other was some unintentional nudity (someone walked across the back of a shot)

plodder

It's a fascinating series all right. It's interesting how the likes of Carapaz and Quintana are such heroes back in their home countries. Reminded me a lot of the fuss over Stepehen Roche and Sean Kelly here back in the day. I'm finding it hard to keep up with the subtitles at times as the Spanish speak so damn fast. Will definitely watch it again though.

CramCycle

buffalo wrote: »

I was trying to work that one out. My impression was that he didn't want to stay at Movistar because he didn't think he'd get a chance to be leader. Is he moving to Ineos because he think he'll be leader there, or because at least he'll get paid a fortune not to be leader?

I think he says exactly this in the last episode, he won't get to be leader at Movistar, and he gets a bigger cheque at Sky.

neris wrote: »

Only up to episode 4 but Valverde doesnt come across as much of prick as i thought he was

Indeed, he comes across as possibly one of the nicest guys there. Sometimes he clearly associates with the more favourable on the day, but I get the impression it is all just a bit of fun and games, repeatedly, I am 39, I shouldn't be here but I'll be back next year.

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

I didn't get past the first episode. Thought it was all over the shop . Should I bother watching the rest? Seems good in ratings from people here but if it is anything like first episode I have no interest.

It's worth watching but it remains all over the shop IMO, there was no smooth flwo. The episodes became more focused, but still not the most logical in regards sequencing.

Randy Archer wrote: »

You’d love to know what they actually edited out of this pretty warts and all documentary .

I didn't think they came across all that bad, they all come across nicer than I imagined, the looks on their faces didn't match up with wat they said. It still came off a bit PR fluffy IMO, just by someone who knows not to make it to nicey nice.

They sure as hell don’t like Quintana . He didn’t come across very well in it , not communicating etc, and he’s suppose to be the boss , the alpha male, the guy who actually has the giro n Vuelta titles, two really though titles.

He says it himself at the end, interesting comeback on one of the stages after being nearly dead the day before.

Guess I’m not mad about him in light of the Tom Doumulon Giro incident in 2017 - one day Tom actually stops the peloton knowing that Nario is down, but the next day when Tom got into trouble , Nario didn’t return the favour , little bit C h

I still think that is the team telling him to go and him following, it was the one thing that stuck out about the whole thing, the riders looked way better but the team management really came across poorly.

Then again, least we know that Nario ain’t on the juice . He didn’t exactly go out of his way to help his team And sort of threw the dummy out . Yet again Hard not to feel sorry for him, it was like an episode of the David Brent the office . Interesting to see how well he has done this season and it seems that his new team is actually a pretty decent group in their own right

How do you know that? Not saying he is or was, just no way to know from this.

The documentary didn’t show him in a good light at the Vuelta , not sure the emotional speech at the end was genuine, you could see the lads being more than happy to say, jog on Nario (despite the two GT wins)

I thought it was one of the few genuine things, he had towed the line for so long and they all turned on him in a second, even though the issues were more management than Nairo.

Carpaz , hard to dislike him, but of a killer instinct, I like that. He certainly has balls as his team would shout. He kinda burned bridges with them at the end, they weren’t impressed how he was there for the Vuelta and having fecked off to Sky, kinda reminds me of Robin Van Persie ie the minute he got two solid seasons under in belt after so ,any years of injury and acting the bollock ,he decks off. Suppose he saw the drama at Movistar and thought feck this. But to go to Sky ? Jesus h Christ ,they have their own power struggles .

I thought it was sh1tty they called him a traitor at the end, it isn't parish GAA, it is big business, he brought them a huge win, I think it just showed him as smarter than the rest.

Valverde , hmm. Always respected his ability and willingness to ride in Classics and GTs , but 2008-2010 drugs scandals always made me doubt and dislike him. He’s an interesting dude and a savage cv if he’s clean. Outstanding even . He’s a guy who talks a lot but does walk the walk too ,so kudos. There were two incidents were I thought he came across as being a bit coy, coy even.... one in particular was when he claimed not to hear his team mate ,who was in a winning position , ask for a gel . Can see , from his personality, why he is highly respected by the media and the peloton .

Ha, its funny how his radio never works when it suits him. He is one of those people I imagine it is hard to dislike if your on the same side as him.

Great show, would love to know what they cut out . I use to laugh at Movistar ballsing up races ie riding hard for other teams , but I can’t blame the riders themselves. Despite a pretty good year for them, last year, it seemed a very toxic environment which we already suspected

Its all the team management, they simply aren't good at it, but apparently that isn't a huge issue.

Daroxtar wrote: »

One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.

I didn't dislike them for it, racing is racing, I always joke I'd ride over you in a club league race to get a sniff of points, and while joking, at that level, I only think they stop if they are tired or they have been told. It's liek when Cancellara used to boss people into stopping for the yellow jersey, if you think it was for anything other than the fact he wouldn't hold it, I think your fooling yourself.

Finnrocco wrote: »

It also came across to me that most of the DS aren't really that great.

Tactics? Go hard on the last hill? Make it hard for them today? When a rider is away on his own roar have you got the balls?

We could all do that.

I mean even the Sky tactics aren't anything magic- ride a train as hard as you can all the way up the last mountain and your team leader rides away. Pretty much any race I ever did.

It's the same as it ever was - strongest man wins (mostly).

It's no different than an amateur race by the look of it.

RunDMC

CramCycle wrote: »

I think he says exactly this in the last episode, he won't get to be leader at Movistar, and he gets a bigger cheque at Sky.

Don't forget the falling out between Unzue and Giuseppe Acquadro. That's a big factor too in Quintana to Arkea-Samsic, Carapaz and Amador to Ineos. And he's making sure that the South American pipeline that Gianni Savio runs doesn't go near Movistar.

R

Mehaffey1

Daroxtar wrote: »

One think that comes out well for them is the incident in the Vuelta where they attacked when Roglic was caught up in the crash. At the time everyone was disgusted with them but looking at it now, it was their plan from the get-go and the race was on.

Didn't see the incident at the time but this is one aspect of Pro Cycling I'd hate to see left by the wayside. I'm sure there's been numerous occasions where riders or teams have planned to attack on the day a Race Leader has been held up. For something as monumental as a 3 week stage race I always thought it fantastic when a Peloton or Main Group slows the pace for a fallen Race Leader to get back into the group.

Then you can attack him/her all you want foe the rest of the stage. It's one of those things were lives are changed by a puncture or other misfortune. If you don't extend that behaviour to others as I would in a race then never expect it when you're on the receiving end of a bit of bad luck.

Aurelian

What struck me was none of them really had much personality, then when Valverde appears in the later episodes he lights up the screen. I didn't want to like him but he had more charisma than the other four put together. You can see why he's a star!

CramCycle

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

Didn't see the incident at the time but this is one aspect of Pro Cycling I'd hate to see left by the wayside. I'm sure there's been numerous occasions where riders or teams have planned to attack on the day a Race Leader has been held up. For something as monumental as a 3 week stage race I always thought it fantastic when a Peloton or Main Group slows the pace for a fallen Race Leader to get back into the group.

Then you can attack him/her all you want foe the rest of the stage. It's one of those things were lives are changed by a puncture or other misfortune. If you don't extend that behaviour to others as I would in a race then never expect it when you're on the receiving end of a bit of bad luck.

I would strongly disagree, that is part of the race, why does the leader by a few seconds deserve everyone to stop whereas the riders in 2nd or 3rd get nothing, it always sickens me a bit, either stop for every fallen rider till it is confirmed or stop for none. I prefer the former but would accept the latter at this level. If you can make an argument that makes sense whereby the 1st place rider is more deserving of the 2nd place rider who has planned meticulously to overtake him on GC on a certain day then I'd love to hear it. The riders got lambasted after that incident even though they were simply employees following orders, as they are meant too. It happens all the time but people seem to forget very easily. We tend to remember more when we don't like the riders who do it, and Movistar were not well liked at the time.

This said, I now simply dislike their management rather than their riders, not sure if that was their plan but if it was, it worked.

Junior

RunDMC wrote: »

Don't forget the falling out between Unzue and Giuseppe Acquadro. That's a big factor too in Quintana to Arkea-Samsic, Carapaz and Amador to Ineos. And he's making sure that the South American pipeline that Gianni Savio runs doesn't go near Movistar.

R

The falling out happened *because* of Carapaz to Ineos. The deal was done in the first year of Carapaz's contract and Movistar never got a sniff of it. Couple that with Carapaz riding an TDF Crit and doing his shoulder you had to know the wheels were coming off that relationship, but it was never explained or looked at in the Docu.