Claims to being Irish?

CaoinDory

So Paddys day is over. And I was browsing Facebook when I came across a post where a person claimed to be Irish because their "parents were born in ireland". They however were born and bred in America.
Another post claimed to have done a DNA test which came back "69% irish" although they had never been to our emerald isle.
So my question is can they claim that they are Irish? In your opinion?

Samuri Suicide

Wow...what an amazing and insightful first post on Boards. What is it with certain posters asking inane questions and never having the slightest opinion on the issues themselves...apart from when they log into one of their others accounts....yawn.
Please OP do let us know your own opinion on this burning issue??

CaoinDory

Actually I was on boards before. But my account was hacked so I'm starting new. Thanks though. Ha.

SmartinMartin

Look, I know they're not. You know they're not. But if it makes them happy and brings a few more dollars to the tourism industry, away with them.

CaoinDory

And actually yea. I'd be of the opinion that if you've never even been to Ireland, you can't claim to be Irish.

My grandparents were English. I'd never claim to be from England.

CaoinDory

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Look, I know they're not. You know they're not. But if it makes them happy and brings a few more dollars to the tourism industry, away with them.

Ha ha yes I get ya.

Rufeo

My friend was showing me this app called Gradient lately. I put a photo into it and it says I was 37 percent Irish. ..and over 50 per cent Arab. Wtf.

Ipso

Rufeo wrote: »

My friend was showing me this app called Gradient lately. I put a photo into it and it says I was 37 percent Irish. ..and over 50 per cent Arab. Wtf.

Sounds legit.

El_Duderino 09

There are different kinds of Irish and different degrees of Irishness.

I was born and bred in Ireland, to Irish parents as Irish ancestry as far back as I can gather. I try to learn the Irish stories and traditions and practice some of the traditions so I can teach them to my children, if I have any in the future.

Those are some of the things I consider important about being Irish. But I don't get to set the standard on what is or isn't Irish. So if someone else has Irish grandparents, has never been to Ireland and hasn't read much about Ireland but still considers themselves Irish, then who am I to judge?

CaoinDory

CaoinDory wrote: »

And actually yea. I'd be of the opinion that if you've never even been to Ireland, you can't claim to be Irish.

My grandparents were English. I'd never claim to be from England.

I don't know why actually visiting Ireland makes you more Irish then not visiting?
& you can claim to be English if you want, you may not want to but you can.

Also, nobody born here is automatically Irish. A person born in Montenegro to an Irish citizen is more Irish than a person born here.

CaoinDory

CaoinDory wrote: »

I came across a post where a person claimed to be Irish because their "parents were born in ireland". They however were born and bred in America.
/quote]

They are 100% an Irish citizen

twowheelsonly

Depends on the degrees of separation IMO.

In your first instance, absolutely yes they can claim to be Irish.

As an example, a friend of mine (more a friend of my daughters really...) is a fairly well known footballer that plies his trade at a decent level in the UK. Obviously that's where he lives now by virtue of his job. His girlfriend is also a 'neighbours child' and lives there with him for the last couple of years. They had their first child in the last few weeks. Are they entitled to consider that child Irish ? Damn sure they are in my opinion. Same for any Irish couple that happen to live abroad, usually by virtue of their work.

El_Duderino 09

bubblypop wrote: »

They are 100% an Irish citizen

Is irishness just about citizenship?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is irishness just about citizenship?

Being Irish & irishness are two different things, for sure.

EmmetSpiceland

I can never understand the animosity towards people “claiming” to be Irish through their heritage.

It’s mainly Americans that do this as it’s how they “identify” over there. You see it on Wikipedia, or IMDB, when you look up someone famous. It will usually say that person is of x, y, and z ancestry.

I, honestly, think it’s great. The more the merrier and if you’re ever over in the States those claiming Irish heritage will usually “look out” for you.

No reason for anyone to get in a “tizzy” over, that’s for sure.

JustAThought

It’s why we have the long established phrase ‘plastic paddies’.

Electric Sheep

Grow up for God's sake.

marklazarcovic

So long as their not claiming the dole I'm fine with it

Salary Negotiator

Unless you have ginger hair, speak as gaeilge, were born in Ireland and live off a potato based diet you’re not Irish. You just wish you were.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Being Irish - just like any other nationality - is just a political label. I'll never understand why people place so much importance on it.

Fr Tod Umptious

CaoinDory wrote: »

So Paddys day is over. And I was browsing Facebook when I came across a post where a person claimed to be Irish because their "parents were born in ireland". They however were born and bred in America.
Another post claimed to have done a DNA test which came back "69% irish" although they had never been to our emerald isle.
So my question is can they claim that they are Irish? In your opinion?

They say they are Irish just in the American context, to distinguish themselves from German Americans, or Polish Americans etc.

It goes back to the 1800s when there was mass immigration to America and immigrants started to use their native land to distinguish themselves from other immigrants.

It was then that nationality became important to people, an employer did not care if you were from Mayo, or Cork or Offaly, but they might care if you were from Ireland, Germany or Latvia.

So it's not about Ireland the island or the country, it's about America and how they see themselves with regards to other Americans

whisky_galore

I met a Yank once, think his distant ancestor stole a goat and had to escape to the states or some sh1t, I didn't have the faintest interest in his ancestry... and then he came out with this nugget of wisdom; "you know that old saying 'Erin go Bragh'? It means 'Ireland is fine' ".

I don't mind people acknowledging or having interest in their heritage, but not ill informed Darby O Gill misty eyed rubbish that Americans in particular revel in.

Ger Roe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There are different kinds of Irish and different degrees of Irishness.

I was born and bred in Ireland, to Irish parents as Irish ancestry as far back as I can gather. I try to learn the Irish stories and traditions and practice some of the traditions so I can teach them to my children, if I have any in the future.

Those are some of the things I consider important about being Irish. But I don't get to set the standard on what is or isn't Irish. So if someone else has Irish grandparents, has never been to Ireland and hasn't read much about Ireland but still considers themselves Irish, then who am I to judge?

Jack Charlton (honourary Irishman) and the FAI, would certainly agree with you.

beejee

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Being Irish - just like any other nationality - is just a political label. I'll never understand why people place so much importance on it.

Thousands of years of history is just a political label.

Sure I'm Egyptian today, and why not?! Tomorrow, who knows what I'll choose? It's all made up.

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is irishness just about citizenship?

Its about being a member of the tribe! Its not about bloodlines. It's not about a piece of paper. It's about the tribe.

Yes you can be Irish if you grew up in America and you are American etc.

You can be Irish if your parents were from Nigeria and you grew up here. Or if you moved here.

UNITE THE TRIBE! :pac:

And **** that other tribe over there like! **** THEM I SAY! We need to be strong or they will get us! :eek:

P.S I think that other tribe is probably coronavirus!

biko

What does it take to be Palestinian?
Is a passport enough or do you have to be born there?

ILoveYourVibes

biko wrote: »

What does it take to be Palestinian?
Is a passport enough or do you have to be born there?

They don't give passports. Don't ask why.

As of 1997, Palestinian passports were not issued in the name of the State of Palestine

Technically they issue travel documents. But it looks like a passport. They are not issued in the name of the state of Palestine though.

Also Hamas refuses to let people who oppose the Hamas govt get one.

Prior to 48 they had british passports.

Most palestinians use temp jordanian passports. Since its difficult to get in anywhere with a palestinian passport.

To answer your question. If you are a Palestinian ..you are one. It doesn't mean you live in palestine.

Oh and yeah the PA issues a diff 'passport/travel document' than hamas.

Both of them are largely ignored by Palestinians.

trashcan

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Unless you have ginger hair, speak as gaeilge, were born in Ireland and live off a potato based diet you’re not Irish. You just wish you were.

Ah crap, 3 out of 4. So close....

biko

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

To answer your question. If you are a Palestinian ..you are one. It doesn't mean you live in palestine.

Ergo, if you are Irish, you are Irish.
Clear as mud

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

beejee wrote: »

Thousands of years of history is just a political label.

Sure I'm Egyptian today, and why not?! Tomorrow, who knows what I'll choose? It's all made up.

Why do you have to be anything?

What anout the 20-30-40-50 years that happened after your brith? Does dthat not count for anything or have you just made it all up?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its about being a member of the tribe! Its not about bloodlines. It's not about a piece of paper. It's about the tribe.

Yes you can be Irish if you grew up in America and you are American etc.

You can be Irish if your parents were from Nigeria and you grew up here. Or if you moved here.

UNITE THE TRIBE! :pac:

And **** that other tribe over there like! **** THEM I SAY! We need to be strong or they will get us! :eek:

P.S I think that other tribe is probably coronavirus!

Belonging to a tribe takes connection and investment - you can't be a part of a tribe when you don't feel any connection with anything the tribe members are supposed to believe and when you have no feelings for or against the values the tribe is supposed to espouse.

ILoveYourVibes

biko wrote: »

Ergo, if you are Irish, you are Irish.
Clear as mud

this guy says you don't have to be irish to be irish
I think its very Irish.

ILoveYourVibes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

But how can you be a part of a tribe when you don't feel any connection with anything the tribe members are supposed to believe and when you have no feelings for or against the values the tribe is supposed to espouse?

Why would you want to be a part of that tribe? That's not making sense.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Why would you want to be a part of that tribe? That's not making sense.

You said, "it's aboout being a member of a trbe" - I said it's not for the reasons I outlined.

It's a political label. It does nothing to define an individual. There are people who have never set foot in this country who have a stronger connection with being "Irish" than I do.

ILoveYourVibes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

You said, "it's aboout being a member of a trbe" - I said it's not for the reasons I outlined.

It's a political label. It does nothing to define an individual. There are people who have never set foot in this country who have a stronger connection with being "Irish" than I do.

You have a connection with your friends your family your neighbors.

'Irish' isn't just this abstract thing. Its your landscape your people etc. Its grafton street. Its cork. The feeling of home.

Its a mindset and being familiar with it.

If you can't relate to what you think the values of the 'Irish people are' carve out your own. Find your place.

Make your own Irish identity because there are probably lots of people who feel the same way.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You have a connection with your friends your family your neighbors.

That very assumptive of you: both my paretns have passed way and my sister and I have nothing in common (although we are on good terms).

My friendships are built on common interests, not on nationality. My Irish friends are not my friends just because they are Irish!

'Irish' isn't just this abstract thing. Its your landscape your people etc. Its grafton street. Its cork. The feeling of home.

Again - I don't have any feelings for any of those things, What is it "home"?

It's a mindset and being familiar with it.

But I'm not!

If you can't relate to what you think the values of the 'Irish people are' carve out your own. Find your place.

THIS is my point! My "tribe" is carved you. I found it. And it's NOT based on being Irish!

Make your own Irish identity because there are probably lots of people who feel the same way.

WHy does my identity have to be Irish?? That's a illusionary barrier.

Redneck Reject71

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its about being a member of the tribe! Its not about bloodlines. It's not about a piece of paper. It's about the tribe.

Yes you can be Irish if you grew up in America and you are American etc.

You can be Irish if your parents were from Nigeria and you grew up here. Or if you moved here.

UNITE THE TRIBE! :pac:

And **** that other tribe over there like! **** THEM I SAY! We need to be strong or they will get us! :eek:

P.S I think that other tribe is probably coronavirus!

On my mother's side, to be in their tribe you have to have 2 things. Having a direct ancestor on the Dawes Roll (paper),and meet the blood quantum requirements (bloodlines).Just saying your apart of a tribe or culture, without any real connection, doesn't make it true.IMHO

ILoveYourVibes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That very assumptive of you: both my paretns have passed way and my sister and I have nothing in common (although we are on good terms).

My friendships are built on common interests, not on nationality. My Irish friends are not my friends just because they are Irish!



Again - I don't have any feelings for any of those things, What is it "home"?

But I'm not!

THIS is my point! My "tribe" is carved you. I found it. And it's NOT based on being Irish!



WHy does my identity have to be Irish?? That's a illusionary barrier.

Well if you live in Ireland ..don't want to feel a part of the community around you? Maybe you don't call it irish if you don't want to.

ILoveYourVibes

Redneck Reject71 wrote: »

Just saying your apart of a tribe or culture, without any real connection, doesn't make it true.IMHO

i guess so ..we all human though!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well if you live in Ireland ..don't want to feel a part of the community around you? Maybe you don't call it irish if you don't want to.

I don't live in Ireland - I hated Irish society because I felt it was based on conformity and the bullying and ridicule of people who chose not to conform. This was and is my personal experience of the Irish community and being Irish and it's not what I entertain or stand for.

I now live in a place where I feel accpted for who I am and not who the "community" thinks I shuld be.

And THIS is why a being "Irish" (or any nationality) will never be anything more than a word on a passport to me: it's a concept that relys on collective conformity, not individuality.

fryup

irish is born & bred?? well that makes half the irish soccer team non-irish then

partyguinness

For the first time in centuries the majority of the island will remember St Patrick's Day.

For me you really need to be born and bred here. Now, don't get me wrong if Casey in Chicago wants to claim she is Irish that's fine to feel some sort of connection- no skin off my nose.

I get a few folk in England every so often and the conversation will go like this:

Plastic Paddy: Oh what part of Ireland are you from? I am Irish
PG: The best bit. Cork. What part are you from? (I don't recognise the accent which sounds decidedly cockney)
Plastic Pady: Oh...am...oh..well my grandfather was Irish. I have never been.
PG: So why the fcuk are you standing there telling me you are Irish you gob****e.

And no its is not an "Irish Pub". This is London. The only place to find Irish pubs is in Ireland. It is an Irish 'themed' pub.

El_Duderino 09

bubblypop wrote: »

Being Irish & irishness are two different things, for sure.

This is probably the crux of it. Being Irish is probably just a matter of nationality.

Irishness is everything else that encompasses being Irish including the culture, history, experience and memories.

ILoveYourVibes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

That very assumptive of you: both my paretns have passed way and my sister and I have nothing in common (although we are on good terms).

My friendships are built on common interests, not on nationality. My Irish friends are not my friends just because they are Irish!



Again - I don't have any feelings for any of those things, What is it "home"?

But I'm not!

THIS is my point! My "tribe" is carved you. I found it. And it's NOT based on being Irish!



WHy does my identity have to be Irish?? That's a illusionary barrier.

Well it doesn't have to be. But you live here. Its what you are ..sometimes even if you would prefer to be something else....its like being white ...or gay or black ...you just are it. Even if you don't like it or can't relate to it.

Being Irish influenced you ..even if that influence was bad or negative.


I mean had you grown up in a more open society ...you would be different ...but you didn't you grew up in Ireland.

Being here was a bad experience. Had you been somewhere else ...it would have been different.

You don't like your community. But that is actually part of your identity.

ILoveYourVibes

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I don't live in Ireland - I hated Irish society because I felt it was based on conformity and the bullying and ridicule of people who chose not to conform. This was and is my personal experience of the Irish community and being Irish and it's not what I entertain or stand for.

I now live in a place where I feel accpted for who I am and not who the "community" thinks I shuld be.

/QUOTE]


mm i dont think you should be anything other than a kind person etc.

But you say ...who i am ....you are a girl who was born in Ireland. It is what it is.

I understand what you say about bullying etc. I experienced it and often i feel like an outsider in some ways.

But ..i am not American ..i am not Russian or Ukrainian ...

I mean not all my grandparents were from Ireland ..but my parents are. I am not catholic etc ...don't speak irish. Very different ...tbh i think i would be very different everywhere though.

I am just Irish. I have an Irish accent etc. If i could choose ..i would probably choose something more exotic ...or a larger country ....but ...well if i say i am not irish ..i am kidding myself ..and wanting to be more grandiose than i am.

Just because you never fit in back in Ireland .....doesn't help you escape being irish. Sadly.

Which must be horrible. It is what it is.

Thinkingaboutit

I see no great harm. In this ever shifting world, an ancestral identification is no real harm, and for some like Armenians or Jews, was or is the only one really possible. Sometimes, at worst, diasporas can fund violent outfits, having no understanding of the land their ancestors left. And as other others have pointed out: an Irish American Lobby can result Morrison Visas and the like.

ILoveYourVibes

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is probably the crux of it. Being Irish is probably just a matter of nationality.

Irishness is everything else that encompasses being Irish including the culture, history, experience and memories.

There is a mindset though, a perception.



If you moved to China you would realize you are not chinese ...maybe after a time of being there you would feel chinese.

ILoveYourVibes

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

I see no great harm. In this ever shifting world, an ancestral identification is no real harm, and for some like Armenians or Jews, was or is the only one really possible. Sometimes, at worst, diasporas can fund violent outfits, having no understanding of the land their ancestors left. And as other others have pointed out: an Irish American Lobby can result Morrison Visas and the like.

Lots of people who are not Jewish have Jewish ancestors. They wouldn't have grown up in a Jewish community or household or studied Judaism. Nor would they feel Jewish. Some of them might be happy muslims or christians.

Fritzbox

I imagine that if you went around speaking with an Irish or German accent while at the same time admitting you were also born in that country and spent your formative years there - while at the same time denying that you were actually an Irish person or a German - I'm pretty certain you would receive some very funny looks from people.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well it doesn't have to be. But you live here. Its what you are ..sometimes even if you would prefer to be something else....its like being white ...or gay or black ...you just are it. Even if you don't like it or can't relate to it.

Being Irish influenced you ..even if that influence was bad or negative.


I mean had you grown up in a more open society ...you would be different ...but you didn't you grew up in Ireland.

Being here was a bad experience. Had you been somewhere else ...it would have been different.

You don't like your community. But that is actually part of your identity.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

mm i dont think you should be anything other than a kind person etc.

But you say ...who i am ....you are a girl who was born in Ireland. It is what it is.

I understand what you say about bullying etc. I experienced it and often i feel like an outsider in some ways.

But ..i am not American ..i am not Russian or Ukrainian ...

I mean not all my grandparents were from Ireland ..but my parents are. I am not catholic etc ...don't speak irish. Very different ...tbh i think i would be very different everywhere though.

I am just Irish. I have an Irish accent etc. If i could choose ..i would probably choose something more exotic ...or a larger country ....but ...well if i say i am not irish ..i am kidding myself ..and wanting to be more grandiose than i am.

Just because you never fit in back in Ireland .....doesn't help you escape being irish. Sadly.

Which must be horrible. It is what it is.

It's interesting that your first post refers to "being Irish" but yoru second one is "being born in Ireland". That's the difference I'm pointing at.

Yes, experience growing up in Ireland influenced me - but it influenced be as a person. It had nothing to do with my nationality.

Your last line is true - I am Irish - but it's a lable. It's a document, not an identity. It's like a religion. If you haave a religion assigned to you at birth, and if it works for you great - but it's just a coincidence. And if it doesn't, then you find some other way of defining who you are.

keithkk16

Are they any good at football? If yes, then yes they are Irish