Why are manufacturers allowed to sell cars without spare wheels?

Del2005

So I've had a 3 punctures in the last year or so and it all cases the tyre was unrepairable and not safe to drive.

1st time I got a Stanley blade through the thread on a rental Fiat 500 which had no spare or can of foam, I don't think that the foam would have sealed the puncture anyway. Rang the hire company and their tyre people let me down. Luckily I wasn't using the car and it was at a friend's so I could take the wheel to a tyre shop and used a large sleeper for safety.

2nd I clipped a stone knocked off a wall on a narrow road and did the side wall. Have a space saver spare so could change it, didn't have a can of foam but got into a big driveway to change the tyre in the rain as usual!

3rd was my own fault as I clipped a kerb when pulling in to park and did the sidewall again. Knew the tyre was fecked so thought I'd try the foam to avoid changing the tyre in the rain, foam poured out the hole and didn't work so got soaked changing the spare.

In all 3 cases I was lucky that I didn't need the car or had a spare. But if I had been anywhere other than at my friend's house when the 500 got punctured I'd of been stranded for a company to be able to get a few less grams of CO2 emissions while they continue to make cars bigger and bigger. Why can't they go back to small cars and give us a spare instead of massive cars, compare a car 10 year old car to a new one of the same model, with no spare. The smaller car would be default emit less.

MetzgerMeister

Reduced CO2 emissions
Reduced costs
Run flats usually installed from factory

TheChizler

Nothing stopping you buying a spare and keeping it in the boot I suppose.

mickdw

Punctures are a rare occurance now really. I still think a spare is very worthwhile though. Only buy from a company that does offer a spare.

Toyotafanboi

TheChizler wrote: »

Nothing stopping you buying a spare and keeping it in the boot I suppose.

The thing is I suppose manufacturers are putting other things in the spare wheel well now like audio amplifiers and adblue tanks.

Still like to have a spare myself.

bladespin

Space, weight, cost, also the fact that there's a growing number of drivers who won't/can't change a wheel.

marcos_94

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The thing is I suppose manufacturers are putting other things in the spare wheel well now like audio amplifiers and adblue tanks.

Still like to have a spare myself.

For my last 2 BMWs, I ditched the run flats as theyre quite stiff for low profile tyres and fit "normal tyres". Bought a 17" space saver from an older BMW and keep that ratchet strapped up against the back of the rear seats so it doesnt take up the whole boot.

I prefer having a spare wheel taking up some boot space rather than a foam can that renders the punctured wheel useless after a puncture.

Caranica

I hear ya. Blew a tyre exiting the port tunnel thanks to some class of debris on the road. Limped off the N1 up to the roundabout (mindful that I was potentially causing other problems/damage but it was too dangerous to stay where I was) and got into the hotel car park. It was a filthy dirty night and the breakdown guy took an age to arrive. Looked at the tyre, didn't take a genius to tell me it was wrecked but then he said he'd have to put the car on his truck and take it back to base. Base was Rush, North county Dublin. Meanwhile I was too close to home (22km) to qualify for a taxi so had to make my own way home and then my own way out to Rush the next day to collect the car. So frustrating. A spare tyre would have had me home easily with time to get a replacement tyre locally the next day.

Lurching

marcos_94 wrote: »

For my last 2 BMWs, I ditched the run flats as theyre quite stiff for low profile tyres and fit "normal tyres". Bought a 17" space saver from an older BMW and keep that ratchet strapped up against the back of the rear seats so it doesnt take up the whole boot.

I prefer having a spare wheel taking up some boot space rather than a foam can that renders the punctured wheel useless after a puncture.

My old E92 had been converted from run flats too.
It had the BMW spare wheel kit strapped in to the boot. It took up a fair bit of boot space, but the MV4 wheels needed very low profile tyres which got destroyed very easily, so I was happy to have it.

Wishbone Ash

marcos_94 wrote: »

For my last 2 BMWs, I ditched the run flats as theyre quite stiff for low profile tyres and fit "normal tyres". Bought a 17" space saver from an older BMW and keep that ratchet strapped up against the back of the rear seats so it doesnt take up the whole boot.....

How do the taxi drivers using BMW's manage? They are required by law to have a spare wheel. I can't imagine a wheel in a boot that doesn't have a wheel well would be very practical when doing airport runs.

marcos_94

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

How do the taxi drivers using BMW's manage? They are required by law to have a spare wheel. I can't imagine a wheel in a boot that doesn't have a wheel well would be very practical when doing airport runs.

Not sure to be honest as BMWs post 2006 ish all seemed to have run flats. Maybe the spare wheel law is only for "normal" tyres?

marcos_94

Lurching wrote: »

My old E92 had been converted from run flats too.
It had the BMW spare wheel kit strapped in to the boot. It took up a fair bit of boot space, but the MV4 wheels needed very low profile tyres which got destroyed very easily, so I was happy to have it.

Yeah there were kits sold for the e92. I did it with both my e92s and rarely ever had any issues with it being strapped to the back of the rear seats. Whenever I needed to put something bigger in, it was easy enough to get the spare wheel off so the back seats could be dropped.

Edit: I had MV4s on my first e92. Great looking wheel but ridiculously prone to cracks, especially with the stiffer run flats

Henry Ford III

I've had 1 puncture in 20 years.

Del2005

TheChizler wrote: »

Nothing stopping you buying a spare and keeping it in the boot I suppose.

I have a spare, the rental didn't.

Del2005

bladespin wrote: »

Space, weight, cost, also the fact that there's a growing number of drivers who won't/can't change a wheel.

Stop making the cars bigger instead of taking essential equipment out of it. Even if the person driving can't change the wheel at least if there's a spare a good Samaritan or recovery driver can.

bladespin

Del2005 wrote: »

Stop making the cars bigger instead of taking essential equipment out of it. Even if the person driving can't change the wheel at least if there's a spare a good Samaritan or recovery driver can.

These days you just call the AA, one of the UK companies I occasionally work for has specifically prohibited changing wheels, they give you a recovery card for this type of scenario (I know of one Irish lad who had a disciplinary meeting over exactly this) - it's crazy but that's the world now.

argentum

Can change a puncture if it happens.Wife had a compressor and a can of foam in her car.
Was only told after she used it that you need to buy a new tyre as they cant be repaired once they are full of foam so she forked out for a new tyre
Don't know if its true or not.
Just forked out 45K on a car and threatened to pull the deal if it had foam so they put in a space saver spare instead

LRNM

I opted not to get a spare tyre in the car when I bought it to save space/weight.



Hit some debris recently and wrecked the tyre. Pulled in, took out the puncture repair compressor thing most cars come with, and after about 3 minutes of reading the instructions I said **** this it's not worth it.
Those things are useless.



Free flatbed pickup with insurance, arrived in 45 mins, brought my car to the nearest tyre garage. Happy days.


Still feel like a spare isnt exactly neccessery considering the free insurance service but that could go bad some night if it takes hours to arrive or im going to the airport etc.

pippip

LRNM wrote: »

I opted not to get a spare tyre in the car when I bought it to save space/weight.



Hit some debris recently and wrecked the tyre. Pulled in, took out the puncture repair compressor thing most cars come with, and after about 3 minutes of reading the instructions I said **** this it's not worth it.
Those things are useless.



Free flatbed pickup with insurance, arrived in 45 mins, brought my car to the nearest tyre garage. Happy days.


Still feel like a spare isnt exactly neccessery considering the free insurance service but that could go bad some night if it takes hours to arrive or im going to the airport etc.

What happens when its out of hours?

LRNM

pippip wrote: »

And what happens when its out of hours?

I was of the impression its a 24 hour break down assist with fully comp insurance.
To answer your question: probably end up waiting 2-3 hours in the dark.

pippip

LRNM wrote: »

I was of the impression its a 24 hour break down assist with fully comp insurance.
To answer your question: probably end up waiting 2-3 hours in the dark.

Sorry I ment the tyre centre being closed.

Millionaire only not

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've had 1 puncture in 20 years.

I’d lay money Ull have a heap of them from now on ! Lol

LRNM

pippip wrote: »

Sorry I ment the tyre centre being closed.

I'm fecked!
Time to go get a spare tyre.

Sexual Chocolate

I bought a spare for the e90 at the start of the year, as there's no wheel well in them so it just sits in the boot with all my other ****. I'm soon to ditch the runflats so that's why I bought it.

Borrowed time

Know someone who needs a spare,a space saver would do.Where can one be purchased?A Scrappers??

jmreire

Down the Country where I live ( and especially on the back road's) Puncture's are an everyday driving hazard. So 1st thing on getting a new ( to me car, not necessarily a brand new one) is to check what kind of spare wheel it has ( or not as the case may be.) if not, then I will get a full sized spare, and not one of these "miniature" spare's. 2nd thing I do is to remove the security wheel bolt, and replace it with a standard one. Only then do I consider myself " Ready for the road "..

pablo128

That reminds me to get a spare for herselfs car. I went out of my way to get a top spec car for her with all the bells and whistles, only to discover when I got home that it doesn't come with a spare as standard.

Odyssey 2005

pablo128 wrote: »

That reminds me to get a spare for herselfs car. I went out of my way to get a top spec car for her with all the bells and whistles, only to discover when I got home that it doesn't come with a spare as standard.

Went to look at a mondeo vignale a couple of years ago. Didnt have a spare,and wirse still fuk all wheel well. Salesman couldn't believe I looked in the boot before I sat in the car. Was a big factor in not purchasing a mondeo.

Wishbone Ash

bladespin wrote: »

These days you just call the AA, one of the UK companies I occasionally work for has specifically prohibited changing wheels, they give you a recovery card for this type of scenario (I know of one Irish lad who had a disciplinary meeting over exactly this) - it's crazy but that's the world now.

My employer strictly prohibits staff from changing wheels. A recovery company has the contract to do so. It can be frustrating to wait around for a few hours if they are busy.

darragh o meara

Currently driving a F11 BMW 5 series which came with 19” run flats which I still have on the car but I also bought a 17”standard alloy which with its higher profile tyre has a rolling radius very close to the 19s currently on the car. It sits in the boot in a canvas cover I bought online, it takes up a good deal of room but I’m used to it now.

Reason for the spare is that I do a lot of driving and had a few punctures since I got the F11 and while I can drive on with the run flats Ive found that they’re usually damaged beyond repair when I get somewhere to get them fixed resulting in having to get a new tyre at exorbitant costs.. €320 I payed for 1 tyre one morning, my local tyre man does 2 Goodyear F1’s for not a lot more.. Since I got the spare I’ve used it twice and it’s saved me a lot of hassle.

I agree though, cars should have a spare no matter what it’s like, that way you have something.. these cans of gunk are only a cop out.

kirving

The thing is, most people can't change a puncture, and those that can, often can't do it safely when happens on a wet motorway at night.

Had I been asked two years ago, I'd have said I didn't really care one way or another as I never had a puncture in 130k km / 4 year, and that a can of goo is a safer bet for the majority of people.

I've since had two punctures on the motorway in two years. One as the result of builders at my house dropping a screw which I ran over, and the second a random blow out.

In the first case I stopped on a near empty M17 on a summers day. First tyre place let me down and never called, second place took an hour to fix as they had to bring the wheel to their shop. Missed a flight so was €400+ down in the end.

Would have loved a spare.

In the second case recently, dark M4 at 7am. Drove 8km off the motorway, ruining the tyre in the process, but it held up for safe driving. Goo was useless on a blowout, but did another 12k to get to a tyre place that didn't open for 2 hours.

Even if it been a small hole, I would have kept driving the 8k as it's just too dangerous to stop, so I was down a tyre in any case, and I still couldn't have completed my journey on time.

Little to no room in the wheel well of my car due to a hybrid battery, but I'll be buying a collapsible spare now.

Del2005

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

My employer strictly prohibits staff from changing wheels. A recovery company has the contract to do so. It can be frustrating to wait around for a few hours if they are busy.

Company policy is completely different to manufacturers removing the spare from cars. What will the recovery driver do when they get to your car and there is no spare for them to change? There are so many different hubs that they can't even carry a universal spare tyre.

mickdw

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Went to look at a mondeo vignale a couple of years ago. Didnt have a spare,and wirse still fuk all wheel well. Salesman couldn't believe I looked in the boot before I sat in the car. Was a big factor in not purchasing a mondeo.

If everyone looked in the boot and walked out the door, cars would very quickly be supplied with a free wheel kit as a dealer accessory.

Zubeneschamali

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've had 1 puncture in 20 years.

Last time I tried to rotate the tyres in the driveway, I literally couldn't get the nuts loose on one wheel. Broke a wheelbrace trying. No way anyone could have changed that wheel anywhere without special (very large) tools.

darragh o meara

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Last time I tried to rotate the tyres in the driveway, I literally couldn't get the nuts loose on one wheel. Broke a wheelbrace trying. No way anyone could have changed that wheel anywhere without special (very large) tools.

You cant even do that on some cars now.. Mine are wider on the back than the front.

Del2005

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Last time I tried to rotate the tyres in the driveway, I literally couldn't get the nuts loose on one wheel. Broke a wheelbrace trying. No way anyone could have changed that wheel anywhere without special (very large) tools.

My wheels are the same whatever alloy is in the wheel reacts with the hub and its difficult to open to open the bolts without a lot of leverage. When I first got the car I thought a mechanic had fallen asleep on an impact gun, found out it was the car when I tried to take the bolts I put in off later, put a smear of grease on the bolt and it won't seize. I bought a 12V impact gun so I can open mine if necessary, I can usually get them with a cross brace though.

darragh o meara

Del2005 wrote: »

My wheels are the same whatever alloy is in the wheel reacts with the hub and its difficult to open to open the bolts without a lot of leverage. When I first got the car I thought a mechanic had fallen asleep on an impact gun, found out it was the car when I tried to take the bolts I put in off later, put a smear of grease on the bolt and it won't seize. I bought a 12V impact gun so I can open mine if necessary, I can usually get them with a cross brace though.

My tyre lad uses a good spray of WD40 on the bolts and a smear of copper grease on the faces of the brake disc that mates to the rim before putting them back on, works a treat. I'd be more concerned with the useless POS they provide as a jack nowadays..

galwaytt

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've had 1 puncture in 20 years.

A quick tot in our house is 6 punctures in about 2 years. It's the roads. They're beyond 3rd world stuff - and running large diameter, never mind runflats is just painful.

My last Saab I sold the 17"s and put 16"s on it - much better.
Currently debating changing the 18"s on my 996 down to 17"s as well.

PsychoPete

Most people wouldn't be able to change a wheel so it's a lot easier to use the compressor and bottle of foam stuff. Even if they do have a spare wheel they normally give you a fairly short wheel brace which can be a bit of a pain

loyatemu

to what extent can tyres be repaired anyway, a lot of the time by the time people realise they have a puncture and have pulled into a safe spot, the tyre is wrecked anyway. I think I also read on here that many tyre places don't do the old plug repairs anymore.

zilog_jones

argentum wrote: »

Was only told after she used it that you need to buy a new tyre as they cant be repaired once they are full of foam so she forked out for a new tyre
Don't know if its true or not.

This is not true

colm_mcm

Didn’t have a puncture in 7 years of having the Civic. No spare.
Wrecked a 6 day old tyre on the Octavia at about 30km/h. Had a spare.

Lantus

Low profile tyres which look great in a showroom are awfully prone to damage and a discerning buyer would never opt for them unless on the very best of roads. Wherever they are.......

Tyres are ancient tech and long overdue innovation to counter monopoly and regulation.

Del2005

PsychoPete wrote: »

Most people wouldn't be able to change a wheel so it's a lot easier to use the compressor and bottle of foam stuff. Even if they do have a spare wheel they normally give you a fairly short wheel brace which can be a bit of a pain

At least if you have a spare a recovery person or good samaritan can change it. My Sister in Law got a puncture a few months, the rest of our family was at a funeral. My brother was going to get a taxi back to help. I said for her to open the boot and put the spare wheel on the ground, 2 people stopped to help in a few minutes. Even when I get my 2nd last puncture on a fairly rural road a person appeared from nowhere and helped me.

Agree on the crap wheel braces another example of manufactures cutting costs at the cost of safety to the public.

zilog_jones wrote: »

This is not true

Once foam goes into a tyre a reputable tyre repair company won't touch it.

deandean

I would refuse point blank to buy a car that didn't have a spare wheel (or a wheel well to carry an aftermarket spare).
I'm lucky enough to have a full size spare in my car.
I also have a good tyre plugging kit. I've repaired two punctures (one nail, one Spax screw) on the roadside in the past two years. It only takes a couple of minutes to plug a puncture - if a plug is appropriate.
And I have a small electric compressor in the car.
IMO it's ridiculous, and sometimes downright dangerous, to have to call & wait for a recovery vehicle if you get a flat.
A driver should be self-sufficient in being able to change a wheel. It should be part of the driving test!

zilog_jones

Del2005 wrote: »

Once foam goes into a tyre a reputable tyre repair company won't touch it.

I haven't had to use the stuff myself but I've asked tyre shops and they don't seem to think it's a problem - it is designed to be removable. Of course if there is any suspicion of sidewall damage then it's not going to be repaired, but that's the case regardless.

Del2005

deandean wrote: »

A driver should be self-sufficient in being able to change a wheel. It should be part of the driving test!

Wheels are heavy and installed in a very awkward posture, plenty of people don't the the strength or physical ability to replace a tyre. I've no problem with people not able to replace a tyre, I've a problem with not having the option.

zilog_jones wrote: »

I haven't had to use the stuff myself but I've asked tyre shops and they don't seem to think it's a problem - it is designed to be removable. Of course if there is any suspicion of sidewall damage then it's not going to be repaired, but that's the case regardless.

They don't think... The RAC recommend replacing the tyre after using foam

pablo128

Del2005 wrote: »

Wheels are heavy and installed in a very awkward posture, plenty of people don't the the strength or physical ability to replace a tyre. I've no problem with people not able to replace a tyre, I've a problem with not having the option.



They don't think... The RAC recommend replacing the tyre after using foam

Using plugs after putting the foam in won't work very well as the adhesive won't stick. If the tyre is removed and the foam cleaned out, and the area to be sealed is scrubbed with a buffer (which is standard practice), and a patch or mushroom patch used, there won't be an issue.

I used to fit tyres for a living btw.

Wishbone Ash

Del2005 wrote: »

Company policy is completely different to manufacturers removing the spare from cars. What will the recovery driver do when they get to your car and there is no spare for them to change? There are so many different hubs that they can't even carry a universal spare tyre.

I was responding to another poster - not the OP.

But to answer your question, the vehicle is towed away - the wheel is not changed at the side of the road. Expensive I'd say but must be cheaper than settling claims from employees who become 'injured' while trying to change a wheel.

zilog_jones

Del2005 wrote: »

They don't think... The RAC recommend replacing the tyre after using foam

There's no explanation why, and I wouldn't exactly consider the RAC an authoritative source on tyre repair. They may be of the school that plugging punctures is no good, which many would disagree with.

Wanderer78

Saves them a fortune