How come people are uncomfortable talking about social dynamics?

The Shocking Truth

I'll admit that I get why people aren't comfortable talking about this sort of stuff, and I've never actually tried to myself. If we thought about this stuff so deeply, we wouldn't be able to pay attention to the other stuff we're supposed to be doing. But interested or not, I don't know why it is that people have to undermine it. Because on the other hand, it is vitally important to understand what our own mannerisms are so that we don't end up being slotted as lower status individuals in the eyes of others. I could talk for hours about manipulation and power dynamics, and how to handle various social situations. There's many habits I used to have, that took me years to realise and correct. So it makes it funny to watch other people I know make certain mistakes, knowing that if they got a piece of my mind that it would really open up their eye.

Our society says that we want to get to the bottom of bullying, but if you were to actually have a conversation about why certain people get bullied, people won't not like what would be said. There are hundreds of different tricks that will be pulled on people throughout their lives that will leave them thinking "how did I fall for that?". And most people will never know why, because we're shunned on thinking deeply about things. And thereby we leave ourselves open to being manipulated in a similar manner later on in life.

Take an example - a salesman who explains something deliberately too fast because he knows you'll be too embarrassed to admit you didn't understand him when he asks "easy to understand, right?"! You then say "yeah" and thereby move things on to the next stage of him making the sale! Most of us will only learn such lessons on hindsight, if we're lucky to learn them at all.

And this is why people are rarely able to properly explain why they don't like someone. when someone says "he seems like a prick" about someone, and you ask "how so?" they'll often just reply with "I don't know, he just comes across as a prick". Whereas with me I'd always be able to put my finger on why I think someone is a particular way. Here's an example of a video on such:

I find it so funny the way everyone thinks they're not interested in this sort of stuff, but yet we're very responsive it. We'll watch people have an argument to see who wins, we love to hear a good joke. But yet if spoke out loud about trying to dissect why someone is charismatic in order to see what traits a person has that might fit your personality, people would crucify you!

Leg End Reject

Dude, it's Saturday night.

KiKi III

What do you think it means when someone keeps posting random streams of consciousness online for attention?

Larbre34

KiKi III wrote: »

What do you think it means when someone keeps posting random streams of consciousness online for attention?

Its cos he's a prick apparently. Did I get that right?

By the way, the leader Jair Bolsonaro chose to greet rather than Justin Trudeau would have been Scott Morisson, PM of Australia. Much more Bolsonaro's type.

The Shocking Truth

Larbre34 wrote: »

the leader Jair Bolsonaro chose to greet rather than Justin Trudeau would have been Scott Morisson, PM of Australia.

That sentence doesn't read right?

Your Face

Out of interest OP - how would you define Social Dynamics?

ILoveYourVibes

what are social dynamics?

anewme

Can you summarise what it is in a couple of bullet points Op?

Leg End Reject

anewme wrote: »

Can you summarise what it is in a couple of bullet points Op?

● Bullshıt

Earthhorse

They’re not uncomfortable with it. But they’re not interested in what you’re talking about.

Larbre34

The Shocking Truth wrote: »

That sentence doesn't read right?

Dyslexia?

uch

I'm not that bright but is this about the yoke you had to clip against your bicycle wheel so you could see where you were going?

uch

And don't forget the Cake,,, For Me, Please

Leg End Reject

uch wrote: »

I'm not that bright but is this about the yoke you had to clip against your bicycle wheel so you could see where you were going?

It's about cake.

Edit: ^^^ damn you, uch!

dd973

There's a particular sort of thicko who thinks someone's gay or fears they'll be perceived as such if they start talking about anything that requires half a brain, it's a sort of reverse snobbery, it's not confined to deprived areas prone to anti-intellectual attitudes either, it can just as easily be encountered in the Rugby club or after work pints.

Start talking about anything 'serious' or say 'the wrong thing'/broach the 'wrong subject' and these people start looking awkward and looking askance. These people tick the boxes for me regarding Depression or Suicide, I'm not some tactless type who lacks social skills but I've always found these people (they're usually male) seriously weird.

RicketyCricket

Social Dynamics? I liked their early stuff.

Junkyard Tom

Looks like a channel for socially awkward idiots.

uch

dd973 wrote: »

There's a particular sort of thicko who thinks someone's gay or fears they'll be perceived as such if they start talking about anything that requires half a brain, it's a sort of reverse snobbery, it's not confined to deprived areas prone to anti-intellectual attitudes either, it can just as easily be encountered in the Rugby club or after work pints.

Start talking about anything 'serious' or say 'the wrong thing'/broach the 'wrong subject' and these people start looking awkward and looking askance. These people tick the boxes for me regarding Depression or Suicide, I'm not some tactless type who lacks social skills but I've always found these people (they're usually male) seriously weird.

But do you have any cake? Custard slices are like Bitcoin around here

Wibbs

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Looks like a channel for socially awkward idiots.

More like one of those channels out to exploit the socially awkward, all the way to on the spectrum young men out there. It was originally driven by the "pick up" crowd, but has spotted that the aspie young lads are the better long term market to peddle their snake oil to. The presenters of such channels almost always come across as "wrong", not quite "normal", which again helps them plug into their market. It would be my humble that only those who didn't grasp the basics of "social dynamics" would fall for this shtick.

The Shocking Truth

Wibbs wrote: »

More like one of those channels out to exploit the socially awkward, all the way to on the spectrum young men out there. It was originally driven by the "pick up" crowd, but has spotted that the aspie young lads are the better long term market to peddle their snake oil to. The presenters of such channels almost always come across as "wrong", not quite "normal", which again helps them plug into their market. It would be my humble that only those who didn't grasp the basics of "social dynamics" would fall for this shtick.

Ryan Tubridy would love you!

The Shocking Truth

The term 'social dynamics' isn't unique to RSD. I didn't intend to even mention them, but seeing as someone did...

Wibbs wrote: »

More like one of those channels out to exploit the socially awkward, all the way to on the spectrum young men out there. It was originally driven by the "pick up" crowd, but has spotted that the aspie young lads are the better long term market to peddle their snake oil to.

Well since you've said that you're possibly an aspie yourself, then am I to assume that you feel that they exploited you too? Of course not, right? So then where do you get your information from? In the case of RSD, nearly all of there content was free, so I don't know if 'exploit' is a fair word. I highly doubt, that for the many men who began to follow RSD 10 years ago, that they are now left feeling exploited. You can't speak on their behalf.

It is impossible to prove for certain that my opinion is correct, but I can say this much - RSD motivated a lot of young nerdy men to get out of the house. And that is usually a good thing.

Wibbs wrote: »

It would be my humble opinion that only those who didn't grasp the basics of "social dynamics" would fall for this shtick.

But who else goes beyond the basics? The 'Charisma Matrix' youtube channel, for example, that I posted in this thread. But you'd probably disapprove of him too.

Rufeo

Like an orgy?

looksee

You'd almost be inclined to think that the OP would have been writing about PU expertise if he thought he could get away with it.

LaFuton

bull****e by fakebots, phuckoff back to euroland and take ur agendas with ya

The Shocking Truth

looksee wrote: »

You'd almost be inclined to think that the OP would have been writing about PU expertise if he thought he could get away with it.

And do you resent the fact that I can get away with what I am writing about?

Obviously a certain amount of this stuff is applied in PUA. But then again, it has equally as much to do with interview coaching, debating, door to door sales, how psychics work, and making friends. Don't be so cynical.

The Shocking Truth

Earthhorse wrote: »

They’re not uncomfortable with it. But they’re not interested in what you’re talking about.

Okay. Fair enough if they're not comfortable. But why do they try to undermine it then? You can even see that from the responses here. Particularly the mods.

85603

God damnit I cannot express how much I hate that MF who interrupted the planned handshake.

I've had this happen to me at vital moments, when I have to get or give important information, and some prick just barges in flapping their gums with irrelevant noise.

Wibbs

The Shocking Truth wrote: »

Well since you've said that you're possibly an aspie yourself, then am I to assume that you feel that they exploited you too? Of course not, right?

Mad with sunny spells, maybe, but nope not an aspie or on the spectrum. Quite the opposite if anything, an oft extreme extrovert with no problem reading social and emotional cues in others and do so better than most. For the craic like I just did this online "test". Got a score of 6(25 and above shows a tendency for on the spectrum).

So then where do you get your information from? In the case of RSD, nearly all of there content was free, so I don't know if 'exploit' is a fair word.

Always follow the money. The "free" content is the front end for "boot camps" and the like, which they charge the gullible a fair chunk for. Outfits like them were clever enough to see the whole "pick up" field which operated the same set up was on a hiding to nothing(one could quite easily condense the basics of their theories onto a single page of foolscap), so realised the market most likely to buy into the pick up stuff was the socially awkward and apsie young men who felt adrift and they were already on board. So move away from showing paid actresses(or last chance 2 AM drunkards at an office party) being "picked up" by oddballs and address the demographic directly. Ker ching!

It is impossible to prove for certain that my opinion is correct, but I can say this much - RSD motivated a lot of young nerdy men to get out of the house. And that is usually a good thing.

I doubt it. I suspect it's more like self help stuff that the vast majority don't actually do much and keep buying the products and maybe find fellow "sufferers" in online communities. Like the bodybuilding forums where 20% are actually lifting heavy things and eating well, while the rest mostly sun a circlejerk about refining the macros in their diets and the like.

But who else goes beyond the basics? The 'Charisma Matrix' channel, on youtube, for example. But you'd probably disapprove of him too.

Charisma, is basically authority of some nature mixed with an easy going friendliness, and/or not really giving a feck, but being aware of how you make others feel in your presence. You can often see this in extremis with people around famous individuals, where just basic hellos and how are you from on high makes them somehow more "charismatic". That'll be 9.99, one time offer.

Wibbs

The Shocking Truth wrote: »

Okay. Fair enough if they're not comfortable. But why do they try to undermine it then?

Because - and this is my humble of course - it gives false hope by suggesting "systems" to guys who are near hardwired to want social life to be an A+B=C system. Something which also tends to trigger a near obsessive adherence to said system and thsoe pushing same, again in folks more likely to become obsessive. Our world would be fooked without Aspie folks. They're the people who can often obsess in a positive way over the tiniest details of systems for years, while building up human understanding about the universe. The sciences are full of them.

LaFuton

fair city is on

The Shocking Truth

Wibbs wrote: »

Because - and this is my humble opinion of course - it gives false hope by suggesting "systems" to guys who are near hardwired to want social life to be an A+B=C system. Something which also tends to trigger a near obsessive adherence to said system and thsoe pushing same, again in folks more likely to become obsessive. Our world would be fooked without Aspie folks. They're the people who can often obsess in a positive way over the tiniest details of systems for years, while building up human understanding about the universe. The sciences are full of them.

On the other hand, on the rare occasion, I have seen charismatic peoples' demeanors fall apart in front of other people of higher status. It's quite interesting to see. It's in situations like this that I can hold my ground quite well. So the fact that they don't know the science (not that it's a science) is to their loss.

looksee

it is vitally important to understand what our own mannerisms are so that we don't end up being slotted as lower status individuals in the eyes of others.

This is where you lost me, a couple of sentences in. Why would I care whether anyone chose to slot me as 'lower status'? What does that even mean? If someone is making those sort of judgements based on a superficial look at my mannerisms then they are the one with the problem. It certainly isn't 'vitally important'.

The Shocking Truth

Wibbs wrote: »

(one could quite easily condense the basics of their theories onto a single page of foolscap)

Couldn't disagree more.

The Shocking Truth

looksee wrote: »

Why would I care whether anyone chose to slot me as 'lower status'?

A lot of people probably think that they think that! Maybe you actually do think it though!

looksee wrote: »

What does [lower status] even mean?

You know exactly what it means.

looksee wrote: »

If someone is making those sort of judgements based on a superficial look at my mannerisms then they are the one with the problem.

It's not superficial. It's mainly subconscious.

My feeling is that people who spend a lot of time thinking about how others see them tend to be people who feel that nobody notices them. Getting wound up about how others possibly see them won't make anyones interactions less awkward or more natural.

The One Doctor

KiKi III wrote: »

What do you think it means when someone keeps posting random streams of consciousness online for attention?

It means they're an Indo or IT columnist looking for a reaction.

Day Lewin

The Shocking Truth wrote: »

I'll admit that I get why people aren't comfortable talking about this sort of stuff, and I've never actually tried to myself. If we thought about this stuff so deeply, we wouldn't be able to pay attention to the other stuff we're supposed to be doing. But interested or not, I don't know why it is that people have to undermine it. Because on the other hand, it is vitally important to understand what our own mannerisms are so that we don't end up being slotted as lower status individuals in the eyes of others. I could talk for hours about manipulation and power dynamics, and how to handle various social situations. There's many habits I used to have, that took me years to realise and correct. So it makes it funny to watch other people I know make certain mistakes, knowing that if they got a piece of my mind that it would really open up their eye.

Our society says that we want to get to the bottom of bullying, but if you were to actually have a conversation about why certain people get bullied, people won't not like what would be said. There are hundreds of different tricks that will be pulled on people throughout their lives that will leave them thinking "how did I fall for that?". And most people will never know why, because we're shunned on thinking deeply about things. And thereby we leave ourselves open to being manipulated in a similar manner later on in life.

Take an example - a salesman who explains something deliberately too fast because he knows you'll be too embarrassed to admit you didn't understand him when he asks "easy to understand, right?"! You then say "yeah" and thereby move things on to the next stage of him making the sale! Most of us will only learn such lessons on hindsight, if we're lucky to learn them at all.

And this is why people are rarely able to properly explain why they don't like someone. when someone says "he seems like a prick" about someone, and you ask "how so?" they'll often just reply with "I don't know, he just comes across as a prick". Whereas with me I'd always be able to put my finger on why I think someone is a particular way. Here's an example of a video on such:

I find it so funny the way everyone thinks they're not interested in this sort of stuff, but yet we're very responsive it. We'll watch people have an argument to see who wins, we love to hear a good joke. But yet if spoke out loud about trying to dissect why someone is charismatic in order to see what traits a person has that might fit your personality, people would crucify you!

The real answer, (if you're serious) is that neurotypicals hate admitting their privilege.
I don't know why this is, but its definitely true: they will go to any lengths to avoid admitting that social rules and shibboleths govern all their decisions.
Take it or leave it, that's my opinion from a lifetime of observation.

Harry Palmr

If you want social status to boost your psychological comfort - just make sure you're the A in a C group or B in a D group and so on. Obviously you'll need to be an utter cvnt to spend the time seeking out this cohort and inveigle yourself.

It's like the man who picks up what are termed "mingers" (I believe) for a good time.

Day Lewin

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If you want social status to boost your psychological comfort - just make sure you're the A in a C group or B in a D group and so on. Obviously you'll need to be an utter cvnt to spend the time seeking out this cohort and inveigle yourself.

It's like the man who picks up what are termed "mingers" (I believe) for a good time.

Exceedingly cryptic.
What language is this?

Leg End Reject

Day Lewin wrote: »

Exceedingly cryptic.
What language is this?

It basically means socialise with people society (or you) would deem as "beneath" you, lower socio-economic status, less educated etc.

A crude way of feeling superior if lacking in confidence. I'm not saying that applies to that poster, but that's how I interpreted his point. He has acknowledged it's not a positive trait.