When is a loan not a loan

Glebee

If i give you a loan of 20euro, i expect to get 20 euro back. Maybe not.


https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2020/0302/1119698-mcnamara-lowe-debts/

moonage

A bank loan causes the money "loaned" to pop into existence.

So, in a way, a bank loan isn't really a loan because that money didn't exist before the loan. It's all a bit of a scam really.

Your Face

At least they're engaging with the process.

nthclare

If you're attractive and part of the click you don't need to worry about financial issues.

There's ways and means of getting off the hook.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

nthclare wrote: »

If you're attractive and part of the click you don't need to worry about financial issues.

There's ways and means of getting off the hook.

You need to go to Specsavers if you find Frank McNamara attractive!

nthclare

Tara Unimportant Pedometer wrote: »

You need to go to Specsavers if you find Frank McNamara attractive!

Are calling me a liar lol

Icaras

Tara Unimportant Pedometer wrote: »

You need to go to Specsavers if you find Frank McNamara attractive!

He does have a lovely personality.

Guy:Incognito

Banks should just end the use of family homes as collateral, seeing as judges are unwilling to let them actually take the collateral the person themselves willfully put up.

nthclare

I think the banks are inept with the decisions they made themselves.

Instead of the people who took out these stupid loans getting hammered I think the banks are at fault to be honest.

They were approving loans for people who hadn't even the salary to support the amount they were supposed to pay back.

I knew a guy who was on a Community Employment scheme who got a loan of 250,000 off some numpty in the bank of Ireland and the sums didn't add up ffs

BeerWolf

moonage wrote: »

A bank loan causes the money "loaned" to pop into existence.

So, in a way, a bank loan isn't really a loan because that money didn't exist before the loan. It's all a bit of a scam really.

But let me charge interest anyway! Meanwhile others get arrested for counterfeiting... :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

nthclare wrote: »

I think the banks are inept with the decisions they made themselves.

Instead of the people who took out these stupid loans getting hammered I think the banks are at fault to be honest.

They were approving loans for people who hadn't even the salary to support the amount they were supposed to pay back.

I knew a guy who was on a Community Employment scheme who got a loan of 250,000 off some numpty in the bank of Ireland and the sums didn't add up ffs

The idea of the collateral is the bank have a failsafe. You don't pay the loan, they take the house. It should be a formality that you're out on your ear if you don't pay.

moonage

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The idea of the collateral is the bank have a failsafe. You don't pay the loan, they take the house. It should be a formality that you're out on your ear if you don't pay.

The bank gets to take the house even though the loan created the money in the first place. What a system!

un5byh7sqpd2x0

moonage wrote: »

The bank gets to take the house even though the loan created the money in the first place. What a system!

No, you’ve a very poor understanding of how banking works. Banks don’t magic money of of the air for loans

Guy:Incognito

moonage wrote: »

The bank gets to take the house even though the loan created the money in the first place. What a system!

Why don't you test the system then. Find a stranger thats looking for a house, then give them yours on the promise they'll pay you an agreed amount for the next 30 years.

Add in that if at any point they can't/won't pay the money anymore, you probably won't get your house back.

nthclare

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why don't you test the system then. Find a stranger thats looking for a house, then give them yours on the promise they'll pay you an agreed amount for the next 30 years.

Add in that if at any point they can't/won't pay the koneh anymore, you probably won't get your house back.

He's probably not regulated to suit certain agenda's.

There barristers out there who know how to rail road the system.

Even a misquoted paragraph could turn a whole case on its head...

I've seen it

dotsman

moonage wrote: »

A bank loan causes the money "loaned" to pop into existence.

So, in a way, a bank loan isn't really a loan because that money didn't exist before the loan. It's all a bit of a scam really.

BeerWolf wrote: »

But let me charge interest anyway! Meanwhile others get arrested for counterfeiting... :rolleyes:

moonage wrote: »

The bank gets to take the house even though the loan created the money in the first place. What a system!

When you know nothing about what you are talking about, it's best to keep quiet...


...unless you are a freeman. Then it's your duty to spout $hite.

wexandproud

dotsman wrote: »

When you know nothing about what you are talking about, it's best to keep quiet...


...unless you are a freeman. Then it's your duty to spout $hite.

you know what they say .'' when you don't what your talking about it's better to keep your mouth closed and have people THINK you a fool , than to open it and remove all doubt.

Ubbquittious

dotsman wrote: »

When you know nothing about what you are talking about, it's best to keep quiet...


...unless you are a freeman. Then it's your duty to spout $hite.

If the bank doesnt pop the money into existence who does?

The Tetrarch

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If the bank doesnt pop the money into existence who does?

In your world where banks magic up money why do they even lend it?
The banks should stop lending and instead buy everything in Ireland.

You should call in to BOI head office and advise them.

CarrickMcJoe

Icaras wrote: »

He does have a lovely personality.

And a lovely pianist!

moonage

The Tetrarch wrote: »

In your world where banks magic up money why do they even lend it?
The banks should stop lending and instead buy everything in Ireland.

You should call in to BOI head office and advise them.

They don't magic up money and then lend it.

The "granting" of a loan creates the money.

Bubbaclaus

moonage wrote: »

A bank loan causes the money "loaned" to pop into existence.

So, in a way, a bank loan isn't really a loan because that money didn't exist before the loan. It's all a bit of a scam really.

You appear to be confusing a central bank, such as the ECB for the Euro, with a commercial bank.

A commercial bank cannot create money.

Ubbquittious

The Tetrarch wrote: »

In your world where banks magic up money why do they even lend it?
The banks should stop lending and instead buy everything in Ireland.

You should call in to BOI head office and advise them.

You be better off dropping the condescending 'in your world' sh1te when you dont seem to have a clue yourself

moonage

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You appear to be confusing a central bank, such as the ECB for the Euro, with a commercial bank.

A commercial bank cannot create money.

Commercial banks can create money, under central bank constraints.

Bikerman2019

Different views, all valid, but here is a new one.


F**k you vulture fund. Making money out of peoples difficulty.


Hope you enjoy this kick in the ass.

Quantum Erasure

Mariohario wrote: »

Commercial banks create debits and credits, they don't create actual money.

Are we talking about the actual paper/cotton notes here, and metal coins? Don't think they're produced in the central bank either...

The Tetrarch

Ubbquittious wrote: »

You be better off dropping the condescending 'in your world' sh1te when you dont seem to have a clue yourself

Banks maintain reserves and their lending is limited by the reserves they hold.

Bikerman2019

Mariohario wrote: »

So called "Vulture Funds" are generally good for an economy. Why should a fund not be allowed to buy property? The property is still available for people or companies to rent.

They didnt buy property. They bought debt, debt that people in difficulty could not repay and their agenda is to repossess or screw every cent out of it, no matter what.


This is a kick in their hole.

moonage

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Banks maintain reserves and their lending is limited by the reserves they hold.

Yes, the amount of money they can create (i.e. lend) is limited by their reserves.


“The process by which money is created is so simple that the mind is repelled.”

― John Kenneth Galbraith, Money: Whence It Came, Where It Went

imme

Don't worry Sinn Fëin will be burning their effigies at their Changeable March next Saturday.

Seriously though, it is unbelievable.

DaveyDave

Any vulture funds I've read buying loans are generally ones that haven't been paid a cent in 5-10 years.

Is there many cases of people attempting to pay their loans and work with banks who are sold off to vulture funds?

Ubbquittious

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Banks maintain reserves and their lending is limited by the reserves they hold.

Which amounts to the same thing. If I want to lend a fiver I need to actually have one. Banks through banking license granted using Garret Fitzgerald's ceremonial sword dipped in the blood of a thousand virgins can lend the same fiver more than once

NIMAN

They do say that the more you owe the more chance you have of getting off with not paying.

Owe 3mill, might get away with it.
Owe 100mill, you definitely will.

Owe 100k, the bank'll get you.

NIMAN

Mariohario wrote: »

Do you think a bank will happily let someone take 100 million from them?

Some property developers in Ireland left debts of that and more.

Quantum Erasure

Mariohario wrote: »

Banks lend out money they've received from depositors, they don't create the money using magic.

look it up, check it out

Zebra3

Mariohario wrote: »

Do you think the banks were happy to lose that money?

The banks stood to profit if all went well, but we all know who footed the losses.

the.red.baron

Mariohario wrote: »

It's amazing their return on equity is so low if they're able to create money. Surely they could create profits for themselves if that was the case.

That's the central bank rules

How do you reckon most banks make a fine healthy profit on such low margins of interest

Charging close to inflation rates of interest

Perhaps you should actually look it up yourself as you are so smart

Money is made up all the time, inflating away it's worth

Quantum Erasure

Mariohario wrote: »

It's amazing their return on equity is so low if they're able to create money. Surely they could create profits for themselves if that was the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation

Many economists and bankers now realize that the amount of money in circulation is limited only by the demand for loans, not by reserve requirements
...The amount of money that is created in this way when a loan is issued is equal to the principal of the loan, but the money needed for paying the compound interest of the loan has not been created. As a consequence of this process, the amount of debt in the world exceeds the total money supply.

interest on debt = profit for the bank

redcup342

The whole system is a bit f*cked though, you are basically penalised for saving money.

Were getting to the point of Negative Interest, you can be insolvent and live a decent life yet be debt free and live like a pauper.

Antares35

It's a loan when it's €3,000.

If it's €3,000,000 however, this is a gift apparently.

weldoninhio

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

They didnt buy property. They bought debt, debt that people in difficulty could not repay and their agenda is to repossess or screw every cent out of it, no matter what.


This is a kick in their hole.

How come vulture funds in Ireland have much lower rates of repossession than the banks??

"Banks were nearly five times more likely to repossess houses in long-term arrears than so-called vulture funds in the first quarter of 2018."




https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/banks-more-likely-to-repossess-homes-than-vulture-funds-1.3594003