Irish Citizenship

tonysopprano

Requirements:

he or she was born in the island of Ireland;

at least one of his or her parents was born in the island of Ireland;
or

he or she had been ordinarily resident in the island of Ireland for at least seven years;


How can Charlie Flanagan et al, confer citizenship on more than 20,000 people per annum, rising every year, as per criteria above?

An Ciarraioch

Because they have been living here long enough to qualify for naturalisation, and are forking out €1,200 each for the privilege.

endacl

Because more than 20000 people per annum fulfil the criteria, apply, and pay the fee?

yerwanthere123

Really? Complaining about naturalisation?

Pinch Flat

You do realise other countries run similar citizenship programmes with similar criteria to us?

tonysopprano

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

tonysopprano

Pinch Flat wrote: »

You do realise other countries run similar citizenship programmes with similar criteria to us?

Who said anything about other countries?. Read the title

Cilldara_2000

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

If only there was some organisation that kept track of this sort of thing. You could call them the Central Statistics Office. Shame it doesn't exist.

Educate yourself before making a show of yourself on the internet: https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2019/

biko

I don't see the problem OP.
It seems a perfectly functional naturalisation system.

Alun

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

There's been a sudden upturn recently in UK citizens, such as myself, who have lived here often well in excess of the 7 year requirement, in my case nearly 20 years. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to guess the reason.

Pinch Flat

tonysopprano wrote: »

Who said anything about other countries?. Read the title

Ah ok. Is is just about people of different skin colour that irks you? Could you maybe clarify exactly what your issue is?

Hoboo

Alun wrote: »

There's been a sudden upturn recently in UK citizens, such as myself, who have lived here often well in excess of the 7 year requirement, in my case nearly 20 years. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to guess the reason.

Because it took you that long to realise to even just claim to be Irish is the greatest thing in the world?

Welcome aboard Ailín!

Alun

Hoboo wrote: »

Because it took you that long to realise to even just claim to be Irish is the greatest thing in the world?

I haven't actually got around to going through the whole rigmarole yet actually partly because of the ridiculous cost, and also because I hate filling in forms, but I'll probably get around to it soon.

Welcome aboard Ailín!

My name is Celtic enough already, thanks

Lonesomerhodes

tonysopprano wrote: »

Requirements:

he or she was born in the island of Ireland;

at least one of his or her parents was born in the island of Ireland;
or

he or she had been ordinarily resident in the island of Ireland for at least seven years;


How can Charlie Flanagan et al, confer citizenship on more than 20,000 people per annum, rising every year, as per criteria above?

They hand citizenship willy nilly now, thrown around like confetti at a wedding.

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left/socialists believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

KiKi III

A friend of mine has been living here for 13 years and got citizenship last year. She is from a non-EU European country, and works in the medical sector. She has a kid here who is Irish, and since married her Irish partner.

The amount of paperwork she had to do was mad. Years and years of bank statements, proof of address etc along with references of which I was one.

And then the €1,200.

alastair

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

Just a reminder - the far-right, and their anti-Semitic conspiracy guff, should generally be easily distinguished from the far left.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalergi_Plan

Yurt2

KiKi III wrote: »

A friend of mine has been living here for 13 years and got citizenship last year. She is from a non-EU European country, and works in the medical sector. She has a kid here who is Irish, and since married her Irish partner.

The amount of paperwork she had to do was mad. Years and years of bank statements, proof of address etc along with references of which I was one.

And then the €1,200.

What would you suggest? There should be a high bar. In places like Denmark one has to do an examination on society, traditions, democracy and a proficiency test in Danish.

In Switzerland, in certain Cantons, Swiss can petition against individuals getting nationality. I recall a case in the media when a mouthy activist Swede (I think) was refused Swiss nationality as the entire town thought she was a pain in the a*s and petitioned against her.

KiKi III

Yurt! wrote: »

What would you suggest? There should be a high bar. In places like Denmark one has to do an examination on society, traditions, democracy and a proficiency test in Danish.

In Switzerland, in certain Cantons, Swiss can petition against individuals getting nationality. I recall a case in the media when a mouthy activist Swede (I think) was refused Swiss nationality as the entire town thought she was a pain in the a*s and petitioned against her.

I was moreso just trying to counter the idea the OP is suggesting that someone can just show up here and get an Irish passport by the day after tomorrow.

Alun

KiKi III wrote: »

A friend of mine has been living here for 13 years and got citizenship last year. She is from a non-EU European country, and works in the medical sector. She has a kid here who is Irish, and since married her Irish partner.

The amount of paperwork she had to do was mad. Years and years of bank statements, proof of address etc along with references of which I was one.

And then the €1,200.

Yes, the amount of paperwork they look for is insane. One mistake as well, and you're refused and back to square one. Maybe there ought to be an easier and cheaper fast-track option for uncomplicated cases from the UK and EU?

On the other hand, my brother-in-law, whose father was Irish and moved to the UK as a 16 year old using a passport he had stolen from an older cousin with the same name got an Irish passport merely by filling in a single form, go figure.

Pauliedragon

tonysopprano wrote: »

Requirements:

he or she was born in the island of Ireland;

at least one of his or her parents was born in the island of Ireland;
or

he or she had been ordinarily resident in the island of Ireland for at least seven years;


How can Charlie Flanagan et al, confer citizenship on more than 20,000 people per annum, rising every year, as per criteria above?

It sounds by your post your not too happy with the current situation regarding newly naturalised citizens OP. Just out of curiosity what would you change?

simongurnick

Is it 1200 for all cases or just residency? I have kids born outside the country and would like them to be dual citizens at some point

alastair

simongurnick wrote: »

Is it 1200 for all cases or just residency? I have kids born outside the country and would like them to be dual citizens at some point

If you’re Irish then they have automatic right to Irish citizenship too. They don’t go through the naturalisation process.

Boggles

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

90% of us would be out the gate.

Lonesomerhodes

Boggles wrote: »

90% of us would be out the gate.

Haha. :cool:

osarusan

Yes, what Current Affairs needs is more threads about foreigners.

tonysopprano

Pauliedragon wrote: »

It sounds by your post your not too happy with the current situation regarding newly naturalised citizens OP. Just out of curiosity what would you change?

As an example,

I come to Ireland in 2010, illegally or otherwise, but get asylum rights et al till 2017, (and because of this get citizenship), and work and pay tax till I reach 67 (or 68 or whatever the retirement age may be)

I qualify for the FULL PENSION PAYMENT

BUT

An irish person who only worked and paid taxes for 39 years cannot get the full payment

alastair

tonysopprano wrote: »

As an example,

I come to Ireland in 2010, illegally or otherwise, but get asylum rights et al till 2017, (and because of this get citizenship), and work and pay tax till I reach 67 (or 68 or whatever the retirement age may be)

I qualify for the FULL PENSION PAYMENT

BUT

An irish person who only worked and paid taxes for 39 years cannot get the full payment

Eh?

Both of them are entitled to non-contributory pensions, and Mr/Ms 39 Years may well be entitled to a contributory pension, depending where he worked those years. Ex asylum seeker might too - depending how many years, and in what capacity s/he works.

skooterblue2

simongurnick wrote: »

Is it 1200 for all cases or just residency? I have kids born outside the country and would like them to be dual citizens at some point

I guess you were too young to remember the days in the 1980's when you could get an Irish passport for a a £1,000,000 investment. Now in no way was it sold. At the same time Michael Collins grand niece got married to a Canadian and he could get a passport but not citizenship and he was a computer programmer.

Messed up crap

Cordell

Yurt! wrote: »

What would you suggest? There should be a high bar. In places like Denmark one has to do an examination on society, traditions, democracy and a proficiency test in Danish.

I would rather have that than the heap of paperwork that puts me away from it every time I consider applying.

Yurt! wrote: »

In Switzerland, in certain Cantons, Swiss can petition against individuals getting nationality. I recall a case in the media when a mouthy activist Swede (I think) was refused Swiss nationality as the entire town thought she was a pain in the a*s and petitioned against her.

Not a bad idea, not at all. Ask the neighbors:
-is he a cnt?
-no, he's an absolute gentleman <approved>
-I wouldn't quite call him...<denied>

MrStuffins

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Great idea.

Also, they should have to know how to Irish dance. And play the bodhran. And know the words to The Fields of Athenry. Let's have them learn all sorts of irrelevant sh*te that they'll never have to use.

Geuze

I've wondered about this.

If I live in Japan for 5-10 years, can I become Japanese?

Or does it hang on the difference between citizenship and nationality?

Clearly, many of the people awarded citizenship are not ethnically Irish / of Irish nationality.

If an African comes here as a bogus asylum-seeker, is given right to remain, lives here for several years, applies for naturalisation, and becomes an Irish citizen, they are clearly still an African.

But what about their future grandchildren?

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

simongurnick

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I guess you were too young to remember the days in the 1980's when you could get an Irish passport for a a £1,000,000 investment. Now in no way was it sold. At the same time Michael Collins grand niece got married to a Canadian and he could get a passport but not citizenship and he was a computer programmer.

Messed up crap

It is
I hear Malta is making a few Bob these days selling their passport and citizenship

alastair

Geuze wrote: »

I've wondered about this.

If I live in Japan for 5-10 years, can I become Japanese?

Or does it hang on the difference between citizenship and nationality?

Clearly, many of the people awarded citizenship are not ethnically Irish / of Irish nationality.

If an African comes here as a bogus asylum-seeker, is given right to remain, lives here for several years, applies for naturalisation, and becomes an Irish citizen, they are clearly still an African.

But what about their future grandchildren?

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

Irish nationality - like Japanese nationality - has nothing to do with ethnicity. Ireland is not an ethno-State - and Irishness is not predicated on ethnicity.

Lonesomerhodes

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They hand citizenship willy nilly now, thrown around like confetti at a wedding.

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left/socialists believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

I know more foreign people who can speak Irish than Irish people who can speak Irish

Yurt2

Geuze wrote: »

I've wondered about this.

If I live in Japan for 5-10 years, can I become Japanese?

Or does it hang on the difference between citizenship and nationality?

Clearly, many of the people awarded citizenship are not ethnically Irish / of Irish nationality.

If an African comes here as a bogus asylum-seeker, is given right to remain, lives here for several years, applies for naturalisation, and becomes an Irish citizen, they are clearly still an African.

But what about their future grandchildren?

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

I once met an ethnically Persian / Iranian gent who was a Japanese citizen. He spoke very good Japanese obviously.

Whether your average Japanese person would recognize him as 100% Japanese is another matter. There's a surprising amount of 'foreigners' that have settled in Japan over the decades.

An Ciarraioch

DubInMeath wrote: »

I know more foreign people who can speak Irish than Irish people who can speak Irish

Some of them even broadcast in Irish:

https://twitter.com/olamajekodunmi1/status/1233776777627041795

splinter65

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

Not being reliant on SW is not a condition of citizenship.

Geuze

Geuze wrote: »

Should citizenship be restricted to Celtic people?

But why?

splinter65

tonysopprano wrote: »

As an example,

I come to Ireland in 2010, illegally or otherwise, but get asylum rights et al till 2017, (and because of this get citizenship), and work and pay tax till I reach 67 (or 68 or whatever the retirement age may be)

I qualify for the FULL PENSION PAYMENT

BUT

An irish person who only worked and paid taxes for 39 years cannot get the full payment

But you wouldn’t get citizenship in 2017 if you came here illegally in 2010 and remained here illegally since 2010.
You don’t know anything about applying for citizenship and your talking through your Swiss roll but go ahead and I’ll keep correcting you.

splinter65

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They hand citizenship willy nilly now, thrown around like confetti at a wedding.

Should have to be able to speak Irish to become an Irish citizen.

Well the far left/socialists believe it's a plan to destroy Europe and white folk.
Interesting reading, I don't go in for these conspiracies only the far left do!.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Idealism-Kalergi-destroy-European/dp/1913057097

It’s not the far left that believe it’s a plan to destroy Europe it’s the far right. Please continue talking ****e though.

splinter65

simongurnick wrote: »

Is it 1200 for all cases or just residency? I have kids born outside the country and would like them to be dual citizens at some point

If you are Irish then your children are Irish and a passport for each of them costs 25€

splinter65

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Haha. :cool:

Is that “haha”Irish? Can you translate it to English. I’m assuming that you speak fluent Irish if you expect all Irish citizens to be Gaelgoirs...

Alun

Cordell wrote: »

I would rather have that than the heap of paperwork that puts me away from it every time I consider applying.

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Yurt2

Alun wrote: »

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Both Ireland and the UK have rejected a national ID card that is common in European countries that would facilitate such registration.

splinter65

Alun wrote: »

Me too. In most European countries, apart from the UK and Ireland everyone, natives included, have to register with their local town hall or equivalent. That's all the proof you need that you've been resident for that period, not having to produce reams and reams of bank statements and letters like you do here.

Having dealt with the citizenship section for 15 years it is the one Dept where I can put my hand on my heart and say that the whole approach from the top down is to put every possible bar in your way to being awarded citizenship.

Maewyn Succat

tonysopprano wrote: »

Really?.

20000 people per annum, immigrate into Ireland, without being a burden on social welfare or claiming any welfare or housing allowances, and then legally work and pay all taxes and social contributions and then become citizens?

Hey, if this is the way, why then do we have to pay more taxes every year, rather than less?

How many people retire, leave the work force or emigrate every year?

Alun

splinter65 wrote: »

Having dealt with the citizenship section for 15 years it is the one Dept where I can put my hand on my heart and say that the whole approach from the top down is to put every possible bar in your way to being awarded citizenship.

Yes, the whole process is unnecessarily long-winded and adversarial. Just reading through the form and the accompanying explanations makes you feel as if they're trying to catch you out and trip you up with warnings about not filling in the form correctly or not sending some vital piece of information rather than trying to help you.

lawred2

tonysopprano wrote: »

Who said anything about other countries?. Read the title

What are you hoping for here?

positron

tonysopprano wrote: »

Requirements:


he or she had been ordinarily resident in the island of Ireland for at least seven years;

Just being a resident will NOT qualify you for citizenship.

They use the term "reckonable residence". You need five years of "reckonable residence".

If you spend X many years here as a student, that does NOT count towards reckonable residence. Part-time working or not, it does not count.

Time spent waiting for asylum application to be considered / reviewed also does not count towards reckonable residence.

If you are here illegally somehow, that also doesn't help, obviously.

There's also garda vetting that you have to clear. Any bad marks, criminal record or even regular traffic offences will get pulled up and you will get rejected.

You also need multiple references - to show you know other Irish citizens, and they will vouch for you.

I think it's a more than fair system. Very expensive though, and asks for metric ton of paperwork as well.

The Swiss system where in certain cantons, locals having a say on each application - that sounds interesting. I wonder if the same locals have the power to reject or 'deport' bad apples, irrespective of their citizenship status. We could really use that system here..!

lawred2

My wife, from the UK, has paid about a quarter of a million in tax over the last 11 years or so where she's been resident here.

I think she'll have earned it when she inevitably applies.

splinter65

lawred2 wrote: »

My wife, from the UK, has paid about a quarter of a million in tax over the last 11 years or so where she's been resident here.

I think she'll have earned it when she inevitably applies.

Tip. She should apply on the grounds of residency not marriage to you.
If she applies on the marriage grounds then you both have to send all the proof of residency for 3 years whereas if she applies on residency it is just herself albeit for 5 years.