End of Afghanistan war

Gatling

Looks like we have officially seen the end of the war in Afghanistan today with joint agreements between the US , Afghanistan and the Taliban today ending American and NATOs involvement.
All US and NATO troops to withdraw completely in the next 14 months.
The deal agrees the complete withdrawal of US and Nato troops within 14 months and the US undertakes to refrain from the use of force against Afghanistan or intervening in domestic affairs.

Seems it was win /win for the Taliban and all loss for Afghanistan and it's people


https://news.sky.com/story/us-and-taliban-sign-historic-peace-agreement-hailed-as-momentous-day-11946209

Hande hoche!

After close to twenty years can understand the Americans wanting to withdraw.

BanditLuke

Yeah well Trump did say he wanted out so i guess this is it. For me it looks like a defeat and the abandonment of the Afgan people.

Remember an interview years ago with a Taliban commander in which the interviewer asked him what's there strategy to defeat the Americans, he went on to simply say "They have the clock and we have forever".

Montage of Feck

What an absolute waste for it to come to this with the Taliban back in control of Afghanistan! To think it only took some intelligence and a single seal team to eventually get Ben Laden in Pakistan.

Muahahaha

So whats the deal? Sounds like the Taliban get to continue on supplying the global heroin trade and the Americans get to avoid more dead soldiers. Pretty much sums it up, its been a complete foreign policy misadventure by the Americans from the offing.

TheValeyard

Muahahaha wrote: »

So whats the deal? Sounds like the Taliban get to continue on supplying the global heroin trade and the Americans get to avoid more dead soldiers. Pretty much sums it up, its been a complete foreign policy misadventure by the Americans from the offing.

Didn't the Taliban originally completely stamp out the heroin trade?

ceadaoin.

It's just like homeland. That show really gets it spot on sometimes

jam_mac_jam

Well what a complete waste of time, money and lives that was.

tillyfilly

18 years , it proves NATO is more durable than Russia and that's about it

RichardoKhan

I'm sure the Women in Afghanistan are delighted!

gbo1967

They should’ve gone in after the World Trade Center, took out the Taliban government and used intelligence to find Bin Laden and then leave.

This all could’ve been finished by 2003 but no.

gw80

RichardoKhan wrote: »

I'm sure the Women in Afghanistan are delighted!

You can't impose change on a nation or country by force, it has to come from within.
Afghanistan being a prime example.

SEPT 23 1989

History will be very kind to Trump

TheValeyard

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's just like homeland. That show really gets it spot on sometimes

Yeah, scarily close to the show.

Call Me Jimmy

BanditLuke wrote: »

Yeah well Trump did say he wanted out so i guess this is it. For me it looks like a defeat and the abandonment of the Afgan people.

Remember an interview years ago with a Taliban commander in which the interviewer asked him what's there strategy to defeat the Americans, he went on to simply say "They have the clock and we have forever".

And the Americans couldn't stay there forever.

the_syco

I wonder will the Americans stop going there, or will operations that happen there just not be done officially?

Homelander

It's genuinely almost scary how close Homeland is to all of this in the current season (and would've been filmed a fair period of time ago), though it's still playing out so we don't know where it'll end up.

Zico

9th Company

Muahahaha

TheValeyard wrote: »

Didn't the Taliban originally completely stamp out the heroin trade?

Dont think it was ever stamped out despite both the Taliban and the Americians claiming it was at various stages. It went from Taliban control to war lord control and then back to Taliban control when they needed it to fund the war against the US. Over 80% of the worlds heroin supply is coming from there these days and many top government officials are actually drug traffickers. Its a mess.

Montage of Feck

tillyfilly wrote: »

18 years , it proves NATO is more durable than Russia and that's about it

Ivan was doing a decent job before Rambo arrived with stinger missiles.

Jinglejangle69

This will last a few weeks and normal service resumed.

jmreire

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Ivan was doing a decent job before Rambo arrived with stinger missiles.

The biggest strategic mistake that the US ever made, was exactly that.... supplying stinger ( and other) missiles to the then Mujahideen, which enabled them to get the Russians out of Afghanistan.

skooterblue2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Over 80% of the worlds heroin supply is coming from there these days and many top government officials are actually drug traffickers. Its a mess.

All that matters is the Sacklers get their Opium. Dont worry the Chinese will be there a few weeks after the Americans leave.

jmreire

skooterblue2 wrote: »

All that matters is the Sacklers get their Opium. Dont worry the Chinese will be there a few weeks after the Americans leave.

They are already there,,,and have been for years, since 2013 officially, but much earlier than that. They have bought up more than an estimated $1 trillion worth of unexploited minerals and exploration rights there. Some of these sites contain priceless artifacts, dating from much earlier in history, and now under the control of the Chinese. Be interesting to see what the Taliban think of that arrangement ,,,,,,

skooterblue2

jmreire wrote: »

They have bought up more than an estimated $1 trillion worth of unexploited minerals and exploration rights there. Some of these sites contain priceless artifacts, dating from much earlier in history, and now under the control of the Chinese. Be interesting to see what the Taliban think of that arrangement ,,,,,,

Who says its priceless? Everyone has their price. Even the Taliban have a number its just a matter of negotiating it.

Victor

Hande hoche! wrote: »

After close to twenty years can understand the Americans wanting to withdraw.

Notably, there has been war in Afghanistan since at least 1978. Less that 17% of Afghans were born before then.

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Ivan was doing a decent job before Rambo arrived with stinger missiles.

There has been recent concern that Soviet casualties were much higher than published. Not to mention the 1 million Afghans that were killed in the 1980s.

jmreire

Muahahaha wrote: »

Dont think it was ever stamped out despite both the Taliban and the Americians claiming it was at various stages. It went from Taliban control to war lord control and then back to Taliban control when they needed it to fund the war against the US. Over 80% of the worlds heroin supply is coming from there these days and many top government officials are actually drug traffickers. Its a mess.

At one point, Mullah Omar forbade it..and his word was Law (even after his death) He considered it to be "Un-Islamic". But I'm pretty sure that after him, it was pretty much business as usual...

skooterblue2

jmreire wrote: »

At one point, Mullah Omar forbade it..and his word was Law (even after his death) He considered it to be "Un-Islamic". But I'm pretty sure that after him, it was pretty much business as usual...

Once again, some guy turns up with a suitcase of cash flanked by private contractor, you are going to be fairly amenable to talking and setting up supply lines.

jmreire

Muahahaha wrote: »

So whats the deal? Sounds like the Taliban get to continue on supplying the global heroin trade and the Americans get to avoid more dead soldiers. Pretty much sums it up, its been a complete foreign policy misadventure by the Americans from the offing.

The Taliban were asked to give up OBL, and they refused, so the Americans went in to capture him. Bear in mind, that after the twin tower's destruction, straight logical thinking went straight out the window, unless it concerned the capture and punishment of the "Mastermind" behind it. There were no other objective's in sight at that time.

jmreire

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Who says its priceless? Everyone has their price. Even the Taliban have a number its just a matter of negotiating it.

Maybe, but I would not consider the Taliban to be your ordinary business men...they will weight any deal according to their own criteria...and I would not take any bets that they will honor any deal's that they personally have not endorsed...and especially if any of these sites have Islamic significance. The previous Govt might have ( and most likely were ) been as corrupt as hell. But these guys are something else.

Gatling

jmreire wrote: »

The Taliban were asked to give up OBL, and they refused, so the Americans went in to capture him. Bear in mind, that after the twin tower's destruction, straight logical thinking went straight out the window, unless it concerned the capture and punishment of the "Mastermind" behind it. There were no other objective's in sight at that time.

One of their biggest mistakes we go in and a few weeks later we will wipe out ALQ and bin Laden and we go home victorious ,
18 years later fighting the Taliban , Pakistani intelligence services (who are American allies ) oh we will rebuild Afghanistan but can only control Kabul to a degree and little outside ,
Now they will withdraw and allow the Taliban and likely a new branch of isis to go to war again .

This won't end well at all

Victor

Gatling wrote: »

Pakistani intelligence services (who are American allies )

The Pakistani government and in particular the Inter-Services Intelligence like to keep their friends close and their enemies closer.

jmreire

Gatling wrote: »

One of their biggest mistakes we go in and a few weeks later we will wipe out ALQ and bin Laden and we go home victorious ,
18 years later fighting the Taliban , Pakistani intelligence services (who are American allies ) oh we will rebuild Afghanistan but can only control Kabul to a degree and little outside ,
Now they will withdraw and allow the Taliban and likely a new branch of isis to go to war again .

This won't end well at all

I don't see it ending well for the poor Afghan people.. but as the Taliban joining forces with isis?? I dont think so....isis are too set on being the lead agency, and the Taliban will never accept that..get rid of one "Boss" and find yourself with another, and possibly even worse one? If I remember rightly, isis tried that one time, with the Haqqani network, and got kicked out?
But maybe with AQL? They have form there. But the question is why would they need additional military back up? They will be in Government, and have access to all the levers of power...? unless they foresee trouble ahead when the US leaves? Now, that I could believe all right....where they were first welcomed for restoring peace after the Russians left, they alienated most of the Afghan people by their fanatical behavior, and I'm sure that people will not have forgotten that, despite what the "New" Taliban are promising ...time will soon tell,

Montage of Feck

Victor wrote: »

Notably, there has been war in Afghanistan since at least 1978. Less that 17% of Afghans were born before then.

There has been recent concern that Soviet casualties were much higher than published. Not to mention the 1 million Afghans that were killed in the 1980s.

Read something in Wikipedia that stated the red army had an even higher casualty rate in western Ukraine after WW ii at the hands of the Ukrainian Insurgant Army.

Montage of Feck

Victor wrote: »

Notably, there has been war in Afghanistan since at least 1978. Less that 17% of Afghans were born before then.

There has been recent concern that Soviet casualties were much higher than published. Not to mention the 1 million Afghans that were killed in the 1980s.

Read something in Wikipedia that stated the red army had an even higher casualty rate in western Ukraine after WW ii at the hands of the Ukrainian Insurgant Army.

ted1

Gatling wrote: »

Looks like we have officially seen the end of the war in Afghanistan today with joint agreements between the US , Afghanistan and the Taliban today ending American and NATOs involvement.
All US and NATO troops to withdraw completely in the next 14 months.
The deal agrees the complete withdrawal of US and Nato troops within 14 months and the US undertakes to refrain from the use of force against Afghanistan or intervening in domestic affairs.

Seems it was win /win for the Taliban and all loss for Afghanistan and it's people


https://news.sky.com/story/us-and-taliban-sign-historic-peace-agreement-hailed-as-momentous-day-11946209

We do not negotiate with terrorist.


The US lost to many lives and money and have no interest in ring there. Also an election coming up.

kildare lad

jmreire wrote: »

The biggest strategic mistake that the US ever made, was exactly that.... supplying stinger ( and other) missiles to the then Mujahideen, which enabled them to get the Russians out of Afghanistan.

The yanks seen it as payback at the time as the Russians helped the north Vietnamese during the Vietnam war

tuxy

Some of the US contractors and arms dealers much have made big money on this at some point.
So it's not a total loss or waste of time for everyone.

FTA69

Invade Afghanistan to depose the Taliban.

Fight for 20 odd years, tens of thousands of deaths.

Withdraw and do a deal leaving the Taliban in charge.

What a massive waste of life all around. The Americans really are something else.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Invade Afghanistan to depose the Taliban.

Fight for 20 odd years, tens of thousands of deaths.

Withdraw and do a deal leaving the Taliban in charge.

What a massive waste of life all around. The Americans really are something else.

To be fair, it's democracy... successive administrations need to manage the choices of previous administrations, whether it's to continue them, or stop them completely. All the while, the various lobbyists and corporations who wanted it to happen are still pushing in the background. Besides, it was more than just the Americans, since coalition forces were present with their own zones of control.

As for leaving with the Taliban in charge... conventional warfare/insurrection warfare cannot be effective unless you're willing to drop the niceties and engage in total war. You cannot stop the Taliban or any guerrilla based force without decimating the local population, and completely cutting the country from external aid. Complete suspension of human rights, and a ride towards barbarity. Which is something no western government can do.

Hopefully, we'll see the end of these doomed attempts by western governments. We simply don't have the will/determination, the laws, and the nastiness to effect such a win. Instead, it comes down to attrition, which western countries are always going to lose against.

Glad to see them leaving. My hope is that all western investments in the M.East/Africa end, and we leave it to them to sort themselves out.

conorhal

FTA69 wrote: »

Invade Afghanistan to depose the Taliban.

Fight for 20 odd years, tens of thousands of deaths.

Withdraw and do a deal leaving the Taliban in charge.

What a massive waste of life all around. The Americans really are something else.

Because the American's just showed up on a whim and the Afghan's possess no agency or hold any culpability for what went down at all?

It's not as if, in the wake of the worst terrorist atrocity in history, the Taliban government offered the worlds most dangerous terrorist group sanctuary within their borders and even made Bin Ladin an honorary government official just to piss off the yanks.

The Afghans decided it would be a good idea in the wake of 9-11 to perform the international diplomacy equivalent of standing drunk and shirtless in the street and hollering 'come at me bro!'.


The rest was pretty predictable.

pure.conya

Montage of Feck wrote: »

What an absolute waste for it to come to this with the Taliban back in control of Afghanistan! To think it only took some intelligence and a single seal team to eventually get Ben Laden in Pakistan.

it was all about the military industrial complex profits, mercinary armies, Afghani heroin supply 95% of the worlds demand

pure.conya

Muahahaha wrote: »

So whats the deal? Sounds like the Taliban get to continue on supplying the global heroin trade and the Americans get to avoid more dead soldiers. Pretty much sums it up, its been a complete foreign policy misadventure by the Americans from the offing.

the Taliban has all but eradicated heroin production before the americans went in due to saudis flying planes into the twin towers

pure.conya

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Well what a complete waste of time, money and lives that was.

it made a few people an obscene amount of money though

biko

It was wrong to enter Afghanistan.
It is now wrong to leave Afghanistan.


What do you want Afghanistan to look like before the US can leave?

skooterblue2

pure.conya wrote: »

it made a few people an obscene amount of money though

Carlisle Group, Haliburton, Black Water, Sackler family other private contractors all did well. I want to mention Executive Outcomes/ Sandline but have they reformed as something else?

Rufeo

Will the Taliban will be back in control?

skooterblue2

Rufeo wrote: »

Will the Taliban will be back in control?

As soon as the Americans are gone the Chinese will be in with friendly chinese social investments and suit cases of money. It begins again. Sackler family get opium and the game begins again.
The chinese will do all what they promise with social investments (hospitals, schools, administration and open mines) then they will try to impose their law (sound familiar) and the Afghans will revolt and back to the old games again.
The chinese will respond in kind after they survay the whole region. Stablisation force will arrive and investment protection plans (cleansing groups) will do their jobs and then China will be stuck in the same quagmire Alexander the Great, British, Russians and Americans found themselves in. (America/India/Russia/British will send support in the form of special weapons and advisor). Too much invested in to get out. The war will break the chinese state will get dragged down like Alexander the Great, British, Russians and Americans.

Just watch it play out. Some people never learn from history.

Gatling

skooterblue2 wrote: »

As soon as the Americans are gone the Chinese will be in with friendly chinese social investments and suit cases of money. It begins again. Sackler family get opium and the game begins again.
The chinese will do all what they promise with social investments (hospitals, schools, administration and open mines) then they will try to impose their law (sound familiar) and the Afghans will revolt and back to the old games again.
The chinese will respond in kind after they survay the whole region. Stablisation force will arrive and investment protection plans (cleansing groups) will do their jobs and then China will be stuck in the same quagmire Alexander the Great, British, Russians and Americans found themselves in. (America/India/Russia/British will send support in the form of special weapons and advisor). Too much invested in to get out. The war will break the chinese state will get dragged down like Alexander the Great, British, Russians and Americans.

Just watch it play out. Some people never learn from history.

Half expect a tibet situation ,

Chinese arrive build schools , hospitals (America/NATO did that did that to) and new cities to be populated with Chinese citizens to work on the Chinese interests only the Chinese will have control over their own citizens and the Taliban or other group won't find any support ,

skooterblue2

Gatling wrote: »

Half expect a tibet situation ,

Chinese arrive build schools , hospitals (America/NATO did that did that to) and new cities to be populated with Chinese citizens to work on the Chinese interests only the Chinese will have control over their own citizens and the Taliban or other group won't find any support ,

Afghanistan is different to Tibet. What you can do to Tibetan monks you will not do to Afghan Moghuls. They have never taken invaders lying down and when Chinese arrive to settle that is when the heat will really turn up. Afghanistan is a place best left alone.

riffmongous

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair, it's democracy... successive administrations need to manage the choices of previous administrations, whether it's to continue them, or stop them completely. All the while, the various lobbyists and corporations who wanted it to happen are still pushing in the background. Besides, it was more than just the Americans, since coalition forces were present with their own zones of control.

As for leaving with the Taliban in charge... conventional warfare/insurrection warfare cannot be effective unless you're willing to drop the niceties and engage in total war. You cannot stop the Taliban or any guerrilla based force without decimating the local population, and completely cutting the country from external aid. Complete suspension of human rights, and a ride towards barbarity. Which is something no western government can do.

Hopefully, we'll see the end of these doomed attempts by western governments. We simply don't have the will/determination, the laws, and the nastiness to effect such a win. Instead, it comes down to attrition, which western countries are always going to lose against.

Glad to see them leaving. My hope is that all western investments in the M.East/Africa end, and we leave it to them to sort themselves out.

Eh hold on, the Russians were plenty nasty and it didn't work out well for them either