General British politics discussion thread

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124062962#Comment_124062962

The PM suggesting that a protest is potentially in poor taste on a particular day is not "silencing" anyone.

It's an attempt to, which is what I said it was.

And with respects to the crimes of Palestine Action, they are minor on the scale of terrorist organisations, and existing trespassing, battery, arson laws were more than adequate to deal with them.

The government equated them with the worst terrorist organisations on the planet in its actions, I am simply saying they should have been prosecuted under existing laws. There is no "both sides" type angle to this.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124062973#Comment_124062973

You called their actions "minor criminal activities". They were not.

Asking people to consider their actions and applying absolutely zero state apparatus to stopping them is not silencing a god damn thing.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124062978#Comment_124062978

You called their actions "minor criminal activities". They were not.

Yes, they were, some planes painted with paint, some fences broken. These are not serious offences in the greater scheme of things.

Asking people to consider their actions and applying absolutely zero state apparatus to stopping them is not silencing a god damn thing.

For what is the 3rd time now I've said there were calls for the protests to not go ahead, and there were. I didn't say that the protests were silenced (although I maintain that was partly the intent of Palestine Action being prescribed). We could go further and discuss how insulting some of these calls were in that asked that people respect the grief of the Jewish community like it was more important than the grief within the Muslim community, which is why protests are being held. But this government, and the one before it has shown that it views grief and suffering through specific lenses and that is something that cannot be forgotten as an outcome of the last 2 years.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124062899#Comment_124062899

So if existing laws exist to deal with the criminality, being minor or not has no bearing on the ban

A Dub in Glasgo

What kind of government would do this? The kind of government that upholds international law and the rules based order or the kind who is part funded by Israel?

https://twitter.com/DropSiteNews/status/1999276023339159704

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124063851#Comment_124063851

Its simple, they're willing to undermine rules based international institutions at the behest of a country carrying out a genocide.

We've moved significantly closer to WW3 conditions in recent years, partly (and in no small way) because of the orange idiot in Washington, but also because of how other western countries have revealed the bias under which they are pontificating while protecting a country that attacked 7 others this year.

Im proud of how Ireland, as a country, upheld its values while others who traditionally have influenced us, lost the plot.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124063851#Comment_124063851

The hold that Israel has over western governments is something else. They would sooner trash the international order and rules based system rather than cut Israel adrift. Which leaves us in a dangerous situation moving forward.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064358#Comment_124064358

Is it Israel of some nation notion of themselves as great liberators after WWII. BBC seems to spend a huge amount of airtime defeating the Nazi's, while rarely touching on the explotive Empire that Britain had.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064378#Comment_124064378

It seems to be an 'establishment' thing in any event. Israel is mostly hated by the general public in most western countries (numerous opinion polls) - it's mainly the governments and media who are in hock to them.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064378#Comment_124064378

Most people in post-Imperial nations tend to be proud of said nations' empires, particularly older people. I'm not using that as a defence.

Funnily enough, I met a friend over the weekend. He's into his history and he went to a fee-paying school where his history education consisted of a bit about the Normans and a bit about WW2. I probed a bit and he was taught nothing about the Munich conference, the remilitarisation of the Rhineland, the Anschluss, Molotov-Ribbentrop or anything specific.

Randycove

has no one noticed that this alleged threat pre dates the current government, or is that just being conveniently ignored?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064504#Comment_124064504

Its been mentioned repeatedly that the subservience to Israel crosses party lines more than any other behavior.

For Labours Joan Ryan, see Tories Priti Patel, for Yvette Cooper, see Michael Gove.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124063851#Comment_124063851

Israel has far, far, too much influence over both US and UK politics. That much has been obvious for decades to people paying attention and is now being understood by casual observers. The questions are how and why.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064526#Comment_124064526

so conveniently ignored then.

Thanks for clarifying.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064546#Comment_124064546

What do you want, it added as a footnote on every post?

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064550#Comment_124064550

a conversation that is up to date and relevant would be a start. The UK government has stated it would stand by its legal obligations regarding international arrest warrants. I fail to see what the issue is.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064563#Comment_124064563

I fail to see what the issue is.

I'm sure you don't.

Tell me this, if the article is correct, and a British official made threats to the ICC about its funding if it proceeded with issuing an arrest warrant for Nethanyahu, is that something that you think is inconsequential, or worth discussing?

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064456#Comment_124064456

Years ago when we moved to England for my wifes career I considered teaching but when I viewed the basic history text I was very underwhelmed. It was all the greatest hits with only passing references to wars defending the Empire but not the means by which it was acquired.

I have a niece who taught history in a London school who was requested by her principle to stop supplying supplementary material explaining how the empire operated. It was raising too many concerns from the parents who had immigrated to England from the former empire and they didn't want their kids having a negative view. Whereas most English parents thought it was important that their kids knew that Britain had been a superpower.

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064602#Comment_124064602

it isn’t relevant though. The UK has a new government and dropped its opposition against the case nearly 18 months ago.
the poster who posted the article did so with the sole intention of trying to make this about the current UK government, once again demonstrating my point about different sources using this as a stick to beat Starmer with.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064668#Comment_124064668

it isn’t relevant though

It most certainly is. I dont know why it bothers you this fact been discussed.

And you have no knowledge as to why the poster posted it so I wouldn't go pretending you do like you're some sort of oracle.

Why does it being posted bother you?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064644#Comment_124064644

The level at which anything is taught in British schools has been a matter of debate for decades. I went to school in England in the 80's when we lived there for a bit and even as a lad I found the schooling to be shocking. The only subject that was actually taught to the pupils in anything approaching a method was English and the teacher we had was from Ireland! Maths was something to behold. The "teacher" for that subject would tell the pupils to turn to page whatever and do the sums…all the while he was at the top of the room picking his nose and eating it. He'd later mark the work saying whether the answer was correct or not and that was it. There was no actual teaching involved at any point. Geography was a farce, too, and so was history which barely touched on anything at all despite the fact that Britain has a very rich and interesting past. When we returned to Ireland I found a new respect for the education we receive in this country at second level.

As far as history is concerned and how it's taught in British schools, that subject used to be about how great the British Empire was. My mother was old enough to remember the pink empire maps and it was drummed into the class how great Britain was and how she ruled the world. In the early 20th Century that was actually the case. Britain was the only superpower, a situation that was only shattered after the Second World War when the US overtook a Britain that had bankrupted itself and was impotent against its dominions seeking independence. When the empire started to fall apart in the mid century, the focus of British history began to change and it started to look at itself as some sort of altruistic bulwark that "stood alone" against tyranny, conveniently forgetting that she was the tyrant to many other nations for centuries.

Although there is a relatively healthy collective memory within British society, British history is now one that's pivoted on WWII. This is because the myth of the war gives the British a way out of their own "misadventures" of the past and allows them to construct a more favourable view of themselves. Britain is still actually fighting the Second World War, although not to the degree that was when I was growing up and every week there was a war film on the BBC where John Mills would give Gerry a good seeing to.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064755#Comment_124064755

That's horrifying.

I still remember remarkably much of my Leaving Cert history but then I had an incredible teacher. My friend was properly jealous when I told him some of the stuff we did. Not bad for a few hours a week.

I'm inclined to agree on the Second World War point though it is ironic to see lads with Union Flags doing Nazi salutes at their white purity therapy sessions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064644#Comment_124064644

A teacher forced to discourage independent learning? That's horrible. I'm surprised this stuff didn't come from the English parents though.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064668#Comment_124064668

I posted it because it was published in the Guardian yesterday and thought it was relevant to the discussion on the complicity of UK governments (of various hues) in genocide.

Maybe you prefer this story which spans both Tory and Labour governments

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1999442919871414368

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064812#Comment_124064812

so what are you saying, the British told the IDF that there was an aid convoy and it should be attacked? Do you really think that the RAF are flying over Gaza picking out targets for thenIDF to attack?

Why? Why would they do that?

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064928#Comment_124064928

Looks like you did not even read the tweet or watch the video clip

Randycove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065025#Comment_124065025

I did. I sympathize with the family, but the MOD isnt going to release info unless forced to, as it sets a precedent.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124064755#Comment_124064755

Reminds me of the poem Timothy Winters;

When teacher speaks he won’t hear a word
And he shoots down dead the arithmetic-bird,
He licks the pattern from off the plate
And he’s not even heard of the Welfare State.

Two education systems, one for the canon fodder and one for the ruling class.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124065308#Comment_124065308

IIndeed. The students from families of means could expect a vastly different experience.

ancapailldorcha

Looks like the Daily Mail is now moaning about the Poles returning to their own country for lower taxes and a better standard of living.

This being the UK, nobody will ever ask if there was a constitutional event about 10 years ago that might have convinced them to leave or why the paper that laments national decline such a brass neck after the role it played in triggering catastrophe after catastrophe. Of course, this is to say nothing of the xenophobia the rags spewed in the years after the eastern countries joined the EU.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/124066798#Comment_124066798

The Brexit referendum debate (incredibly) was dominated by the issue of EU freedom of movement. Workers arriving from the EU were presented as a huge negative and 'burden' on the UK.