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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    There’s been rumours in the Tory press over the past couple of weeks that about 100 MPs on the right.of the party were plotting to oust Sunak. They were just waiting to agree on who to rally behind. Braverman was considered too unpopular among her fellow MPs. The Express were naming Priti Patel as the front-runner(hard to believe I know). So yeah, this could be the start of something alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,746 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    A heave against Sunak fronted by Priti Patel would be hysterically funny. Comedy gold!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Yep, the damage would be catastrophic. Then again, Sunak is now.less popular than Truss was with the general public and he is the least popular member of the cabinet among party members. As a purely damage limitation exercise is it better to stick or twist at this stage?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,746 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus



    Stick.

    It's not about the leader at this stage — in fact it hasn't been for a long time now. The Tories aren't heading for oblivion because people see Sunak as not sufficiently right-wing, or whatever; they're heading for oblivion because the party itself is seen as an ungovernable rabble, a 350-person arsewit carnival, a clown car that has burst into flames and is about to drive over a cliff. Part of the problem is the party's repeated dumping of poor leaders to replace them with even worse leaders. If doing this four times in the last 7 years has brought the party deeper and deeper into disrepute, even the dimmest Tory MP should be able to grasp that doing it a fifth time is going to exacerbate the problem, not fix it. And you have to assume that exacerbating the problem is in fact the intention of anyone proposing yet another putsch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    If Sunak's response to ease the pressure over the issues in the migration bill to those 100 MPs largely falls on deaf ears. Where does he go from here?

    He along with his new immigration minister has to put up an extremely credible argument as to why this migration bill has to be the best that the UK can go with at this time. I have no idea how an argument like this bill could become a successful one with Rishi Sunak at the helm as PM. However with me being very honest here; Rishi Sunak's time in government does appear that it could tip over the edge in time if he does not address them properly.

    Without me looking at every detail in how the bill is written up at the moment; this sounds like that the significant legal challenges which would probably come from the UNHCR and so on are not to go away from the government eyes and ears for a very long time if it's too tough for the public eye's and ears to take in right now. It sounds like this ongoing controversy with this migration bill could open a very significant door to go out of government at this point.

    If these legal challenges that come from these entities could become so fast and so frequent within the short term; it could implode the Tory government in No. 10 as we head closer to Christmas or maybe even after it. In an ideal situation; it implies to me that this government is telling everyone in the UK that this migration bill contains a significant ton of rubbish within it and needs to have a long hard rethink from scratch. But the Tory government are not thinking to have that rethink because to me that could signal in how they address their immigration policy in the near future.

    They don't want to admit to being failure with having this migration bill in their hands.

    The government just wanted to ram it through the HoC and the HoL by saying to hell with the consequences.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,748 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Thats because the general public didn't get enough time to remember her name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Press conference at 11am at Downing Street. Any guesses what he’ll say ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    My guess is an election. Jenrick leaving means others may do so and the party is an ungovernable mess at the moment.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,748 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Would be the best of Christmas presents. Would have plenty of drama to read and watch over the holidays.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yeah. I think I'm here for the long haul so the sooner the better. Was thinking of getting Omid Scobie's book but this might do instead.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,211 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I don't think a press conference within 10 Downing Street is used to call a GE. I think a GE is always a plinth outside the house affair, and it would be a statement, not a press conference.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    What a waste of time. It's just more twaddle about Rwanda. There's only so many times I can hear him say "I get it" and stay sane.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,748 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    He keeps banging on about Labour opposing the bill as if this will hang them out to dry.

    Do these fukwits live in such a bubble that they think Rwanda is actually the pressing issue in the country.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,225 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's all they have left. Literally out of ideas and just flailing about screaming Rwanda like, as you say, it's the most pressing issue. They have neither the maturity or self awareness to pull the trigger on an election cos maybe maybe maybe, this time demonising migrants will work?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yes. The thing with politicians is that they're obsessed with the press with the irony being that the press is at its least powerful in the history of this country. Rwanda was never meant to fix anything, it was performative cruelty for Tory voters who are obsessed with culture war issues. It's a bit like Brexit. They kept banging on and on about it and now they've reached the point where they're damned if they do and if they don't.

    If they do, the small boats will keep coming. Farage, Tice and co. make sure that people don't forget. If they don't, they look even more pathetic than they do right now.

    From YouGov:

    Any short term capital they might gain by pushing it through will evaporate upon the next boat landing and all Sunak can do is his best Musk impression.


    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,677 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Rwanda : they've gone stark raving mad. This scheme is all about deporting a few hundred people to there at some point in the next year or two.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,422 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The scheme isn't even that. The new treaty gives Rwanda the right to decide if they take a person or not, the UK government have to pay for housing et for 5 years if they are taken, and if they commit any crimes Rwanda can send them back to the UK. The UK has also agreed to take people from Rwanda, which a minister on LBC yesterday could not give any idea of the numbers and whether it was limited or not.

    Far from being a world commanding behemoth, the UK now finds itself being dictated to be Rwanda



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,489 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    This is where the UK is in the world.

    Speaking from Downing Street, Sunak said the bill included “notwithstanding clauses” which meant that lawyers would not be able to use the Human Rights Act to stop the government removing illegal migrants. “This bill blocks every single reason that has ever been used to stop flights to Rwanda taking off,” he said.

    Whatever about migrants and Rwanda, but to drive straight over things like the Human Rights Act and the ECHR sets a dangerous dangerous precedent.

    If Orban or Lukashenko did this, we'd be disgusted and say that it was fascist behaviour. There is no difference just because it is happening on our doorstep in a country in which some of the posters on this page live.

    The symbolism of the last 24 hrs, Johnson blubbering like a schoolboy at the Covid enquiry, Sunak bypassing the Human Rights act and the opening sequence of a BBC news show ending with the presenter giving the middle finger to the camera feels like an episode of a satire show like 'The Day Today' or something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's more like the opening montage to a dystopia film dealing with the aftermath of the collapse of UK democracy and the rise of fascism.

    May started the 'hostile environment' strategy to discourage immigration. That didn't work so instead of reforming the asylum process and building something sustainable that deals with the actual reality of 21st century post colonial Britain, they're just doubling down on more and more cruelty towards refugees to the point of utter absurdity.

    At this point, I'm not sure if I'd welcome a leadership heave by the likes of Patel or Braverman. It should absolutely destroy the party (a good thing) but given that poll above where 29% of the population still think the deportation scheme is workable, I worry that the UK isn't already too far down the rabbit hole and a government led by actual fascists wouldn't be able to take power



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,489 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    There's an article in Der Spiegel today I think saying that Germany's freedom rating is being downgraded from Open to restricted due to impositions placed on people protesting support of Palestine and also actions taken against climate protestors.

    Small scale and it is from a private entity (Civicus) which has been rating countries worldwide for the last few years, but still.

    Fairly ominous stuff when you put it all together with the likes of this in the UK and of course Braverman having to step down because of her recent views and words on protests. The climate protests aren't going anywhere, they've few friends in politics (at least at the influential end) yet and I'd say we're going to see restrictions increase before they start to be rolled back again in lots of places.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,225 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    May started the 'hostile environment' strategy to discourage immigration. That didn't work so instead of reforming the asylum process and building something sustainable that deals with the actual reality of 21st century post colonial Britain, they're just doubling down on more and more cruelty towards refugees to the point of utter absurdity

    Building things requires commitment, maturity and is a long, boring process that includes selective compassion. Why expend effort? Honestly our own government needs to rethink it's own process so people aren't left in tents in limbo - but we haven't fallen that far either.

    Maybe all this is like the consolation score to mask the 5-0 drubbing? Like, the Tories know they're toast and couldn't hope to appeal to any demographic - but appealing to the rabid xenophobes in little England should at least arrest a complete wipeout, which seems fated at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,304 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Labour have already said they will oppose this, When they do it gives the Tories soundbites to shout about how Labour are "pro immigration" in another vain attempt to keep their old/racist support for the next GE.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,677 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I see Starmer has received a very hostile response in Scotland over his non criticism of Israel and not calling for a ceasefire. Was harangued on the train up to Glasgow and has run into several different protests after arriving this evening.




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,658 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Dreadful intimidation.

    That must have been quite unsettling for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    As an aside, Somerset Capital (Rees-Mogg's outfit) is closing because so many clients have jumped ship. Doesn't make much difference but amusing nevertheless..



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,489 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Probably not as unsettling as a thousand lb bomb penetrating your apartment building.

    Which is why they were confronting him. He didn't handle it particularly well.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,225 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Standard disingenuous goalpost shifting though: a boilerplate bit of smartphone assisted public confrontation - the Scottish accent about as antagonistic as it got - but oh my, how dreadfully "unsettling". What do people think they can do: simply confront their public representatives on matters of concern? They should know their place! And a Northerner too, time was they'd doff their caps to their leaders.

    Not the least but surprised this user took that angle, so I'd pay no heed; it's standard rhetoric.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,658 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It's the intimidating type of protest we're seeing in Ireland unfortunately the last couple of years.

    It's undoubtedly uncomfortable, unsettling and scary for the politician at the centre of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,658 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Surprised you're trying to justify this level of protest (which achieves nothing and makes people sympathise with the politician) given the recent far right protests here.

    Just 2 weeks ago, Mary Lou experienced something similar in Eastwall. It was disgraceful.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is the actual party governing this country:

    I follow them on X and they've been heading towards this for a while. Even so, this is something I'd expect from your stereotypical angry man in a basement, not the party governing this country. I try and remind myself that there's decent people on both sides but this sort of cynical nonsense makes that really, really difficult.

    They're blatantly trying to pin their own stupidity, corruption and incomeptence on Labour. I always thought the Rwanda plan was nothing more than an exercise in performative racism. This was before I'd learned that it only covers a paltry few hundred people and the backlog is well over 100,000. It blows my mind that people will still vote for them. I've Tory cousins younger than me and they're disgusted by this sort of thing. It's fooling nobody though their mum would argue that it doesn't matter since "they're all the same anyway".

    For context, this BBC presenter was giving this gesture to colleagues as some kind of in-joke.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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