English People's attitude to Irish People

dublin2

After 25 years in the corporate world in Ireland and the UK, I have had literally hundreds of experiences of middle / upper class English people using verbal put downs of Irish people. After been incredulous and angry about it so many times, I have put it down to English people of those social classes genuinely and unthinkingly believing that they, as English people, are better than the Irish or French or whoever. I find it incredible in this day and age, but heard another one today.

I was at a large meeting in London and the speaker, a highly respected English accountant, from a corporate finance and stock brokerage firm, was talking about a company that he is working with to bring to the stock market.

And I quote ' the management of this firm are based in Ireland, notwithstanding this, they are an excellent prospect.'

Dictionary def of notwithstanding: in spite of

This guy knew there were Irish people in the audience. The only conclusion is that a huge percentage of English people genuinely think they are better than the Irish. (probably better than all other nationalities as they also look down terribly at the Welsh and Scottish)

Am I an outlier on this; or is this peoples experience of dealing with middle / upper class English people?

It really puts me off doing any business with the English and I would prefer to buy from almost any other country because of this.

mikhail

It's possible to be oversensitive to things like this. In this instance, he may simply have meant that it's more awkward to deal with a company whose management is based abroad. Or he might be a racist ****. It's simply not possible to tell from that lone statement.

joseywhales

It may have been a subtle joke, seeing that he knew the irish were in attendance. The only answer for this is to make snide remarks about the english, perhaps if you can slip in something about gdp per capita and if you think he is xenophobic, ask him if there are any English left in England and that it was a shame to see Pakistan leave the EU, to really rile him up. You have to give back at them, it's their humour.

Kermit.de.frog

Honestly OP - just tell him to **** off.

Seriously.

And move on.

Esel

Best anti-Paddy joke ever that will shut them up:

How long does it take an Englishwoman to have a shit?




















About 9 months.

Chris_Heilong

I think alot of then view use as country buskins, I remember them covering Sinn Fein running up to the election and it felt like they were portraying a very father ted style version of my country, it would shock some I would say when they find out we are better educated, more tech savvy and just as cosmopolitan as they are.

Xertz

There's definitely an element of assuming it's fine to throw barbed 'digs' in and that everyone is supposed to find them amusing. It happens sometimes in reference to people from other parts of England too, particularly 'up North'. Some of the stuff that's been said to Yorkshire colleagues of mine in London would really shock you including being greeted every morning with "Aey! Up!" and being repeatedly asked to pronounce "upper".

What used to annoy me quite a lot was things like being assumed to be catholic and thus some kind of religious prude. I'm non-religious, actually probably a devout atheist, but on occasion I found myself having to defend the various ridiculous accusations about how "your catholic guilt" etc.

I got called 'oi! pat!" once and once only! I simply played dumb and a US manager of mine was completely shocked someone would do that and took the guy apart.

Other than that the most shocking one ever was at a wedding. The groom was English and the bride was Irish. I was stuck at a table with some rather stuffy relatives of the groom and one of them came out with "Oh she's a lovely girl but it's a shame about her background."

Her background is that she's from a respectable family, two professional parents, has a couple of postgrads and is generally one of the nicest people you'd ever meet. So, I challenged the lady (or should I say xenophobic old bat) and asked her "what exactly do you mean by that?" ... "Ohhh.. it's just a shame that he couldn't have married a nice English lass."

I just said "I'm not going to make a scene as it's someone's wedding, but you should really consider drinking less as it seems to cause to you to become rather pass remarkable!" and I just completely blanked her for the rest of the dinner and got up and left. Absolutely unbelievable thing to say at someone's wedding.

Kermit.de.frog

Esel wrote: »

Best anti-Paddy joke ever that will shut them up:

How long does it take an Englishwoman to have a ****?




















About 9 months.

I don't get it

jam_mac_jam

Yes, there is a little bit of an attitude alright. Ah look they are so cute, with their funny little accents. While it wouldn't be acceptable to slag of an indian person's accent, it's fine with us and our little sense of humour. A lot of them don't even think we are a different country really.

There are arses everywhere it doesn't really bother me but it's interesting that it's still acceptable.

Thephantomsmask

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't get it

I think the joke is supposed to be that an English baby = a sh*t.

Esel

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't get it

Edited - thought I avoided the filter the first time. Sh!t.

Lefty Bicek

dublin2 wrote: »

After 25 years in the corporate world in Ireland and the UK, I have had literally hundreds of experiences of middle / upper class English people using verbal put downs of Irish people. After been incredulous and angry about it so many times, I have put it down to English people of those social classes genuinely and unthinkingly believing that they, as English people, are better than the Irish or French or whoever. I find it incredible in this day and age, but heard another one today.

I was at a large meeting in London and the speaker, a highly respected English accountant, from a corporate finance and stock brokerage firm, was talking about a company that he is working with to bring to the stock market.

And I quote ' the management of this firm are based in Ireland, notwithstanding this, they are an excellent prospect.'

Dictionary def of notwithstanding: in spite of

This guy knew there were Irish people in the audience. The only conclusion is that a huge percentage of English people genuinely think they are better than the Irish. (probably better than all other nationalities as they also look down terribly at the Welsh and Scottish)

Am I an outlier on this; or is this peoples experience of dealing with middle / upper class English people?

It really puts me off doing any business with the English and I would prefer to buy from almost any other country because of this.

I'm Irish, and offended by your assumption that I needed you to supply me with a dictionary definition of 'notwithstanding'.

Won't be doing business with you again.



To be serious - it is something I came across over the years, very particularly from older public school types. That's a demographic that is vanishing though.

Although I always assumed it meant as a joke, it rarely got the laughs. Never bothered me in the slightest anyway.

As long as you're making money, why give a fuk what they say ?

I would imagine English people living in Ireland for 25 years have heard a bit of off-the-cuff thoughtlessness.

Esel

Thephantomsmask wrote: »

I think the joke is supposed to be that an English baby = a sh*t.

English person, leave the baby out of it!

Most are sound but there's a streak through their population bridges education and social background that are just hostile to anyone not English and see themselves as superior for some deluded reason. Same as a few of the English posters on here.

We've unfortunately a few people who fit the same description also but not to the same extent from my experience living in the U.K. and from English friends living over here.

BlazingSaddler

Yet another England bashing thread. How original

Esel

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Yet another England bashing thread. How original

Tally ho.

BlazingSaddler

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Yet another England bashing thread. How original

Yet still too few.

joseywhales

In fairness, its not just english, it's universal, I've met it in the US, France, probably everywhere. People with low self esteem will always cling to exclusivity and put downs to give themselves some comfort in their pathetic empty existence. Why do you need such a person's regard is the question.

Lefty Bicek

Looks like there is no monopoly on idiot attitudes... what a sad reciprocity.

I'm out.

Esel

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Looks like there is no monopoly on idiot attitudes... what a sad reciprocity.

I'm out.

Reciprocity? Simple words only for us Micks please, your honour.

Bikeface

I remember being yaround 14 and at an auction with my father in south east England. He was having an issue with a machine he bought and really needed a hammer and to open a bolt to assist with loading for haulage. A hammer could not be got so I decided to get a rock to open the bolt.

This fella just arrives covered in either dark green or tweed and these big lumps of side burns. Out as loud as he can said, 'Look at paddys hammer and chisel'. Racism is sh*te.

lainey_d_123

My mother's side are English so I have the misfortune of spending a lot of time in the north of England (as little as possible these days). Always gets me how many people look down on Irish people...my mam's own parents nearly disowned her for marrying an Irish man because they thought he was so far beneath her...my mam's parents are uneducated, most of the family thick as pigsh1t, the type of people who read the tabloids and believe everything in them and yet they thought their daughter should be marrying an aristocrat or something.

Some delusion going on with the English, to say the least.

jaxxx

That's no surprise. Anyone watch Pointless? Whenever there's a question about Ireland (whether direct or indirect), the scores are always low. If you took a few random English people and asked them to name 3 cities in Ireland, I would bet most of them would struggle. On the flipside, if you asked someone here to name 10 cities in England, I would say most would be able to. Long and the short of it is, we know more than just our own history. About time they started doing the same.

Salary Negotiator

To be fair that type of English man doesn’t think much of his compatriots either.

Tom Mann Centuria

jaxxx wrote: »

That's no surprise. Anyone watch Pointless? Whenever there's a question about Ireland (whether direct or indirect), the scores are always low. If you took a few random English people and asked them to name 3 cities in Ireland, I would be most of them would struggle. On the flipside, if you asked someone here to name 10 cities in England, I would say most would be able to. Long and the short of it is, we know more than just our own history. About time they started doing the same.

You have a point, but Ireland gets much more exposure to the UK, couple of examples, the multitude of television channels and British sports teams. People in the UK don't get Irish channels and most don't follow Irish sports teams. Also, historically, migration (and therefore having relations in the country and knowing about the place where they were living) was Ireland to the UK.

Ragnar Lothbrok

I'm English, and moved to Ireland over 30 years ago when I was in my early 20s.

I can state categorically that there was (and to some extent, still is) a very casual attitude towards anti-Irish racism over there. Irish people were a by-word for stupid and unintelligent, not helped by the likes of so-called comedian Frank Carson and his "hilarious" Irish jokes. It was an accepted comedy routine of many comedians to use the "stupid Irish" as the butt of their Paddy jokes.

This attitude helped most English people to see the Irish as some sort of underclass or almost semi-human, and was one of the reasons that massive miscarriages of justice were allowed to be ignored in cases of the Birmingham Six etc. It's not even a class thing either, as I grew up in a very working class former coal mining area and the anti-Irish feeling was just as much in evidence there as it was among the OP's wealthier colleagues.

Going further back in time, these attitudes were again used in English publications at the time of the famine, which supported the idea that the famine was entirely the fault of the Irish people themselves as they were too lazy and/or stupid to eat anything apart from potatoes.

In a way, it's no wonder that many English people are so ill-informed about Ireland. I studied history at secondary school for seven years, followed by another two years at a teacher training college. Not once was Ireland ever mentioned, despite the fact that for my A-levels (Leaving Cert equivalent) we studied Oliver Cromwell for two whole years.

I was raised in a political household and our sympathies were very pro-Republican. Discussions with my friends and school mates about Ireland at the time (during the height of the Troubles) tended to end with them saying something along the lines of "It's a pity that the whole island can't be towed out into the middle of the Atlantic and sunk." There was not the slightest bit of knowledge or understanding of Britain's role in Ireland throughout history.

The anti-Irish feeling has perhaps become less noticeable since the Peace Process and Good Friday Agreement, but it's still common for jokes to be made about the stupid Irish.

Beasty

BlazingSaddler wrote: »

Yet another England bashing thread. How original

And not "Current Affairs"

Thread closed