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Speed camera van in pitch dark on the hard shoulder

  • 13-02-2020 8:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    Was heading down the M3 a few weeks ago... I was heading to Dublin and just passed the the toll... It was really foggy and in the hard shoulder was parked a speed camera van, no lights on, no signal that he/she was there...

    While I wasnt speeding I got curious considering the weather conditions... if I had a blow out and had to use the hard shoulder and went into the back of him trying to steer the car to safety... shouldn't he be visible if parked in an area that is used for emergency?

    Normally they are parked up around the area the road slows down to 100kmph, but this lad was ambitious and parked up maybe 1 km from the toll... I literally couldn't see him until I was on top of him (6am very foggy)

    I understand they are out to get folks speeding but with no risk assessment to randomly park on the hard shoulder I found strange..


    Thoughts?


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,315 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Dravokivich


    What's he meant to do with the fog? It's not in the operators interest to be hidden.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭✭ Cookiemunster


    I'm pretty sure it's illegal for him to be stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway. The Go Safe vans aren't immune to the ROTR.

    Even the guards have special laybys to park on rather than stop on the hard shoulder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    I'm pretty sure it's illegal for him to be stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway. The Go Safe vans aren't immune to the ROTR.

    Even the guards have special laybys to park on rather than stop on the hard shoulder.

    Would like to see that... Gard handing a go safe van a fine and penalty points


  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭ Orobhsa


    Sure they weren't parked in the laybye?

    I've seem them here on the 120KM section.

    https://goo.gl/maps/ZfhWLShXKViU2pxL9


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    Orobhsa wrote: »
    Sure they weren't parked in the laybye?

    I've seem them here on the 120KM section.

    https://goo.gl/maps/ZfhWLShXKViU2pxL9

    Pretty sure it was on the bend before the Damastown exit... dont think there is a layby there. Will check again when driving tomorrow


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭ donspeekinglesh


    Pretty sure it was on the bend before the Damastown exit... dont think there is a layby there. Will check again when driving tomorrow

    This is a common location for them:
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4221386,-6.4566987,3a,75y,35.49h,81.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOgc9nWgPGinbVl8tyY8njg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


  • Registered Users Posts: 920 Last Stop


    Would like to see that... Gard handing a go safe van a fine and penalty points

    https://i2-prod.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/article8365591.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/speeding-van-2.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ GM228


    I'm pretty sure it's illegal for him to be stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway. The Go Safe vans aren't immune to the ROTR.

    Even the guards have special laybys to park on rather than stop on the hard shoulder.

    Private speed vans are exempt from the traffic and parking regulations when in the performance of their duties (they have been since 30th August 2016).


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,913 ✭✭✭✭ Alun


    GM228 wrote: »
    Private speed vans are exempt from the traffic and parking regulations when in the performance of their duties (they have been since 30th August 2016).
    They're not exempt from the laws of physics that apply to everyone else though. Parking in the dark with no lights on a motorway hard shoulder is a stupid and dangerous thing to do, full stop, regardless of who you are or what the regulations are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    Have seen them using the Garda ramps on the M1.

    Can they do anything in the fog, though? Does their system work in heavy fog?

    Also, in relation to hitting him, you'd be at fault as he could simply be any other parked car. Though at the same time, are they not full of hi-vis chevrons at the rear?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,264 ✭✭✭ Damien360


    Pretty sure it was on the bend before the Damastown exit... dont think there is a layby there. Will check again when driving tomorrow

    It's always there. There is no layby. They are reasonably visible there but it is the hard shoulder.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    Damien360 wrote: »
    It's always there. There is no layby. They are reasonably visible there but it is the hard shoulder.

    If it's in the hard shoulder and it's a motorway they ain't allowed.

    The vans have stickers but are not reflective.

    I'd be putting in a complaint, that's pure stupidity and it's dangerous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭ GM228


    If it's in the hard shoulder and it's a motorway they ain't allowed.

    Legally they are allowed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    KKV wrote: »
    Have seen them using the Garda ramps on the M1.

    Can they do anything in the fog, though? Does their system work in heavy fog?

    Also, in relation to hitting him, you'd be at fault as he could simply be any other parked car. Though at the same time, are they not full of hi-vis chevrons at the rear?

    If I go into the back of him due to a blow out, and his face is up against a camera in the back of the van.... his next stop is the morgue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    I noticed there is one of those side posts with authorised vehicles only close to the area he was. In fairness if I was the camera guy and they located me there for the morning or any time, I would be telling them no.

    Clear day it's ok of a spot for visibility for the van... but still cars are right next to you doing 120 lol. How anyone could think ah ye be grand go on out there is beyond me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭ dowlingm


    I noticed there is one of those side posts with authorised vehicles only close to the area he was. In fairness if I was the camera guy and they located me there for the morning or any time, I would be telling them no.

    Clear day it's ok of a spot for visibility for the van... but still cars are right next to you doing 120 lol. How anyone could think ah ye be grand go on out there is beyond me.
    if visibility is that poor and cars are doing 120 isn’t there scope for a court entertaining a driving without due care charge?
    It’s a limit, not a target!


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    dowlingm wrote: »
    if visibility is that poor and cars are doing 120 isn’t there scope for a court entertaining a driving without due care charge?
    It’s a limit, not a target!

    Hadnt thought about that... but the camera guy is looking for folks that are going over 120...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    GM228 wrote: »
    Legally they are allowed.

    On a motorway?

    If it's on a section off of the hard shoulder I'd get that but if that's actually in law that a civilian speed camera can park in a completely moronic and dangerous place then I actually have no words....

    I don't doubt you GM as know your up on all that but was legislation changed for that specific reason?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,359 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui


    I thought the idea was to target dangerous sections of roads with high accident rates? Motorways are of course the safest sorts of roads with low accident rates. I remember looking at one years stats a while back and could only find a single fatality on an Irish motorway in that year.

    Anyway, if a truck has a blow out in fog and pulloff and hits or clips one of these vans, there will certainly be a motorway fatality that year and a re-assessment of placements.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭ FishOnABike


    On a motorway?

    If it's on a section off of the hard shoulder I'd get that but if that's actually in law that a civilian speed camera can park in a completely moronic and dangerous place then I actually have no words....

    I don't doubt you GM as know your up on all that but was legislation changed for that specific reason?
    As the saying goes "The law is an ass".


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,302 ✭✭✭ Heebie


    Radar works by sending radio signals then measuring the Doppler shift (phase differential in the returning wave due to reflecting off moving objects) in what bounced back to them. If the fog is dense enough to be reflecting radio waves around, they could be returning from multiple targets at once and making the readings entirely erroneous.

    Another vehicle near you on the road, or even a road sign, can cause the reading to be entirely screwball as well, and these defects have more effect in fog.

    Of course, the speed camera van guys, and even the Gardai, are probably trained that speed radar is infallible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    There's 120km limit on roads with no hard shoulders,
    Cars have lights to light up the road ahead of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭ SeanW


    There's 120km limit on roads with no hard shoulders,
    Cars have lights to light up the road ahead of them
    I'm not aware of any, 120kph limits are reserved for motorway main lines and HQDCs. And yes, cars do have headlights, but they're not as good as daylight. Even with high beams. Low/dipped beams are really just better than nothing.

    There's a reason why most road users are prohibited from using the hard shoulder on a motorway for anything other than an emergency or breakdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    There's 120km limit on roads with no hard shoulders,
    Cars have lights to light up the road ahead of them

    You're mixing that up with there are dual carriageway with the 120km/h speed limit, can't recall which one but there is.

    It's like saying motorway speed limit is 120km/h but then look at the M50 which never went back after the works.

    There is no road with 120km/h speed limit without a hard shoulder.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm pretty sure it's illegal for him to be stopped on the hard shoulder of a motorway. The Go Safe vans aren't immune to the ROTR.

    Even the guards have special laybys to park on rather than stop on the hard shoulder.

    They are often parked in the exit lane shoulder of the M3, just after the toll and in the lead up to the exit for Clonee. They are going to be the cause of an accident parked up there at some point when combined with idiots pulling into the exit lane without looking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    You're mixing that up with there are dual carriageway with the 120km/h speed limit, can't recall which one but there is.

    The road between Newry as you leave the north and enter the republic BUT HAVE NOT yet entered onto the M1 is 120kph.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭ SeanW


    But that road has hard shoulders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭ FishOnABike


    If you break down on a motorway the recommended thing to do is park the car on the hard shoulder, get out of the car and go behind the crash barrier and go back the road slightly so you are not in the target zone for flying debris if something goes into the back of your car while it's sitting on the hard shoulder.

    Deliberately parking an unlit vehicle with someone inside it on the hard shoulder of a motorway or HQDC seems totally crazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭ AVFC.Stephen


    Maybe laws go out the window with profit margins... good spot for profit = bend on the motor way on a hard shoulder.

    Just looking at the N3 at the start of rush hour reminds me of the round about for the Arc of triumph. The amount of cars that are using hard shoulders or going into the entry lanes to get a bump up in the traffic is nuts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ Jem72


    Interestingly, the old camera list has no locations listed for "Motorway" in County Meath. My understanding of the way in which the contract operates is that GoSafe are paid to provide a fixed number of hours of monitoring in the approved locations. They are definitely not paid anything at all extra for catching people.

    So perhaps the van had actually broken down or it wasn't a speed camera van at all.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Roads-Policing/Safety-Cameras/1031-active-safety-camera-locations.pdf


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