Ireland in 3 years under a left wing government.

mullinr2

What would Ireland look like in 3 to 5 years if the lefties get their way?
I reckon there would be a high unemployment rate due to many multinationals upping sticks because of higher taxes. Not only will this affect those jobs in those industries, it would have a knock on affect in the service industry.
We would also be further away from a United Ireland. A border poll showing that people in the North don't want to be part of a leftist state and would be financially better off in the UK.
By abolishing the USC and Property Taxes along with many multinationals leaving, the government has **** all money to spend.

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

Odhinn

mullinr2 wrote: »

What would Ireland look like in 3 to 5 years if the lefties get their way?
I reckon there would be a high unemployment rate due to many multinationals upping sticks because of higher taxes. Not only will this affect those jobs in those industries, it would have a knock on affect in the service industry.
We would also be further away from a United Ireland. A border poll showing that people in the North don't want to be part of a leftist state and would be financially better off in the UK.
By abolishing the USC and Property Taxes asking with many multinationals leaving, the government has **** all money to spend.

How do you see Ireland under a left government? Be realistic.

https://images.app.goo.gl/gjy4pSAQjcQYPyALA

Your Face

I don't know but I know what it looks like now.

osarusan

JohnnyFlash

Pearse Doherty has been spotted frantically researching where to buy magic money trees.

mikhail

I believe Mary-Lou can return this country what it once was: a deserted wasteland, covered in ice.

tayto lover

I haven’t seen the Sinn Fein manifesto.
Could anyone point me in the direction of it please.

seamus

"Left wing government" is a bit of a jingoist boogeyman. It implies budget-breaking welfare giveaways, seizure of private property for public use and everyone being forced to live on the same income regardless of what they do.

We don't really have any of those people in this country. Even RBB and Paul Murphy talk hard, but their hearts lie in social leftism more than economic.

Right-wing governments leave us in a place where the country has gotten a lot of financial and economic TLC, but social and humanity issues are left on life-support, sometimes even sacrificed for financial gain.

Left-wing governments give TLC to the social and the humanity issues, without pushing for aggressive economic development. Finances are sacrificed if it will improve general well-being.

After 3 years of it, we'll be in place where poverty is lower, inequality is lower, healthcare is (very slightly) improved, and people feel like they have better day-to-day supports and employment security. But there will be a creeping issue of budget overspend, economic stagnation and rising unemployment.

rossie1977

Can't be any worse than the mess FF left us in back in 2011 ie national debt rising from 50 billion to 200 billion, unemployment to over 15% and budget deficit of 19 billion in 2010 alone.

Corporations aren't going to pull out of Ireland because they are asked to pay their fair share. Look at the US, California has big tax rates yet corporations continue to headquarter there rather than Wyoming or next door in Nevada who have zero corporation tax.

suicide_circus

Your Face wrote: »

I don't know but I know what it looks like now.

nowhere near the nightmarish hellscape it is painted as?

Your Face

suicide_circus wrote: »

nowhere near the nightmarish hellscape it is painted as?

You don't work in healthcare.

suicide_circus

Your Face wrote: »

You don't work in healthcare.

fair enough, cant wait for SF to fix that

Your Face

suicide_circus wrote: »

fair enough, cant wait for SF to fix that

Never said they would.

You may be projecting a bit.

One thing about the election is the effect its had resurrecting dead accounts and a slew of new ones for the site. The owners must be delighted.

tayto lover

rossie1977 wrote: »

Can't be any worse than the mess FF left us in back in 2011 ie national debt rising from 50 billion to 200 billion, unemployment to over 15% and budget deficit of 19 billion in 2010 alone.

Corporations aren't going to pull out of Ireland because they are asked to pay their fair share. Look at the US, California has big tax rates yet corporations continue to headquarter there rather than Wyoming or next door in Nevada who have zero corporation tax.

“Can’t be any worse than the mess FF left us in back in 2011”.

That scares me. I don’t believe anyone wants to go through that again. People lost their homes and many committed suicide in that period. To even suggest that it could happen again under SF really is scary. Does this mean that SF are there to gamble?

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Pearse Doherty has been spotted frantically researching where to buy magic money trees.

Because FG bought them all up.

Gunmonkey

People need to stop being so negative. Sure we wont even be living on the land anymore; we will all climb the giant beanstalk that grows from the magic beans Mary Lou bought and live in the giants castle.

The golden goose eggs will also be paying for all the houses/healthcare/tax cuts SF promised to introduce.

James Brown

Are we thinking crash followed generational debt or crony deals at a loss to the tax payer and record breaking numbers of children homeless with Housing, Health crises? Bring back FF/FG

Boredstiff666

I have lived under a 'Left Wing' government.

At first it sounds great. Everything is going to get fixed. Everything is going to get better. Everything looks rosy. Wages just keep going up. Everybody wants a council job. Sweeping the streets pays more than any tradesman. Joining a Union is the first thing you do before you get a job.

It is smiles all around and everybody is happy.

Then one day someone looks at the bank balance. They get told to hide it. But one day there is no where left to hide them.

So there is no money. So everyone goes on strike. So nothing ever gets done. The streets are full of rubbish. Everything is broke and doesn't work. The power keeps going off. The TV is off because they are on strike. The phones arent working. There is no water. etc etc etc.

I do not want to live under a socialist Government again. They are a pure disaster.

splinter65

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are we thinking crash followed generational debt or crony deals at a loss to the tax payer and record breaking numbers of children homeless with Housing, Health crises? Bring back FF/FG

It’s going to be great Matt. For you, it’s always been just over the next hill, just around the next corner... we’ll it’s here now, all your wishes are about to come true...enjoy!!

James Brown

splinter65 wrote: »

It’s going to be great Matt. For you, it’s always been just over the next hill, just around the next corner... we’ll it’s here now, all your wishes are about to come true...enjoy!!

Hopefully. Thanks.
We all want the next government to do well surely?

vriesmays

Those €3000 / month apartments in the Docklands will be housing Jacinta and Anto.

James Brown

vriesmays wrote: »

Those €3000 / month apartments in the Docklands will be housing Jacinta and Anto.

Like the ones leased out for 25 years in Dun Laoghaire?

Boggles

Jaysus another SF bashing thread.

There must not be a lemon left in the country!

TheValeyard

So, is this going to be the current affairs for the next couple years now?

_Brian

I think people need a serious reality check if they think Ireland is a bad country.

At the formation of the state we were a broken desperate poor country ravaged by war and genocide after loosing millions of people through the actions of our oppressors over hundreds of years. As a whole the Irish people had nothing, we’re poorly educated and the state had a shockingly poor outlook and much of not all of our culture had been extinguished.

Today ireland has a fantastic economy, life expectancy is massive and moving forward. We have educational opportunities and levels that are amazing.
We attract many multinational companies who provide excellent employment opportunities with very strong wages.
It’s a safe country, among the safest in the west, and our troops are prized recognised peace keepers.

Ireland under right governments has quickly become a brilliant country, a friend to many round the world and well respected.

People should get out and travel to some actual third world countries and see what actual poverty and inequality look like.

The Social inequality I hear people talk of is the gap between working families and those who expect not to work yet be provided with the same standards of living.

Three years of the left won’t destroy the country, but it will set us on a downward spiral of taxation increases and further encouragement for people not to work and better themselves. However, workers will quickly see the burden placed on them and correct the mistake at the polls, they will see the slowing investment from multinationals and want that reversed.

If you want to get a glimpse of how bad policy affects the real world look at housing, the left moaned and insisted landlords we’re reigned in and taxed heavily, they left the market in droves and now the rental stock is a mere fraction of what It was, multiply this across most industry and you see how the left increasing taxation on “the wealthy” will affect the economy.

The left are an important balance in the governance of the country, but as opposition, never ever as government.

There are issues, health being the core problem. But, it will seem like nothing compared to the problems consecutive left governments would create. Health of course would be manageable if bloody degenerates would stop drinking, smoking and taking drugs to excess. Alcohol and smoking related issues are absolutely crippling the health system, again a choice selfish people make and to hell with the consequences for the state.

Goldengirl

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I have lived under a 'Left Wing' government.

At first it sounds great. Everything is going to get fixed. Everything is going to get better. Everything looks rosy. Wages just keep going up. Everybody wants a council job. Sweeping the streets pays more than any tradesman. Joining a Union is the first thing you do before you get a job.

It is smiles all around and everybody is happy.

Then one day someone looks at the bank balance. They get told to hide it. But one day there is no where left to hide them.

So there is no money. So everyone goes on strike. So nothing ever gets done. The streets are full of rubbish. Everything is broke and doesn't work. The power keeps going off. The TV is off because they are on strike. The phones arent working. There is no water. etc etc etc.

I do not want to live under a socialist Government again. They are a pure disaster.

A lot of these disaster scenarios have / do happen under present and past governments . But I see your point. Having lived through that ( where exactly..? ) it would be scary to imagine that would happen.

However I don't think anything so extreme would happen anytime soon here. More than likely will be a government coalition with one of the centre parties who will moderate .
Or we will be back to the same two in government and that is not a pleasant picture for a lot of people here either .

Is normalisation of increased numbers of homelessness, skyrocketing rents and disregard for pleas to urgently sort these and the healthcare crisis not frightening enough?

Morgans

tayto lover wrote: »

“Can’t be any worse than the mess FF left us in back in 2011”.

That scares me. I don’t believe anyone wants to go through that again. People lost their homes and many committed suicide in that period. To even suggest that it could happen again under SF really is scary. Does this mean that SF are there to gamble?

Nah, it means that when push comes to show the right wing government can find 60bn-100bn for bail outs, refuse to burn junior bond holders, refuse to collect 13bn of taxes adjudged owed to them, sell off distressed assets to vulture funds
helping to recreate a huge housing problem and still take the moral high ground when comes to fiscal responsibility. In the face of that, spending a fraction of that on housing, health and those services that benefit the population in general would seem to redresses the decades long imbalance of the business classes/political party donors favouritism.

Boredstiff666

Goldengirl wrote: »

A lot of these disaster scenarios have / do happen under present and past governments . But I see your point. Having lived through that ( where exactly..? ) it would be scary to imagine that would happen.

However I don't think anything so extreme would happen anytime soon here. More than likely will be a government coalition with one of the centre parties who will moderate .
Or we will be back to the same two in government and that is not a pleasant picture for a lot of people here either .

Is normalisation of increased numbers of homelessness, skyrocketing rents and disregard for pleas to urgently sort these and the healthcare crisis not frightening enough?

That was the UK from about 1975 to 1979. There was actually a lot more worse stuff but it doesnt apply to Ireland.

Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world since I have been on the planet.

It's easy to spend someone elses money. Very easy indeed.

Paying it back and even just breaking even is a lot harder to do.

Morgans

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

That was the UK from about 1975 to 1979. There was actually a lot more worse stuff but it doesnt apply to Ireland.

Socialism has never worked anywhere in the world since I have been on the planet.

It's easy to spend someone elses money. Very easy indeed.

Paying it back and even just breaking even is a lot harder to do.

Has a socialist government anywhere spent 60-100bn upwards on bailing out banks? When its for a cause with political will, the money can be found and debt increased. The last thing the business classes want is for "socialism" to succeed anywhere.

Boredstiff666

Morgans wrote: »

Has a socialist government anywhere spent 60-100bn upwards on bailing out banks? When its for a cause with political will, the money can be found and debt increased. The last thing the business classes want is for "socialism" to succeed anywhere.

I see your point and you are correct that was wrong on all accounts.

But that has got nothing to do with socialism.......It is actually a great idea and in a perfect world it may even work.

Trouble is the world is far from perfect and even someone as big as the USSR with all the power they had couldnt get it right. So it just collapsed.

The economics of socialism just do not stand up. You simply cannot spend what you cant earn or ever payback.

piplip87

Dole been upped to 250 a week, no evictions for not paying your mortgage and those who cannot be bothered to work gets a nice 65k SF house.

Hospital consultants, doctor's, surgeons leaving the country due to higher taxes will fix the pension crisis sure it will certainly cut the Aul life expectancy.

High inflation due to increased employer PRSI, the living wage and upping taxes on employers will make us appreciate the little things more.

Landlords selling up due to rent freezes, higher taxes and developers leaving the country en masse due to SF policy of building without them well on the other hand sales of tents will be up....

But don't you know this won't be Marylou's fault. It will all be down to FFG and the biased media....

Don't worry though Dessie Elis will be minister of defence and will be personally responsible for recruitment to keep the population in check.

Pauline Mc Caluey (well she's going by Tully again) will be minister for Justice and will threaten the guards with the same faith her husband gave Gerry McCabe if they investigate any diesel laundering or ATM heists.

Then not to worry Marylou will still be giving speeches to "friends of SF" in New York. As you can imagine this group is anything but socialist.

Don't worry though we will have left the EU at that stage so there will be no ECB to bail us out....

Morgans

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I see your point and you are correct that was wrong on all accounts.

But that has got nothing to do with socialism.......It is actually a great idea and in a perfect world it may even work.

Trouble is the world is far from perfect and even someone as big as the USSR with all the power they had couldnt get it right. So it just collapsed.

The economics of socialism just do not stand up. You simply cannot spend what you cant earn or ever payback. There is always someone wanting to kick your door in and put the gun to your head because you have spent their money.

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Fr_Dougal

dwmcdos

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Funnily enough, FG and Labour were in power for that one.

StupidLikeAFox

Slab Murphy to be appointed as minister for cross border trade maybe?

piplip87

Morgans wrote: »

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Scandinavia is not socialist. Their economies are propped up by the petrochemical industries which are capitalist. They are anything but socialist

Boredstiff666

Morgans wrote: »

SF dont want to create USSR style socialism. Its a cliche to bashing anyone not falling in line. How are the Scandanavian countries faring in this imperfect world? They seem to cope and most leftists would be happy to see such models in health/education attitude to inequality, in place here.

There is plenty of socialism for the richer in society.

Yeah well I have personal experience of it. You have but just a pipe dream and no examples or proof of where or when your idealism has ever worked. I can give you plenty of examples where it has failed and why when you adopt those socialist lefty policies, people who remember it the first time around will never vote for you again. Ask Jeremy Corbin.

Plumbthedepths

DubInMeath wrote: »

One thing about the election is the effect its had resurrecting dead accounts and a slew of new ones for the site. The owners must be delighted.

What a great post and I suspect very true.

Kivaro

tayto lover wrote: »

I haven’t seen the Sinn Fein manifesto.
Could anyone point me in the direction of it please.

I started a thread specifically on the Manifesto topic a couple of days ago, but that discussion was shut down by a mod.

Morgans

piplip87 wrote: »

Scandinavia is not socialist. Their economies are propped up by the petrochemical industries which are capitalist. They are anything but socialist

Exactly. No one except those eager to promote bogeymen from 50 years ago are saying Sinn Fein are looking for a stereotypical socialist economy.

However, leftists in Ireland would love to have the social protections of Scandanavian systems.

Plumbthedepths

Kivaro wrote: »

I started a thread specifically on the Manifesto topic a couple of days ago, but that discussion was shut down by a mod.

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

splinter65

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Hopefully. Thanks.
We all want the next government to do well surely?

Of course! They’re getting a really good start too with employment at 100% and the house building looking good for this year at last....it’s just a question then of them sorting out the health service for a start, they’ve had a long time to formulate a plan for that, I’m sure it’s only a question of putting it into practice.
Ideally SF won’t need FF and we could have the complete change that SF say the people voted for.
Time for FG/FF to have their turn on the opposition benches away from having to make any decisions.

Morgans

I can only imagine how up in arms the intelligencia would be if SF advocated taking 70% control of AIB, 25% of BOI, PTSB. It would be viewed as the end of world as we know it. How disgusted would the press be. Yet, that's where we are and the sky thankfully hasnt fallen in. Media didnt seem to show too many objectors.

splinter65

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

Kivaro

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Do you seriously believe any parties manifesto is meant to be taken seriously, even FG's Regina Doherty stated no one reads manifestos.

When it involves the following, it should:

1. Return the retirement age to 65. Cost - €368 million per year.
2. End third level fees - €243 million.
3. Abolish the Property Tax, saving families an average of €244 a year. Cost - €485 million per annum.
4. Reduce the cost of childcare by €500 per child per month. Cost - €500 million per annum.
5. Abolish the USC on the first €30,000 earned, saving workers up to €700 per annum. Cost - €1.2bn per annum.
6. Increase Garda numbers to 16,000. Cost - €142 million.
7. End the recruitment ban, hiring 2,500 more nurses and midwives and 1,000 more doctors and consultants. Cost - €358million per annum.
8. Open 1,500 more beds. Cost - €480 million in annual current expenditure and €1bn for capital.
9. Deliver 12 million additional home help hours over the term of the government to clear the waiting list. Cost - €59 million per annum for additional hours.
10. Recruit 2,000 additional civilian staff freeing up Gardaí from desk duties. Cost - €80 million.
11. Build 100,000 homes over 5 years. This will include council housing and affordable homes for renters and first time buyers. Cost - €6.5 billion.

That's just a snippet. The rest can be found here.

Plumbthedepths

splinter65 wrote: »

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

If you believe 24% of the electorate voted based on a manifesto I can write you off as being deluded.

Morgans

splinter65 wrote: »

People have voted for SF based on their extensively publicized manifesto and all its promises. Why on earth else do you imagine they voted for them when they never voted for them before?

Can you show us the research on this?

People havent forgotten FF's Recklessness, FG's high-handedness or Labour's lack of spine.

Plumbthedepths

Kivaro wrote: »

When it involves the following, it should:

1. Return the retirement age to 65. Cost - €368 million per year.
2. End third level fees - €243 million.
3. Abolish the Property Tax, saving families an average of €244 a year. Cost - €485 million per annum.
4. Reduce the cost of childcare by €500 per child per month. Cost - €500 million per annum.
5. Abolish the USC on the first €30,000 earned, saving workers up to €700 per annum. Cost - €1.2bn per annum.
6. Increase Garda numbers to 16,000. Cost - €142 million.
7. End the recruitment ban, hiring 2,500 more nurses and midwives and 1,000 more doctors and consultants. Cost - €358million per annum.
8. Open 1,500 more beds. Cost - €480 million in annual current expenditure and €1bn for capital.
9. Deliver 12 million additional home help hours over the term of the government to clear the waiting list. Cost - €59 million per annum for additional hours.
10. Recruit 2,000 additional civilian staff freeing up Gardaí from desk duties. Cost - €80 million.
11. Build 100,000 homes over 5 years. This will include council housing and affordable homes for renters and first time buyers. Cost - €6.5 billion.

That's just a snippet. The rest can be found here.

TLDR , I don't take heed of any party's manifesto as since coalition is a feature of Irish politics and has been for decades a manifesto is the first thing to get thrown out during the talks. Remember Labours of 2011?

threeball

I find it amazing that the so called party for irish unification is one of the biggest impediments to it actually happening. Brexit drove us 50% of the way towards unification and SF have in the space of 4 days driven it half way back to where we were. It's almost like they don't want it to happen as they won't have a reason to exist

vriesmays

Will the Defence Forces wages go up now.