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Kia E-Soul 64 Kwh driven

  • 06-02-2020 12:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    First of all, my review of the Kia E-Soul 64 Kwh is based on my thoughts and opinions, please test drive the car yourself before you make judgement. I'm not intending People to buy the car or not based on this review.

    I drove the E-Soul on the 15th of January and I was quite impressed, I wrote most of this on the 15th while it was fresh in my head.

    The E-Soul is Nice to drive and comfortable, decent interior and has decent power though for 200 odd Hp I was expecting better acceleration, that was a little disappointing but it's a 1600 Kg car that's before you add passengers. Wheel spin is common but didn't seem to be as much an issue as it was in the Kona, different tyres perhaps ? Tuned differently ? I feel it's de-tuned compared to the Kona, I don't know, it was about 5 degrees C setting off and got to about 8 Deg C by the time I got to Blanchardstown.

    Size wise it's big enough for me, boot is pretty small but tall, fitting 3 Adults might be a tight squeeze.

    Under the bonnet is a large waste of space, they could package it together better and fit a frunk, this is really sad to see. They need to move to a dedicated EV platform, the way VW are doing it with the ID.3 at least. Luckily Hyundai and Kia are doing so from 2021 along with moving to 800 Volt battery. Leg room was plentiful more so than the Kona in fact it's a good bit larger than the Kona.

    Suspension was fine, soaks up bad Irish back roads well, the steering is as you would expect on such a car stiff enough but artificial feeling but again, for such a car it's fine. Weight was notable and that's not necessarily a bad thing but you won't be pushing it hard on back roads with lots of bends.

    One very impressive feature is the lane keep assist, it's brilliant, the thing could drive on it's own with very little human intervention if it were allowed to do so, it's bloody good I was highly impressed and made the motorway trip from Carlow to Blanchardstown and back much more comfortable, the adaptive cruise is very convenient. I found the lane keep assist much better than that in the Kona. I've heard that the LKA is more advanced in the E-soul than in the Niro/Kona and it definitely feels so.

    Road noise was surprisingly low, much less than the Kona, the road noise in the Kona was just terrible but the E-Soul was pretty quite. The salesman in Dooley Motors in Carlow said that he's had some Customers that ordered the E-Soul because of the noisy Kona.

    Now we come to range, unsurprisingly due to the shape of the Kona it's not very efficient on the motorway and my combined trip was 20 Kwh/100 kms I saw 21 Kw/100 Km on the motorway, conditions were not bad, it was dry and sunny and 5 - 8 Deg C, more around 8 deg C than 5, it was about 5 setting off from Carlow around 09:40. it was breezy. This would indicate around 320 kms range but you'd want to be at the charge point by probably 280 Kms it's still not bad all things considered, if I were to compare that to my 24 Kwh Leaf that would have been around 80 Kms at 120 Km/hr and the lead at 120 would have been more like 112 Km/hr.

    I had driven the E-Soul from the M9 Carlow/Castledermot Junction at 120 Km/hr to the M7 3 lanes and was then around 110 Km/hr to the N7 and from there 105 -110 Km/hr now what that is in GPS I have no idea but it is still impressive. My BMW i3 94 ah ( 33 Kwh with 29 usable )would need to be at a charger by about 120-130 Kms at 120 km/hr, the Kona has 64 "usable" Kwh available.

    I drove a total of 196.6 Kms and had 39% left starting with 98%. The GOM said I had 144 Kms left. If driving non motorway and on national routes at 80-100 Km/hr I would expect 350 Kms and in warmer weather probably close to 400 Kms but on the motorway this time of year based on 21 Kwh/100 kms I would expect to be at a charger by 280 Kms at 120 Km/hr clock speed. That's certainly not bad, that's a whole lot more than my 33 Kwh i3.

    I didn't use a public charger, sadly they are mostly 50 Kw, the 150 Kw ionity chargers can charge the 64 Kwh E-soul at 75 Kw max around 30% ( according to Bjorn's video ) but sadly tapers off from 55%. By 56% it's charging at only 58 kw and at 74% it's charges at only 34 Kw, when you think about it however, a Gen 1 Leaf would struggle to charge beyond 35 Kw from 50%.

    According to Bjorn's video 10 - 70% takes 36.5 mins on 100 Kw charger compared to 54 mins on a 50 Kw charger. So one would expect 44 mins from 10-60 % on an ESB DC charger before over stay penalties apply at 45 mins.

    60% should have about 38 Kwh available and take you a further 190 Kms to empty so probably 160 Kms to 30% at 20 Kwh/100 kms that would give a potential 460 Kms range with one DC charge. National routes at 80-100 Km/hr and warmer weather could see 350+ kms range. Charging to 70% on a 100 Kw charger takes around 36 mins.

    It's a shame Kia/Hyundai stuck with CCS 1 standard because 100 Kw would have made a real difference.

    One amazing thing I spotted was a max of 144 kw regen, that was astonishing and shows what is capable but the limitation is the current capability of the CCS 1 standard.

    Sadly they don't yet have 3 phase AC charging and make do with only 7 Kw, the Kona has recently been updated with a 3 phase 11 Kw charger and that will make a big difference, I expect the E-Soul will get this 3 phase charging later in 2020.

    For an average car that would cost so much less to run than a petrol/Diesel or plug in I highly recommend the 64 Kwh E-Soul, I was certainly impressed.

    However, not so impressive is the 39,000 Euro price tag, depreciation in the first 3 years will be a killer, I would like to know what the PCP deals are out there if anyone knows please tell me but at that cost I think you'd be wanting to keep the car more than 5 years especially considering depreciation will most likely be shocking but that's just "my estimate" however I feel anyone looking to buy a Kona or E-soul should be prepared to keep it a long time or loose a lot of money.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,515 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    Great to have you back Mad Lad!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    First of all, my review of the Kia E-Soul 64 Kwh is based on my thoughts and opinions, please test drive the car yourself before you make judgement. I'm not intending People to buy the car or not based on this review.

    I drove the E-Soul on the 15th of January and I was quite impressed, I wrote most of this on the 15th while it was fresh in my head.

    The E-Soul is Nice to drive and comfortable, decent interior and has decent power though for 200 odd Hp I was expecting better acceleration, that was a little disappointing but it's a 1600 Kg car that's before you add passengers. Wheel spin is common but didn't seem to be as much an issue as it was in the Kona, different tyres perhaps ? Tuned differently ? I feel it's de-tuned compared to the Kona, I don't know, it was about 5 degrees C setting off and got to about 8 Deg C by the time I got to Blanchardstown.

    Size wise it's big enough for me, boot is pretty small but tall, fitting 3 Adults might be a tight squeeze.

    Under the bonnet is a large waste of space, they could package it together better and fit a frunk, this is really sad to see. They need to move to a dedicated EV platform, the way VW are doing it with the ID.3 at least. Luckily Hyundai and Kia are doing so from 2021 along with moving to 800 Volt battery. Leg room was plentiful more so than the Kona in fact it's a good bit larger than the Kona.

    Suspension was fine, soaks up bad Irish back roads well, the steering is as you would expect on such a car stiff enough but artificial feeling but again, for such a car it's fine. Weight was notable and that's not necessarily a bad thing but you won't be pushing it hard on back roads with lots of bends.

    One very impressive feature is the lane keep assist, it's brilliant, the thing could drive on it's own with very little human intervention if it were allowed to do so, it's bloody good I was highly impressed and made the motorway trip from Carlow to Blanchardstown and back much more comfortable, the adaptive cruise is very convenient. I found the lane keep assist much better than that in the Kona. I've heard that the LKA is more advanced in the E-soul than in the Niro/Kona and it definitely feels so.

    Road noise was surprisingly low, much less than the Kona, the road noise in the Kona was just terrible but the E-Soul was pretty quite. The salesman in Dooley Motors in Carlow said that he's had some Customers that ordered the E-Soul because of the noisy Kona.

    Now we come to range, unsurprisingly due to the shape of the Kona it's not very efficient on the motorway and my combined trip was 20 Kwh/100 kms I saw 21 Kw/100 Km on the motorway, conditions were not bad, it was dry and sunny and 5 - 8 Deg C, more around 8 deg C than 5, it was about 5 setting off from Carlow around 09:40. it was breezy. This would indicate around 320 kms range but you'd want to be at the charge point by probably 280 Kms it's still not bad all things considered, if I were to compare that to my 24 Kwh Leaf that would have been around 80 Kms at 120 Km/hr and the lead at 120 would have been more like 112 Km/hr.

    I had driven the E-Soul from the M9 Carlow/Castledermot Junction at 120 Km/hr to the M7 3 lanes and was then around 110 Km/hr to the N7 and from there 105 -110 Km/hr now what that is in GPS I have no idea but it is still impressive. My BMW i3 94 ah ( 33 Kwh with 29 usable )would need to be at a charger by about 120-130 Kms at 120 km/hr, the Kona has 64 "usable" Kwh available.

    I drove a total of 196.6 Kms and had 39% left starting with 98%. The GOM said I had 144 Kms left. If driving non motorway and on national routes at 80-100 Km/hr I would expect 350 Kms and in warmer weather probably close to 400 Kms but on the motorway this time of year based on 21 Kwh/100 kms I would expect to be at a charger by 280 Kms at 120 Km/hr clock speed. That's certainly not bad, that's a whole lot more than my 33 Kwh i3.

    I didn't use a public charger, sadly they are mostly 50 Kw, the 150 Kw ionity chargers can charge the 64 Kwh E-soul at 75 Kw max around 30% ( according to Bjorn's video ) but sadly tapers off from 55%. By 56% it's charging at only 58 kw and at 74% it's charges at only 34 Kw, when you think about it however, a Gen 1 Leaf would struggle to charge beyond 35 Kw from 50%.

    According to Bjorn's video 10 - 70% takes 36.5 mins on 100 Kw charger compared to 54 mins on a 50 Kw charger. So one would expect 44 mins from 10-60 % on an ESB DC charger before over stay penalties apply at 45 mins.

    60% should have about 38 Kwh available and take you a further 190 Kms to empty so probably 160 Kms to 30% at 20 Kwh/100 kms that would give a potential 460 Kms range with one DC charge. National routes at 80-100 Km/hr and warmer weather could see 350+ kms range. Charging to 70% on a 100 Kw charger takes around 36 mins.

    It's a shame Kia/Hyundai stuck with CCS 1 standard because 100 Kw would have made a real difference.

    One amazing thing I spotted was a max of 144 kw regen, that was astonishing and shows what is capable but the limitation is the current capability of the CCS 1 standard.

    Sadly they don't yet have 3 phase AC charging and make do with only 7 Kw, the Kona has recently been updated with a 3 phase 11 Kw charger and that will make a big difference, I expect the E-Soul will get this 3 phase charging later in 2020.

    For an average car that would cost so much less to run than a petrol/Diesel or plug in I highly recommend the 64 Kwh E-Soul, I was certainly impressed.

    However, not so impressive is the 39,000 Euro price tag, depreciation in the first 3 years will be a killer, I would like to know what the PCP deals are out there if anyone knows please tell me but at that cost I think you'd be wanting to keep the car more than 5 years especially considering depreciation will most likely be shocking but that's just "my estimate" however I feel anyone looking to buy a Kona or E-soul should be prepared to keep it a long time or loose a lot of money.

    €11700max deposit/trade-in (or 30% of the selling price), if your trade in is more expensive you get a cheque for the difference, 3.9%APR and €409 per month over 3 years and €15k balloon payment...


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,858 ✭✭✭✭ Alun


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    One very impressive feature is the lane keep assist, it's brilliant, the thing could drive on it's own with very little human intervention if it were allowed to do so, it's bloody good I was highly impressed and made the motorway trip from Carlow to Blanchardstown and back much more comfortable, the adaptive cruise is very convenient. I found the lane keep assist much better than that in the Kona. I've heard that the LKA is more advanced in the E-soul than in the Niro/Kona and it definitely feels so.
    LKA or LFA? Two different things, on my 2020 Niro PHEV at least.

    LKA is on by default all the time and only corrects if you drift over the line accidentally but doesn't actively steer as such.

    LFA (Lane Following Assist) is on only when you engage the SCC (Smart Cruise Control) and will as you say almost steer itself, with the proviso that it beeps if you remove your hands from the steering wheel for too long.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Alun wrote: »
    LKA or LFA? Two different things, on my 2020 Niro PHEV at least.

    LKA is on by default all the time and only corrects if you drift over the line accidentally but doesn't actively steer as such.

    LFA (Lane Following Assist) is on only when you engage the SCC (Smart Cruise Control) and will as you say almost steer itself, with the proviso that it beeps if you remove your hands from the steering wheel for too long.

    Sounds like the LFA then, very impressive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    peposhi wrote: »
    €11700max deposit/trade-in (or 30% of the selling price), if your trade in is more expensive you get a cheque for the difference, 3.9%APR and €409 per month over 3 years and €15k balloon payment...

    Congrats on the esoul, love the colour!

    How many kms are those figures for ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,902 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    Peposhi beat me with the numbers.

    I'm expecting the car to be worth close to 30k in 3 years based on the demand that'll be there for EV's.
    Look at the ioniq price for example. It's barely come down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    ewj1978 wrote: »
    Peposhi beat me with the numbers.

    I'm expecting the car to be worth close to 30k in 3 years based on the demand that'll be there for EV's.
    Look at the ioniq price for example. It's barely come down.

    I seriously can't see a 3 year old Kia e-soul being worth 30K in 3 years. Of course, that's just my opinion.

    The Ioniq held it's value only because production was severely limited but there are better cars out there now.

    Can't see anyone paying 30K for a Kia E-Soul when a 3 year old ID.3 could be got probably as cheap or even cheaper in 3 years, mileage dependent and all that.

    There isn't exactly big demand for electrics today, the cost is too high for decent range and it's only really the E-Soul and Kona that have decent range but too expensive, the Petrol Kona is a lot cheaper for example, your average driver just isn't going to pay that much new/2nd hand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Congrats on the esoul, love the colour!

    How many kms are those figures for ?

    Thank you, Mad_Lad. You were a big part of me changing my mind :) It is a lovely colour, totally agree.

    I think it was for 15k km per year. I actually don’t care as I am (MOH really) planning to keep it for good (I don’t mind, it’s a cracking vehicle)


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 2tiredkjl


    One helpful suggestion. I have my SoulEV for 7 months and 30k now

    The Soul comes with tyre pressure set at 36psi, IIRC. At around 15k I measured the tyre wear and saw it was uneven/raised between the centre and the sides of the tyres - a classic sign of under inflation. So I upped the pressure to 40psi and now when I look at the tyres that uneven wear between centre and sides is no longer there.

    Good luck with the new car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    peposhi wrote: »
    Thank you, Mad_Lad. You were a big part of me changing my mind :) It is a lovely colour, totally agree.

    I think it was for 15k km per year. I actually don’t care as I am (MOH really) planning to keep it for good (I don’t mind, it’s a cracking vehicle)

    Welcome, yeah I think it was a far better purchase. ;) best of luck with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    2tiredkjl wrote: »
    One helpful suggestion. I have my SoulEV for 7 months and 30k now

    The Soul comes with tyre pressure set at 36psi, IIRC. At around 15k I measured the tyre wear and saw it was uneven/raised between the centre and the sides of the tyres - a classic sign of under inflation. So I upped the pressure to 40psi and now when I look at the tyres that uneven wear between centre and sides is no longer there.

    Good luck with the new car.

    When I got the car the pressure was 41psi all around. Yesterday I checked and it was 39psi when started, perhaps cold weather affected it?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,892 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    A 3 year old eSoul will be worth nowhere near 30k when you can get a similar range brand new ID.3 for thousands less than that (in 2023). Unless the €10k subsidy is completely scrapped between now and then. Then it might still be worth well over 20k

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    unkel wrote: »
    ...Unless the €10k subsidy is completely scrapped between now and then. Then it might still be worth well over 20k...

    Quite possible, as the gov will retreat as soon as possible as revenues are being lost here. Not so much now with 2% penetration, but if EV sales hit 50% or so... hmm, that’s a load of money...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    Nice review, cheers.

    The cost is relative so if your car spend is comfortably about 35k upwards normally then you don't really need to justify the price tag.

    It's an expensive car.

    I commute 100km a day at 120 a month on diesel. Even at 1500 a year moving from a 20k car to 40k is more than 12 years before I'm saving any money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭ peposhi


    Lantus wrote: »
    Nice review, cheers.

    The cost is relative so if your car spend is comfortably about 35k upwards normally then you don't really need to justify the price tag.

    It's an expensive car.

    I commute 100km a day at 120 a month on diesel. Even at 1500 a year moving from a 20k car to 40k is more than 12 years before I'm saving any money.

    You must have a very efficient diesel car. Or you could buy a €12k Sandero and save additional €8k :)

    I could buy my project Micra back for €500 and save loads


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,933 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Lantus wrote: »
    Nice review, cheers.

    The cost is relative so if your car spend is comfortably about 35k upwards normally then you don't really need to justify the price tag.

    It's an expensive car.

    I commute 100km a day at 120 a month on diesel. Even at 1500 a year moving from a 20k car to 40k is more than 12 years before I'm saving any money.
    That's interesting as I commute 120km per day *5 and approx 300km each weekend.
    My diesel bill in a 2009 Skoda Superb was nigh on 400 quid. In the e60 3 litre diesel beforehand it was 500+


    Excluding tax and insurance and maintenance.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,892 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Clean Micra!

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's interesting as I commute 120km per day *5 and approx 300km each weekend.
    My diesel bill in a 2009 Skoda Superb was nigh on 400 quid. In the e60 3 litre diesel beforehand it was 500+


    Excluding tax and insurance and maintenance.

    Apologies, I meant 160. 40 a week. 1.6 Octavia.

    Might need a little extra for weekend trips but not too often. Say 2k a year. So your 400 for almost double mileage isn't too far off relative to distance, engines and driving style.

    I'm lucky ish (as 100km commutes go..) that the road is 80 to 120 kmh which helps maintain good fuel efficiency.


  • Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lantus wrote: »
    .........

    I commute 100km a day at 120 a month on diesel.........
    peposhi wrote: »
    You must have a very efficient diesel car. .........

    2000kms, at €1.4/litre that's 86 litres, 4.3l/100kms ........... not overly mad if the average speed is 100kph ish and there's little stop start driving.

    After the edit, €160 would be 5.7l/100kms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Lantus wrote: »
    Nice review, cheers.

    The cost is relative so if your car spend is comfortably about 35k upwards normally then you don't really need to justify the price tag.

    It's an expensive car.

    I commute 100km a day at 120 a month on diesel. Even at 1500 a year moving from a 20k car to 40k is more than 12 years before I'm saving any money.

    Sure I got no issue with someone spending money on a car if that's what they want however this is a price way above what a Kia of this class would normally cost so the risk of severe depreciation is very high but it's no issue to peposhi who intends to keep the car a very long time but I feel it needs to be highlighted.

    It could go either way, if the battery holds up well after the 3 years and has still got a decent bit of range it might hold it's value well.

    There's a few things though that might go against it, Hyundai have said they are moving to 800V tech from 2021 which will have a huge impact to fast charging. + Hyundai have already upgraded the Kona to 3 phase 11 Kw AC which the E-soul is sure to get probably in the Summer.

    Also from 2021 Hyundai move to a dedicated EV platform. But the Kona and E-soul will probably stay the same for a couple of years. Maybe they can get the cost down.

    800 volt charging should "in my opinion" should reduce the cold battery charging issues why do I think this ? because a cold battery suffers from increased internal resistance meaning it's much harder for electrons to flow from Cathode to Anode greatly reducing the current that can be pulled from the charger, however, if you have 800 volt charging then this will allow much more watts to be pulled with much less current and I'll give an example below.

    Current battery tech is around 400 volts meaning @ 120 amps = 48 Kw

    800 volts @ 60 amps = 48 Kw

    So, if internal resistance is limiting current then higher voltage should or reduce this cold charging problem.

    Of course all this needs to be proved.

    The only issue is where you run into high current again for instance, if you can charge at 200 kw @ 800 volts you'd be needing 250 amps of current and a cold batter could very well suffer the same faith as 400 volts you could just charge faster with 800 volts regardless. It will be interesting to see and see if Hyundai can indeed reach 350 Kw charging speed, that would be absolutely amazing.

    At least Hyundai are moving at far greater pace then the European car makers.

    It's a shame the Japanese lost the plot altogether, just think of what we might have from Toyota today if Chevron Texaco patents didn't forbid any car maker using the NiMh battery as the main source of traction in an automobile and limiting the use of this battery to a minuscule 1 Kwh in capacity. You couldn't make the sh1t up.

    And it's actually funny to think most of the advancements in Toyota hybrids have come from the ICE tech than the hybrid part of their cars. Not much has changed since 2004.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,515 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    I'm of the opinion that the Koreans are making the best EVs in the world, alongside Tesla.

    I know people expect the Germans to catch up, but they've not shown the ability to do so yet.

    The e-Soul looks great to my eyes. The only slight fly in the ointment is the relatively poor high-speed efficiency compared to the e-Niro.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,933 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    800v is not without its own issues but I do agree it leads to faster charging potential and a fix to coldgate issues.

    Tesla charge at 250kW peak using 400v, Taycan is 270kW using 800v.
    If you had high amp and 800v you could get some seriously impressive speeds.
    Take the M3 peak of 666a and apply 800v and you get 532kW


  • Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Sure I got no issue with someone spending money on a car if that's what they want however this is a price way above what a Kia of this class would normally cost so the risk of severe depreciation is very high but it's no issue to peposhi who intends to keep the car a very long time but I feel it needs to be highlighted..........

    Indeed, the Niro and E-soul are quite expensive looking. The eGolf was the same before the recent discounting to get them out the doors.

    When ground up EVs become the norm much of the current offerings will be very poor value new, second hand is a different kettle of fish though for the next few years anyway.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,892 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If you had high amp and 800v you could get some seriously impressive speeds.
    Take the M3 peak of 666a and apply 800v and you get 532kW

    That's why the Ionity chargers are 350kW capable. Could be a bit more as from memory they can do 500A @ 900V (450kW). Don't remember the exact details, but I've linked to the specs before.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I saw 144 kw regen when I tested the esoul , this was when I pressed the brake pedal, seems only when you press the pedal it’s only then you get max regen.

    Shows what the battery can take, sadly charging current is limited by CCS 1.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,933 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    That's why the Ionity chargers are 350kW capable. Could be a bit more as from memory they can do 500A @ 900V (450kW). Don't remember the exact details, but I've linked to the specs before.
    They can do 500A or 900V but the max combined output is capped at 350kW.
    If you have a car that can take 600a and 1000v you will be capped at 350kW not 450kW (the arithmetic 900v*500a)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,892 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Yeah I think that's what it said in the spec sheet alright. Must dig it up and link to it again. The 500A max is pretty limiting to the Tesla Model 3 as it can take 666A (but only at a lowish voltage)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,797 samih


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    I saw 144 kw regen when I tested the esoul , this was when I pressed the brake pedal, seems only when you press the pedal it’s only then you get max regen.

    Shows what the battery can take, sadly charging current is limited by CCS 1.

    Good review. The battery surely can take 144 kW for a short time but as seen during charging it can't take >50 kW power for that long. Wonder how long the regen stays at high level when you for example drive down a tall mountain?

    Tesla does need to very carefully precondition the battery for the charging speeds over 120-140 kW and the battery temperature needs to be around 55 deg C.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,401 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    samih wrote: »
    Good review. The battery surely can take 144 kW for a short time but as seen during charging it can't take >50 kW power for that long. Wonder how long the regen stays at high level when you for example drive down a tall mountain?

    Tesla does need to very carefully precondition the battery for the charging speeds over 120-140 kW and the battery temperature needs to be around 55 deg C.

    The real limitation is the CCS 1 standard, it's limited by the amount of amps it can pull. Best it can do on a 100 Kw charger is 75 Kw and not even for very long probably because current drops as voltage rises so total Kw drops probably more so than BMS limitation because at 70 odd % there's be no real reason to limit this nearly 70 Kwh battery to less than 70 Kw at 70%.

    This is why Hyundai claim they're moving to 800 volts so their vehicles can charge at 350 Kw if the so choose depending on battery config and apart from I think Porsche, Hyundai will be the only manufacturer to move to 800 v.

    Now if Hyundai could just get the cost down, a 64 Kwh Kona or e-soul for 28 30 K would be sweet.

    But yes, seeing 144 Kw regen was amazing I have to say and just shows the power the battery can take if the chargers could provide the current at 400 volts.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,892 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Hyundai will be the only manufacturer to move to 800 v.

    What do you base that on? All manufacturers will have to move to at least 800V.
    It's the only way to charge an EV considerably faster than can be done today. It's always easier and cheaper to up the volts than to up the amps. Surely you know that yourself from working with eBikes :D

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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