Pope Gives Palace to the Homeless

05eaftqbrs9jlh

In religious news, the pope has his name associated with one good deed now:

Clever PR for the head of an institution which can count itself as the actual root cause for most societal problems; must notably staggering and uncontrolled unsustainable population increases, fear and rejection of education due to physical and sexual abuse of the children in its care and active suppression of enlightened and progressive thought in the Western world. But hey, they lent 50 homeless people 16 rooms in one of their many disused palaces.

jam_mac_jam

Is it Pr or is it a mice generous thing to do? Does everything have to have an ulterior motive

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

marieholmfan

What have you done?

05eaftqbrs9jlh

marieholmfan wrote: »

What have you done?

It looks like, straight off the line, you're making your only play in the face of criticism; an ad hominem attack on someone merely pointed out that the gesture by the church is mealy-mouthed, in the scheme of things.

My conscience is clear. What about you and (presumably) your church?

pope is head of a rotten institution

as popes go, seem worse

this is a forced negative take on a nice thing

marieholmfan

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

It looks like, straight off the line, you're making your only play in the face of criticism; an ad hominem attack on someone merely pointed out that the gesture by the church is mealy-mouthed, in the scheme of things.

My conscience is clear. What about you and (presumably) your church?

Well what have you done . Something or nothing ?

Plumbthedepths

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is it Pr or is it a mice generous thing to do? Does everything have to have an ulterior motive

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

For evil to triumph, good men need to do nothing......

uck51js9zml2yt

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

In religious news, the pope has his name associated with one good deed now:

Clever PR for the head of an institution which can count itself as the actual root cause for most societal problems; must notably staggering and uncontrolled unsustainable population increases, fear and rejection of education due to physical and sexual abuse of the children in its care and active suppression of enlightened and progressive thought in the Western world. But hey, they lent 50 homeless people 16 rooms in one of their many disused palaces.

And you can tell us how many homeless you've housed today I suppose.

the_syco

Now that the single mothers are gone (the RCC used to throw them into The Magdalene Laundries), the pope will allow homeless people to live in it, whilst they learn about the RCC.

joeguevara

I am anti man made religion. Don’t go to mass and think it’s flawed.

But sometimes I think people just want to argue about anything. I see and hear so many talk about the homeless crisis and give out about the church not opening their doors. When they do, it’s a PR exercise.

Firstly what is a PR exercise. What do you think this PR achieve. convert millions or bring non believers back? Let’s say it was a PR exercise that the end result is making people thinking less fortunate. Is that a bad thing.

And the homeless who are warm for the night. Not freezing to death. Getting fed. Do you think they care about you thinking that it’s a PR exercise. Sanctimony won’t keep them warm and safe for the night. Being inside will.

Church on Tuesday

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is it Pr or is it a mice generous thing to do? Does everything have to have an ulterior motive

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

Giving the OP's username is a play, a cynical one at that, on the Tiny Dancer cause/charity a good while back, I would assume that he believes nearly everything to have an ulterior motive.

Is it still popular to hate on the CC these days BTW? Seems very 00s early to mid 10s to me.

And no, I'm not religious.

beejee

Do the homeless shyt in the woods?

Can you hear it?

05eaftqbrs9jlh

I had a post written to respond to all the attacks on my character, but I'm actually not the one on trial... although it appears that neither is the church by boards.ie's sanctimonious standards. Suffice to say I don't hoard my wealth and demand that people follow my doctrine. Also have no idea what you're on about with the username.

Church on Tuesday

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

I had a post written to respond to all the attacks on my character, but I'm actually not the one on trial... although it appears that neither is the church by boards.ie's sanctimonious standards. Suffice to say I don't hoard my wealth and demand that people follow my doctrine. Also have no idea what you're on about with the username.

Sure.

Just another Edgelord.

beejee

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

I had a post written to respond to all the attacks on my character, but I'm actually not the one on trial... although it appears that neither is the church by boards.ie's sanctimonious standards. Suffice to say I don't hoard my wealth and demand that people follow my doctrine. Also have no idea what you're on about with the username.

Ah contrary mon petitarnaqueur, you are on trial.

And the sentence is...excommunication

joeguevara

Also, Pope Francis has always shunned any majesty, royal surrounding or usual pomp and comfort that previousnpopes enjoyed, he shunned the papal palace immediately after being elected and lives in a modest apartment. He lives his life in austerity which no other pope has.

He constantly organises events where thousands of poor and homeless are fed. No other pope did that on a regular basis. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-poor/guess-whos-coming-to-lunch-pope-hosts-meal-for-1500-needy-people-idUSKBN1XR0GJ

Maybe it is a PR exercise. As in help people in need. As in stop trying to find issues because of what others have done. Today is a better place because someone who was sleeping outside is now safe inside.

Sometimes PR to help your fellow man or woman, no matter what your position isn’t a bad thing.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Sure.

Just another Edgelord.

Congrats on another salient, relevant, well-made point.

beejee wrote: »

Ah contrary mon petitarnaqueur, you are on trial.

And the sentence is...excommunication

Eh..?

joeguevara wrote: »

the homeless who are warm for the night. Not freezing to death. Getting fed. Do you think they care about you thinking that it’s a PR exercise. Sanctimony won’t keep them warm and safe for the night. Being inside will.

OK, but didn't it remind you just a small bit of the scene in Schindler's List where he's ripping off jewellery. This gesture is little more than spitting in the ocean.

joeguevara

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

Congrats on another salient, relevant, well-made point.


Eh..?


OK, but didn't it remind you just a small bit of the scene in Schindler's List where he's ripping off jewellery. This gesture is little more than spitting in the ocean.

So no act of kindness is worthwhile unless it will change the world. Do you believe that ripple effect doesn’t exist. That is like saying there is no point recycling as what I do won’t effect climate change.

The acts of the past were abhorrent. I’m not arguing that they can be forgotten or forgiven. But that doesn’t mean that helping less fortunate is spitting in the ocean.
I just like when someone is having a better day today than they were yesterday. I’ll take that.

4068ac1elhodqr

All we know is that he's an improvement on the previous lot, the other German one looked real shifty.

Francie refuses the empty lust for Prada slippers and 10k Rolex watches that many others took.
Ideally he'll allow the priest chaps to marry womenfolk, think he's considering it, who knows.

Church on Tuesday

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

Congrats on another salient, relevant, well-made point.


Eh..?


OK, but didn't it remind you just a small bit of the scene in Schindler's List where he's ripping off jewellery. This gesture is little more than spitting in the ocean.

Thank you.

Realt Dearg Sec

I think you missed the point of that scene in Schindler's List.

Charles Babbage

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

In religious news, the pope has his name associated with one good deed now:

Clever PR for the head of an institution which can count itself as the actual root cause for most societal problems; must notably staggering and uncontrolled unsustainable population increases, fear and rejection of education due to physical and sexual abuse of the children in its care and active suppression of enlightened and progressive thought in the Western world. But hey, they lent 50 homeless people 16 rooms in one of their many disused palaces.

Exaggerate much?

Rodin

The pope should read the parable of the rich man giving loads to the poor box and the poor woman giving all she had (two coins I believe...)

05eaftqbrs9jlh

joeguevara wrote: »

I don’t understand your Schindler list reference. Was Pope Francis in it. Interestingly, what are your thoughts on the Germans. Do you give out about any positive act they carry out for the less fortunate.after all their past is an awful lot worse than the church in recent times. Should they just close up shop? Just for clarity I obviously don’t think so.

Your edited version is less coherent so I replied to the other stuff below... I'm not here to decide whether Germany or The Vatican has perpetuated worse atrocities. I only drew the comparison because I look at the wealth which could try and mitigate some of the current devastation.

joeguevara wrote: »

So no act of kindness is worthwhile unless it will change the world. Do you believe that ripple effect doesn’t exist. That is like saying there is no point recycling as what I do won’t effect climate change.

The acts of the past were abhorrent. I’m not arguing that they can be forgotten or forgiven. But that doesn’t mean that helping less fortunate is spitting in the ocean.
I just like when someone is having a better day today than they were yesterday. I’ll take that.

I'm not talking about you or me. I'm talking about the €30bn untaxed monies that are in the possession of the Catholic Church. This article was exceptional - I haven't seen many like it. As somebody said above, maybe PR isn't the intention and this gesture will snowball. But right now it's scarcely a hailstone.

(I didn't want to invoke wrath by using the word snowflake there, as I know many people get completely irrational when they see it).

Also to respond to whoever said it's not currently fashionable to dislike or question the church above, that any people at all in the world are actually walking around the place with that mindset is immensely troubling and needs to be addressed with some sort of public safety initiative. Like some sort of post-cult trauma reprogramming.

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

For evil to triumph, good men need to do nothing......

How does that apply to clerical abuse where it was the clergy who were perceived by society to be good men doing the Lords work?

The phrase is far too simplistic and can easily be applied either way depending upon the circumstances. The earliest attribution of the phrase goes back to a preacher who was calling for a prohibition on alcohol -

The maxim appeared in a quotation from a speech by the Reverend Charles F. Aked who was calling for restrictions on the use of alcohol:

It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

It looks like, straight off the line, you're making your only play in the face of criticism; an ad hominem attack on someone merely pointed out that the gesture by the church is mealy-mouthed, in the scheme of things.

Ahh come on now, by that standard, surely your own criticism is nothing more than an ad hom attack on Pope Frank, never mind all the rest of the stuff about the wider Church. I mean, if you’re talking about the grand scheme of things, the number of abusers among the Church is no greater than among society in general. Don’t take my word for it though, it’s one of the findings of a Garda Inspectorate report from 2017 -


It is widely recognised that clerical abuse, while particularly troubling, represents only a small fraction of the overall problem. Minister Ahern acknowledged this by developing comprehensive terms of reference for this inspection that include, but are not limited to, the handling of cases related to the clergy. During the course of its work, the Inspectorate conducted a thorough review of published reports relating to clerical sexual abuse, but also considered the full spectrum of child sexual abuses perpetrated by a wide variety of offenders.

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

My conscience is clear. What about you and (presumably) your church?

Complains about ad hom attack, launches one of your own in the face of criticism of your opinions.

Anyway, for what it’s worth, Frank is playing a blinder as far as PR goes, and sure, this is more of it, and yeah, it’s a small gesture, but it’s better than doing nothing as Plumbthedepths would point out. Does that mean Frank is off the hook as he’s now perceived to be a good man?

What does your own conscience say I suppose? Bearing in mind that people are innocent until found guilty of any wrongdoing in a Court of Law.

Raconteuse

joeguevara wrote: »

I am anti man made religion. Don’t go to mass and think it’s flawed.

But sometimes I think people just want to argue about anything. I see and hear so many talk about the homeless crisis and give out about the church not opening their doors. When they do, it’s a PR exercise.

Firstly what is a PR exercise. What do you think this PR achieve. convert millions or bring non believers back? Let’s say it was a PR exercise that the end result is making people thinking less fortunate. Is that a bad thing.

And the homeless who are warm for the night. Not freezing to death. Getting fed. Do you think they care about you thinking that it’s a PR exercise. Sanctimony won’t keep them warm and safe for the night. Being inside will.

Agreed. Dislike cynicism for the sake of it.

beauf

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

In religious news, the pope has his name associated with one good deed now:

Clever PR for the head of an institution ....

I didn't know about it till you posted it.

Since you posted it in after hours and with a click bait title you can hardly complain about PR stunts. It's hardly the first charitable act of religion either is it. Kinda of their bread and butter. So clever PR not really.

I think people hoped for more radical change from this Pope than this kinda stuff. But it hasn't happened.

joeguevara

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

Your edited version is less coherent so I replied to the other stuff below... I'm not here to decide whether Germany or The Vatican has perpetuated worse atrocities. I only drew the comparison because I look at the wealth which could try and mitigate some of the current devastation.


I'm not talking about you or me. I'm talking about the €30bn untaxed monies that are in the possession of the Catholic Church. This article was exceptional - I haven't seen many like it. As somebody said above, maybe PR isn't the intention and this gesture will snowball. But right now it's scarcely a hailstone.

(I didn't want to invoke wrath by using the word snowflake there, as I know many people get completely irrational when they see it).

Also to respond to whoever said it's not currently fashionable to dislike or question the church above, that any people at all in the world are actually walking around the place with that mindset is immensely troubling and needs to be addressed with some sort of public safety initiative. Like some sort of post-cult trauma reprogramming.

I’m 41 so don’t know why snow flake was used in response to me.

Calling my post incoherent is strange when out of the blue you referenced jewellery and Schindler list without context. My point was, should you disregard good things from a group or country just because of what happened previously.

You mention the wealth of the Church. Grand, if you want to debate that. That’s a different debate. We’d probably agree on most things there. But to call helping poor people a PR stunt is the point the point of this thread. I just think, PR of helping people might be a good thing. It’s not going to change people’s attitude to the church. But might start churches opening doors to homeless. Might start people being nicer to those less fortunate. Why not give it a chance instead of just giving out.

Plumbthedepths

One eyed Jack wrote: »

How does that apply to clerical abuse where it was the clergy who were perceived by society to be good men doing the Lords work?

The phrase is far too simplistic and can easily be applied either way depending upon the circumstances. The earliest attribution of the phrase goes back to a preacher who was calling for a prohibition on alcohol -

The maxim appeared in a quotation from a speech by the Reverend Charles F. Aked who was calling for restrictions on the use of alcohol:

It has been said that for evil men to accomplish their purpose it is only necessary that good men should do nothing.

My reply was in response to a poster who said not all in the church were abusers. True they weren't but they were enablers. Even Frank was defending a South American senior cleric who was guilty of abuse until it was no longer tenable to do so.

My favourite quote was from Ghandi " I like your Christ but not your Christianity".
Now I have no interest in responding further with you so save your energy in writing walls of text. It will be ignored.

One eyed Jack

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My reply was in response to a poster who said not all in the church were abusers. True they weren't but they were enablers. Even Frank was defending a South American senior cleric who was guilty of abuse until it was no longer tenable to do so.

My favourite quote was from Ghandi " I like your Christ but not your Christianity".
Now I have no interest in responding further with you so save your energy in writing walls of text. It will be ignored.

Not even close, and save the stupid sayings for someone who gives a ****e, they’re meaningless trite nonsense that’s meant to be profound but isn’t saying a whole lot really, or since you love the oul quotes so much, they’re full of sound and fury, signifying nothing :pac:


FWIW btw, Gandhi when he wasn’t campaigning for Indian independence was known to be a fairly odd bastard in his own right, wonder how you square that one -

Women suffer from Gandhi's legacy

joeguevara

Is the point of this thread that the Pope was wrong to help homeless because of the actions of the past?

If it is just a church bashing thread, I’m out. And as I said I’m not religious and don’t like man made church. But I like good things. No matter how small.

beauf

Anyone clicking in here expecting a soccer scandal will be bitterly disappointed.

joeguevara

beauf wrote: »

Anyone clicking in here expecting a soccer scandal will be bitterly disappointed.

Sure Jesus did go up for the cross until the Romans nailed him.

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Is the point of this thread that the Pope was wrong to help homeless because of the actions of the past?

If it is just a church bashing thread, I’m out. And as I said I’m not religious and don’t like man made church. But I like good things. No matter how small.

Second time you used the phrase... man made religion, or man made church... I'd imagine all religion is man made, so why state it that way>?

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

Clever PR for the head of an institution which can count itself as the actual root cause for most societal problems; must notably staggering and uncontrolled unsustainable population increases

China and India, have the largest populations in the world, and both reached those points before Christianity ever gained a foothold there. And it could be argued that the deaths from AIDS in Africa likely outweigh the overall population increases due to lack of condoms or other birth control options.

So... that's a pretty odd accusation to level at the RC.

, fear and rejection of education due to physical and sexual abuse of the children in its care

I attended a Marist brothers school. Wasn't abused and received top notch education... especially considering the economic situation of where and when I grew up. Zero accusations attributed to either Christian schools in my hometown.. go figure.

and active suppression of enlightened and progressive thought in the Western world.

Pretty wide range of time to cover with that comment. Any particular period? After all, the RC changed it's policies towards science many times, and often, it was dependent on the local priests rather than Rome itself.

Still... perhaps take a gander at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_clergy_scientists

As for enlightenment... that also brought about massive leaps in military technology and the bettering of ways to kill people.

You seem to want to take complicated topics, dumb them down to their most simplistic elements, and then say RC bad... Bad bad bad.

But hey, they lent 50 homeless people 16 rooms in one of their many disused palaces.

That's rather naive. They've been providing services to help the homeless for centuries. Bloody hell. Work a little harder in your desire to tear them down.

The gas thing is that I'm not religious. I can't stand religion. However, I'm not going to tear them down with simplistic rubbish like this. Have they done bad? Sure. Have they done good? Sure. :rolleyes:

joeguevara

To answer the above post without quoting all. I’m not a fan of the church which is man made. Religion is mostly man made but the basic facets of be good I.e 10 commandments aren’t. But is irrelevant to this thread as I don’t think it’s a bad thing giving shelter to homeless

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

To answer the above post without quoting all. I’m not a fan of the church which is man made. Religion is mostly man made but the basic facets of be good I.e 10 commandments aren’t. But is irrelevant to this thread as I don’t think it’s a bad thing giving shelter to homeless

What religion is not "man made"?

Even at the most basic level, the only object/subject that could possibly exist before human involvement/creation is God. Religion being a structure to understand the world through a particular perception and the worship of God... which would suggest that all religions are man made. Not mostly. Completely. Even if God instructed them to create a religion, no God I've read about ever provided an instruction booklet for the creation of the rules, belief structures, common practices etc... So the intention to create a religion might come from God, but the religion itself would still be... man made.

(And yes, I think clarifying "made made religion" is probably more interesting than the OPs post)

joeguevara

Deleted User wrote: »

What religion is not "man made"?

Even at the most basic level, the only object/subject that could possibly exist before human involvement/creation is God. Religion being a structure to understand the world through a particular perception and the worship of God... which would suggest that all religions are man made. Not mostly. Completely. Even if God instructed them to create a religion, no God I've read about ever provided an instruction booklet for the creation of the rules, belief structures, common practices etc... So the intention to create a religion might come from God, but the religion itself would still be... man made.

(And yes, I think clarifying "made made religion" is probably more interesting than the OPs post)

Well to me religion is a belief in god. That belief isn’t man made because if it was god didn’t exist. Everything after that is man made. If that makes sense.

Mrs OBumble

the_syco wrote: »

Now that the single mothers are gone (Irish families used to throw them into The Magdalene Laundries), the pope will allow homeless people to live in it, whilst they learn about the RCC.

Fixed that for ya.

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Well to me religion is a belief in god. That belief isn’t man made because if it was god didn’t exist. Everything after that is man made. If that makes sense.

Ok. Then you believe in what I said. :pac: No need to write man made religion then. Just write religion.

Deebles McBeebles

Gerardo Square Cinnamon wrote: »

Clever PR for the head of an institution which can count itself as the actual root cause for most societal problems; must notably staggering and uncontrolled unsustainable population increases, fear and rejection of education due to physical and sexual abuse of the children in its care and active suppression of enlightened and progressive thought in the Western world. But hey, they lent 50 homeless people 16 rooms in one of their many disused palaces.

100%.

Graces7

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is it Pr or is it a nice generous thing to do? Does everything have to have an ulterior motive

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

And of course the Pope does not own anything. He has the use of accommodation as he is now giving the use of the building to homeless folk. End of!

creditcarder

The Chatolic Church was good for Ireland. Travel to countries where the soviet union fell and they had similar difficulties without a unifying religion and honestly say that you would prefer Ireland to be athiest.



Imo, the problem was more De Valera's American blend of Catholocism rather than Catholocism in general.

Graces7

beauf wrote: »

I didn't know about it till you posted it.

Since you posted it in after hours and with a click bait title you can hardly complain about PR stunts. It's hardly the first charitable act of religion either is it. Kinda of their bread and butter. So clever PR not really.

I think people hoped for more radical change from this Pope than this kinda stuff. But it hasn't happened.

Kinda hoped for more from this thread. Guess we are all disappointed.

The Pope is not a free agent and cannot act on his own volition. He owns nothing and has to consult Cardinals etc. He is a ruler not a dictator. he will have fought hard for this.

creditcarder

Deleted User wrote: »

The gas thing is that I'm not religious. I can't stand religion. However, I'm not going to tear them down with simplistic rubbish like this. Have they done bad? Sure. Have they done good? Sure. :rolleyes:

I'm a car crash catholic. Not really a catholic, but I'll be praying in a car crash, but I kind of see the Catholic church as, at it's roots, not actually that bad for the times it grew up in vs other thought patterns.



Tbh, I'd tentatively class it as good.

El_Duderino 09

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is it Pr or is it a mice generous thing to do? Does everything have to have an ulterior motive

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

Yes of course it’s PR. they could spend their billions in ways that would help loads of homeless instead of hoarding it. They could also decide to never spend any of that money helping child abusers get away with their crimes.

But I can’t fault this particular move. It’s mostly symbolic but it also has some real benefits for the homeless people in the area.

It’s actually a pretty Christlike thing to do. Shur didn’t Jesus live in a palace and have billions In investments and give away a few small bits in charity? Or was Jesus the one who lived as an itinerant and gave all he had to people in greater need than himself?

Strumms

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I'm sure everyone in the catholic church are not evil child abusers.

100%, only a minute minute percentage ever have been, just like the secular world however the abuse, organized cover ups, denials and the general evil shenanigans propagated by the institution across the planet, across decades en masse is defining as to their overall outlook on society and very representative of the people they attract and enable to be in their inner sanctum.

Millicently

There's a scary number of homeless elderly Italian people eating out of bins on the streets of Rome at night. About time the Pope took some interest in them instead of lecturing Europe about the need to accommodate illegal African and Muslim economic migrants.

4068ac1elhodqr

The Pope chap is missing a trick here, he should be in athiest China giving them a glimmer of hope, as they start to burn up 10's of thousands due to nCoV'19.

The Charismatics have had good success across the Far East across Malaysia and so on, to be fair they're a bit more craic and put on a better show.

Plumbthedepths

creditcarder wrote: »

The Chatolic Church was good for Ireland.

1/10 very poor attempt at trolling.

creditcarder

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

1/10 very poor attempt at trolling.

I'm really not. It's very easy to point the fingers to the past when we have acess to the EU, Britain is not militarilised towards most of the Island, agriculture has improved to the point that you do not need the traditional model of family and the working force and community has changed



But, imo, the catholic church gave a good framework to society and definetely provided a reason to be when times were tough and food was scarce.

Plumbthedepths

creditcarder wrote: »

I'm really not. It's very easy to point the fingers to the past when we have acess to the EU, Britain is not militarilised towards most of the Island, agriculture has improved to the point that you do not need the traditional model of family and the working force and community has changed



But, imo, the catholic church gave a good framework to society and definetely provided a reason to be when times were tough and food was scarce.

As I said very poor attempt, you remind me of another poster with the same style of posting also detached from 'reality'.
Try harder.