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Cheapest golf club membership with gui for 2020
Comments
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I can see the value of the P&P in some cases but in my club definitely not. I already subsidise a ridiculous amount of life members who contribute very little to the club or bar. Not sure i could stretch my generosity to cater for anyone else.0
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thewobbler wrote: »It’s called supply and demand.
If your product isn’t getting the sales it needs to return a profit, you either stop selling the product, or you rebadge it and sell it as something else. If you don’t, you’re going out of business.
Golf club membership in NI has allegedly fallen by 30% in 15 years, even though in real terms, golf club (traditional member model) membership has never been cheaper, and never been easier to attain. All to a backdrop of 3 major winners, home of The Open, a series of Irish Opens, and the now mythological status of RCD and Portrush all ensuring that public interest in the sport has never been higher.
So when members of rural courses in Armagh, Antrim, Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone ask the question “Why should clubs have to cater for those who don't care if they close or not?”, they’re actually asking the wrong question.
They should be asking “if we want a golf club in this town, how can we cater for as many people as possible in this town?”.
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Members longing for days of yore to return are slowly killing the clubs they proclaim to love.
I am not an old fuddy duddy longing for days of yore and our club has changed significantly (for the better) over the past 15 years or more. We are doing quite well as it happens but we are not in it for profit. All money generated is used to maintain and improve the course and facilities. So in fact the members who love THIS club and give up a lot of time to running it are keeping it very much alive!
There's a huge difference to being an active member of a club to just rocking up 3 or 4 times a year and paying green fees somewhere. There's also a huge difference between small clubs like ours and the 'corporate juggernauts' that will happily look for €300 a round and think that's acceptable.0 -
I'm sure you can't, but I'd check with your treasurer and committee before you roll out the new model.
Let's say the average full member plays 20 competitions a year, that's pretty much every weekend during the summer months and a bit before and after.
Using your model that would cost them 900 ish. So they have saved 500 ish on their previous costs. The club can't recoup these as that prime playing slot is still used up u that same golfer.
Where does money now come from?
If this is the average member and the average club has 500 members, now your club is down 125,000 a year with no more golf slots to sell than they had before your model.
I just don't see how you think the numbers work for the club, clearly they work for you!
What you need to remember is that clubs are not trying to make money, they are trying to be self financing. There is no owner taking the profits home at the end of the year.
What your post really distills down to is that you want to be a member without having to pay for it because you can't use it 7 days a week. You need to stop thinking about it as a gym membership, it's a club that you are buying a part of, you are not just renting the course for a few hours.
Wow - €70 a round - these "average" guys must really subscribe to your member of a club philosophy!
I'm not suggesting every club should do this - if your club has a waiting list of people hoping to pay €1k+ a year subs then fantastic - that probably means it is a great club in a good (probably urban) area.
Some people do just want to play a bit of golf, and don't have the resources in terms of time and/or money to do the whole joining fee, big sub, comps every Saturday thing etc. If your (or any other) club is not interested in this then more power to it. But if a club has low member numbers and is struggling to break even then an alternative offering to attract more members surely makes sense (obviously being careful that the offering doesn't, as you say, take away full members).
Tell me, if a friend of yours in a nice (but financially struggling due to too few members) club down the country (say outside a large county town) phoned you up and said: I've been appointed as corporate/marketing manager for X club and basically we aren't sustainable as things stand - we need to bring in more revenue. Any suggestions? What would you tell him (apart from let the market do its job and then join another course 25 miles down the road along with 50 other members from your club)?0 -
paulanthony wrote: »Ok, let's just leave it as it is so. There's clearly absolutely no possible room for any other models / offerings than those which have been used for the last hundred years?
I'll give myself as an example. Currently not a member anywhere. With a small child etc I'm not going to join a club on a full membership paying (and I'm using St Margaret's here as an example as it has its prices online) €1,395 a year as that would probably cost be well in excess of €100 per round and I don't really have that spare. I'm also not going to join as a 5 day member for €749 as I work M-F so that's just not a runner, even if it was half that price. So I'm not someone who would be downgrading from a full sub to an alternative one.
I would however join if they offered the following for say €300ish: Associate membership, GUI, 8 rounds a year (4 M-F, 4 Weekends but not before 10am), can't play the weekends of the club majors, extra rounds €15 Mon-Thur ¦ €20 Fri ¦ €30 Sat/Sun (plus all the other usual exclusions from interclub teams, committees etc). I can't see that being too disruptive to the full members.
Between the sub and a few additional green fees, meals, spend in the shop this would potentially amount to a €500-600 spend by me over the season. 20 of those = €10k. It also gives me the opportunity to be a member somewhere and participate in the sport. Hopefully I then become a full member five years later.
I appreciate people will just reply saying sure let's design memberships to totally suit you and your requirements, but I expect that would suit a lot of people and encourage them to take the plunge and join a club. I don't think it would encourage Mr/s Saturday comp for the last 15 years to downgrade (unless s/he was planning to give up membership anyway).
This is exactly the type of golfer that clubs are getting virtually nothing from at the moment. There's no point in joining anywhere in those circumstances really, so you'll just do something else instead.
It's extremely difficult to balance off getting as much out of these people as you can, not losing full members to your new membership options and not having your full members feel like they are subsidising the other golfers.
I think 7 day pay and play options are underused. That's what I have in corballis and I find it great. Thanks to a period of unemployment I've actually spent 25% more than I would have had I become a full member, but I couldn't have known that when I joined. Now I'm hoping to play about once a fortnight to once a month which would work out about the same price as full membership. But if I only get to play 6 times in the year, I'll pay about 60% of full membership, it'll only cost me €65 per round (or you could say the club will get €65 for 6 spots on the timesheet), but I'll get to play in comps, opens will be available to me and I'll be a member somewhere which I want. And even though I've paid far more than green fees is have been, I won't mind too much because I won't have sunk a full membership fee at the start of the year.
But clubs should check out the figures with regard to pay and play and see how they look. If someone is only using it once a month they're only using up 12 spots on the time sheet in the year. If you have a €500 pay and play option you'd be getting €60 for each of these slots (sounds much better than offering cheap green fees on line). If they use it 20 times they might end up paying the equivalent of a full membership. So the people you'd be worried about moving to the pay and play option would be the ones who are using their membership very little at the moment. And clubs should be worried about losing these people already!
You'd also have the benefit of these pay and play people possibly taking up full membership later, sending their kids to the club, bringing in new members, green fees, etc.
There's also the golf club catastrophe around the corner from older members retiring their memberships / dying without younger members to replace them. This is going to accelerate some year and clubs will find themselves losing members hands over fist all of a sudden. They should be trying to recruit new members now to replace them before it's too late.0 -
This is exactly the type of golfer that clubs are getting virtually nothing from at the moment. There's no point in joining anywhere in those circumstances really, so you'll just do something else instead.
It's extremely difficult to balance off getting as much out of these people as you can, not losing full members to your new membership options and not having your full members feel like they are subsidising the other golfers.
I think 7 day pay and play options are underused. That's what I have in corballis and I find it great. Thanks to a period of unemployment I've actually spent 25% more than I would have had I become a full member, but I couldn't have known that when I joined. Now I'm hoping to play about once a fortnight to once a month which would work out about the same price as full membership. But if I only get to play 6 times in the year, I'll pay about 60% of full membership, it'll only cost me €65 per round (or you could say the club will get €65 for 6 spots on the timesheet), but I'll get to play in comps, opens will be available to me and I'll be a member somewhere which I want. And even though I've paid far more than green fees is have been, I won't mind too much because I won't have sunk a full membership fee at the start of the year.
But clubs should check out the figures with regard to pay and play and see how they look. If someone is only using it once a month they're only using up 12 spots on the time sheet in the year. If you have a €500 pay and play option you'd be getting €60 for each of these slots (sounds much better than offering cheap green fees on line). If they use it 20 times they might end up paying the equivalent of a full membership. So the people you'd be worried about moving to the pay and play option would be the ones who are using their membership very little at the moment. And clubs should be worried about losing these people already!
You'd also have the benefit of these pay and play people possibly taking up full membership later, sending their kids to the club, bringing in new members, green fees, etc.
There's also the golf club catastrophe around the corner from older members retiring their memberships / dying without younger members to replace them. This is going to accelerate some year and clubs will find themselves losing members hands over fist all of a sudden. They should be trying to recruit new members now to replace them before it's too late.
Exactly. The fear members have of their clubs being overrun with some kind of economy members or of them being subsidised isn't really justified. As you say if you take up a lot of time on the timesheet you'll pay for it, probably more than a full member. If you play once a month then this doesn't have impact (massively) on members - plus you ARE paying for it.
The subsidy thing may be more of an issue with the U-35 memberships or lifetime members etc who are paying €500 and playing twice a week every week - fair enough.0 -
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Our full membership is €600 per year so it's not like we are fleecing people who don't play as much. I appreciate that it gets expensive per round if it's over €1k like a lot of Dublin / larger urban centre clubs can charge as they have the numbers available to them. If everyone is playing to the cheapest common denominator then the clubs wont survive and it's not all about economics, as I said we are not a corporate owners profit making club.
I do think that some people on here have absolutely no idea of the effort, energy and time that it takes to keep small clubs alive.0 -
Wichita Lineman wrote: »Our full membership is €600 per year so it's not like we are fleecing people who don't play as much. I appreciate that it gets expensive per round if it's over €1k like a lot of Dublin / larger urban centre clubs can charge as they have the numbers available to them. If everyone is playing to the cheapest common denominator then the clubs wont survive and it's not all about economics, as I said we are not a corporate owners profit making club.
I do think that some people on here have absolutely no idea of the effort, energy and time that it takes to keep small clubs alive.
€600 is very reasonable and I wouldn't expect your club to need to offer other types. It's more when that starts to double or more.
I don't think it's about the cheapest common denominator - it's about growing the audience by offering a wider variety of options depending on the relevant person.
I don't think anybody is not appreciating the effort of keeping a club going. In fact, the suggestions centre around trying to come up with ideas to help with this - which I'm sure committees are doing up and down the country.0 -
I'd still say a P&P 7 day option is worth looking at. You probably have a few members who hardly get to play. If that goes on for a couple of years they'll leave. They'll look and say I've played about 20 times over the last 3 years, 90 quid per round, easy decision. Whereas if there was a €300 pay and play option, I'd be likely to keep that in the hope I'd use it, but also to stay in touch with the club, keep a handicap, etc. If I then played a dozen rounds and paid €15 for each the club would be down €150 from me instead of €600.
And for those once a fortnight golfers it wouldn't be worth their while to switch.
If you price so that playing once a week works out the same as full membership you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you price it right you can increase your revenue, not devalue your course, clog up the timesheet and improve your prospects for the future.
As regards the work members do to run a club - the guys barely playing don't do this already. If they had more time to go to the club, they'd play more golf.
I could imagine members giving out about this of course. But they won't leave, they'll just moan. Roughly speaking I think half price membership, half price green fees is about right. But closing yourself off to members who can't play regularly just seems misguided to me. And definitely stuck in the past.0 -
I'd still say a P&P 7 day option is worth looking at. You probably have a few members who hardly get to play. If that goes on for a couple of years they'll leave. They'll look and say I've played about 20 times over the last 3 years, 90 quid per round, easy decision. Whereas if there was a €300 pay and play option, I'd be likely to keep that in the hope I'd use it, but also to stay in touch with the club, keep a handicap, etc. If I then played a dozen rounds and paid €15 for each the club would be down €150 from me instead of €600.
And for those once a fortnight golfers it wouldn't be worth their while to switch.
If you price so that playing once a week works out the same as full membership you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you price it right you can increase your revenue, not devalue your course, clog up the timesheet and improve your prospects for the future.
As regards the work members do to run a club - the guys barely playing don't do this already. If they had more time to go to the club, they'd play more golf.
I could imagine members giving out about this of course. But they won't leave, they'll just moan. Roughly speaking I think half price membership, half price green fees is about right. But closing yourself off to members who can't play regularly just seems misguided to me. And definitely stuck in the past.
We tried a reduced membership fee and €5 per round thereafter and it was a financial disaster and was discontinued very quickly. In small clubs any scheme that is designed for a very tiny amount of golfers is usually detrimental to existing club members. Like it or lump it. That's not old fashioned. You don't always get what you want. That's not old fashioned either.0 -
Wichita Lineman wrote: »Our full membership is €600 per year so it's not like we are fleecing people who don't play as much. I appreciate that it gets expensive per round if it's over €1k like a lot of Dublin / larger urban centre clubs can charge as they have the numbers available to them. If everyone is playing to the cheapest common denominator then the clubs wont survive and it's not all about economics, as I said we are not a corporate owners profit making club.
I do think that some people on here have absolutely no idea of the effort, energy and time that it takes to keep small clubs alive.
Oh what an enjoyable course, Played it last year and thought how wonderful it was and I did have a thought that when I retire or any other retiree for that matter with travel pass could join and play for nominal joining fee, Just jump on the train and it stops right outside..no worry about drink driving and all that .Very welcoming clubhouse.I will be back0 -
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And why did it fail? Was it the pricing structure of it? €5 per round seems far too small to me.
It works on corballis so I do think it's a model that can work. Possibly not everywhere, but you'd really need to know the reason it failed to be able to say much about it.
But what happened? Was the membership for this option significantly cheaper than full membership and people changed over to that and the difference wasn't made up? I think anyone playing 20 times a year on pay and play needs to be paying about the equivalent of full membership for it to work.
And actually, if you tried it you're not stuck in the past, but I think ye just didn't get it right.0 -
And why did it fail? Was it the pricing structure of it? €5 per round seems far too small to me.
It works on corballis so I do think it's a model that can work. Possibly not everywhere, but you'd really need to know the reason it failed to be able to say much about it.
But what happened? Was the membership for this option significantly cheaper than full membership and people changed over to that and the difference wasn't made up? I think anyone playing 20 times a year on pay and play needs to be paying about the equivalent of full membership for it to work.
And actually, if you tried it you're not stuck in the past, but I think ye just didn't get it right.
I don't know all the details but basically it didn't generate enough interest to bring in enough new members, some full members dropped back to it and we lost revenue from them. It also led to increased administration in ensuring the €5 was collected from this category of member and it led to a feeling (probably untrue, certainly unproven) that some members didn't bother paying the €5 each time they used the course.
I actually think our membership base is too small to make any major changes that will be worthwhile. We do have various reduced fees for students / youth members and I think that's all we'll do for now.0 -
There’s a membership for those who only want to play a few times in the year. It’s called a green fee.0
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and this is exactly the point. Its not a gym, you are not working out your cost per round since being a member of a club is about much more than that.paulanthony wrote: »Wow - €70 a round - these "average" guys must really subscribe to your member of a club philosophy!
So join a society and/or pay your greenfees.paulanthony wrote: »
Some people do just want to play a bit of golf, and don't have the resources in terms of time and/or money to do the whole joining fee, big sub, comps every Saturday thing etc.paulanthony wrote: »Tell me, if a friend of yours in a nice (but financially struggling due to too few members) club down the country (say outside a large county town) phoned you up and said: I've been appointed as corporate/marketing manager for X club and basically we aren't sustainable as things stand - we need to bring in more revenue. Any suggestions? What would you tell him (apart from let the market do its job and then join another course 25 miles down the road along with 50 other members from your club)?
I'd look at cutting expenses and/or reducing standards.
Long term you would look at introductory offers, but you cant just chop your prices for the same product. the course doesnt know if the fourball at 10am paid €100 or €40.
Again I'm not saying this isn't a real approach for individual clubs, but all that club is doing is taking members from other nearby clubs and I see it as a temporary measure at best.
BTW there is zero wrong with deciding that you dont have the numbers to support a top quality course and lowering your standards, there are already courses of varying standards asking for varying fees. Cut your cloth and all that.0 -
I'd still say a P&P 7 day option is worth looking at. You probably have a few members who hardly get to play. If that goes on for a couple of years they'll leave. They'll look and say I've played about 20 times over the last 3 years, 90 quid per round, easy decision. Whereas if there was a €300 pay and play option, I'd be likely to keep that in the hope I'd use it, but also to stay in touch with the club, keep a handicap, etc. If I then played a dozen rounds and paid €15 for each the club would be down €150 from me instead of €600.
And for those once a fortnight golfers it wouldn't be worth their while to switch.
If you price so that playing once a week works out the same as full membership you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you price it right you can increase your revenue, not devalue your course, clog up the timesheet and improve your prospects for the future.
As regards the work members do to run a club - the guys barely playing don't do this already. If they had more time to go to the club, they'd play more golf.
I could imagine members giving out about this of course. But they won't leave, they'll just moan. Roughly speaking I think half price membership, half price green fees is about right. But closing yourself off to members who can't play regularly just seems misguided to me. And definitely stuck in the past.
I think as soon as you are working out your cost per round you have moved out of the idea of membership.0 -
http://blessingtonlakesgolfclub.com/project/e150-golf-membership-deal/
I think GUI is on top of the 150 but its hard to find much less.0 -
I think as soon as you are working out your cost per round you have moved out of the idea of membership.
Nope. You're just married to the idea of a traditional member, the type of guy who gets out twice a month or more.
I wanted to get back into golf but couldn't really justify paying a full membership given how much I'm expecting to get out over the next couple of years. And I certainly thought about how much I'd be paying for membership and how often I'd actually use it (and I couldn't avoid dividing one into the other!). I'd think the same way with gym membership - if I use it once per month this will cost me €40 per trip to the gym or whatever.
So with full membership out, society golf was obviously an option. But they'll usually play once a month or so. And my problem is how few weekends will suit me, so I'd end up only making a couple of events per year. With work Monday to Friday and club comps on sundays and bank holidays, I'd only have Saturdays available to me (so half the days compared to club membership). If I tried to play with my friends who also play I'd have to book it in weeks in advance to find a Saturday we all have time free. The end result of it all would be me playing at most 6 times per year and ultimately contributing about €150 - €200 to golf clubs over the year.
Compare this to my pay and play option and this way I have twice as many days I can play. I'm not reliant on my friends or society to have people to play with, I can just check the timesheet and stick my name down. I'll easily play twice as often this way, so this is a far better option for me. And from my clubs point of view, if I play a dozen times per year they'll get €480 from me from membership and fee per round (full membership is €700). Come to think of it you could add in another hundred from the fee for paying by dd, waters, coffees, glove, balls, etc, I've brought mates there so they've extra green fees. So they're very much winning too.
And I'm not the only one like this. My brother in law is joining this month in the same position, my friend did the same at Christmas. There are loads of (in particular) guys 25 - 45 years old in this sort of situation. They're a lost generation of golfers, many will join later many won't. But they want to spend money on golf they just don't want to be ripped off for it. The full member might resent the pay and play member for having the course available to them just as much, but they're not taking up half as many slots (and if they do they're likely subsidising the full member). But if the golfer who doesn't play much has to pay full membership fees you can be sure they'll resent it and vote with their wallet. They leave in this age bracket and are unlikely to join courses. And it's both the player and clubs who miss out.0 -
Hi, I’m planning on taking the year out but want to keep my handicap going in case I play the odd open comp. what is the lowest golf club membership with gui for 2020 that people have come across.
Distance member at slievenamon GC is the lowest I’ve seen @ €150
Thats €2.88 a week....long drive from cavan i suppose:)0 -
. I'd think the same way with gym membership - if I use it once per month this will cost me €40 per trip to the gym or whatever.
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A golf club is not a gym.
The your post just reads like you want clubs to offer something that just suits you and to help with the clubs finances. This doesn't suit and that doesn't suit, etc, etc.
You keep missing that your cheap Saturday round is blocking a full member from playing, the the club is missing out on that 700.
They are not winning at all. The full member guarantees them 700, whether they play or not, with you they might get 480, or they might get nothing...who knows?!
But they still have to include you when determining how many members can play as no one will pay anything if the club is over subscribed.
25-35 has always been an issue for golf, its when people are starting work, families and probably still playing other sports at the weekend, this isn't something new or recent.0 -
In Dublin there are plenty of courses at all price points, very few of them struggling to fill time sheets.
There are 4 or 5 courses Northside that offer pay and play not sure there is any need for more than that.
I'm in my late 40s and I couldn't join a club because I didn't have the 4k min joining fee, never mind the sub or the time. I have little sympathy for people whinging they can't join a club.
If u don't have time pay green fees, join a pay and play that has that model and join a club of your choice when u can afford the money and time the same as everyone did since membership began.
But get in before joining fees come back.0 -
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doublecross wrote: »Don't think that rule is being enforced.
Definitely being enforced for inter club competitions0 -
princess poppy wrote: »Definitely being enforced for inter club competitions
It is enforced for inter club because it is in the rules but most clubs ignore it when it comes to open singles I would say. Most clubs are not going to turn away revenue if they don't have to. I must say, I would like if it was fully enforced through Golfnet or something but would be difficult to completely enforce I'd imagine. Like, if I haven't played the requisite number of "home" competitions and I try to play an open singles elsewhere there is nothing stopping the proshop from allowing me pay the fee but not sign into computer. It would be like a cheap greenfee but no comp entry (Which is not what should be allowd obviously)0 -
A golf club is not a gym.
The your post just reads like you want clubs to offer something that just suits you and to help with the clubs finances. This doesn't suit and that doesn't suit, etc, etc.
You keep missing that your cheap Saturday round is blocking a full member from playing, the the club is missing out on that 700.
They are not winning at all. The full member guarantees them 700, whether they play or not, with you they might get 480, or they might get nothing...who knows?!
But they still have to include you when determining how many members can play as no one will pay anything if the club is over subscribed.
25-35 has always been an issue for golf, its when people are starting work, families and probably still playing other sports at the weekend, this isn't something new or recent.A golf club is not a gym.
The your post just reads like you want clubs to offer something that just suits you and to help with the clubs finances. This doesn't suit and that doesn't suit, etc, etc.
You keep missing that your cheap Saturday round is blocking a full member from playing, the the club is missing out on that 700.
They are not winning at all. The full member guarantees them 700, whether they play or not, with you they might get 480, or they might get nothing...who knows?!
But they still have to include you when determining how many members can play as no one will pay anything if the club is over subscribed.
25-35 has always been an issue for golf, its when people are starting work, families and probably still playing other sports at the weekend, this isn't something new or recent.
Of course I want clubs to offer something that suits me. I care about the sustainability of the club and game too, so I also want it to suit them.
You can my Saturday round cheap, but I don't see how it is. Because I've gotten to play so much, I'm less than 6 months into my year and have already paid more than an annual membership to them. I'll almost certainly end up paying over €1000 for golf there in the year, compared to €700 for a full member. Which is fine, I didn't think I'd get so much use from it, I'm delighted I have.
But if I didn't get to play much it would be far from a cheap round. If I'd played 12 times a year it would cost me €40 per round. Green fees would be the cheaper option then. And they take up space on the time sheet too.
And if course clubs have to consider capacity when working out how much membership they can offer. If they're lucky enough to be in the situation where they're oversubscribed, then they probably don't have to look at pay and play options, although I'd say it's a good idea to keep the younger members members. In a very similar way to what clubs are doing with intermediate membership up to 35 years old now. And I don't hear a kerfuffle over that. But they can we in and not offer too many pay and play packages to begin with while they're seeing how much they use it. And then when they know how much each category will likely use the course then they can decide how much to offer.
I'd also think of if I was living in tramore still what I'd do about membership. I think tramore costs about €1200 at the moment, compared to about half that for the municipal course. There are advantages to tramore - location, course. But there's no way I'd be able to justify 1200 given how much I'd expect to play. So I'd more than likely join the municipal. If there was a pay and play option in tramore I'd value that at more than the full membership in the municipal. In which case tramore would be about to get about €800 out of me if they offered a party and play option for half the cost of membership and rounds cost half of green fees. As opposed to a hundred euro or so from a few open comp entrance fees & green fees.
The policing of it as someone said could be a problem alright though. Works fine where I am, but if you have a club where people don't tend to check into the pro shop / book in before playing people would take advantage. You'd have to get the whole membership into booking in every time they play for it to work.0 -
A club doesnt have to be oversubscribed to have to worry about contention on the timesheet; again, 99% of your membership wants to play on a Saturday, 99% of your P&P people want to play on a Saturday, 99% of your random greenfees want to play on a Saturday....everyone wants to play at the same time.And if course clubs have to consider capacity when working out how much membership they can offer. If they're lucky enough to be in the situation where they're oversubscribed, then they probably don't have to look at pay and play options, although I'd say it's a good idea to keep the younger members members. In a very similar way to what clubs are doing with intermediate membership up to 35 years old now. And I don't hear a kerfuffle over that. But they can we in and not offer too many pay and play packages to begin with while they're seeing how much they use it. And then when they know how much each category will likely use the course then they can decide how much to offer.
Even trialing this out would mean someone is getting a better deal for the same product than normal members.
and btw there is a kerfuffle regarding intermediates, at least in any of the clubs I am aware of. If you are 35 you are a fully grown adult in employment for probably 10 years, its not like you are 19 and just out of school.0 -
@Greebo, here’s the thing. By highlighting that intermediates are causing a kerfuffle in most clubs, you’re trying to push it across as evidence that tiered membership doesn’t work. Whereas I would interpret this problem as one that was only created because a one-size-fits-all approach was failing in many clubs. And it’s those who are obsessed with a business model that wasn’t working, who do all the complaining. It would seem that their preferred approach to golf club sustainability is to push their head in the sand and make it a problem for the next generation.
@mike12, there is likely no other product in the world that has maintained the same pricing structure since golf membership began. Open markets and supply and demand will always drive change. The thought process that begins with “this is the way we have always done it” is one of the most dangerous for any organisation.
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In general. There’s a few comments on here that the purpose of a golf club is not to generate profits.
You are absolutely right.
The measures that clubs are being forced into across Ireland aren’t designed to generate reserves. They’re designed purely to allow clubs who’ve depleted their reserves, to break even.0 -
No, its an issue of trying to sell something for below cost and have someone else cover up the shortfall.thewobbler wrote: »@Greebo, here’s the thing. By highlighting that intermediates are causing a kerfuffle in most clubs, you’re trying to push it across as evidence that tiered membership doesn’t work. Whereas I would interpret this problem as one that was only created because a one-size-fits-all approach was failing in many clubs. And it’s those who are obsessed with a business model that wasn’t working, who do all the complaining. It would seem that their preferred approach to golf club sustainability is to push their head in the sand and make it a problem for the next generation.
Its simple to attract members, you just lower the fees and lower the standard of the product.
What you can't do is just lower the fees to attract new people, this is exactly what everyone bitches about when Banks, Insurance companies or Energy suppliers offer special rates to new people only. Why would it surprise you that this pisses off existing "members".
Its pushing your head into the sand in extreme by cutting costs for short term gain and ignoring what it will do to your club long term.
That's pretty disingenuous tbf. No one is saying that it's just because we have always done it this way. The current models are what is needed for long term sustainability within clubs. Supply & Demand is exactly what means that more clubs have to close until supply matches demand.thewobbler wrote: »@mike12, there is likely no other product in the world that has maintained the same pricing structure since golf membership began. Open markets and supply and demand will always drive change. The thought process that begins with “this is the way we have always done it” is one of the most dangerous for any organisation.
You are trying to increase demand by lowering prices beyond what is sustainable and is likely to alienate your membership base.0 -
I think there’s a decent number of members wrapped up in the traditional membership model who pay big money annually and do the whole “I’ll play this year” but never actually really use the membership. I think that number is dwindling because many people are stretched which is hurting the member owned clubs with traditional membership models. The 50 something plays every sat morning merchants won’t ever recognise that..they also claim they’re funding the whole place alone.0
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I think there’s a decent number of members wrapped up in the traditional membership model who pay big money annually and do the whole “I’ll play this year” but never actually really use the membership. I think that number is dwindling because many people are stretched which is hurting the member owned clubs with traditional membership models. The 50 something plays every sat morning merchants won’t ever recognise that..they also claim they’re funding the whole place alone.
It's definitely dwindling. When I was growing up people were terrified to let their membership lapse because they were worried about the waiting list to get back in. That's a problem virtually nowhere now. And lots of people when they finish intermediate membership won't bother transferring if they're not getting the use out of it.
But you're right, there's definitely a traditional mindset in a lot of clubs regarding membership. I think it's incredible to see people not want to consider how much people actually use a course along with how much it's available for them to use. I was a distance member in tramore for a coupe of years and I know there were people opposed to introducing it as a membership category. So there were no restrictions on me playing compared to a full member, but I was living Dublin and only getting down half a dozen times a year. Per time I played they were getting €70-80 from me, but I know some members felt the club would be better off not offering this type of membership, and this is a club that has taken big hits financially over the last 15 years.
And I was looking at the corballis pay and play option. If you play 21 times or less it would be cheaper to pay green fees. 25 times or more and it would be cheaper to pay full membership. There's a tiny window where pay and play is the cheapest option.0 -
And I was looking at the corballis pay and play option. If you play 21 times or less it would be cheaper to pay green fees. 25 times or more and it would be cheaper to pay full membership. There's a tiny window where pay and play is the cheapest option.
You are stuck on this cost per round model.
How do you expect a club to balance the books when they have no idea how much money they are going to get in every year?
At the moment they have guaranteed income thats paid for the year in January.
If that changes to the majority moving to P2P then how do they afford to pay the lads to cut the grass in winter?0 -
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thewobbler wrote: »
If every club in Ireland steadfastly retains the traditional membership model, surely the only outcome is fewer golf clubs?
Absolutely.
It'll take a few harsh winter's before the word change is permitted in our clubhouse.0
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