Aviva Property funds

Peter File

No thread on what should be a big story today

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0131/1112267-outflows-lead-to-restrictions-on-aviva-property-funds/

RedRochey

Similar to trying to prevent a run on the banks, if everyone panics then it will just cause more damage

antix80

Customers would be wise to give their 6 months notice now.. It's would be worth finding out if the request can be cancelled at customer request during the notice period.

BillyBird

Yeah, an odd one alright.


Nothing in the article about what might have spurred the initial (presumably large) withdrawals.


Overvalued? Fear about a global recession? Concern that next government will be more left leaning?

"Our view is that the fundamentals of the Irish commercial property market remain strong,"

All she needs to do is to work something in about a "soft landing" and it'll be peak déjà vu

RedRochey

Could be people taking profits off the table, derisking some bit

Jim2007

Peter File wrote: »

No thread on what should be a big story today

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0131/1112267-outflows-lead-to-restrictions-on-aviva-property-funds/

If people invest in ‘Mickey Mouse’ property funds they should not be surprised if it goes wrong. The funds are not remotely close in size to be able to provide the necessary risk diversity and liquidity capacity.

People have learned absolutely nothing from the last recession and the press and financial advisors are not helping.

Mad_maxx

Jim2007 wrote: »

If people invest in ‘Mickey Mouse’ property funds they should not be surprised if it goes wrong. The funds are not remotely close in size to be able to provide the necessary risk diversity and liquidity capacity.

People have learned absolutely nothing from the last recession and the press and financial advisors are not helping.

Jim, just like men, surely not all property funds are created equal?

Take for example IRES ( disclosure - I've a few grand in it), involves a huge Canadian investor CAPREIT, they own thousands of apartments in Dublin with a largely well paid tenant clientele.

Why is investing in that kind of security so taboo to you, Ireland is obviously small but Dublin is a major location for multinationals, does that count for nothing?

Add to that, in real terms only a tiny number of irish people have money riding on the success of these funds, it's not systematic risk circa 2008

RedRochey

Jim2007 wrote: »

If people invest in ‘Mickey Mouse’ property funds they should not be surprised if it goes wrong. The funds are not remotely close in size to be able to provide the necessary risk diversity and liquidity capacity.

People have learned absolutely nothing from the last recession and the press and financial advisors are not helping.

What makes the fund 'Mickey Mouse'? Not arguing with you, just curious to know your opinion.

It's an Irish commercial property fund so by definition it's not going to be as diverse as other funds

Jim2007

StockTwat29 wrote: »

It's an Irish commercial property fund so by definition it's not going to be as diverse as other funds

You live in Euroland from an investment point of view and you should construct your portfolio accordingly. When you read all the material and research on portfolio construction, the outcomes are based on a large economy, not a small open economy on the edge of Europe. Expecting a similar outcome to the research while investing in a totally different situation will not work out. The literature warns about investing in what they call penny stocks, but that is exactly what you do when you invest in most Irish stocks, they are penny stocks!

Generally speaking a low risk portfolio is one where property is 6 or 7 percent, but that 6 or 7 percent is assumed to be in a well diversified, liquid fund of some time not these Irish funds. If you go with an Irish property fund as opposed to say something like a European ETF, then you should not be surprised if it does not work out. Many of the funds have an annualised 10 year return of about 10%.

If you don't start at the same point as the literature, you should not be surprised if the outcome is not as expected.

Jim2007

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Why is investing in that kind of security so taboo to you, Ireland is obviously small but Dublin is a major location for multinationals, does that count for nothing?

It does not mater if it is Dublin, Lisbon, Zurich or where ever, they are still penny stocks and the probability of loosing your money is higher and not worth the kind of returns on offer. If you put money into such stocks, you really have no reason to complain if it does now work out.

Why would you go risking your money taking on higher risks than you need to?

Stock investing in Ireland has gotten a hard wrap, because people read the books, go out and investing in exactly what they are advised not to do and then get all up set at the advice rather than their own failure to apply the advice.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Add to that, in real terms only a tiny number of irish people have money riding on the success of these funds, it's not systematic risk circa 2008

[/QUOTE]

That does not help reduce your risks in anyway.

What is your objective in investing?

Mad_maxx

Jim2007 wrote: »

It does not mater if it is Dublin, Lisbon, Zurich or where ever, they are still penny stocks and the probability of loosing your money is higher and not worth the kind of returns on offer. If you put money into such stocks, you really have no reason to complain if it does now work out.

Why would you go risking your money taking on higher risks than you need to?

Stock investing in Ireland has gotten a hard wrap, because people read the books, go out and investing in exactly what they are advised not to do and then get all up set at the advice rather than their own failure to apply the advice.

That does not help reduce your risks in anyway.

What is your objective in investing?[/quote]

Well you did imply the country was heading down the same road again so I'm Just pointing out that the number of irish people invested in the fund in question is tiny