Is a "vote for FF a vote for green"?

dmakc

Given we live in rural Ireland, and given how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living, it's fair to say farmers are collectively wary of the green party. Was watching a FF candidate defend farming and rural Ireland in a very well prepared speech on Virgin, until Yates put it to her that "a vote for FF is a vote for green party" given the likely coalition rumours.

She then completely lost her rhythm and went into a "rural Ireland will have to play it's part" speech (not confirming/denying but for me she said enough).

Odds have FF very likely to beat FG to lead the government, but if they're gonna drag in the wolves and carpooling crowd with them is rural Ireland ruined? I know many farmers who are pro FF and anti green party - shouldn't this be taken into consideration before we promote them?

the-island-man

I know your post is more about the green party but it should be more about people willing to vote for FF in the first place!

I'm no FG evangelist but the fact a party who caused the worst debt crisis Ireland hopefully is ever likely to endure is being touted as the leaders of the next government reflects very poorly on our people.

150 billion + added to the national debt and the complete obliteration of the 50 billion that was in the national pension reserve fund. It in essence means it doesn't matter who we vote into power over the next few decades because whoever gets in there has sweet f*** all money available to do anything.

Mooooo

Tbh I think it'll be a case of FF/ FG and either of green party or Sinn Fein. I'd be of a centre disposition so wouldn't be a fan of hard left or hard right but tbh from a farming point of view the greens are too extreme and and agriculture is too easy of a scapegoat with them which leads me to the opinion that Sinn Fein would nearly be the better minority party in that regard but perhaps not in any other. I don't think Sinn Fein are quiet there with the personnel and the break from the past yet tho. Pearse Doherty did well with the insurance industry in calling out their ****e tho.

mickdw

the-island-man wrote: »

I know your post is more about the green party but it should be more about people willing to vote for FF in the first place!

I'm no FG evangelist but the fact a party who caused the worst debt crisis Ireland hopefully is ever likely to endure is being touted as the leaders of the next government reflects very poorly on our people.

150 billion + added to the national debt and the complete obliteration of the 50 billion that was in the national pension reserve fund. It in essence means it doesn't matter who we vote into power over the next few decades because whoever gets in there has sweet f*** all money available to do anything.

And did it matter who was in government when the world collapsed? Surely FG who argued on every budget day that FF were not giving enough money away wouldn't have saved the world in they had been in power.
Its a bit rich to claim that any government that gets in can do little due to finances while at the same time claiming that FF did all the damage when realistically we had a worldwide collapse that has a far more serious effect on finances.
Of course FG were doing to save us paying all this debt (Not one red cent)except of course when they got in and started playing with the big boys, they soon found out, that wasn't going to work.

FF might end up with the greens but I wouldn't worry. They will get some further carbon taxes in but FF will not agree to anything that might hurt FF.

Imreoir2

dmakc wrote: »

Given we live in rural Ireland, and given how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living, it's fair to say farmers are collectively wary of the green party. Was watching a FF candidate defend farming and rural Ireland in a very well prepared speech on Virgin, until Yates put it to her that "a vote for FF is a vote for green party" given the likely coalition rumours.

She then completely lost her rhythm and went into a "rural Ireland will have to play it's part" speech (not confirming/denying but for me she said enough).

Odds have FF very likely to beat FG to lead the government, but if they're gonna drag in the wolves and carpooling crowd with them is rural Ireland ruined? I know many farmers who are pro FF and anti green party - shouldn't this be taken into consideration before we promote them?

FG led farmers up the garden path. The crisis that caused the beef protests happened on their watch, it had nothing to do with the Green party.

As a rural voter, I will be voting Green.

the-island-man

mickdw wrote: »

And did it matter who was in government when the world collapsed? Surely FG who argued on every budget day that FF were not giving enough money away wouldn't have saved the world in they had been in power.
Its a bit rich to claim that any government that gets in can do little due to finances while at the same time claiming that FF did all the damage when realistically we had a worldwide collapse that has a far more serious effect on finances.
Of course FG were doing to save us paying all this debt (Not one red cent)except of course when they got in and started playing with the big boys, they soon found out, that wasn't going to work.

If someone gets killed due to dangerous driving who goes to court? The driver or the passenger?

In all honestly I'm very confused who to vote for in this election except for the fact it won't be FF and it never will be as long as I live.

mickdw

the-island-man wrote: »

If someone gets killed due to dangerous driving who goes to court? The driver or the passenger?

The mechanic who let the car out with a lethal fault which the driver wasn't aware of and drove on as normal.

There is nobody else to vote for if you want a change of government. Its a FF vote or more Leo.

_Brian

the-island-man wrote: »

I know your post is more about the green party but it should be more about people willing to vote for FF in the first place!

I'm no FG evangelist but the fact a party who caused the worst debt crisis Ireland hopefully is ever likely to endure is being touted as the leaders of the next government reflects very poorly on our people.

150 billion + added to the national debt and the complete obliteration of the 50 billion that was in the national pension reserve fund. It in essence means it doesn't matter who we vote into power over the next few decades because whoever gets in there has sweet f*** all money available to do anything.

Enda Kenny constantly abused FF in the Dail during the boom that they weren’t spending enough, were too tight on regulation amd spending, that their budgets were too conservative.

The only reason FG didn’t preside ice the financial collapse is that they had sent been in government. And one who believes different is a fool. Have they managed the real problems any better than FF ?? Look at the basket case that is health ?? Housing ??

I would always view FG and FF as pups from the same litter, except rural Ireland always seemed to fair worse under a FG government, and that seems to have happened again.

SF financial policies are worrying, it’s not that long since they were talking of land tax as a wealth tax, that’s something to remember.

Greens are basically another urban centric party who will murder farming and rural Ireland if in power.

FG have presided over a bad period for rural Ireland, I’m not sure if FF would have been better, but definitely never worse and locally they FF candidates are far more in tune with rural affairs.

FF have had a series of bad leaders, the current being weak and tainted as the old crew.

Maybe it’s the same the world over, but for me it’s a case of voting for the best candidate in your area rather than party aligned voting. I’m not going to vote for a weak candidate to represent me just to spite any party or support a party overall.

Either FF or FG will make up government in Ireland in the next government and subsequent governments in Ireland for a long Long time to come.

salmocab

The greens are almost certain to be part of the next government regardless of whether it’s FG or FF that are the biggest party. The numbers mean that they will be needed along with Lab

Peregrinus

dmakc wrote: »

Given we live in rural Ireland, and given how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living, it's fair to say farmers are collectively wary of the green party. Was watching a FF candidate defend farming and rural Ireland in a very well prepared speech on Virgin, until Yates put it to her that "a vote for FF is a vote for green party" given the likely coalition rumours.

She then completely lost her rhythm and went into a "rural Ireland will have to play it's part" speech (not confirming/denying but for me she said enough).

Odds have FF very likely to beat FG to lead the government, but if they're gonna drag in the wolves and carpooling crowd with them is rural Ireland ruined? I know many farmers who are pro FF and anti green party - shouldn't this be taken into consideration before we promote them?

Early days, but the polls are suggesting a significant recovery in the Green vote, with a good prospect of a significant rise in the number of seats they hold.

Polls are also suggesting that neither FF nor FG have any real prospect of winning a majority of seats. Therefore, either would have to do a deal with other parties. Both have ruled out a deal with SF; Greens are very likely to be the next largest party and, therefore, highly likely that the next government will be dependent on an agreement which includes the Greens, regardless of whether it's FF-led or FG-led.

If your concern about this is based on "how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living", your best strategy may in fact be to become involved with Green politics, and to encourage others to do so, so as to introduce a rural perspective and influence into the movement's policies and positions. But you've probably left it a bit late to have any impact on the timescale of this general election.

K.G.

I dont think theres any difference between them all and they ll soak up the s##t until they get reelected and then it back to the way things are.fg gg lab sf sd and independents all the same and yer codding yourself if you think they are different.i always vote according to candidate and not party.

kevthegaff

I know Jackie Cahill milks 100 cows in tipp, is there many other farmers on the electorate

_Brian

Peregrinus wrote: »

Early days, but the polls are suggesting a significant recovery in the Green vote, with a good prospect of a significant rise in the number of seats they hold.

Polls are also suggesting that neither FF nor FG have any real prospect of winning a majority of seats. Therefore, either would have to do a deal with other parties. Both have ruled out a deal with SF; Greens are very likely to be the next largest party and, therefore, highly likely that the next government will be dependent on an agreement which includes the Greens, regardless of whether it's FF-led or FG-led.

If your concern about this is based on "how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living", your best strategy may in fact be to become involved with Green politics, and to encourage others to do so, so as to introduce a rural perspective and influence into the movement's policies and positions. But you've probably left it a bit late to have any impact on the timescale of this general election.

O doubt the greens will get some bounce in this run, but I wouldn’t be joining a party and getting involved because it has a bad leader, that’s the worst reason to join.

Peregrinus

_Brian wrote: »

O doubt the greens will get some bounce in this run, but I wouldn’t be joining a party and getting involved because it has a bad leader, that’s the worst reason to join.

This is only the case if you think the most important feature of any party is its leader, which I don't think is true of any party, and certainly isn't true of a party whose leader, realistically, is not a candidate for Taoiseach.

But in fact the OP's concerns about the Greens are not the party's leader, but its policies, which he thinks are not good for rural Ireland. In which case it's rational to seek to influence the party's policies, and doing so does not require changing the party leadership - particularly not in Green parties, typically, since participatory democracy is one of the core principles of the Green movement, and Green parties tend to have wide (and, it has to be admitted, often tedious) consultative and deliberative processes to ensure that policy is formed collectively, not handed down by the leadership.

Gven that Green politics seems set to become more influential in coming years (and not just in Ireland), if you think that current Green policies are not sufficiently sensitive to the concerns and interests of your particular community, that's an excellent reason to become involved in Green politics, surely?

dmakc

dmakc wrote: »

given how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living,

Surely the issue is that rural living is out of touch with the modern world and still insisting that a way of life that is incompatible with a meaningful future for Ireland (or humanity in general) is "valid" just because they've refused to change or adapt?

It's like arguing that mainstream politics and policies were out of touch with the luddites in the 19th century, you have it a bit backwards.

If you want a government that's more likely to come up with realistic, feasible and funded initiatives to guide rural ireland to a sustainable future - you're not going to find it with parties that will tell you everything is alright right up until they pull the plug out from under you last minute.

By the sounds of your post, you're living a lie and want a political party who will tell you the lie is actually the truth and make you feel safe about it. Good luck to ya but I hope you're a tiny minority or the country really is going to be screwed for another dail term.

_Brian

Peregrinus wrote: »

This is only the case if you think the most important feature of any party is its leader, which I don't think is true of any party, and certainly isn't true of a party whose leader, realistically, is not a candidate for Taoiseach.

But in fact the OP's concerns about the Greens are not the party's leader, but its policies, which he thinks are not good for rural Ireland. In which case it's rational to seek to influence the party's policies, and doing so does not require changing the party leadership - particularly not in Green parties, typically, since participatory democracy is one of the core principles of the Green movement, and Green parties tend to have wide (and, it has to be admitted, often tedious) consultative and deliberative processes to ensure that policy is formed collectively, not handed down by the leadership.

Gven that Green politics seems set to become more influential in coming years (and not just in Ireland), if you think that current Green policies are not sufficiently sensitive to the concerns and interests of your particular community, that's an excellent reason to become involved in Green politics, surely?

The leader forms the majority of party policy, soundings from Eamon Ryan are very at odds with rural Ireland.
If your saying he has little sway within the party then it’s an even more disfunctional party than it seems on the surface.

2020Vision

salmocab wrote: »

The greens are almost certain to be part of the next government regardless of whether it’s FG or FF that are the biggest party. The numbers mean that they will be needed along with Lab

Only if they can win enough seats to matter. And some of their more fanatic candidates could well damage that objective.

For example: "Green Party European elections star Saoirse McHugh has warned that both she and the ‘Green wave’ could “leave” the party if leaders join a coalition with Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil after the next general election.

Ms McHugh told the Irish Examiner last night that her view remains unchanged despite the majority of party members at the Greens’ annual conference refusing to rule out such a coalition."

Mad_maxx

The greens are quite likely to be part of a coalition regardless of whether FG or FF is the largest party, FF won't prop up FG for another term

FG should have chosen Coveney, , only the media likes Varadkar, i despise Michael Martin myself

2020Vision

_Brian wrote: »

The leader forms the majority of party policy, soundings from Eamon Ryan are very at odds with rural Ireland.
If your saying he has little sway within the party then it’s an even more disfunctional party than it seems on the surface.

I have little doubt that Eamon Ryan would willingly stand down as leader if he felt that his leadership was affecting the Party's growth. Eamon has many flaws, but ego isn't one of them

_Brian

2020Vision wrote: »

I have little doubt that Eamon Ryan would willingly stand down as leader if he felt that his leadership was affecting the Party's growth. Eamon has many flaws, but ego isn't one of them

The greens and other parties have demonstrated that power trumps all else. The greens last stint in government proved that by propping up a failing government, selling out their party just to remain in power. They decimated the party - just to hold onto some power. They were badly punished at subsequent elections for this.

The greens are like SF, a professional opposition party, essential to have as it keeps the main parties in check, but never who you want leading your country.

The greens are seeing more support because of worldwide events rather than anything progressive the greens have done or talked about. Do you think Eamon Ryan’s ramblings on reintroducing wolves has swung support, no it hasn’t. “A rising tide floats all boats” they are increasing on a worldwide shift, danger is they will be like a deer in the headlights if in government because they really haven’t changed since their last time round.

2020Vision

_Brian wrote: »

The greens and other parties have demonstrated that power trumps all else. The greens last stint in government proved that by propping up a failing government, selling out their party just to remain in power. They decimated the party - just to hold onto some power. They were badly punished at subsequent elections for this.

The greens are like SF, a professional opposition party, essential to have as it keeps the main parties in check, but never who you want leading your country.

The greens are seeing more support because of worldwide events rather than anything progressive the greens have done or talked about. Do you think Eamon Ryan’s ramblings on reintroducing wolves has swung support, no it hasn’t. “A rising tide floats all boats” they are increasing on a worldwide shift, danger is they will be like a deer in the headlights if in government because they really haven’t changed since their last time round.

I wasn't talking about the Green Party I was talking about Eamon Ryan, who is one of the least egotistical politicians in Irish politics. I don't support his policies or vote for his party, but I regard him as one of the decentest people that I have ever met and am honoured to be a friend of his.

Mooooo

2020Vision wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the Green Party I was talking about Eamon Ryan, who is one of the least egotistical politicians in Irish politics. I don't support his policies or vote for his party, but I regard him as one of the decentest people that I have ever met and am honoured to be a friend of his.

I don't think anyone suggests eamonn Ryan is a bad person, no more than anyone else may be in any party. That's why a lot here have said they'd vote for a person as opposed to a party.
Green party is having a rise from the global talk in regard to it. My issue is the hypocrisy of a lot of the environmental issues/ solutions raised and we are an easy target

Say my name

If either FG or FF declared they'd go with Sinn Fein if it meant keeping out the Greens. I'd vote for either and then possibly SF.
But at the moment it's a certainty FG and FF would bring them into government with them.

The fools are missing a trick by not manning up and saying that they're open to the possibility. Instead now I'll think I'll give both FF and FG a miss because of that.

If the unionist's in the north can form a government with SF with all that's happened up there. Our cowardly crowd down here should man up and see what can be done.

yosemitesam1

Anyone else not going to vote? They're all a shower of clowns, I think the only thing worth voting for is against reunification with the North if it ever comes up

Mooooo

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Anyone else not going to vote? They're all a shower of clowns, I think the only thing worth voting for is against reunification with the North if it ever comes up

Spoil it instead of not voting, at least it shows annoyance as opposed to not being bothered
On your second point it won't be so clear cut if it ever comes up

2020Vision

Mooooo wrote: »

Spoil it instead of not voting, at least it shows annoyance as opposed to not being bothered

Agreed. Ideally by giving every candidate the lowest preference available on the ballot paper!

Mooooo wrote: »

On your second point it won't be so clear cut if it ever comes up

My concern would be that it could well be a simple YES/NO ballot which would mean that many people might vote YES without really thinking about the many complexities involved.

toleratethis

It'll depend on the numbers who invites who into what bed. I've seen fantasy GP predictions of 18 seats. FF to get an overall majority is as likely to happen. I do think FF will lead the next Government, I'm not of any party but looking back and despite the crash I have always done better when they were in. I've always voted, but this election I'm stumped. From this point in time it looks likely I'll be voting to keep candidates out rather than elect anyone in particular. It was once suggested to me we should have a "None of the above" on the ballot, that might suit me for GE20.

_Brian

Spoke with a chap earlier and he reckoned the greens were sure for junior partner in government.
His take was they will play for two positions round the table.

Tainiste of course but more Important to them will be the Ag portfolio. It’s a chilling thought.

dmakc

_Brian wrote: »

Spoke with a chap earlier and he reckoned the greens were sure for junior partner in government.
His take was they will play for two positions round the table.

Tainiste of course but more Important to them will be the Ag portfolio. It’s a chilling thought.

Why are a city party focused on governing ag? You talking minister position?

Imreoir2

Peregrinus wrote: »

If your concern about this is based on "how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living", your best strategy may in fact be to become involved with Green politics, and to encourage others to do so, so as to introduce a rural perspective and influence into the movement's policies and positions. But you've probably left it a bit late to have any impact on the timescale of this general election.

This is very true, Green Party policies are developed by their membership.
Definatly way too late to have an impact on policy before the election though.

CIARAN_BOYLE

dmakc wrote: »

Why are a city party focused on governing ag? You talking minister position?

Probably because that way they can advance their "green agenda" without pissing off their voters.

They've been hard line anti public transport the last few years in dublin so they cant push public transport honestly and theres not a lot more in the green agenda for them to work on.

_Brian

dmakc wrote: »

Why are a city party focused on governing ag? You talking minister position?

Control of land, forestry and reduction of animal farming for the half baked anti farming brigade.

Belongamick

Couldn't possibly vote Fianna Fail - the so called republican party who surrendered our national sovereignty to the IMF.
Greens will probably do well in the urban areas and commuter belts.
FG will probably shed seats and end up supporting a minority FF government.


I do think that at a certain administration level there is no nights sleep being lost at the slow demise of rural Ireland.
Is it easier for the Department of Agriculture to deal with one green cert educated farmer owning 150 hectares rather than 100 lads with 15 hectares each given that the only viable farming income is from dairying?
Is it easier to supply broadband, buses, schools etc to a town of 1000 people rather than supply same to 10 towns with 100 people?
Is it more expensive to have a general, one size fits all, hospital in a town of less than 5000 people or have a specialized unit in a population center 40 miles away?

I'm fairly sure through planning laws, inspections and red tape, people are living trough the slow decline of rural Ireland sanctioned at an official level.

_Brian

Belongamick wrote: »

Couldn't possibly vote Fianna Fail - the so called republican party who surrendered our national sovereignty to the IMF.
Greens will probably do well in the urban areas and commuter belts.
FG will probably shed seats and end up supporting a minority FF government.


I do think that at a certain administration level there is no nights sleep being lost at the slow demise of rural Ireland.
Is it easier for the Department of Agriculture to deal with one green cert educated farmer owning 150 hectares rather than 100 lads with 15 hectares each given that the only viable farming income is from dairying?
Is it easier to supply broadband, buses, schools etc to a town of 1000 people rather than supply same to 10 towns with 100 people?
Is it more expensive to have a general, one size fits all, hospital in a town of less than 5000 people or have a specialized unit in a population center 40 miles away?

I'm fairly sure through planning laws, inspections and red tape, people are living trough the slow decline of rural Ireland sanctioned at an official level.

There isn’t a party in the country that wouldn’t have had the imf in at the time.

Buford T. Justice XIX

I'm laughing at the idea of the Greens going into power again. This is the party telling us we all needed to switch over to diesel because of their better fuel efficiency and it needed to be done as a priority.

And now the same party is telling us that diesel cars are huge polluters and need to be phased out as a priority and we need to all change over to electric cars asap. Well, some 70% of our electricity is coming from non renewable sources so all that's happening is they're changing the location of emissions from urban Ireland to rural Ireland.

That there is my main issue with the GP, they're as fickle as a plastic bag in the wind. They're going to chase the next big thing without examining the totality of outcomes for what they're promoting. Facts and science take a back seat, if they're given a seat at all, and reading some of their pie-in-the-sky pronouncements on Agriculture and rural Ireland, I wouldn't be encouraged to see them getting a seat at any Government Department that has anything at all to do with anything anywhere outside the M50.

Donegalforever

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The greens are quite likely to be part of a coalition regardless of whether FG or FF is the largest party, FF won't prop up FG for another term

FG should have chosen Coveney, , only the media likes Varadkar, i despise Michael Martin myself

I agree FG selected the wrong person for Leader/Taoiseach.
One Journalist regularly refers to Varadkar as "the Posh Boy".....that is apparent.
The "Posh Boy" promoted his, (rather useless), cronies to Ministerial positions.
These Ministers have shown that they incapable of carrying out their duties as they should.
As for Mickey Martin, his backside must be raw from sitting on the fence.

Imreoir2

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm laughing at the idea of the Greens going into power again. This is the party telling us we all needed to switch over to diesel because of their better fuel efficiency and it needed to be done as a priority.

And now the same party is telling us that diesel cars are huge polluters and need to be phased out as a priority and we need to all change over to electric cars asap. Well, some 70% of our electricity is coming from non renewable sources so all that's happening is they're changing the location of emissions from urban Ireland to rural Ireland.

That there is my main issue with the GP, they're as fickle as a plastic bag in the wind. They're going to chase the next big thing without examining the totality of outcomes for what they're promoting. Facts and science take a back seat, if they're given a seat at all, and reading some of their pie-in-the-sky pronouncements on Agriculture and rural Ireland, I wouldn't be encouraged to see them getting a seat at any Government Department that has anything at all to do with anything anywhere outside the M50.

Much better to have a party that will tell you the same thing on Wednesday as they said on Manday, regardless of what happens Tuesday.

Green party stance changed for a reason, it was not because corporate interests paid them off, nor was it cynical populaism, it was because a solid case was made that their previous policy was wrong and the new policy is better.

If you want a party in power that will continue making a mistake for the sake of consistency then go right ahead. The current shower have done wonders for rural Ireland, right?

yosemitesam1

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Much better to have a party that will tell you the same thing on Wednesday as they said on Manday, regardless of what happens Tuesday.

Green party stance changed for a reason, it was not because corporate interests paid them off, nor was it cynical populaism, it was because a solid case was made that their previous policy was wrong and the new policy is better.

If you want a party in power that will continue making a mistake for the sake of consistency then go right ahead. The current shower have done wonders for rural Ireland, right?

The issues with diesel engines were well known before they were in government

Donegalforever

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm laughing at the idea of the Greens going into power again. This is the party telling us we all needed to switch over to diesel because of their better fuel efficiency and it needed to be done as a priority.

And now the same party is telling us that diesel cars are huge polluters and need to be phased out as a priority and we need to all change over to electric cars asap. Well, some 70% of our electricity is coming from non renewable sources so all that's happening is they're changing the location of emissions from urban Ireland to rural Ireland.

That there is my main issue with the GP, they're as fickle as a plastic bag in the wind. They're going to chase the next big thing without examining the totality of outcomes for what they're promoting. Facts and science take a back seat, if they're given a seat at all, and reading some of their pie-in-the-sky pronouncements on Agriculture and rural Ireland, I wouldn't be encouraged to see them getting a seat at any Government Department that has anything at all to do with anything anywhere outside the M50.

The Greens belong to a different Planet.

Imreoir2

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The issues with diesel engines were well known before they were in government

So they should have changed policy sooner? Anoter poster is criticising them for changing policy at all.

Imreoir2

Donegalforever wrote: »

The Greens belong to a different Planet.

Who are the saviours of rural Ireland to be according to you?

dmakc

Imreoir2 wrote: »

The current shower have done wonders for rural Ireland, right?

No other party has made me feel "thank god they're not in power" with comments on social media like the Greens have. I genuinely do wonder if they sometimes believe what they're saying. I don't want to be attacked by a wolf while I'm forced to walk 15 miles through a dark Sitka forest to my nearest lidl thankyou.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Much better to have a party that will tell you the same thing on Wednesday as they said on Manday, regardless of what happens Tuesday.

Green party stance changed for a reason, it was not because corporate interests paid them off, nor was it cynical populaism, it was because a solid case was made that their previous policy was wrong and the new policy is better.

And what about the long term cost and climate implications for their erroneous diesel policy? Luckily for us, the cost will be relatively short term and diesels as family transport will have mostly moved off the stage in another 10 years. But you're claiming that it's OK to make a huge error, an error that was highlighted at the time, and we should move on?

And looking at some of the policies they were promoting a few weeks ago that have more in common with PR than actual facts and robust policies, you're welcome to keep them and their policies where they can do least harm and attract most support. Inside the M50.

What about the GP leader supporting the reintroduction of wolves into Ireland. What happens if they decide they're going to railroad this through just because they can and the deficiencies, like the complete lack of any food source for them, becomes apparent after about 6 weeks? Who's going to have to pick up the pieces? Well, not Eamon Ryan anyway, he'll be far removed from the devastation he'll have caused. He won't have to go out at night with a shotgun to check the cattle or sheep, he'll be curled up inside in his toasty warm bed dreaming up another fustercluck to saddle us with.:rolleyes:

It's not like the whole wolves debacle is an isolated issue, their entire policy is far removed from anybody and anything in rural Ireland.

If you want a party in power that will continue making a mistake for the sake of consistency then go right ahead. The current shower have done wonders for rural Ireland, right?

Rural Ireland will be having their say on their representatives in a few weeks time and will select those that will represent their interests the best from those being put forward. And in the likely situation that there will have to be another interparty government rather than a coalition, there'll be enough voices there to ensure the worst excesses of our urban elites will be mitigated.

yosemitesam1

Imreoir2 wrote: »

So they should have changed policy sooner? Anoter poster is criticising them for changing policy at all.

They introduced the incentives for diesel engines long after it was known that that was not the thing to do. That is the issue.

Imreoir2

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

And what about the long term cost and climate implications for their erroneous diesel policy?

The Irish Green Party were not the only ones who got it wrong on diesel. When you make a mistake it is better to stop making it rather than to continue making it for the sake of consistency.

What about the GP leader supporting the reintroduction of wolves into Ireland.

It's not like the whole wolves debacle is an isolated issue, their entire policy is far removed from anybody and anything in rural Ireland.

The Green party does not have a policy to reintroduce Wolves to Ireland. They put forward a motion on forestry in the Dáil, guess how many times Wolves were mentioned in the motion? I'll give you a hint, it's zero.

Off the back of the motion Emaon Ryan was asked by a jurno if he supported reintroducing Wolves and he said yes, not based on a thought out official party policy, just his opinion because it has been done successfuly elsewhere. You might disagree with Emaon Ryan's opinion but that is all it was, not Green party policy. Maybe you should unbunch your knickers and stop being afraid that the Green party will force every farmer to adopt a pet wolf. :rolleyes:

I live in rural Ireland and the issue of climate change is not far removed from me.

Castlekeeper

Peregrinus wrote: »

Early days, but the polls are suggesting a significant recovery in the Green vote, with a good prospect of a significant rise in the number of seats they hold.

Polls are also suggesting that neither FF nor FG have any real prospect of winning a majority of seats. Therefore, either would have to do a deal with other parties. Both have ruled out a deal with SF; Greens are very likely to be the next largest party and, therefore, highly likely that the next government will be dependent on an agreement which includes the Greens, regardless of whether it's FF-led or FG-led.

If your concern about this is based on "how out of touch Eamon Ryan is with rural living", your best strategy may in fact be to become involved with Green politics, and to encourage others to do so, so as to introduce a rural perspective and influence into the movement's policies and positions. But you've probably left it a bit late to have any impact on the timescale of this general election.

Great analysis as always Peregrinus, In fact the Greens are the most open democratic party in Ireland by a long shot, all members firm the leader down algaveza equal opportunity to submit policy proposals and an equal vote in deciding on those same policies.

Castlekeeper

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm laughing at the idea of the Greens going into power again. This is the party telling us we all needed to switch over to diesel because of their better fuel efficiency and it needed to be done as a priority.

And now the same party is telling us that diesel cars are huge polluters and need to be phased out as a priority and we need to all change over to electric cars asap. Well, some 70% of our electricity is coming from non renewable sources so all that's happening is they're changing the location of emissions from urban Ireland to rural Ireland.

That there is my main issue with the GP, they're as fickle as a plastic bag in the wind. They're going to chase the next big thing without examining the totality of outcomes for what they're promoting. Facts and science take a back seat, if they're given a seat at all, and reading some of their pie-in-the-sky pronouncements on Agriculture and rural Ireland, I wouldn't be encouraged to see them getting a seat at any Government Department that has anything at all to do with anything anywhere outside the M50.

Buford, were you a Green voter prior to the emissions debacle?
It strikes me as eing a bit Irish when I hear people that lambast the Green party over the diesel motor tax reductions in that they more often than not come from people who couldn't care less about such matters on a practical level, and that those same people have benefitted well out of the policy over the last decade with low road tax and fuel costs on their diesel vehicles!

amacca

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Rural Ireland will be having their say on their representatives in a few weeks time and will select those that will represent their interests the best from those being put forward. And in the likely situation that there will have to be another interparty government rather than a coalition, there'll be enough voices there to ensure the worst excesses of our urban elites will be mitigated.

This is not meant to be a loaded question but who would represent those interests the best in longford-westmeath and laois-offaly

My problem has always been I don't trust or have much respect for any of the fckuers ...... FF, FG, LAB, SF, G and nutcase independents, they are all compromised imo....in some cases because of party affiliations and policies, in some cases because of interviews etc where they've come across as self serving gombeens, in some cases because they've been about as effective as underwater glue when presented with a legitimate concern, in some cases because I know the candidate personally and consider the candidate to be an uneducated ape with about as much social conscience as those wolves clown face ryan wouldnt mind reintroducing and is running simply to climb and in another case because I think the candidate is a nutcase (even if genuine and well meaning)

_Brian

amacca wrote: »

This is not meant to be a loaded question but who would represent those interests the best in longford-westmeath and laois-offaly

My problem has always been I don't trust or have much respect for any of the fckuers ...... FF, FG, LAB, SF, G and nutcase independents, they are all compromised imo....in some cases because of party affiliations and policies, in some cases because of interviews etc where they've come across as self serving gombeens, in some cases because they've been about as effective as underwater glue when presented with a legitimate concern, in some cases because I know the candidate personally and consider the candidate to be an uneducated ape with about as much social conscience as those wolves clown face ryan wouldnt mind reintroducing and is running simply to climb and in another case because I think the candidate is a nutcase (even if genuine and well meaning)

All any of us can do is choose the best candidate in our area. Doesn’t mean they are great politicians but at least get the best of a bad lot.

If you don’t vote your just letting other people choose for you.

Birdnuts

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I'm laughing at the idea of the Greens going into power again. This is the party telling us we all needed to switch over to diesel because of their better fuel efficiency and it needed to be done as a priority.

And now the same party is telling us that diesel cars are huge polluters and need to be phased out as a priority and we need to all change over to electric cars asap. Well, some 70% of our electricity is coming from non renewable sources so all that's happening is they're changing the location of emissions from urban Ireland to rural Ireland.

That there is my main issue with the GP, they're as fickle as a plastic bag in the wind. They're going to chase the next big thing without examining the totality of outcomes for what they're promoting. Facts and science take a back seat, if they're given a seat at all, and reading some of their pie-in-the-sky pronouncements on Agriculture and rural Ireland, I wouldn't be encouraged to see them getting a seat at any Government Department that has anything at all to do with anything anywhere outside the M50.

Ireland badly needs an proper "Green" party - the problem with Eamon Ryans version is that it goes out of its way to rub rural Ireland up the wrong way for no good reason. I voted Green 20 years ago when they had decent types like Trevor Sargent who sought to bring farmers on the road to sustainability in a positive and co-operative way. Sadly the current party has been hi jacked by smug D4 types who think the world will be saved by wind mills and electric cars while putting the boot into livestock farming - showing they;ve learn't nothing from the diesel debacle given that the batteries needed depend on a rapidly shrinking supply of rare-earth metals whose mining causes massive environmental destruction in the likes of the Congo and China. Similar issues with many biofuels like Palm oil and then theres the destruction of major rivers around the world by Hydro dams etc. TBH I'm at a loss at who to vote for since the major party's policies on the environment, farming etc. seem to be either hived off from the current Green Party or business as usual in terms of the failing old CAP model:(

amacca

_Brian wrote: »

All any of us can do is choose the best candidate in our area. Doesn’t mean they are great politicians but at least get the best of a bad lot.

If you don’t vote your just letting other people choose for you.

Point taken but which candidate do people think might actually best represent rural irelands interests best was what I was trying to find out...at the moment apart from a couple of hell no Id rather piss myself in public than vote for him/her its like throwing a dart at a dartboard for me...even if its not a vote for a candidate and tactical vote what is best?

or if its a person, which of them is the best of a bad lot