Upgrading a 2007 BMW 523i E61 estate - what would you buy next?

MiketheMechanic

I have a 2007 BMW 523i E61 estate - LCI manual with good SE spec for the past 3 years.
It has covered 200k kms. I've really enjoyed driving it, but hope to move up a few years during 2020.

I only cover around 10-12k kms per year.
Daily commute is around 20 km round trip - mixture of 10k motorway, 10k surface streets.
I've only over had petrol cars.

My budget is up to €13k.

What I like about the 523i:
Comfort - cabin is a nice place to sit.
Refined powerful straight 6 cylinder petrol engine.
Loads of space for 2 small kids and their cargo in the boot day-to-day and for weekends away.
Handling - not as sharp as an M Sport BMW or the previous model E39 - but balanced and predictable RWD.
Leather interior - looks great and easy to clean for kids.
Relatively simple petrol engine and box - no timing chain, DPF, EGR or turbo issues to worry about.
Was cheap to buy - nobody wants big tax petrols anymore - practically depreciation-proof at this stage.
Spec - plenty of electrical toys and drivers aids as standard on the 5 series.


What I don't like about the 523i
Manual - would prefer an auto box - but must be reliable. A bit of stop-start traffic on my commute.
Fuel Consumption - I probably get 35 MPG on long journeys, but closer to 29 MPG around suburbia
Annual Mileage is low - so not really a big deal.
Road tax - but it what makes these cars so cheap to buy in the first place - paid quarterly - again not a big deal.

The contenders so far:

1. BMW F11 estate - high spec SE or M Sport - what year were the timing chain issues resolved on the N47 520d?
I don't want a diesel, but there are very few (if any) petrols for sale post 2008.
Would I be better off in a 525d or 530d? Would a shortish daily commute like mine kill them?

2. A6 Avant - is there a 2.0 TFSi petrol availbale? Are the petrols reliable? DSG box or Multitronic boxes - again, are they reliable?
Don't know alot about them. Does the SLine still suffer from hard suspension? I think there was a new model in 2011.
What is the best model/spec to go for in my budget?

3. E-Class estate - Probably looking at a E220 or E250 estate. What is the best model to go for with my budget? Might be a bit "barge-ey"

4. Skoda Superb Combi DSG. What is the best Engine and box combo to go for? VRS spec? Is the DSG reliable?
Would I notice a big step down in terms of handling and refinement?

Outside contenders:

5. Volvo XC60 D4 - I like the look of these - especially in R-Design spec.
Would I notice a big step down in terms of handling coming from the BMW to an SUV?

6. Volvo V60 - possibly a bit small - again would handling and refinement be a big step down. Wife had a S40 LUX petrol before - loved it.

7. Skoda Octavia Combi - maybe a VRS petrol DSG? - opinions?

8. Honda Civic estate (petrol) or Seat Leon estate (petrol) - possibly too small - and a step down in class and comfort?

I don't really need a diesel car - I'd be afriad that too many short journeys would kill it, clog DPF etc.
Are there some that are more resilient than others?

Any others that I should consider? Haven't really considered electric or hybrid - wouldn't be wild about a Nissan Leaf.
BMW 330e? outside budget.
I would consider importing from the UK for better value or spec.


Thanks in advance folks. Always great advice and food for thought on this forum.


MtM

Heres Johnny

Early 330e models from 2016 not far outside your budget but you won't get an msport or many extras for the lower end of what they are costing from UK nowadays. Wait a little longer and the price will come to meet you. You'll find it very hard to get a petrol 5 series or a6 from the era you're looking

bazz26

330e is saloon only, they never made a first generation 330e in Touring.

Shanetyper

I personally have an f10 520d and they are lovely to drive. The 8 speed gearbox is as smooth as can be. I have driven a 330d and the engine is beautiful in it. The car still manages over 30mpg on shirt trips with some spirited driving. I wish i had of held out for a 530d.
I also had an e60 before that too and the one thing I miss from the e60 is the seats.

MiketheMechanic

bazz26 wrote: »

330e is saloon only, they never made a first generation 330e in Touring.

Yep, I figured the 330e was only available as a saloon. Might have to add a roof rack for the odd job where the boot is too small for bulky objects. Or hire a van :-)

Anyone know what the real world consumption of a 330e is like?
Are they all automatics?

GustavoFring

They're all auto but the boot is pretty small with the battery pack in there. I have a normal F30 330d and the boot in that isn't of much use either. I wouldn't bother with a diesel at your mileage.

There's was 1.8tsi MK2 Superbs available which might work, but they are very rare. Personally I think anything along the size of a Leon or Octavia would be a downgrade in terms of comfort and refinement.

Stallingrad

Think you would be horrified at the 520d coming from a straight 6 petrol. I'd stick with petrol, especially if you are doing low mileage.

WacoKid

You will find a F11 528i in the UK. 2.0 petrol, 245bhp.

Stallingrad

WacoKid wrote: »

You will find a F11 528i in the UK. 2.0 petrol, 245bhp.

That would be a fine beast, might never find a buyer for it down the line though!

sphession

Think you'd find most newer cars aren't as simple or refined as a BMW 6.

I think something along the lines of a F31 320i/28i would be where I'd be looking, however early ones get mixed reviews regarding reliability, so one with a BMW warranty would be ideal. Most cars have stories though.

unfortunately there aren't much more options unless going diesel, but wouldn't make any sense for you circumstance or current market.

Heres Johnny

OP I had a 523i 2006 until mid 2018 and I moved it on in favour of a 2014 530d and then the missus went and bought herself a 2014 A6. Both automatics so you're probably going to follow in my footsteps going by your OP. The Audi and the BMW are neither better or worse than the other, obviously the 530d had more power than the 2 litre audi but I wasn't too bothered as I never had call to need it, the 2 litres in both cars is plenty in my opinion.

In the end, November 19, I got a great offer on the BMW getting back exactly what I'd paid for it and off it went, and we didn't really need 2 big cars anyway. So still have the Audi, OH has a petrol gold now.

If I was going out again tomorrow upgrading from an e60 or e61 I'd probably go for the Audi over the BMW and I would actually go Avant this time, even though mine is a saloon car. Just think styling wise it's nicer.

At your budget you're looking at 2012 or 2013 cars I'd say.
Can't really comment on your other choices not having owned them but I think these are your 2 preferred anyway

IrishZeus

Op, I’ve had a Superb Combi Style (171) and currently have an f11 520d M-Sport (141).

There’s a world of difference quality wise between both - the BMW is miles ahead of Skoda (regardless of the advertising saying they’re the same )

I’d more than happily recommend the BMW. Love the car - only regret is not holding out for the 530d.

The Skoda is a good car but ONLY in the 190bhp automatic with a minimum Style level trim. I very unfortunately bought the 1.6l econobox and it was terrible and that engine has since been removed from the Superb lineup.

€13k would get you into a 2012/2013 520d F11. I think the timing chain issue with the N47 engine was almost completely resolved by 2014. So even a mid/late 2013 should be safe. There is also an ongoing recall for the EGR, so just check that too if you’re looking.

MiketheMechanic

Thanks @Heres Johnny.

It's incredibly difficult to find a petrol car in this class post 2008, without going very new - like 2017 onwards - and budget doesn't allow for this.

I would hate to spend 13k and end up with a car that wasn't an upgrade - or at least comparable in terms of refinement etc.

My daily commute is probably 20 minutes in the morning, 10 mins of stop start traffic and 10 minutes of motorway.
Probably 15 mins of mostly motorway in the evening.
Would this kill a F11 530d or 520d in terms of clogging up DPF etc?
Or would it handle it ok?

MtM

Heres Johnny wrote: »

OP I had a 523i 2006 until mid 2018 and I moved it on in favour of a 2014 530d and then the missus went and bought herself a 2014 A6. Both automatics so you're probably going to follow in my footsteps going by your OP. The Audi and the BMW are neither better or worse than the other, obviously the 530d had more power than the 2 litre audi but I wasn't too bothered as I never had call to need it, the 2 litres in both cars is plenty in my opinion.

In the end, November 19, I got a great offer on the BMW getting back exactly what I'd paid for it and off it went, and we didn't really need 2 big cars anyway. So still have the Audi, OH has a petrol gold now.

If I was going out again tomorrow upgrading from an e60 or e61 I'd probably go for the Audi over the BMW and I would actually go Avant this time, even though mine is a saloon car. Just think styling wise it's nicer.

At your budget you're looking at 2012 or 2013 cars I'd say.
Can't really comment on your other choices not having owned them but I think these are your 2 preferred anyway

Heres Johnny

Neither car is really an upgrade over the e60 I had, sure its a little more modern inside and in the idrive or MMI system and how it looks (although an e60 or e61 in m sport looks remarkably fresh now) but the cars are no better, they arent more comfortable, they dont have more space, they are way ahead on fuel economy though but thats because I went petrol to diesel but I could have moved to a diesel e60 for small money and got the same fuel economy improvement. And tax is only a quarter of what it was. They arent even a leap forward in driving capability from turn of the millennium e39s that I had, they were great cars

That said, I don't regret moving on even though it cost me 18k to move up 8 years which actually doesnt sound that bad. My e60 was on a tow truck twice for battery and then for starter motor so it was time to move her on.......

If you can afford it do it, when the replacement models are down to 20k I will do the same again..............I reckon I will get a 182 A6 or 5 series for 20k in 2022

Just dont expect a huge leap forward to be honest (and this is from somebody that really likes my current car)

I still stand by the Audi A6 over BMW 5 series though.......but only just

Stallingrad

I swapped a diesel 141 F10 5 series for a 152 Skoda Superb petrol 1.4tsi 150bhp. Not as luxurious as the BMW but smoother, quieter, better riding and with more toys than the BMW. It's a pleasure to drive and feels really well built. You may get a low mileage one in the UK near to your budget.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201909202446763?onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=w37tz&year-to=2016&sort=relevance&model=SUPERB&radius=1500&price-to=12000&year-from=2015&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Petrol&make=SKODA&page=1

MiketheMechanic

Thanks @sphession.
Hadn't really thought of a F31 petrol.
I'll take a look here and in the UK and see how plentiful they are.
Are the petrol engines in F31s 4 or 6 cylinder I wonder?

Hard to know what to do. I like the idea of a F11 530d - but very hard to justify with my mileage.
More questions than answers at this stage.

MtM

sphession wrote: »

Think you'd find most newer cars aren't as simple or refined as a BMW 6.

I think something along the lines of a F31 320i/28i would be where I'd be looking, however early ones get mixed reviews regarding reliability, so one with a BMW warranty would be ideal. Most cars have stories though.

unfortunately there aren't much more options unless going diesel, but wouldn't make any sense for you circumstance or current market.

Wailin

OP I have a 2014 535d f10 and I certainly don't do the mileage to justify a diesel, 12-15k miles a year max. But I do long trips down the country 2 or 3 times a month and in over 2 years of ownership the car hasn't missed a beat. Once it's not all short city driving you should be fine.

I do look out for a nice petrol saloon every once in awhile but I know I'd miss the power and torque of the f10 if I moved it on. A nice G30 530i/540i with the spec I want could tempt me but very rare.

The 525d is a good compromise, I also had 2013 525d F11 and it was nice but not too refined and you'd notice big time coming from a 6cyl petrol.

MiketheMechanic

Budget-wise I probably need an in-between car to tide me over for a few years until a 530i or 530e becomes an option.

Based on the discussion on this thread, I'm tempted to look at a 530d.
The 6 cylinder cars seem to be much better specced - even in SE trim.
The mileage can be lower on them also - as they seem to be privately owned rather than company cars.

I saw this one. there's a deposit taken on it sadly, but it's gotten me interested.
https://www.donedeal.ie/adview/view/24012062
2010 530D F11 SE Touring Auto

A few questions.
Are the N57 engines generally reliable?
Are turbos robust?
The one linked has adaptive suspension & headlights etc.
Again, are they reliable? Expensive to fix if they go wrong I suspect?
Anything major to watch for on N57s?

Thanks, MtM

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Neither car is really an upgrade over the e60 I had, sure its a little more modern inside and in the idrive or MMI system and how it looks (although an e60 or e61 in m sport looks remarkably fresh now) but the cars are no better, they arent more comfortable, they dont have more space, they are way ahead on fuel economy though but thats because I went petrol to diesel but I could have moved to a diesel e60 for small money and got the same fuel economy improvement. And tax is only a quarter of what it was. They arent even a leap forward in driving capability from turn of the millennium e39s that I had, they were great cars

That said, I don't regret moving on even though it cost me 18k to move up 8 years which actually doesnt sound that bad. My e60 was on a tow truck twice for battery and then for starter motor so it was time to move her on.......

If you can afford it do it, when the replacement models are down to 20k I will do the same again..............I reckon I will get a 182 A6 or 5 series for 20k in 2022

Just dont expect a huge leap forward to be honest (and this is from somebody that really likes my current car)

I still stand by the Audi A6 over BMW 5 series though.......but only just

Wailin

The N57 also suffers from the timing chain issue. It's just not as prevalent as there are far less of them about as the N47.

A good service history with regular oil changes is very important with these cars.

Have a read of this on the N47/57

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/n57.html

IrishZeus

The adaptive suspension airbags were replaced in my F11 before I bought it. The compressor and one bag failed about 10 months/25k kilometres later.

I don’t think it’s an uncommon fault. It’s not a regular fault but also not unheard of, from what I know.

In fairness to BMW, they gave me goodwill towards 80% of the fix with a 2 year warranty on parts. (Original replacement carried out in an unbranded/unconnected garage)

Mine has the N47 engine which is just about to tick over 160k kilometres and has been faultless to date.

As mentioned before, timing chain and EGR are the things to check for.

MiketheMechanic

Hi all,

I'm still looking at a replacement for the E61.
Just throwing an idea out there - are there any Japanese imports that might tick the boxes?
Petrol, automatic, estate (leather, hybrids tend to pop up too)

I've seen things like a Toyota Fielder (Corolla estate), Prius Alpha, Sai Camry and various Honda variants.

My opinion of these in the past would be that they are very practical cars, but quite dull and a bit underpowered.

But maybe there are a few I've missed that would suit?
Suggestions?

Also, I've been reading the Bangernomics Forum and I've gotten a hankering for a late model (2011) Saab 9-3 Aero estate with the TTid engine - am I crazy?

MtM

walshtipp

MiketheMechanic wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm still looking at a replacement for the E61.
Just throwing an idea out there - are there any Japanese imports that might tick the boxes?
Petrol, automatic, estate (leather, hybrids tend to pop up too)

I've seen things like a Toyota Fielder (Corolla estate), Priuses and various Honda variants.

My opinion of these in the past would be that they are very practical cars, but quite dull and a bit underpowered.

But maybe there are a few I've missed that would suit?
Suggestions?

Also, I've been reading the Bangernomics Forum and I've gotten a hankering for a late model (2011) Saab 9-3 Aero estate with the TTid engine - am I crazy?

MtM

I'm a big fan of the Toyota Crown (see link)
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-crown-hybrid-automatic/22584037

Not many of them out there but they are a really nice comfortable car. 2.5 Hybrid puts out 178BHP so not too bad.

MiketheMechanic

walshtipp wrote: »

I'm a big fan of the Toyota Crown (see link)
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-crown-hybrid-automatic/22584037

Not many of them out there but they are a really nice comfortable car. 2.5 Hybrid puts out 178BHP so not too bad.

The Crown Athlete looks quite nice, sporty even - probably a bit outside of my budget though.

MtM

Paul Kiernan

You're overcomplicating things! Why look at 530 or 535s? Go back to your first contender in the opening post. Find out when the 520d timing belt problem was resolved and when the NOx was reduced to reasonable levels and get an F11 520d. They're cheap as chips and easy to sell on. Sure it won't be as refined as the silky six petrol but it's still one of the best engines around. The only thing that goes wrong is the suspension airbags and you can fix that yourself for next to nothing.