Vegan Death Cult

MadYaker

MrAbyss wrote: »

I don't find it bizarre at all. Disturbing more like.

The threads you start are more disturbing.

gozunda

Assetbacked wrote: »

This is shifting your position and adding in several different points. Your original position on soy beans was that it was only the byproduct or residue of soybean oil extraction that was being used to feed animals. My point is that soybean meal can be used to feed humans and the animals can and should be taken out of the equation. You say you don't agree with the Amazon being destroyed for food production but the point being made to you is that this is directly the result of the demand for meat. With populations in developing countries increasing at uncontrollable rates, demands for meat will continue to rise which will lead to more environmental destruction to produce the animals from which the meat is obtained. All of this can be avoided by moving away from meat consumption.

Not so. Yes I had to go through yet another lengthy process of explaining that soy beans from the Amazon (or most anywhere) are not 'grown' for cattle feed. But that yes that the by-products are variously used for that purpose.

But more importantly that soy grown in the Amazon is directly the result of the demand for soy OIL.

You suggested soy should only be fed to humans. Certainly it can but there seems to be little or no demand from the big food producers.

What I did disagree with was that shouldn't happen where any soy products come from soy grown the Amazon.

All agriculture whether arable, horticulture and not just animal results in significant environmental impacts. Specifically Intensive ploughing and cultivation results in soil erosion (remember the dust bowl? ) - the use of fertliser and pesticides to grow crops are all hugely damaging to the environment. Irrigation involves huge wastage of water and consequent impacts on wildlife and habitats. And so on it goes.

Over the past century - improvements in agricultural efficiency means that despite huge increases in population-

For the world as a whole, per capita food availability has risen from about 2220 kcal/person/day in the early 1960s to 2790 kcal/person/day in 2006-08, while developing countries even recorded a leap from 1850 kcal/person/day to over 2640 kcal/person/day” (FAO, p. 174). This is enough to feed everyone.

Even the recent UN report on food and climate did not suggest that we need to get rid of animal agriculture. This was the their recommendation

“Balanced diets featuring plant-based foods, such as coarse grains, legumes, fruits and vegetables, and animal-sourced food produced sustainably in low greenhouse gas emission systems, present major opportunities for adaptation to and limiting climate change,”

A normal balanced diet inclusive of animal sourced food in other words. So the expert opinion is that there is no case that we should 'take animals out of the equation"

Tbh the main ones I see pushing that idea is aggressive plant food industry interests and some of those whose beliefs mean they dont eat meat.

ILoveYourVibes

MrAbyss wrote: »

This video is one of the most incredible things I have watched. Vegans literally dying in front of the camera as they tell us how healthy they are.

https://youtu.be/97Wry4ppywQ

You realize the more you fight them the bigger they get?

There are vegan magnums in every news shop now and soya milk in every centra.

Its over. You lost.

fryup

MrAbyss wrote: »

There has never been a vegan society on earth ever.

well now there is :cool:

wakka12

quokula wrote: »

It's not really anecdotal. Anecdotal is when you base something on personal experience which may not be representative. This is not based on personal experience, this is somebody with an agenda deliberately trawling online through who knows how many hours of footage to cherrypick some examples to fit their twisted worldview.

Not really, Cambridge defines anecdotal as 'information that is not based on facts or careful study'

RobertKK

Veganism is not natural as vegans needs to get Vitamin B12 supplements to replace how most people get their B12 which is from animal products.

A lot of people (whether vegan or not) will end up malnourished on a diet if they don't understand what their body needs.
But it is easier to get malnourished when one chooses to avoid what is nutrient dense food like meat, eggs, fish and dairy.

wakka12

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

What about the carbon footprint from shipping produce from all around the world and massive deforestation and removal of biodiversity to facilitate single crop plantations. Massive green deserts.
When a vegan is eating a nice avocado do they think of the involvement of cartels in Mexico in the plantations? The market became so lucrative that they rapidly got involved.

Vegans have to eat something too. What do you propose they eat then? Everyone has an impact by the food they consume. A vegan diet simply produces far fewer carbon emissions than a diet high in meat does. Thats all, nobody said vegan diet is totally carbon neutral, its just trying to minimise the impact, which it most certainly does. Not all vegans eat avocados as they are aware of the damage of importation and generally the most eco conscious group in our society, and the majority of avocados are consumed by people who also eat meat and animal products anyway so please stfu with this absolutely inane argument

wakka12

RobertKK wrote: »

Veganism is not natural as vegans needs to get Vitamin B12 supplements to replace how most people get their B12 which is from animal products.

A lot of people (whether vegan or not) will end up malnourished on a diet if they don't understand what their body needs.
But it is easier to get malnourished when one chooses to avoid what is nutrient dense food like meat, eggs, fish and dairy.

Um have you heard of supplements? There are many nutrient dense plant foods, legumes, greens, nuts, seeds.
We do many unnatural things daily as part of normal and healthy lifestyles.Talking on a phone is unnatural, does it mean its not healthy? It's not a valid argument.

RobertKK

Veganism is also leading to higher demands for dairy milk substitutes with things like almond milk. Almond farming is killing tens of billions of bees. Last year an estimated 50 billion bees died.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

RobertKK

wakka12 wrote: »

Um have you heard of supplements? There are many nutrient dense plant foods, legumes, greens, nuts, seeds.
We do many unnatural things daily as part of normal and healthy lifestyles. It's not a valid argument.

Yeah and what did vegans do before supplements?
So being vegan was never the natural position.
Taking pills or needing food to be enriched is natural food?

Lyan

I tend to agree that many vegans are idiotic whackjobs, but I cannot see a way around the ethicial arguments for veganism. I probably ought to become one myself, but for the life of me I could never stop eating meat.

wakka12

RobertKK wrote: »

Veganism is also leading to higher demands for dairy milk substitutes with things like almond milk. Almond farming is killing tens of billions of bees. Last year an estimated 50 billion bees died.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

Right, so 4.1% milk sales in the US are almond milk.
https://fortune.com/2015/05/27/almond-milk-sales-soaring-health/
And only 0.5% the population identify as vegan.
https://veganbits.com/vegan-demographics/

So clearly more non vegans are contributing towards this damage than vegans.

wakka12

RobertKK wrote: »

Yeah and what did vegans do before supplements?
So being vegan was never the natural position.
Taking pills or needing food to be enriched is natural food?

No, its not natural. But if you have any stronger argument in favour of it other than it being unnatural then I'd like to hear. Most studies show the vegans live the same or longer than the general population. If a diet being 'unnatural' was an inherently bad thing then they would have worse health than the general population, not better.

ILoveYourVibes

RobertKK wrote: »

Veganism is also leading to higher demands for dairy milk substitutes with things like almond milk. Almond farming is killing tens of billions of bees. Last year an estimated 50 billion bees died.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/07/honeybees-deaths-almonds-hives-aoe

Climate change is killing bees.

Bees are dying for other reason mostly climate change its nothing to do with almond milk. Climate change is killing bees. So are pesticides.


If almond crops use pesticides then they would pose a threat to bees ..BUT EVERY CROP USES PESTICIDES and they all pose a threat to bees.

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Not so. Yes I had to go through yet another lengthy process of explaining that soy beans from the Amazon are not 'grown' for cattle feed. But that yes that the by-products are variously used for that purpose.

But more importantly that soy grown in the Amazon is directly the result of the demand for soy OIL.

You suggested soy meal should only be fed to humans. Certainly it can but there seems to be little or no demand from the big food producers.

What I did disagree with was that shouldn't happen where that soy meal comes from soy grown the Amazon.

All agriculture whether arable, horticulture and not just animal results in significant environmental impacts. Specifically Intensive ploughing and cultivation results in soil erosion (remember the dust bowl? ) - the use of fertliser and pesticides to grow crops are all hugely damaging to the environment. Irrigation involves huge wastage of water and consequent impacts on wildlife and habitats. And so on it goes.

Over the past century - improvements in agricultural efficiency means that despite huge increases in population-



Even the recent UN report on food and climate did not suggest that we need to get rid of animal agriculture. This was the their recommendation



A normal balanced diet inclusive of animal sourced food in other words. So the expert opinion is that there is no case that we should 'take animals out of the equation"

Tbh the main ones I see pushing that idea is aggressive plant food industry interests and those whose beliefs mean they dont eat meat.

Hey delete some messages in your inbox....then i can reply to you!

MeTheMan

You can not live without affecting the lives of other animals! That's a fact.

ILoveYourVibes

MeTheMan wrote: »

You can not live without affecting the lives of other animals! That's a fact.

I for one am not denying that fact. I am not sure what it has to do with veganism though and the claim that veganism is a death cult.

eviltwin

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I for one am not denying that fact. I am not sure what it has to do with veganism though and the claim that veganism is a death cult.

100% of vegans die. Fact.

ILoveYourVibes

eviltwin wrote: »

100% of vegans die. Fact.

lol

Nay! Veganism gives you super powers of immortality!

I guess its only a matter of time before i fly a plane into a building.

Also ....meat eating is an animal death cult ..in fact most feasting is centered around animal sacrifice ..then eating said animal.

MeTheMan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I for one am not denying that fact. I am not sure what it has to do with veganism though and the claim that veganism is a death cult.

ILoveYourVibes wrote:

You realize the more you fight them the bigger they get?

There are vegan magnums in every news shop now and soya milk in every centra.

Its over. You lost.

ILoveYourVibes

MeTheMan wrote: »

Its true.

Veganism is now mainstream.

In 2014, only 1% of the American population labeled themselves as vegan. In 2017, that figure spiked to 6%. But that is only full time vegans. Now a lot of people are reducing meat and going meat free one or two days a week.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44488051

Sardonicat

Meat free is not vegan

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

Meat free is not vegan

People are reducing their intake of animal products. Well people who aren't you.

ILoveYourVibes

seamus wrote: »

Kind of odd how people who have a problem with veganism are far louder and more obsessed about it than vegans themselves.

In fairness some vegans can kind of be judgemental. But in this country yeah its true to say Irish meat eaters are weird about it. And irish vegans are pretty quiet as a group.

If you for some strange reason want to see Veganism as a culture war. You are losing. Vegan milk is everywhere.

And there aren't even that many vegans yet.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

People are reducing their intake of animal products. Well people who aren't you.

What exactly do you know about what I eat? Not eating meat is vegetarianism. Not eating and generally avoiding all food and products with animal derivatives is veganism. They are not the same thing.

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

What exactly do you know about what I eat? Not eating meat is vegetarianism. Not eating and generally avoiding all food and products with animal derivatives is veganism. They are not the same thing.

Calm down. Jeez.

I know you are not vegetarian/vegan.

I'm vegan. I resent being labelled a 'death cult'.

I also resent being labelled extreme ....i dont force people to eat vegan ...i don't freak out if i found out i accidentally consumed something with milk two weeks ago...

RobertKK

wakka12 wrote: »

Right, so 4.1% milk sales in the US are almond milk.
https://fortune.com/2015/05/27/almond-milk-sales-soaring-health/
And only 0.5% the population identify as vegan.
https://veganbits.com/vegan-demographics/

So clearly more non vegans are contributing towards this damage than vegans.

Yes as some like PETA have a campaign against milk, and they ironically promote almond milk which is killing bees.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Calm down. Jeez.

I know you are not vegetarian/vegan.

I'm vegan. I resent being labelled a 'death cult'.

I did not do that, nor do I think vegans are part of a death cult.I actu ally think fair play if you can do it. I was vegetarian for several years and don't eat meat daily. My partner hasn't eaten meat in almost 30 years. Who isn't calm, here?

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

I did not do that, nor do I think vegans are part of a death cult.I actu ally think fair play if you can do it. I was vegetarian for several years and don't eat meat daily. My partner hasn't eaten meat in almost 30 years. Who isn't calm, here?

Cool thanks

I don't want to fight with you either. I think actually i might like you in real life if i met you.

I don't think its discipline but environment. My mother went veggie when i was a kid ....so as she cooked we all did ...my bother is almost vegan ...its being surrounded by vegans etc ...plus as i said ..i never have to go anywhere these days where there isn't a vegan option like the old days.

So its not like i have tremendous will power i don't. Who knows i could fall off the wagon next week ...but then i just start again ..no biggie

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In fairness some vegans can kind of be judgemental. But in this country yeah its true to say Irish meat eaters are weird about it. And irish vegans are pretty quiet as a group.

If you for some strange reason want to see Veganism as a culture war. You are losing. Vegan milk is everywhere.

And there aren't even that many vegans yet.

True. My neighbour is so enthusiastic - he gets up at 6 each morning to milk his vegan cows ...