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Should the Dublin to Kerry PSO be replaced

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Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,402 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Meant to post this earlier but never got around to it.. I notice during the whole period Mar to Aug, the DUB-KIR seemed to keep operating.. I presume they were also claiming the PSO subsidy for these flights, even though the likely had at most 2-3 Pax.. Just seems like a huge waste of money at a time where the government finances are being hammered. Surely there is a provision in the contract for the flights to be suspended in extreme circumstances

    Of course they were getting the PSO subsidy for those flights - they were operating them because they were PSO. Stobart stopped every other flight. Donegal was reduced to 1x daily for a time; but the point is that they are subsidised as essential services and that essentiality didn't vanish.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    road_high wrote: »
    I disagree I think the likes of Donegal and Kerry warrant them. Neither have full motorway and/or railway links to the capital.

    Donegal somewhat has a case for flights but Kerry not so much


  • Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 5,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quackster


    road_high wrote: »
    I disagree I think the likes of Donegal and Kerry warrant them. Neither have full motorway and/or railway links to the capital.
    With the delivery of the Macroom and Adare bypasses, a PSO will become increasingly difficult to justify. I would expect the Kerry PSO to be gone by the end of the decade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,174 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    road_high wrote: »
    I disagree I think the likes of Donegal and Kerry warrant them. Neither have full motorway and/or railway links to the capital.

    You do realise that Kerry airport is right next to Farranfore train station? https://www.google.com/maps/dir/kerry+airport/Farranfore,+Co.+Kerry/@52.1771402,-9.553258,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x484530facba3506f:0x93746ff7034b4680!2m2!1d-9.5372189!2d52.181386!1m5!1m1!1s0x484530cf73a5abbf:0x58bed356bf52340c!2m2!1d-9.5521144!2d52.1737902


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Victor wrote: »
    Presumably he means County Kerry and County Donegal don't have motorway links and railway links to the capital, thereby justifying the PSO flights.

    There may be an argument that Donegal deserves a PSO more than Kerry, but in more normal times, Donegal was served by an ATR 42 and Kerry was served by an ATR 72. There's clearly more demand from Kerry based on that, which isn't surprising given the populations near the airports. Kerry Airport is very conveniently located near Killarney and Tralee, whereas Donegal Airport isn't near the bigger population centres in Donegal itself.

    There are planned road improvements for both counties, but the roads closer to the area served by Donegal Airport has chronic access compared to Kerry and there are no plans to improve it substantially. Kerry is getting the M21 motorway which will mean motorway from Rathkeale to Dublin, and Donegal is getting dual carriageway from Strabane to the border within NI and dual carriageway from the NI border to Ardee with small bits of 2+1 in between and the N33.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    marno21 wrote: »
    Presumably he means County Kerry and County Donegal don't have motorway links and railway links to the capital, thereby justifying the PSO flights.

    There may be an argument that Donegal deserves a PSO more than Kerry, but in more normal times, Donegal was served by an ATR 42 and Kerry was served by an ATR 72. There's clearly more demand from Kerry based on that, which isn't surprising given the populations near the airports. Kerry Airport is very conveniently located near Killarney and Tralee, whereas Donegal Airport isn't near the bigger population centres in Donegal itself.

    There are planned road improvements for both counties, but the roads closer to the area served by Donegal Airport has chronic access compared to Kerry and there are no plans to improve it substantially. Kerry is getting the M21 motorway which will mean motorway from Rathkeale to Dublin, and Donegal is getting dual carriageway from Strabane to the border within NI and dual carriageway from the NI border to Ardee with small bits of 2+1 in between and the N33.

    Kerry may utilise an ATR72 as it has more demand, but if you removed the PSO subsidy and fare went from €96 to €225 what would the demand be like


  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    10 months on,

    PSO subsidies kept flowing for the Kerry route

    Stobart air is no longer

    France has banned domestic routes from competing with rail for environmental reasons

    Should Kerry be dropped off the tender for a replacement PSO service to replace stobart air?

    A few weeks of it not operating will probably show us how it isn’t really needed anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Yes, it should be dropped now. A completely unnecessary air link. There's a train station right next to the airport with a direct link to Dublin!

    Politics will ensure it continues however.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I think this might be the end of the Kerry service.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    The PSO funding has been removed. Kerry-Dublin will restart (if they can all agree) but it will be operated on a commercial basis. I don't see how it's commercially viable in the long term and expect Ryanair to pull out within a few years.


    As the Department of Transport, Ryanair and Kerry Airport argue over announcements, the fact that the €4m/ year PSO funding has been removed has faced very little criticism. A rare moment of political genius?






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  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    It isn't commercially viable, Ryanair are operating the route at a loss for Political reasons.. 2 x 737/day is far too much aircraft for the route, even before COVID.. Bear in mind how critical of the government's COVID policies for aviation they have been for the past few months also..

    Convenient for DOT as there will be flights for the 6 months they need to re-tender..



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    What political reasons does Ryanair have for volunteering to operate a route for a loss?


    Ryanair will try to bully Kerry Airport into giving them discount fees. They may or may not give in. Either way, it's not sustainable for either party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,199 ✭✭✭markpb


    Stepping in to operate flights when the government and DoT are stuck is no bad thing. Compared to the losses they have sustained over the last 18 months, this is nothing and you never know when having a government on your side will come in handy in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭VG31


    Does anyone know when the winning bidder of the Donegal PSO will be announced after the current contrat expires at the end of February? I've heard Emerald are planning to operate the route from then.



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