Cardinal Sin Committed - No Oil!!

iqmdublin

so bike is a Yamaha Virago 250, I let it run too low on oil somehow.


anyone any suggestions on either fixing the engine I've got, or else any ideas for where to source a spare engine?

also the exhaust is needing some serious repair or else replacement (photos below!)



-Cityspares haven't got anything

-Best offer I've has so far is for a shop to fit a Lifan 250 engine, plus welding on the exhaust for around the 800 mark



plan tomorrow is to put oil in, and use a compression tester on it to hopefully give me a better idea of how banjaxed it currently is

zubair

Is that a pic of the exhaust or the titanic?

Use harpic power plus on the pipes to get rid of that crap and see what you're dealing with.

The bottom end has probably gone on your bike. Call a few shops to see what can be done. I had an engine swap done for €600 years ago when a motor blew on an old bike.

D3V!L

Remove the rust and I dont think there'd be anything left.

Fabio

iqmdublin wrote: »

so bike is a Yamaha Virago 250, I let it run too low on oil somehow.


anyone any suggestions on either fixing the engine I've got, or else any ideas for where to source a spare engine?

also the exhaust is needing some serious repair or else replacement (photos below!)



-Cityspares haven't got anything

-Best offer I've has so far is for a shop to fit a Lifan 250 engine, plus welding on the exhaust for around the 800 mark



plan tomorrow is to put oil in, and use a compression tester on it to hopefully give me a better idea of how banjaxed it currently is

That looks absolutely in bits. The poor bike.

I doubt the exhaust can be welded, there's nothing to weld on to apart from rust so you'll need a new system there I reckon.

Is the frame in a similar state? If it is then it might not be safe to ride and could snap. You'd be in serious crap then.

Del2005

zubair wrote: »

Is that a pic of the exhaust or the titanic?

Use harpic power plus on the pipes to get rid of that crap and see what you're dealing with.

The bottom end has probably gone on your bike. Call a few shops to see what can be done. I had an engine swap done for €600 years ago when a motor blew on an old bike.

If the pipes are that bad with corrosion there's no cleaning it off as the metal is already gone they need a new exhaust.

Max Headroom

You let the oil run low ..and what..??...did it seize or did you just notice the oil light/level was low...more info...exhausts rust...just look for a replacement

zubair

Actually, a quick google and a full system is cheap as chips, replace.

CJhaughey

New Engine and Exhaust needed on a bike that looks that bad is IMHO throwing away good money.
You would be better off looking for a good secondhand machine and putting the €800 against a bike that is in better condition.

Break that bike for parts and sell off any bits that are in serviceable condition and that may help offset the cost of another machine.

listermint

CJhaughey wrote: »

New Engine and Exhaust needed on a bike that looks that bad is IMHO throwing away good money.
You would be better off looking for a good secondhand machine and putting the €800 against a bike that is in better condition.

Break that bike for parts and sell off any bits that are in serviceable condition and that may help offset the cost of another machine.

This!, go get another bike

iqmdublin

D3V!L wrote: »

Remove the rust and I dont think there'd be anything left.

my thoughts! its why im reluctant to drop it in to get it done because i know it'll inevitably end up going over budget and a new exhaust being brought in

iqmdublin

Max Headroom wrote: »

You let the oil run low ..and what..??...did it seize or did you just notice the oil light/level was low...more info...exhausts rust...just look for a replacement

no oil light came on, just ran out of oil, over a relatively short space of time which is why i wasn't expecting it.

it cut out when i was driving, and now wont turn over, its sort of wants to still, if you give it throttle it'll go for a second or two then cut out.


old school mechanic in the area said to put some oil in, and gave me a compression tester to see what happens

iqmdublin

CJhaughey wrote: »

New Engine and Exhaust needed on a bike that looks that bad is IMHO throwing away good money.
You would be better off looking for a good secondhand machine and putting the €800 against a bike that is in better condition.

Break that bike for parts and sell off any bits that are in serviceable condition and that may help offset the cost of another machine.[/QUOTE


this is the option always looming yep, just trying to salvage this first (quite liked the bike), but going to look at another one this evening to have options!



i understand the whole 'dont throw money into a black hole' thing, It'll either be a decent repair involving swapped parts on this bike or else another one

iqmdublin

any thoughts on a replacement engine and exhaust from a Lifan 250?? (the Chinese imitation of yamaha)

Interceptor

iqmdublin wrote: »

any thoughts on a replacement engine and exhaust from a Lifan 250?? (the Chinese imitation of yamaha)

It would get you back on the road - make sure the replacement engine comes with some sort of warranty in case it isn't what its supposed to be...

I'd like to see the rest of the bike and try to figure what its value will be once its got a Lifan engine fitted. If the exhaust pics are anything to go by I'd be worried you are wasting money fixing it. Trade your scrap bike in somewhere and let the shop worry about getting it back to standard - take the hit but use it as leverage to get good value on a replacement bike.

iqmdublin

Interceptor wrote: »

It would get you back on the road - make sure the replacement engine comes with some sort of warranty in case it isn't what its supposed to be...

I'd like to see the rest of the bike and try to figure what its value will be once its got a Lifan engine fitted. If the exhaust pics are anything to go by I'd be worried you are wasting money fixing it. Trade your scrap bike in somewhere and let the shop worry about getting it back to standard - take the hit but use it as leverage to get good value on a replacement bike.

photos added below for the rest of it!

zubair

and the after pics...

Del2005

Interceptor wrote: »

It would get you back on the road - make sure the replacement engine comes with some sort of warranty in case it isn't what its supposed to be...

.

You don't need a warranty when dealing with a business as you have much better protection under the sale of goods and supply of services act.

iqmdublin

zubair wrote: »

and the after pics...

not following : /

those are from today, its only the underneath of the exhaust thats in bad shape.

Aftermarket exhausts are under €200 so that's an option

Esel

How low was the oil level? The engine is not fully seized up anyway, as you say it turns over when trying to start.

Have you found any evidence of an oil leak? Was the engine burning oil (blue smoke from exhaust)?

Presuming you now have the correct quantity of oil installed, disconnect the spark plug leads and remove the spark plugs. Put a bit of oil into the cylinders and replace the plugs. Leave the leads off. Then turn the engine over for a while without the plug leads connected to lubricate the pistons, rings and bores. You don't want to try to start it without doing this first. A squirt of oil on the rockers would be a good idea too.

Get it running (if you can) and go from there. Replacement engine should be the last resort, and may not be required.

zubair

I jest but it seems you were good at cleaning part of the bike, just not all of the bike. Unlike me, who never cleans all of the bike.

Get some oil into the damn thing and see what happens. I'd also try and scrub that crud off the exhaust, you might be ok, or it might all fall apart.

iqmdublin

Esel wrote: »

How low was the oil level? The engine is not fully seized up anyway, as you say it turns over when trying to start.

Have you found any evidence of an oil leak? Was the engine burning oil (blue smoke from exhaust)?

Presuming you now have the correct quantity of oil installed, disconnect the spark plug leads and remove the spark plugs. Put a bit of oil into the cylinders and replace the plugs. Leave the leads off. Then turn the engine over for a while without the plug leads connected to lubricate the pistons, rings and bores. You don't want to try to start it without doing this first. A squirt of oil on the rockers would be a good idea too.

Get it running (if you can) and go from there. Replacement engine should be the last resort, and may not be required.

thanks for the old school positivity and fix it attitude!



i couldn't get the sparks off today, i have to buy the right socket for it (had the right size just couldnt get it over the top of the spark).


oil - it was low low low, I filled it today to the upper limit with almost a litre and a half.



I can't see evidence of a leak, but I wouldn't have a good eye for that. I wasn't sure if it was splashback from the chain but there is old oil definitely hanging around the engine, so possibly.



Tomorrow morning I'm going to walk the thing home (3 miles), and try what you suggested.

Thinking new sparks, and do all of this then.

Couldn't test the compression today cause of not getting the sparks off.

Whats the rockers?

iqmdublin

zubair wrote: »

I jest but it seems you were good at cleaning part of the bike, just not all of the bike. Unlike me, who never cleans all of the bike.

Get some oil into the damn thing and see what happens. I'd also try and scrub that crud off the exhaust, you might be ok, or it might all fall apart.

thats the stupid part of it all! I'm normally well on the ball with this stuff, I've just been using it so little, (10,000km in 5 years) for some reason it wasn't on my radar. The rest of the bike is relatively rust free and clean, couldn't do anything about that exhaust rotting to pieces though : /


I had a good look at it today, for me theres zero chance of salvaging the exhaust

zubair

In that case get some oil in and see if it will start, if you blew the engine it would be obvious, you would have heard a horrible racket.

CJhaughey

The bike actually looks good from what is visible.
You may have had a hot seizure and now the bike is cooled down it might be able to restart with limited damage, that is a best case scenario.
If the Lifan is a drop in then it might be worth doing but the value of the bike will be reduced considerably due to the replacement engine not being original.
You will know more once you get a compression test done and see if it runs.

galwaytt

iqmdublin wrote: »

photos added below for the rest of it!

ah, that puts a different complection on it: I was expecting the rest 'to match' the exhausts !

Too good to scrap imho, and worth either fixing or replacing the engine if worst comes to worst.

Of all the things that are fixable, engine & exhaust are: the rest of the bike if it was as bad, would make it unsaveable. Yours is better than that.

D3V!L

galwaytt wrote: »

ah, that puts a different complection on it: I was expecting the rest 'to match' the exhausts !

Too good to scrap imho, and worth either fixing or replacing the engine if worst comes to worst.

Of all the things that are fixable, engine & exhaust are: the rest of the bike if it was as bad, would make it unsaveable. Yours is better than that.

Go on lads , I know you're all disappointed by the pic !!

I know I am.

Too nice of a bike to scrap. OP, get your front brakes sorted as well, I can see a serious lip on that disk.

Del2005

iqmdublin wrote: »

thanks for the old school positivity and fix it attitude!



i couldn't get the sparks off today, i have to buy the right socket for it (had the right size just couldnt get it over the top of the spark).


oil - it was low low low, I filled it today to the upper limit with almost a litre and a half.



I can't see evidence of a leak, but I wouldn't have a good eye for that. I wasn't sure if it was splashback from the chain but there is old oil definitely hanging around the engine, so possibly.



Tomorrow morning I'm going to walk the thing home (3 miles), and try what you suggested.

Thinking new sparks, and do all of this then.

Couldn't test the compression today cause of not getting the sparks off.

Whats the rockers?

Check with your insurance if you have recovery. Pushing a bike is no fun, pushing one for 3 miles will be a nightmare.

zubair

Are you checking the other conunables on the bike regularly?

iqmdublin

Del2005 wrote: »

Check with your insurance if you have recovery. Pushing a bike is no fun, pushing one for 3 miles will be a nightmare.

i got it brought from where it broke down to harolds cross to try with 2 bike shops! so insurance will only move it once! : /
actually been too tired after work the last 2 days to walk it home, will try for it tomorrow or saturday!

iqmdublin

zubair wrote: »

Are you checking the other conunables on the bike regularly?

surprisingly yes!

honda boi

Anyone you know have aa membership?
They'll move the bike to where you want to.

iqmdublin

walked it home last week! just been away for a few days since.
seems the plan is to take it apart myself and get old school mechanics to give a diagnosis

The Tetrarch

Why not give it to a mechanic first?

Years ago my brother decided to change the oil on his Honda CD175.
One drop came out. He "topped it up" and it ran well.
After a few days we insisted he change the oil again and this time change the oil filter.

iqmdublin

initial diagnosis was from a mechanic to the effect of - its wrecked, change the engine. That after listening to it trying to turn over and there was definitely a grinding/clunky noise.
got an old school mechanic to listen to it at home (the oul fella), and immediately his response was - 'you're taking it apart, its making a knocking noise'.....

mechanics I've all rang are running away from anything like this and lecturing me about the need to throw the bike away and buy another one.
and the only one actually up for the repair job is quoting anywhere up to 1,200 to get it back right.
thinking, with the oul fella and another old school local mechanic (who takes apart outboard motor engines and car engines for fun...), I should be able to get a fix on whats wrong, sort it, and slap it back together.

Worst case scenario, I'll have tried!

There honestly wasn't any mechanic I spoke to who was in any was enthusiastic about even looking at it!

The Tetrarch

In a way I envy you.
You might not get it back in good shape but you will learn a lot about engines.

iqmdublin

I know this might sound odd coming from the eejit who didn't fill up the oil in the first place, but I'm intending to get it back 98% - 100% !!
Speaking to the local old school mechanic, he's given me places to go to get certain jobs done by pro's who know what they're doing.

It just depends on how much damage there is there.


I see the bill going up to the same price as it would be to put that Lifan Engine in it, but at the end of the day, its been kept original and I'll clean and tart up all the parts as I'm going and taking it apart.



Don't be envious, gonna be a long job!

Clearing out the shed at the moment to make space for it...! : /

CJhaughey

Take the engine out and make a stand for it, then you will be able to work at a sensible height and in comfort.
You don't need the whole bike in the shed, just the engine.
Engine stands are simple to make and make working on a bigger engine much easier.

The Tetrarch

I bought Classic Bike magazine this morning (issue #481 February 2020).
It has a four page article in the Classic Workshop section (page 102) about a specialist company I Cleenz Machines.
It is well worth reading: vapour blasting; grit blasting; ultra-sonic washing.
https://www.icmhome.org.uk/

iqmdublin

So!!

First of all, I've lost respect for all the mechanics who wouldn't even touch this job.
All saying the same thing, oh its a lot of work to get the engine out and apart etc etc
It took me (someone who's never done this before) no time at all to take the engine out of the frame, up on a table, top end apart etc and to get the oul fella to have a look and diagnose the problem.

The top end is fine, the problem is in one cylinder, the piston has give in it, so it needs a bottom end rebuild if I was to go down that road.
This is expensive and the job isnt guaranteed obviously, so prettymuch everyone agrees that its not a great option

Still lots of other options as regards getting another engine or a bottom end even, but my point is, diagnosing the problem doesn't take much time or skill, and I'm amazed that mechanics wouldn't go near it. Should take less than 2 hours to do what I did to someone with experience

zubair

iqmdublin wrote: »

Still lots of other options as regards getting another engine or a bottom end even, but my point is, diagnosing the problem doesn't take much time or skill, and I'm amazed that mechanics wouldn't go near it. Should take less than 2 hours to do what I did to someone with experience

zubair wrote: »

The bottom end has probably gone on your bike. Call a few shops to see what can be done. I had an engine swap done for €600 years ago when a motor blew on an old bike.

You're right it doesn't take long to diagnose it, I did it without even looking at the bike. The dealer is going to give you the best option for your money and work they can stand over. While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it. If the bottom end is gone I'd try and find a new motor for it. I think that's what the dealers told you too.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Everyone loves a project.

iqmdublin

zubair wrote: »

You're right it doesn't take long to diagnose it, I did it without even looking at the bike. The dealer is going to give you the best option for your money and work they can stand over. While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it. If the bottom end is gone I'd try and find a new motor for it. I think that's what the dealers told you too.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Everyone loves a project.

If it was just 100 to diagnose, I would have done that!
No one would touch it! One guy in Rathgar was talking about 8 hours labour to take the engine apart.....!!
I just wanted to find out was is salvageable; I’d heard of stories of people not needing to do much repair work at all for similar things, and got out of it for 200/300.

I think people now are far too quick to say - ‘get a new bike’, ‘get a new engine’...! Without even giving a repair diagnosis a try!
For all everyone knew it could have been minor top end work needed.

Same thing happened last year with my car, mechanic wrote it off cause it needed a new turbo etc etc. Turns out he was wrong, turbo repair place looked at it and gave it the thumbs up. And car is still running great for a fraction of what he quoted it would take

Happened to me with a guitar this year as well, 3 places wrote it off because they weren’t able to find the problem (dead sound on the high E on the 2nd to 5th fret),
Old school guy in Rathfarnham looked at it and reglued the frets, got it back sounding perfect!

Had a few experiences like this, so I’m just not so quick to write something off, that’s all!

Thanks for the advice though, will have a ponder what to do and might put in an engine from another bike!

iqmdublin

zubair wrote: »

While a dealer would diagnose it much quicker, you'd be down 100 bucks already for labour and that hasn't gotten you any nearer fixing it.

Just on this point, was quoted 150 to just remove an engine, not even take the top end apart.

So I’ve removed it already, prepping it for whatever it next, and also diagnosed the problem which lets me know exactly where I stand with the old engine, I would see that as a few steps nearer to fixing it!

CJhaughey

A good secondhand crank might be a decent call, is there any piston damage/scuffing etc?
Amazing there is no topend damage, what is the cam running in bearings or on plain metal?

iqmdublin

CJhaughey wrote: »

A good secondhand crank might be a decent call, is there any piston damage/scuffing etc?
Amazing there is no topend damage, what is the cam running in bearings or on plain metal?

asked the oulfella (he's only the use of one arm after a stroke, so hasn't gone at it himself properly), he did a few little tests himself and without taking it apart said his guess would be plain metal, but it looked like it was all in good shape.



only one end of the big end is gone (if that makes sense) and seems to be surprising him too!



brought it to another mechanic today to get an opinion and the opinion was he didn't even want to look or help me diagnose things to get some idea of price! typical! had it in the boot of the car and all.



gonna go to the other old school mechanic locally and see what he has to say....


Another question actually, would anyone be able to point me in the direction of a cheapish paint sprayer?

Got quoted 200 and 250 by two different places, just for the tank

seems a lot no?

Interceptor

€200-€250 for a tank spray is about right - I'm sure you could get cheaper but it will look shiite. Have you rang every breaker in the country to see if you can source a replacement engine for the bike? Fluting around with engine rebuilds will only result in an unreliable result.

lalababa

I'd be interested in knowing where the bike breakers are especially Munster🙂🙂

H_Lime

lalababa wrote: »

I'd be interested in knowing where the bike breakers are especially Munster����

Pt down ringaskiddy direction.

lalababa

H_Lime wrote: »

Pt down ringaskiddy direction.

Was there years ago, do they have much stuff, cause I couldn't even get passable Suzuki indicators!

iqmdublin

Quick update:

1) Got the Lifan 250 replica engine, and exhaust.

2) Ordering a new chain and sprockets, cleaning up the bike etc (maybe spraying the tank)

3) Ordering a gasket set and putting the Yamaha casings on the new engine (900km on it only)


Gonna strip the old engine with a friend and maybe fix it up in time to get it running condition again (as it only had 29,000km on it), or if its really not worth doing, will strip it anyway, have a good look and get to understand engines a bit better.

And that seems to get me back on with things fairly cheap.

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly because even the tank on ebay would get €100, plus a newly covered seat etc.
And when I'm replacing it, will aim for similar I think, lots of top condition virago 250's/535's in england.

Thanks for the help/advise from yiz all anyhow!

The Tetrarch

iqmdublin wrote: »

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly

Not to them. :cool:
I read an article in a motorbike mag recently saying to make a bike from new spares would cost three to four times the cost of the bike new.
Years ago I worked in a company that bought new parts people had on their shelves and didn't want (not motorcycles). Our boss typically offered "10 cents on the dollar" or 1/10 of list price. After a bit of haggling we probably paid about 15% of list price, and then sold them over a year or two for about four times our cost or more.

galwaytt

iqmdublin wrote: »

Quick update:

1) Got the Lifan 250 replica engine, and exhaust.

2) Ordering a new chain and sprockets, cleaning up the bike etc (maybe spraying the tank)

3) Ordering a gasket set and putting the Yamaha casings on the new engine (900km on it only)


Gonna strip the old engine with a friend and maybe fix it up in time to get it running condition again (as it only had 29,000km on it), or if its really not worth doing, will strip it anyway, have a good look and get to understand engines a bit better.

And that seems to get me back on with things fairly cheap.

Cityspares was offering €100 for the whole bike as scrap, which is silly because even the tank on ebay would get €100, plus a newly covered seat etc.
And when I'm replacing it, will aim for similar I think, lots of top condition virago 250's/535's in england.

Thanks for the help/advise from yiz all anyhow!

Sounds like a good way out, to not drag it out too long as well: how much did the Lifan engine cost you ?