2019 Irish EV sales

PaulRyan97

Overall it was a great year for xEV sales in Ireland, up nearly 70% year on year. The largest growth was in BEV's which nearly tripled 2018's figures. Combined xEV share of the market was 12.79% compared to 2018's 7.08%.



Most of the sales seem to be coming from people switching from diesel vehicles, sales of the oil burners dropped 20% from last year while petrol remained more or less the same.



The no.1 best selling car was the Toyota Corolla, by a significant margin. 87.5% of those were the hybrid model.

In the BEV world, the Kona and the Leaf tied for first place with exactly 1086 cars sold each. Most other BEVs recorded sizable growth in sales, the Tesla Model 3 made a belated entrance in November, becoming the best selling car for that month.

159conor

Kona and leaf sales are exactly the same well thats going to throw a wrench in Nissan and Hyundai marketing departments as they both cant really say they had the best selling ev last year.

JPA

Is there anything tracking second hand EV sales?

September1

159conor wrote: »

Kona and leaf sales are exactly the same well thats going to throw a wrench in Nissan and Hyundai marketing departments as they both cant really say they had the best selling ev last year.

Hyundai could correctly claim they are most popular EV brand in Ireland.

unkel

The sale of diesels was still pathetically high, as always Ireland is far behind the trend that is moving away from diesel towards fully electric very quickly in other EU countries. Taxes on new diesels should already have been so high that nobody wants to buy them anymore. And so that depreciation will be horrific on them.

September1 wrote: »

Hyundai could correctly claim they are most popular EV brand in Ireland.

It's neck and neck if you consider that Hyundai and Kia are sister companies (a bit like Renault and Nissan, so you should add their sales up too)

unkel

unkel wrote: »

The sale of diesels was still pathetically high, as always Ireland is far behind the trend that is moving away from diesel towards fully electric very quickly in other EU countries. Taxes on new diesels should already have been so high that nobody wants to buy them anymore. And so that depreciation will be horrific on them.

It's neck and neck if you consider that Hyundai and Kia are sister companies (a bit like Renault and Nissan, so you should add their sales up too)

People don't like change. I am still astonished with the amount of People still burning smokey coal in towns and villages all across Ireland, even in Towns like Carlow Town where there is a smokey coal ban I can regularly see coal smoke bellowing from Chimneys right across town and in neighboring villages the air pollution is disgraceful as clouds of coal smog choke everyone.

I heard on the local KFM where it was said by ( EPA ) ? if I heard it correctly that the air pollution is worse in Letterkenny than in New Delhi and the same can probably be said for most places in Ireland between coal, Turf and Briquettes.

Back to Diesel, the Government don't want to tackle real pollution issues because it will mean financial pain for a lot of people in the short term and they don't want to be associated with making unpopular decisions.

Seemingly the Irish Government has backed off on their plans to ban buying and selling and burning of smokey coal. I think there is a legal challenge to this new proposal I heard from a local coal supplier. You couldn't make it up.

The British must be laughing their heads off at Paddy taking 100,000 + of their filthy diesels in 2019 !

liamog

At the ID.3 prebookers event, VW had a slide estimating Irish EV sales for 2020 at 7,500. I think that's probably achievable, but based on the current available models I expect we'll see a huge leap on the 202 plates.

PaulRyan97

liamog wrote: »

At the ID.3 prebookers event, VW had a slide estimating Irish EV sales for 2020 at 7,500. I think that's probably achievable, but based on the current available models I expect we'll see a huge leap on the 202 plates.

Was that PHEVs and BEVs combined? I wouldn't expect BEV sales alone to climb that high this year, maybe ~6000.

SomeGuyCalledMi

Bought a diesel kodiaq last year. I wish there was a good electric 7 seater for about 40k.
Anything coming in 2020? How much will model Y cost?

liamog

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

Was that PHEVs and BEVs combined? I wouldn't expect BEV sales alone to climb that high this year, maybe ~6000.

No it was BEV's. There are a good few models coming in 2020, and manufacturers can now avail of super credits for emissions. There's the ID.3, Mini-e, e-Corsa, e-208, e-2008 all due out this year. Lots of choice at the lower end of the market.

Kia has also supposedly solved the supply issues for the Niro for the 2nd half of the year.

Atlantic Dawn

Walk around any US city with its incredibly heavy traffic and congestion, do the same in Dublin and you will see how toxic our air has become just because of the prolification of diesel in to private cars. No measurements at all here to expose the scandal, a case of heads in the sand.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

No it was BEV's. There are a good few models coming in 2020, and manufacturers can now avail of super credits for emissions. There's the ID.3, Mini-e, e-Corsa, e-208, e-2008 all due out this year. Lots of choice at the lower end of the market.

Kia has also supposedly solved the supply issues for the Niro for the 2nd half of the year.

This was the reason for the delay in sales from OEMs I suspect.

fricatus

ELM327 wrote: »

This was the reason for the delay in sales from OEMs I suspect.

What do you mean by OEMs in this context? The car manufacturers (e.g. KIA) or the battery manufacturers?

Should we take it from this that the lead time for cars like the E-Niro will drop now?

ELM327

fricatus wrote: »

What do you mean by OEMs in this context? The car manufacturers (e.g. KIA) or the battery manufacturers?

Should we take it from this that the lead time for cars like the E-Niro will drop now?

by OEMs I mean the original fossil fuel manufacturers that are selling the odd EV for compliance reasons. EG Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai/Kia etc

deegs

Amazed at ioniq vs Kona numbers.... Ioniq is such a superior car.... Even now as I trade up from ioniq to soul for the range, Kona is t even an option!

ELM327

deegs wrote: »

Amazed at ioniq vs Kona numbers.... Ioniq is such a superior car.... Even now as I trade up from ioniq to soul for the range, Kona is t even an option!

The Ioniq28 was a superior car. The "upgraded" Ioniq is inferior to the kona in every way except interior space

Mickeroo

There was also nowhere near the same level of availability with the Ioniq as there was with the kona.

Salary Negotiator

159conor wrote: »

Kona and leaf sales are exactly the same well thats going to throw a wrench in Nissan and Hyundai marketing departments as they both cant really say they had the best selling ev last year.

Hyundai Kona: Ireland's fastest growing EV from Ireland's biggest selling EV brand.

Mike9832

3% market share still pathetic for a very generous €10,000 grant/vrt rebate

What was the % 3 years ago?

Will they drop that grant/vrt rebate once it's gets to 10%, should be about 2022 at current rate

unkel

deegs wrote: »

Amazed at ioniq vs Kona numbers.... Ioniq is such a superior car.... Even now as I trade up from ioniq to soul for the range, Kona is t even an option!

Kona for a long time was the only available long range EV (apart from Teslas costing 3 or 4 times as much)

So even though €40k wasn't good value for money for a poor enough spec small crossover, it was good enough value for the people who wanted a longer EV that was actually available to buy (Ioniq neither has enough range for these people and availability was also always a problem except for the first few months it could be ordered, 3 years ago)

Remember over 2018 and most of 2019, public fast charging was very dodgy, particularly in the greater Dublin area. If you needed to drive long range and needed to arrive in time, public charging was not a reliable option, you needed a big battery.

NIMAN

Great to see diesel plummet in sales.
I think this will be an avalanche over the next few years.

PaulRyan97

Mike9832 wrote: »

3% market share still pathetic for a very generous €10,000 grant/vrt rebate

What was the % 3 years ago?

Will they drop that grant/vrt rebate once it's gets to 10%, should be about 2022 at current rate

It was 0.98% in 2018, 0.27% in 2016. More electric cars were sold this year than the last 3 years combined.

Mike9832

PaulRyan97 wrote: »

It was 0.98% in 2018, 0.27% in 2016. More electric cars were sold this year than the last 3 years combined.

Thanks

Triple every year

10% by 2022 looks possible

ELM327

I've said it here for some time, 2020 will be the year of the EV

jusmeig

The numbers are small, agreed, but i'm going for the glass half full on this one:

- 3% less carcinogens around our schools, shops, hospitals etc...
- 3% less ICE cars on the road, leading a path to sustainable transport
- The rising market share (mostly in Europe) has lead to a fundamental shift in how big Auto views electric cars (VW etc being EV fanboys now)

Lets make it 6% in 2020

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

I've said it here for some time, 2020 will be the year of the EV

Don't think it will reach 5% this year

Availability is low on Hyundai/Kia range, Leaf is over priced and VW ID3 will be delayed imo and won't have volume till 2021, Zoe/eCorsa/e208 all over priced too

Tesla Model 3 is over priced too as well, can see sales stagnating on that once first big deliveries are done or maybe not, hard to predict Tesla

2021 will be the year, VW and Autogiants will really push then with big price cuts and incentives, but the Government will have to look at cutting €10,000 grant/rebate if it's getting close to 10% market, cost us too much.

NIMAN

The more that people see driving about, the more their interest will be tweaked.

Its a snowball effect. A slow one, granted, but it will gather pace.

I do think many will want hybrid though, rather than full EV.

Rusky rusky

jusmeig wrote: »

The numbers are small, agreed, but i'm going for the glass half full on this one:

- 3% less carcinogens around our schools, shops, hospitals etc...
- 3% less ICE cars on the road, leading a path to sustainable transport
- The rising market share (mostly in Europe) has lead to a fundamental shift in how big Auto views electric cars (VW etc being EV fanboys now)

Lets make it 6% in 2020

According to beepbeep.ie 3444 new and 644 imported BEVs were registered on 2019. It was nicely compensated by 81608 imported diesels....

jusmeig

Rusky rusky wrote: »

According to beepbeep.ie 3444 new and 644 imported BEVs were registered on 2019. It was nicely compensated by 81608 imported diesels....

My point is -> things are going in the right direction (depending on your point of view of course)
There is exponential growth.
Automakers are scaling up in a big way -> this is the key thing to note.

ELM327

Things are absolutely going in the right direction.
the amount of people in my social circles who have started asking themselves the question following seeing my tesla is startling

Admittedly, most are waiting for the prices to drop a bit but it's a lot different to when they laughed at me in my leaf "golf cart" in 2016.

NIMAN

ELM327 wrote: »

Things are absolutely going in the right direction.
the amount of people in my social circles who have started asking themselves the question following seeing my tesla is startling

Admittedly, most are waiting for the prices to drop a bit but it's a lot different to when they laughed at me in my leaf "golf cart" in 2016.

Of course a Tesla will make most people think EVs aren't a fad/joke.

But they are not in the range of most buyers, we need more family sized cars which are priced well for the public.

That annoys me about people laughing at the likes of a Leaf. My 2014 Leaf is more technically advanced than most of the cars my friends drive.

ELM327

NIMAN wrote: »

Of course a Tesla will make most people think EVs aren't a fad/joke.

But they are not in the range of most buyers, we need more family sized cars which are priced well for the public.

That annoys me about people laughing at the likes of a Leaf. My 2014 Leaf is more technically advanced than most of the cars my friends drive.

But it shows that people are open to the idea of an EV. When they ask the price and gasp I point them to the Kona/eniro/esoul, or the model 3. I'm not saying we should all go out and spend the amount of a small house on a car, just that before people wouild have laughed at the EV idea, now they are EV curious


It's true what you say about the leaf 24, it was the best of its time, well ahead of anything else, but it did meet with that impression from some - shall we say - misinformed members of the community?

KCross

Mike9832 wrote: »

Availability is low on Hyundai/Kia range, Leaf is over priced and VW ID3 will be delayed imo and won't have volume till 2021, Zoe/eCorsa/e208 all over priced too

The entry level 50kWh e-208 is €27k in Ireland. I didnt think that was so bad.

The price difference to its diesel version is €5500 so it is a premium but the electric version has 36hp more and will be much better to drive.

Cheaper would be better of course, but its not ridiculously priced if you take TCO into account.... is it? What do you think is reasonable which still allows them to make profit?

Mike9832 wrote: »

2021 will be the year, VW and Autogiants will really push then with big price cuts and incentives, but the Government will have to look at cutting €10,000 grant/rebate if it's getting close to 10% market, cost us too much.

2021 should be the big year (maybe even later this year) but I'm not holding my breath for big price cuts and as you said, as soon as there are some cuts the govt will pull the grants so dont expect a €20k e208/ID.3/Corsa/etc anytime soon. They cant magic extra margin from nowhere and they need profit.

LG/SDI/Panasonic/etc have them all caught by the balls at the moment!

Mike9832

KCross wrote: »

The entry level 50kWh e-208 is €27k in Ireland. I didnt think that was so bad.

The price difference to its diesel version is €5500 so it is a premium but the electric version has 36hp more and will be much better to drive.

Cheaper would be better of course, but its not ridiculously priced if you take TCO into account.... is it? What do you think is reasonable which still allows them to make profit?




2021 should be the big year (maybe even later this year) but I'm not holding my breath for big price cuts and as you said, as soon as there are some cuts the govt will pull the grants so dont expect a €20k e208/ID.3/Corsa/etc anytime soon. They cant magic extra margin from nowhere and they need profit.

LG/SDI/Panasonic/etc have them all caught by the balls at the moment!

I think they are over priced for what they are, your looking at close to 30k for ok spec, alot of money for tiny Polo sized cars

Alot depends on subsidies, take away that €10,000 away in 2021 and EV's won't reach cost parity till 2025 imo, they will struggle for market share without subsidy

LG/Samsung/CATL are more frustrated than anything, don't think they have them by the balls per say

They are ready to go and raise production rapidly but autogiants are still acting like EVs are going to boom and then bust, they are slow to demand production from them

Autogiants etc talk a big game but I don't think any of them are all in, they want to keep ICE alive and I believe they think EVs will bust after the initial boom

Hydrogen at €5 a kg is supposedly coming and at that price it doesnt look good for EVs, they wont give up on it quickly

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

I think they are over priced for what they are, your looking at close to 30k for ok spec, alot of money for tiny Polo sized cars

Alot depends on subsidies, take away that €10,000 away in 2021 and EV's won't reach cost parity till 2025 imo, they will struggle for market share without subsidy

LG/Samsung/CATL are more frustrated than anything, don't think they have them by the balls per say

They are ready to go and raise production rapidly but autogiants are still acting like EVs are going to boom and then bust, they are slow to demand production from them

Autogiants etc talk a big game but I don't think any of them are all in, they want to keep ICE alive and I believe they think EVs will bust after the initial boom

Hydrogen at €5 a kg is supposedly coming and at that price it doesnt look good for EVs, they wont give up on it quickly

Ah mike, I was on board until you mentioned that hydrogen nonsense!

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Ah mike, I was on board until you mentioned that hydrogen nonsense!

I thought it was too

It will catch on

Dont be at yourself

2020 will undoubtedly be a big step up on 2019, just looking at all the new models coming to market:

VW ID3
Peugeot e208, e2008
Opel e-Corsa
Renault Zoe refresh
Seat el born
Mini electric
Honda E
DS3 e-tense
Volvo XC40
Ford Mustang Mach E

...and Tesla delivering in volume.

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

I thought it was too

It will catch on

Currently it takes 3kWh of (mostly fossil fuel derived) electricity to generate 1kWh of h2.


That 3kWh would be better off stored directly in a battery than made into h2. It is also less efficient than a BEV. Even Tesla, as a relatively inefficenct model S, gets ~100mpge whereas a toyota mirai FCEV struggles to get 56mpge, which can be easily beaten in a fossil fuel car.




Hydrogen does not work. It only has one advantage over BEVs, range. But when you have similar range in a BEV and can charge at home, H2 is a nonsense.

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Currently it takes 3kWh of (mostly fossil fuel derived) electricity to generate 1kWh of h2.


That 3kWh would be better off stored directly in a battery than made into h2. It is also less efficient than a BEV. Even Tesla, as a relatively inefficenct model S, gets ~100mpge whereas a toyota mirai FCEV struggles to get 56mpge, which can be easily beaten in a fossil fuel car.




Hydrogen does not work. It only has one advantage over BEVs, range. But when you have similar range in a BEV and can charge at home, H2 is a nonsense.

If it's renewable energy it's a different game

1kg of hydrogen = 33kWh of energy

Quote me in 10 years time

caff

Mike9832 wrote: »

If it's renewable energy it's a different game

1kg of hydrogen = 33kWh of energy

Quote me in 10 years time

Makes as much sense as ammonia combustion hybrids

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

If it's renewable energy it's a different game

1kg of hydrogen = 33kWh of energy

Quote me in 10 years time

That's 1 kg though, energy is measured in kWh.
That still doesnt address the 3:1 ratio, even if it's renewable energy it still makes more sense to use the energy directly (or store till it can be used) rather than burning 66% of it for nothing.


In 10 years we'll all be driving petrol and diesel cars with probably 15% BEV/PHEV and no hydrogen.

pdpmur

Mike9832 wrote: »

It will catch on

For the benefit of us slow learners at the back, where exactly on the diagram is the hydrogen-fuelled EV?

ELM327

pdpmur wrote: »

For the benefit of us slow learners at the back, where exactly on the diagram is the hydrogen-fuelled EV?

The box using the energy at the bottom is the fuel cell in the FCEV, the pylon represents the energy to the FCEV

JPA

Electricity to make hydrogen to make electricity.
Wouldn't get past dragons den.

unkel

JPA wrote: »

Electricity to make hydrogen to make electricity.
Wouldn't get past dragons den.

Oh it would. Efficiency really isn't hugely important if you are talking about storing electricity that was generated "for free"

In a decade or so we should have so much overproduction from renewables (at times) that we need to store it somewhere. That somewhere can be a lot of different things, like:

1. store in somebody elses grid (interconnector), we can borrow back later when we are short
2. store in the batteries of EVs attached to the grid or in home attached batteries or in grid attached batteries
3. store in a pumped reservoir
4. store in hydrogen

It is unclear yet how it will pan out, that depends in developments in costs of the different methods

What is clear is that hydrogen will never be used commercially on a large scale for cars globally. Maybe locally because of market distorting subsidies in some countries like Japan, but that's about it

Hellrazer

If Dacia get their Duster to the market in 2020 it will be a serious game changer. Especially if its as affordable as they are hoping.

Markcheese

But renewable energy isn't free ,there's a whacking great capital cost ...and while yes there are times when there's an excess of wind power (In irelands case) ,will it be worth having a hydrogen production plant sitting there waiting for cheap wind energy ..
Especially if smart meters, grid level storage and electric cars all reduce to the amount of excess off peak production ,

unkel

Hellrazer wrote: »

If Dacia get their Duster to the market in 2020 it will be a serious game changer. Especially if its as affordable as they are hoping.

If there is any chance of a Dacia Duster EV hitting the market this year, then that car deserves its own thread. Would you do the honours of starting one?

NIMAN

unkel wrote: »

If there is any chance of a Dacia Duster EV hitting the market this year, then that car deserves its own thread. Would you do the honours of starting one?

could be a game changer if priced right.

unkel

Markcheese wrote: »

will it be worth having a hydrogen production plant sitting there waiting for cheap wind energy ..
Especially if smart meters, grid level storage and electric cars all reduce to the amount of excess off peak production ,

Personally I'd be in favour of all the other methods of storage and only to produce hydrogen as a last resort.
But like I said, we don't know. Depends on how the costs of the different storage methods pan out.

Mike9832

JPA wrote: »

Electricity to make hydrogen to make electricity.
Wouldn't get past dragons den.

Not really

If it's renewable through electrolysis such as solar,wind,hydro power etc, first part is kinda redundant, it's hydrogen to electricty in a way

Burning it produces water, burning petrol produces..

Even something simple like a charging network is some headache when numbers increase

Petrol/Hydrogen takes 3 minutes to fill compared to 30 mins charging an EV

A motorway petrol station with say 12 petrol pumps will need about 120 150kW chargers to get the same throughput of cars or 18mW sub station ( same size as something that supplies electric to 50,000 houses )

Say we have 1 million electric cars on the road in Ireland in 2030 and only 5% need to use ( 50,000 ) fast chargers on busiest travel day of the year like Dec 21st for 30 minute sessions

Norway for example has 3000 fast chargers and 250,000 EV's and they have serious serious queues on busy days, 70% of fast chargers in cities have queues day to day, loads of complaints about chargers being down

Even here we have what 6000 EV's on the road and nearly 1300 charge points across the country, guessing 200 50kW fast chargers and it's supposedly a shambles of a network going by comments here

How the **** are we gonna manage 1 million EV's, if its a shambles with only 6000 EV's on the road?