Privacy/Security concerns with modern cars

Johnboy1951

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a30260730/chevy-volt-hacked-data-collection/

It's easy to count up the benefits to connected cars. From using your phone to warm up the cabin on a winter day to setting speed limits for the new teenage drivers in your household, telematics can make life a bit easier. But you're probably not surprised to hear that these upsides come with some potential downsides as well.

Fowler had someone hack into the Volt. He discovered that the car was recording details about where the car was driven and parked, call logs, identification information for his phone and contact information from his phone, "right down to people's address, emails and even photos."

That is very scary!

unkel

Not as scary as Google and Amazon staff (humans) listening in to your private conversations in your home!

eddhorse

Yep all companies seem to do it now, all wrapped up in terms and conditions.
Im not saying its correct and also dont see why that car needs access to your phone photos.

liamog

Fowler had someone hack into the Volt. He discovered that the car was recording details about where the car was driven and parked, call logs, identification information for his phone and contact information from his phone, "right down to people's address, emails and even photos."

Sensationalist BS, guy syncs phone with car and wonders why contact information is now stored in car.

Soarer

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

Sensationalist BS, guy syncs phone with car and wonders why contact information is now stored in car.

Hardly, when what happens to that stored information is not stated clearly.
It is unknown, according to the article, how much of that info is sent to the manufacturer, or how that manufacturer deals with it.

Definitely a lot of info is sent about the cars performance etc etc ..... but what about the private data from the phone sync?

Perhaps more important, though, Fowler wanted to see just how much information GM is getting from its connected cars. It's one thing for your car to store your favorite Starbucks in the nav system. It's another if the car company collects that information. The reporter made it clear that this is not a Volt thing, or a Chevy thing; nearly all new cars now have connectivity, including onboard internet connections.

For now, exactly what information goes where is a bit of an unknown by anyone other than the automakers themselves. As Fowler writes, "My Chevy's dashboard didn't say what the car was recording. It wasn't in the owner's manual. There was no way to download it."

To figure this out, Fowler had someone hack into the Volt. He discovered that the car was recording details about where the car was driven and parked, call logs, identification information for his phone and contact information from his phone, "right down to people's address, emails and even photos."

IMO, that situation is unacceptable.

Just don't connect the phone to the car, if it asks for your contact details and photos just say no thanks' assuming you're allowed to do so, or is it the car wont start without it?

If people are happy to give out their info freely to avail of all the perks so be it, i wouldn't personally do it myself, but i think it's down to the individual to limit what they want to share.

Johnboy1951

Deleted User wrote: »

Just don't connect the phone to the car, if it asks for your contact details and photos just say no thanks' assuming you're allowed to do so, or is it the car wont start without it?

If people are happy to give out their info freely to avail of all the perks so be it, i wouldn't personally do it myself, but i think it's down to the individual to limit what they want to share.

According to the article it is not spelled out anywhere that the phone info can be uploaded to the manufacturer (or stated that it is not uploaded).

I have no problem at all IF the user is fully informed and then decides they do not care about their privacy.

liamog

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

According to the article it is not spelled out anywhere that the phone info can be uploaded to the manufacturer (or stated that it is not uploaded).

I have no problem at all IF the user is fully informed and then decides they do not care about their privacy.

There was also no evidence in the article that the phone information was sent to the manufacturer. Hence its just scaremongering rather than anything actually useful.

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

There was also no evidence in the article that the phone information was sent to the manufacturer. Hence its just scaremongering rather than anything actually useful.

The very fact that it was NOT mentioned at all, in any of the blurb available, leaves it open to abuse or not by the manufacturer.

That is not scaremongering ...... that is questioning what happens to the collected data, as it is known that a lot of other data is sent to the manufacturer.

What is there to indicate that the private data is not sent along with the rest?

Nothing ... according to the article!

liamog

Why would the car be collecting info on contacts and calls? Pretty obvious really, that's how the car/phone integration works. Did you ever stop and wonder how the car tells you who's calling, that's right folks it syncs your contacts. This isn't even modern tech, we had it on our 2007 Punto.

Take the tinfoil hat off, big auto is not interested in Johnboy1951s contact list.

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

Why would the car be collecting info on contacts and calls? Pretty obvious really, that's how the car/phone integration works. Did you ever stop and wonder how the car tells you who's calling, that's right folks it syncs your contacts. This isn't even modern tech, we had it on our 2007 Punto.

Take the tinfoil hat off, big auto is not interested in Johnboy1951s contact list.

Did your Punto communicate with home base/Fiat? No? Then I guess the data could never be sent from your car.

Hehehehehehehe ....... 'there are none so blind as those who will not see'.

A bit more healthy skepticism might have gone a long way some years ago when 'do no evil' Google and the likes of Facebook etc etc began to grab people's data.
You think they no longer want this data?
You think companies do not gather data and sell it to them?

Yeah, right!

liamog

Talk about jumping to a conclusion during an investigation.

1. Car has a telematics connection
2. Car phone integration requires access to contacts/phone logs.
...
3. OMG Chevrolet are stealing all my datas.

* Study shows no evidence that data was sent, but big corporation must be evil so whatevs, publish the scary article anyway.

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

Talk about jumping to a conclusion during an investigation.

1. Car has a telematics connection
2. Car phone integration requires access to contacts/phone logs.
...
3. OMG Chevrolet are stealing all my datas.

* Study shows no evidence that data was sent, but big corporation must be evil so whatevs, publish the scary article anyway.

The car stores data, both about the vehicle itself and about the user.
It transmits data to base.

Is it unreasonable to want to know what data is being transmitted? No

Is it unreasonable for the manufacturer not to tell the user what data is being transmitted? Yes

In the case of no information forthcoming from the manufacturer, is it unreasonable to be concerned about private data being shared? No

You need to awaken and not be so over-reactive, just because you have no concerns about your private data being shared without your explicit knowledge and permission.

Johnboy1951

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The car stores data, both about the vehicle itself and about the user.
It transmits data to base.

Is it unreasonable to want to know what data is being transmitted? No

Is it unreasonable for the manufacturer not to tell the user what data is being transmitted? Yes

In the case of no information forthcoming from the manufacturer, is it unreasonable to be concerned about private data being shared? No

You need to awaken and not be so over-reactive, just because you have no concerns about your private data being shared without your explicit knowledge and permission.

Well my leaf sends information about every single trip to Nissan if I hit OK on the screen after the power on. This information will allow me as a driver to monitor how much energy is used and will let Nissan to know how people typically use their cars to design better products for the drivers.

This information is a very small fraction of what my Android phone collected at the same time.

Not a big problem for me personally. If the Google/Nissan can make money with my data fair enough.

liamog

The car doesn't tell you it shares contact/phone information and so far absolutely zero evidence has been provided to show that it does.
You talk of being over-reactive, and yet the only one who has overreacted is the original article.

Come back when you've got evidence that the car in question is uploading to the manufacturer.

In my experience, where a car is uploading telematics, they have a legal disclaimer, here's an example from the Nissan Leaf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/4i4f3s/how_do_i_get_rid_of_this_message_every_time_i/

adunis

You know you can choose to not share anything right ?,
Your sexy smartphone then turns into a pseudo Nokia brick
All the lovely convenience features of your car turn into pretty pictures.
Now back to reality,who gives a f@£k if your normal everyday persons terribly unique and interesting lifestyle is shared ?,oh look this fella prefers supermacs to McDonald's
Again if you are for instance a secret agent you can choose not to leave a digital footprint.
In other news do you not think your information is already collected by traditional means or have you no bank a/c ,loan mortgage phone contract,television service,electricity,insurance ,PAYE status,children,driving licence,gone to school etc etc.

FFS

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

The car doesn't tell you it shares contact/phone information and so far absolutely zero evidence has been provided to show that it does.
You talk of being over-reactive, and yet the only one who has overreacted is the original article.

Come back when you've got evidence that the car in question is uploading to the manufacturer.

In my experience, where a car is uploading telematics, they have a legal disclaimer, here's an example from the Nissan Leaf.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/4i4f3s/how_do_i_get_rid_of_this_message_every_time_i/

So you reckon that because there is no announcement to the user that vehicle data is being uploaded, that there is no uploading at all from the vehicle?
That would make me wonder why data would be collected at all ...... and it is collected.

Of course it is also possible that this user is told that data is being uploaded, and the author deliberately omitted that fact, claiming only that details of the uploads were not accessible to the user.

Taking this least worse case ...... not being assured that no personal data held by the vehicle is uploaded will certainly give cause for speculation.
The manufacturer has access to the data in the car, and the capability to upload it to wherever they chose.

At minimum I would expect the user to be assured that data other than vehicle data, is not uploaded.

liamog

Maybe you should of posted this in the conspiracy theory section of boards.ie

Come back with evidence. For now i think the thread has run it's course.

Johnboy1951

liamog wrote: »

Maybe you should of posted this in the conspiracy theory section of boards.ie

Come back with evidence. For now i think the thread has run it's course.

The fact that your Nissan informed you, cannot be extrapolated to all makes and models of vehicle.

It is not a conspiracy theory, but a published article, which I have properly linked and commented on.
The contents should be of interest to those driving modern vehicles and especially electric vehicles.

liamog

Mod Note: Closing thread as OP cannot provide evidence of any malicious uploading of data, and its not related to EVs.