Skyscrapers ASAP.

Sam Quentin

When oh when are we gonna start building Skyscrapers and high rise apartments in Dublin? The City is busting at the seams,.. I think it's a no-brainer.

Winning_Stroke

They'll ruin the view of the chimneys though

The Tetrarch

Strangely, skyscraper is not a modern word.
There was a horse Skyscraper born in 1786.

Practically, the land in Dublin city is not suited to skyscrapers, although from Blackrock southwards for about seventy miles it is all granite and would suit. How about a few skyscrapers in Wicklow?

Wibbs

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Strangely, skyscraper is not a modern word.
There was a horse Skyscraper born in 1786.

IIRC it's a maritime term for the very top sail(s) on a sailing ship?

Markcheese

I've no major urge to see sky scrapers ,they're seriously expensive to build ,
But yeah ,buildings need to go up ... Nothing wrong with well planned ,well built towers 10 /15 storeys high ,
Even 3 or 4 storey blocks of apartments could up population density .. but doing a Celtic tiger thing of sticking them down the back of a housing estate ,way out in the burbs ,miles from anywhere ,with car transport only is daft...

facehugger99

Die Hard, The Towering Inferno, Skyscraper.

Just a small list of the types of scenarios Dublin has managed to avoid with it's sensible low-level planning strategy.

SEPT 23 1989

The Irish don't do well living up in the sky without a garden

the poor unfortunates in Ballymun had to turn to heroin to cope

wakka12

Well at least try to keep up with current affairs before giving out about it. 23 story capital dock has just opened, 17 story Exo nearly finished , three fifteen story towers at bolands quay nearing completion, two 22 story towers have recently been granted planning permission on Tara Street, with several more towers or similar of greater height proposed by Connolly station , the North Docks(45 stories) and a potential one by Hueston station now too. Happy now?

Speaking of which, that development in the North Docks featuring a 45 story element has now applied for planning in an SHD scheme with An Bord Pleanala. 999 residential units
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/306158.htm

Reviews and Books Galore

Hmmmm, I wonder how some of the disreputable areas of Dublin would behave if cooped in a skyscraper? :P

fonecrusher1

Sam Quentin wrote: »

When oh when are we gonna start building Skyscrapers and high rise apartments in Dublin? The City is busting at the seams,.. I think it's a no-brainer.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. Its the only way to be sure.

FFVII

Less people ftw


Fupping sick of looking at people everywhere

MrAbyss

I was living in Crumlin a while back when a developer proposed a - wait for it - a single 6 storey apartment block. The local NIMBYs were holding up signs with NO BALLYMUN HERE and THIS IS CRUMLIN NOT MANHATTAN.

These lunatics get the ear of the politicians. That's why.

MrAbyss

Places such as Phisborough should be filled with 40 floor apartment towers. Amazing that it isn't.

MrAbyss

wakka12 wrote: »

Speaking of which, that development in the North Docks featuring a 45 story element has now applied for planning in an SHD scheme with An Bord Pleanala. 999 residential units
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/306158.htm

Any other details on this?

Bobblehats

But if you scrape the sky you risk tearing it.... heaping more misery on us be realistic they are only for superheroes to stand on the corners of. Looking all epic

Outkast_IRE

A good few tall buildings going through the planning process successfully in Cork city at the moment, hopefully they end up being constructed.

beejee

Pointless.

Like going out to buy yet another bucket to fill when the problem is the water tap keeps flowing.

Build anything and it fills immediately, whether houses, apartments, skyscrapers, underwater domes, volcano hideouts.

Turn off the tap, THEN see where you can put all the water.

Backwards-arse thinking, and then people scratching their heads, "durp! Why is nothing changing despite our crap ideas?! Flerp!"

In all honesty, if there was zero movement of people in AND out of the country it would probably take decades to build sufficient good quality housing that doesn't cost 50%+ of your life earnings. Playing bloody games as usual

lawred2

beejee wrote: »

Pointless.

Like going out to buy yet another bucket to fill when the problem is the water tap keeps flowing.

Build anything and it fills immediately, whether houses, apartments, skyscrapers, underwater domes, volcano hideouts.

Turn off the tap, THEN see where you can put all the water.

Backwards-arse thinking, and then people scratching their heads, "durp! Why is nothing changing despite our crap ideas?! Flerp!"

In all honesty, if there was zero movement of people in AND out of the country it would probably take decades to build sufficient good quality housing that doesn't cost 50%+ of your life earnings. Playing bloody games as usual

immigrant thing right?

beejee

lawred2 wrote: »

immigrant thing right?

Numbers thing.

Beau Bennett

Because we would build Grenfell Towers and not Shards or Rockefellers

John Doe1

Dublin definitely needs to build up to alleviate the rental crisis.

Perhaps a designated area in the grand canal dock area rather than in the middle of the city centre.

I come from a working class background but it is ridiculous that the ones who are contributing least to the tax base are the ones who stall all the plans to build upwards.

pablo128

Have we enough fire engines in the city which are equipped to deal with fires in high rise buildings?

lawred2

pablo128 wrote: »

Have we enough fire engines in the city which are equipped to deal with fires in high rise buildings?

fire engines don't really deal with high rise fires - the building's are supposed to be constructed with fire proofing/dampening and pipework to allow firefighters to fight the fires internally

andekwarhola

It's Ireland.

They will eventually get the green light and end up being too small for families unless they cost a fortune

And give developers the chance to build shoddy apartments on a grander scale.

And the larger scale of services required will just ensure that the management companies will eventually become insolvent as many Irish people simply don't like paying for stuff.

Well, that's off my chest anyway.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

immigrant thing right?

Nope, babies :pac:

suicide_circus

well we once had a highrise development in Ballymun which didnt go particularly well so now we can never ever try again

wakka12

John Doe1 wrote: »

Dublin definitely needs to build up to alleviate the rental crisis.

Perhaps a designated area in the grand canal dock area rather than in the middle of the city centre.

I come from a working class background but it is ridiculous that the ones who are contributing least to the tax base are the ones who stall all the plans to build upwards.

Do youve any evident to support that? Nimbyism is just as strong in wealthy communities, I find

Ready4Boarding

A lot of people over-estimate the efficiency of high-rise. Because of the need for space around towers (e.g. Ballymun), five or six storey terracing like is widespread in Berlin can be just as efficient and arguably much better on a social level.

The_Brood

Dublin is easily the most overpopulated city with the least amount of public transportation and non-alcohol related commodities, or commodities open past the time people leave work, I have ever seen. I truly cannot fathom how the government does not see this as a problem.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

fire engines don't really deal with high rise fires - the building's are supposed to be constructed with fire proofing/dampening and pipework to allow firefighters to fight the fires internally

Keywords highlighted. They first thing needed would be a beefed up “building control” regime.

Larbre34

The_Brood wrote: »

Dublin is easily the most overpopulated city with the least amount of public transportation and non-alcohol related commodities, or commodities open past the time people leave work, I have ever seen. I truly cannot fathom how the government does not see this as a problem.

Lol have you ever been elsewhere, cos I have and it simply isn't.

FFVII

John Doe1 wrote: »

I come from a working class background but it is ridiculous that the ones who are contributing least to the tax base are the ones who stall all the plans to build upwards.

What's all this tax base sh1t on here lately??

Dublin pays more than the rest Yadda

You earn more so your voice is louder/counts for 2??

wakka12

The_Brood wrote: »

Dublin is easily the most overpopulated city with the least amount of public transportation and non-alcohol related commodities, or commodities open past the time people leave work, I have ever seen. I truly cannot fathom how the government does not see this as a problem.

Have you been abroad yet? Dublin is not over populated. And the public transport while lacking is not awful for the size of it's population, which is not particularly dense. You'll have to explain what 'commodities' youre talking about, Dublin seems more virbant at nighttime than most European cities I've visited, and I'm not just talking about bars..lots restaurants, cinemas, clubs across the city are buzzing every day of the week. I also believe the government does think the transport and sorting out population/housing in Dublin are a problem, nighttime acitvities for non drinkers are not a pertinent issue on the part of the government I would say, what are thye supposed to do about that? Force private business owners to become 24/7 cafes?

Vita nova

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

A lot of people over-estimate the efficiency of high-rise. Because of the need for space around towers (e.g. Ballymun), five or six storey terracing like is widespread in Berlin can be just as efficient and arguably much better on a social level.

On the other hand building skyscrapers while complying with strict daylight design rules creates open spaces in front of the skyscrapers where plazas, restaurant terraces, art installations etc. can be placed and these can give an area a cosmopolitan feel.

I do however agree with your point that mid-rise apartment blocks can provide a similar density to high-rise buildings in countries where daylight design rules are strict.

MrAbyss

suicide_circus wrote: »

well we once had a highrise development in Ballymun which didnt go particularly well so now we can never ever try again

Ballymun was a remarkable success and everyone loved living there until the Corporation said 'let them rot'.

Up until the mid 70s nothing wrong with the place

MrAbyss

The_Brood wrote: »

Dublin is easily the most overpopulated city with the least amount of public transportation and non-alcohol related commodities, or commodities open past the time people leave work, I have ever seen. I truly cannot fathom how the government does not see this as a problem.

I suggest you do some travelling.

Graces7

Same as happened in Sheffield and it got so bad they had to demolish the high rise blocks. Such intensive occupation concentrates bad elements.

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Hmmmm, I wonder how some of the disreputable areas of Dublin would behave if cooped in a skyscraper? :P

MrAbyss

Markcheese wrote: »

I've no major urge to see sky scrapers ,they're seriously expensive to build

Is it coming out of your pocket money?

The_Brood

wakka12 wrote: »

Have you been abroad yet? Dublin is not over populated. And the public transport while lacking is not awful for the size of it's population, which is not particularly dense. You'll have to explain what 'commodities' youre talking about, Dublin seems more virbant at nighttime than most European cities I've visited, and I'm not just talking about bars..lots restaurants, cinemas, clubs across the city are buzzing every day of the week. I also believe the government does think the transport and sorting out population/housing in Dublin are a problem, nighttime acitvities for non drinkers are not a pertinent issue on the part of the government I would say, what are thye supposed to do about that? Force private business owners to become 24/7 cafes?

What exactly are the transport options in Dublin? Dublin Bus is atrocious might as well not exist, for many reasons. No underground metro. Luas covers an insanely narrow stretch of land. And the overpopulation is the reason why there is a housing and rental crisis. Not enough places for people to live.

I have no idea how you have formed these views, but they are precisely the reason the government does nothing and so many of us workers are suffering badly.

wakka12

Vita nova wrote: »

On the other hand building skyscrapers while complying with strict daylight design rules creates open spaces in front of the skyscrapers where plazas, restaurant terraces, art installations etc. can be placed and these can give an area a cosmopolitan feel.

I do however agree with your point that mid-rise apartment blocks can provide a similar density to high-rise buildings in countries where daylight design rules are strict.

And..? Plenty of plazas, terraces,restaurants and art in Paris, Rome, Copenhagen and dozens of other entirely mid rise cities throughout europe

wakka12

The_Brood wrote: »

What exactly are the transport options in Dublin? Dublin Bus is atrocious might as well not exist, for many reasons. No underground metro. Luas covers an insanely narrow stretch of land. And the overpopulation is the reason why there is a housing and rental crisis. Not enough places for people to live.

I have no idea how you have formed these views, but they are precisely the reason the government does nothing and so many of us workers are suffering badly.

Well then we have a different experiences of Dublin Bus. I use it daily and the service is fine for me, I live in Dublin 6. It's always on time for me and comes every 15 mins. The Dart, and Green and Red Line Luas cover the majority of the south side of the city and the city centre so can't agree that thats a very narrow part, and other than for an hour or so at rush hour when it gets uncomfortably squishy they are well run services.

Ready4Boarding

Vita nova wrote: »

On the other hand building skyscrapers while complying with strict daylight design rules creates open spaces in front of the skyscrapers where plazas, restaurant terraces, art installations etc. can be placed and these can give an area a cosmopolitan feel.

I do however agree with your point that mid-rise apartment blocks can provide a similar density to high-rise buildings in countries where daylight design rules are strict.

In theory, anyway. They can just as easily be grey, lifeless expanses, especially in financial districts.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Same as happened in Sheffield and it got so bad they had to demolish the high rise blocks. Such intensive occupation concentrates bad elements.

Ahh, well, just because it didn't work before in the UK, then we cannot take the concept and improve on it?

Modern apartment blocks are a far different thing from the attempts in the Uk which just encouraged Ghettos.

Consider six towers, each 24 floors, with 6 apartments to a floor. Gardens, fitness area, shops within the boundaries of the wall enclosing the complex. Maintenance crew, cleaners, and security paid from the rents. Police station within walking distance of the complex, along with access to the Luas or whatever rail link is available. A properly planned, and maintained complex.

It boggles my mind that Asian nations can build and run decent (not perfect nor expensive) apartment towers, but the Irish won't/can't.

rossie1977

suicide_circus wrote: »

well we once had a highrise development in Ballymun which didnt go particularly well so now we can never ever try again

Clearly no difference between something like this


And this

whisky_galore

rossie1977 wrote: »

Clearly no difference between something like this


And this

Provide fück all in terms of facilities and maintenance and the outcome of the second building will be the same as the one in the first picture, no matter how fancy it it.

realitykeeper

Sam Quentin wrote: »

When oh when are we gonna start building Skyscrapers and high rise apartments in Dublin? The City is busting at the seams,.. I think it's a no-brainer.

A big part of the problem is that west Brit types can`t stand the thought of demolishing memories of the colonialism. Consequently, we drive for hours each morning and destroy the polar ice caps instead.

Hector Savage

Sam Quentin wrote: »

When oh when are we gonna start building Skyscrapers and high rise apartments in Dublin? The City is busting at the seams,.. I think it's a no-brainer.

They'll set aside 3 Billion for the project - to be completed by 2025 ... it won't be completed till 2035 and will cost 30 billion.

a few years later they'll discover shoddy workmanship and they'll have to be vacated and declared too dangerous for living in.

Meanwhile the fat cat politicians will be retired raking in 500k in pensions.

Ready4Boarding

realitykeeper wrote: »

A big part of the problem is that west Brit types can`t stand the thought of demolishing memories of the colonialism. Consequently, we drive for hours each morning and destroy the polar ice caps instead.

Surely - surely - you don’t believe that nostalgia for pre-Independence is causing people to oppose the building of high-rise?

whisky_galore

realitykeeper wrote: »

A big part of the problem is that west Brit types can`t stand the thought of demolishing memories of the colonialism. Consequently, we drive for hours each morning and destroy the polar ice caps instead.

We drive because we ripped up all the transport infrastructure that... guess who... installed?

wakka12

It is an exaggeration that we ripped up some amazing transport net work

It was an (admittedly extensive) system of slow moving trolleys built to support a city with a population of 300k or so.Dublin is what 3 or 4 times larger in size and population now. It would have to have been completely ripped up and modernised regardless in order to move people in and out of the city centre at a speed that we expect today. If it had survived it would just be a tourist attraction like the trolleys in Lisbon and San fransisco completely separate from the actual functioning and effective modern transport network. Most of the old lines left behind by them actually allowed for much quicker and cheaper development of the luas lines and dart. So if the trolleys had survived theyd probably be protected now and we'd have a much worse transport system

Ready4Boarding

wakka12 wrote: »

It is an exaggeration that we ripped up some amazing transport net work

It was an (admittedly extensive) system of slow moving trolleys built to support a city with a population of 300k or so.Dublin is what 3 or 4 times larger in size and population now. It would have to have been completely ripped up and modernised regardless in order to move people in and out of the city centre at a speed that we expect today. If it had survived it would just be a tourist attraction like the trolleys in Lisbon and San fransisco completely separate from the actual functioning and effective modern transport network. Most of the old lines left behind by them actually allowed for much quicker and cheaper development of the luas lines and dart. So if the trolleys had survived theyd probably be protected now and we'd have a much worse transport system

Yeah, London ripped up its trams too in favour of buses.