Referee abuse

Shelflife

Seems to me that its getting worse.

A friend of mine reffing a game today was roared at that he was Fu#king useless and hadnt a clue ! The same ref is a very good ref and highly thought of by his peers.

What possesses people to think that they can hurl abuse constantly at volunteers who travel long distances and give of their time freely.

Would you should something like that at one of your own players ? or an opposition player ? or one of the coaches ?

Im a ref myself and was being assessed a few weeks ago, after the game He told me I had a good game and was very happy with my performance. He said he couldnt believe the abuse being hurled in my direction and he said in every case I had got the decision right and he said he knew a lot of these people were long time rugby supporters of the club.

Im not talking about ahh cmon ref theyre offside or YC ref ! Im talking about when they call you a cheat (ref bothsides Ref) or your fu#kn useless. When youre getting that in every game from both sets of supporters it does wear you down. Of course they never say it to you in the clubhouse afterwards only happy to shout it from the safety of the crowd.

So what is it that makes people think that just because your a ref that they can hurl abuse at you and its acceptable ?

molloyjh

Shelflife wrote: »

Seems to me that its getting worse.

A friend of mine reffing a game today was roared at that he was Fu#king useless and hadnt a clue ! The same ref is a very good ref and highly thought of by his peers.

What possesses people to think that they can hurl abuse constantly at volunteers who travel long distances and give of their time freely.

Would you should something like that at one of your own players ? or an opposition player ? or one of the coaches ?

Im a ref myself and was being assessed a few weeks ago, after the game He told me I had a good game and was very happy with my performance. He said he couldnt believe the abuse being hurled in my direction and he said in every case I had got the decision right and he said he knew a lot of these people were long time rugby supporters of the club.

Im not talking about ahh cmon ref theyre offside or YC ref ! Im talking about when they call you a cheat (ref bothsides Ref) or your fu#kn useless. When youre getting that in every game from both sets of supporters it does wear you down. Of course they never say it to you in the clubhouse afterwards only happy to shout it from the safety of the crowd.

So what is it that makes people think that just because your a ref that they can hurl abuse at you and its acceptable ?

They arent thinking. Thats the problem. They are far too engrossed in the game and involved in it to see it rationally. The lack of thought continues on after the abuse is uttered. I guarantee you most dont really remember any if what they said. Heat of the moment with absolutely no self awareness. It's awful to listen to even as a spectator.

Steve

If it's a player abusing the ref then he has several options.

Award a penalty against the abuser.

Card them.

Give a 10 meter advantage against them.

Tell me how

Shelflife wrote: »

Seems to me that its getting worse.

A friend of mine reffing a game today was roared at that he was Fu#king useless and hadnt a clue ! The same ref is a very good ref and highly thought of by his peers.

What possesses people to think that they can hurl abuse constantly at volunteers who travel long distances and give of their time freely.

Would you should something like that at one of your own players ? or an opposition player ? or one of the coaches ?

Im a ref myself and was being assessed a few weeks ago, after the game He told me I had a good game and was very happy with my performance. He said he couldnt believe the abuse being hurled in my direction and he said in every case I had got the decision right and he said he knew a lot of these people were long time rugby supporters of the club.

Im not talking about ahh cmon ref theyre offside or YC ref ! Im talking about when they call you a cheat (ref bothsides Ref) or your fu#kn useless. When youre getting that in every game from both sets of supporters it does wear you down. Of course they never say it to you in the clubhouse afterwards only happy to shout it from the safety of the crowd.

So what is it that makes people think that just because your a ref that they can hurl abuse at you and its acceptable ?

I'm not sure if reffing is for you if you are surprised that this occurs. I completely disagree with it but, unfortunately, it is very common place.
I am surprised to see this posted in the rugby forum as I understood that there still largely was respect for the ref in that sport.

People become illogical with subjective bias depending on how their team is doing or what is riding on the game, or parents who are especially keen that their child is successful so as to gain opportunities with more senior or country teams.

Be thankful though that they don't say it in the clubhouse, in GAA and soccer there have been stories of amateur referees being attacked and assaulted after games.

punisher5112

Dealing with numpties to be honest, they believe they are right no matter what....

Most of the time best not even giving an answer and let it one ear out the other....

Wouldn't let it fester inside and put it down that they are the absolute fool.

Squidgy Black

Steve wrote: »

If it's a player abusing the ref then he has several options.

Award a penalty against the abuser.

Card them.

Give a 10 meter advantage against them.

Most of the time it's some clown on the sideline.

It's the same across all sports these days. There's always some muppet on the sidelines who for some reason gets a kick out of screaming abuse at the ref, and the scary thing is it happens quite often at underage games too.

Tell me how

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Most of the time it's some clown on the sideline.

It's the same across all sports these days. There's always some muppet on the sidelines who for some reason gets a kick out of screaming abuse at the ref, and the scary thing is it happens quite often at underage games too.

Underage games have gotten very unruly by all accounts. I think I read about several games in the DDSL being called off because of unruly behaviour.

It wasn't just aimed at referees either but at players on both teams. That lead to trials of silent matches where no shouting from the sidelines is permitted.

Steve

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Most of the time it's some clown on the sideline.

It's the same across all sports these days. There's always some muppet on the sidelines who for some reason gets a kick out of screaming abuse at the ref, and the scary thing is it happens quite often at underage games too.

Sounds a bit like being a mod here tbh.

I've had crap flung at me from the sidelines for years, just need to stay focused on the job at hand.

Refs get it wrong the odd time, and when you've 40k people booing at you (like in Landsdown last night) I can't imagine what was going through his head.. it certainly wasn't arrogance or condescension, more likely 'oh fcuk'.

The people on the sidelines don't matter, and a good ref knows that. Their job is to be fair, impartial, and control the game.

Zzippy

I reffed GAA for a few years from the age of 15 to about 21, so quite a while ago. You develop a thick skin but it is quite intimidating to have older adults roaring at young referees just learning their "trade" so to speak. If refs were allowed to stop games the first time it happened, and blow it up altogether if it happened again you would soon see a change IMO. There should be zero tolerance for ref abuse.

PCeeeee

I played both soccer and Gaelic. From what I've seen of rugby both amateur and pro ye are light years ahead. Some of the reffing in the two aforementioned sports is diabolical which is no excuse for the abuse.

But it's a vicious circle. Competent, interested, knowledgeable people will just not volunteer their time to be disrespected and abused (by morons most of the time). Leading to worse and worse officiating.

Rugby, rightly, is lauded for the respect shown to officials. If grassroots rugby people feel that's changing then please do something about it now.

Just a view from the outside.

Shelflife

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm not sure if reffing is for you if you are surprised that this occurs. I completely disagree with it but, unfortunately, it is very common place.
I am surprised to see this posted in the rugby forum as I understood that there still largely was respect for the ref in that sport.

People become illogical with subjective bias depending on how their team is doing or what is riding on the game, or parents who are especially keen that their child is successful so as to gain opportunities with more senior or country teams.

Be thankful though that they don't say it in the clubhouse, in GAA and soccer there have been stories of amateur referees being attacked and assaulted after games.

Ive been a ref for nearly 10 years now so Id say that its for me. Usually its just white noise that you hear/block out from the sidelines and god knows the crowds arent big. But from time to time you will hear something nasty from the sidelines.

Yes we know that its usually fools that shout the loudest but it can still give you that sinking feeling in your stomach when you hear it.

I genuinely think that the club crowds have gotten worse, that they feel they have a right to shout abuse at you, sometimes its hard ignore it when they are literally 6 feet away from you, its something thats creeping in more and more and its really beginning to leave its mark on the game.

The average journey for me is a 2 hour round trip, shortest is an hour longest is 3 1/2hours, I ref to a J1A level and I worked hard to get to that level and to remain at that level, so its not something that I/we take lightly.

The drop out rate on new refs is high and many of the older refs are packing it in earlier and one of the reasons is abuse, one ref told me he cant bring any of his family to the games anymore as they just get upset with the bile thats directed at him while hes out there.

c.p.w.g.w

Don't think it's helped by the rules.

Watched the Munster & Leinster games at the weekend. It was like both referees had different rule books.

The breakdown is one of the messiest areas along with scrum time

The Lost Sheep

Shelflife wrote: »

Seems to me that its getting worse.

A friend of mine reffing a game today was roared at that he was Fu#king useless and hadnt a clue ! The same ref is a very good ref and highly thought of by his peers.

What possesses people to think that they can hurl abuse constantly at volunteers who travel long distances and give of their time freely.

Would you should something like that at one of your own players? or an opposition player? or one of the coaches:cool:?

Im a ref myself and was being assessed a few weeks ago, after the game He told me I had a good game and was very happy with my performance. He said he couldnt believe the abuse being hurled in my direction and he said in every case I had got the decision right and he said he knew a lot of these people were long time rugby supporters of the club.

Im not talking about ahh cmon ref theyre offside or YC ref ! Im talking about when they call you a cheat (ref bothsides Ref) or your fu#kn useless. When youre getting that in every game from both sets of supporters it does wear you down. Of course they never say it to you in the clubhouse afterwards only happy to shout it from the safety of the crowd.

So what is it that makes people think that just because your a ref that they can hurl abuse at you and its acceptable ?

Is happening a bit more than before.
I think we as refs need to report more on it. Match reports to include specific sections about abuse..

I dont think we can say it's people new to sport who dont exactly know traditions of rugby because plenty of abuse comes from people with long involvement in the sport.

molloyjh wrote: »

They arent thinking. Thats the problem. They are far too engrossed in the game and involved in it to see it rationally. The lack of thought continues on after the abuse is uttered. I guarantee you most dont really remember any if what they said. Heat of the moment with absolutely no self awareness. It's awful to listen to even as a spectator.

it needs people within clubs/schools wherever to challenge their own members to an extent and

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm not sure if reffing is for you if you are surprised that this occurs. I completely disagree with it but, unfortunately, it is very common place.
I am surprised to see this posted in the rugby forum as I understood that there still largely was respect for the ref in that sport.

People become illogical with subjective bias depending on how their team is doing or what is riding on the game, or parents who are especially keen that their child is successful so as to gain opportunities with more senior or country teams.

Be thankful though that they don't say it in the clubhouse, in GAA and soccer there have been stories of amateur referees being attacked and assaulted after games.

that's nonsense and I've seen shelf life ref and they're excellent ref....
I dont see wht it should be a surprise this is in the rugby forum. It happens in rugby just much much less than in other sports.

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Most of the time it's some clown on the sideline.

It's the same across all sports these days. There's always some muppet on the sidelines who for some reason gets a kick out of screaming abuse at the ref, and the scary thing is it happens quite often at underage games too.

ref abuse happens more at underage as refs in general will be newer and less experienced so more likely to make mistakes.

PCeeeee wrote: »

I played both soccer and Gaelic. From what I've seen of rugby both amateur and pro ye are light years ahead. Some of the reffing in the two aforementioned sports is diabolical which is no excuse for the abuse.

But it's a vicious circle. Competent, interested, knowledgeable people will just not volunteer their time to be disrespected and abused (by morons most of the time). Leading to worse and worse officiating.

Rugby, rightly, is lauded for the respect shown to officials. If grassroots rugby people feel that's changing then please do something about it now.

Just a view from the outside.

It has got slightly worse but respect still there from vast vast majority
I wouldnt call reffing in other sports diabolical but level of on going training they receive isnt a patch on rugby. Refs in rugby who are full association members get monthly meetings on the laws from a ref who's officiated at the very top levels of the sport. Get regular assessments/games where they are coached by experienced ref who will give them advice on what theyve been doing well and what they need to improve on.

Shefwedfan

People are gobs**ts

If you turned around and walked up to them 99% of them would turn on their heel and walk away....problem is 1% are also lunatics as well as gobsh**ts

Really unless other people in the crowd turn around and tell them to shut up it will continue

People grow up watching ref get abuse, think its funny and do it. Like the US soccer fans trying to have a riot and shouting abuse at each other in English accents.....idiots

Tell me how

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

that's nonsense and I've seen shelf life ref and they're excellent ref....
I dont see wht it should be a surprise this is in the rugby forum. It happens in rugby just much much less than in other sports.

Oh, I take it all back then......

You're definitely a fair and impartial observer. Whether or not they truly are an excellent ref has no bearing on my point. Shelf life responded to it more appropriately.

evil_seed

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Don't think it's helped by the rules.

Watched the Munster & Leinster games at the weekend. It was like both referees had different rule books.

The breakdown is one of the messiest areas along with scrum time

1. Laws not rules.
2. You're point is very valid. The refs are allowed their own interpretation of the laws. Which is daft as it's all there in black and white.

Shelflife

evil_seed wrote: »

1. Laws not rules.
2. You're point is very valid. The refs are allowed their own interpretation of the laws. Which is daft as it's all there in black and white.

With respect , I understand your the point your making. That still doesn’t give anyone the right to shout abuse at a referee. I’m not talking about the professional game here, I’m talking about volunteers who give up their whole day nearly to facilitate a game between two clubs.

Btw just because you don’t get the decision you wanted, doesn’t mean that the decision is wrong.

connemara man

It is getting worse TBH people are going after the person not the decision.

It doesn't matter what level hurling personal abuse at a ref isn't in IMO.

kooga

is your friend a member of a society or association e.g. ARLB, MAR etc.

If so for future reference get the persons details and fill in a ref abuse form and forward to Local hon secretary for warding to the branch

Shelflife

kooga wrote: »

is your friend a member of a society or association e.g. ARLB, MAR etc.

If so for future reference get the persons details and fill in a ref abuse form and forward to Local hon secretary for warding to the branch

Both of us are members, the problem is youre not going to know the name of the few individuals that are hurling abuse at you. Clubs need to step up and do more than put up a sign saying respect the officials .

arsebiscuits1

For me, it has to come from clubs. There have been a few I've heard of who have pledged to do something about it and half stuck to it.

There needs to be accountability. Coaches report it to committees and to presidents and sanction those who do it. I know it sounds wishy washy in principal but there are clubs out there who are serious about refs not getting abuse

arsebiscuits1

Side note.

I played a game a few years back and the poor ref totally lost control of it. Neither team did themselves much favours but they were riled up by a pretty rowdy crowd on the touch line. A load of guys came down and were having drinks on the touch line.

Nothing overly bad was said that I heard but it clearly got the ref. He penalised the home team for something their supporters said on the touchline.

Coach asked for clarity and the ref was adamant that until he got the supporters (about 40 of them) to be quiet he would continue to penalise the home team. I felt bad for the ref. But it was strange logic

ClanofLams

Outright abuse is still relatively rare, as far as I can see, though has increased from being non existent, but the amount of one eyed supporters who dispute literally every call the referee makes against their team is increasing and very annoying. It’s worse at pro games but has even seeped into club scene.

vintagecosmos

I was playing junior rugby in a club in Wicklow a few years ago. The ref was abused constantly on the sideline by the home team. Awful derogatory and rude slurs for 80min. As the visiting team we felt terrible for him. And to make it worse, his wife and child had come out to watch him ref and had to listen to him been called a "c*nt" for 80 mins. Disgusting stuff.

Zzippy

vintagecosmos wrote: »

I was playing junior rugby in a club in Wicklow a few years ago. The ref was abused constantly on the sideline by the home team. Awful derogatory and rude slurs for 80min. As the visiting team we felt terrible for him. And to make it worse, his wife and child had come out to watch him ref and had to listen to him been called a "c*nt" for 80 mins. Disgusting stuff.

They're not known for their respect for referees in Wicklow. He could count himself lucky he wasn't put in the boot of a car! :rolleyes: :pac:

Tim Robbins

Shelflife wrote: »

Seems to me that its getting worse.

A friend of mine reffing a game today was roared at that he was Fu#king useless and hadnt a clue ! The same ref is a very good ref and highly thought of by his peers.

What possesses people to think that they can hurl abuse constantly at volunteers who travel long distances and give of their time freely.

Would you should something like that at one of your own players ? or an opposition player ? or one of the coaches ?

Im a ref myself and was being assessed a few weeks ago, after the game He told me I had a good game and was very happy with my performance. He said he couldnt believe the abuse being hurled in my direction and he said in every case I had got the decision right and he said he knew a lot of these people were long time rugby supporters of the club.

Im not talking about ahh cmon ref theyre offside or YC ref ! Im talking about when they call you a cheat (ref bothsides Ref) or your fu#kn useless. When youre getting that in every game from both sets of supporters it does wear you down. Of course they never say it to you in the clubhouse afterwards only happy to shout it from the safety of the crowd.

So what is it that makes people think that just because your a ref that they can hurl abuse at you and its acceptable ?

I am also a Ref.
Firstly, I am very sorry to hear you had bad experiences. You should report them back up to the branch and they will follow up and resolve.

Secondly, you are right to differentiate between the different types of verbals. There are some stupid ones which you can just tune out of and others which you should not have to take. So, if it is bad, stop the game and tell the offender they have to leave the ground.

Thirdly, there are lots of people who will help you here. Get on to your area rep and some more senior refs.

Tim Robbins

I'm not a sports person at all. Mostly a bit of WWE I'd watch, but never really took an interest in 'real' sports. Have wandered into this thread from the main page of boards.

But I'm curious,

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So, if it is bad, stop the game and tell the offender they have to leave the ground.

Can you do that?

Surely if you can eject the person from the grounds, then that would be swift enough reason to prevent this from happening? Nobody will want to be seen as 'the one that had the game stopped until he left'?


I'd assume that part of the issue is that the ref is involved in watching the game, and moves around the field a lot, so if I shout something abusive at you, it's probably very tough to actually pinpoint that it was me that said it?

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am also a Ref.
Firstly, I am very sorry to hear you had bad experiences. You should report them back up to the branch and they will follow up and resolve.

Secondly, you are right to differentiate between the different types of verbals. There are some stupid ones which you can just tune out of and others which you should not have to take. So, if it is bad, stop the game and tell the offender they have to leave the ground.

Thirdly, there are lots of people who will help you here. Get on to your area rep and some more senior refs.

Tim not everyone has an area rep. They dont exist in most provinces but if bad enough it should be going straight to provincial level.
The laws cover the playing enclosure etc and while you can ask for name of someone giving you abuse where exactly does it state you can ask then to leave the ground as without any powers to do anything like that it's fairly easy to figure out what kind of response you will get if you try that

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd assume that part of the issue is that the ref is involved in watching the game, and moves around the field a lot, so if I shout something abusive at you, it's probably very tough to actually pinpoint that it was me that said it?

After a while when you nail the basics of reffing, things become easier to spot and knowing what to do is a bit easier. It becomes more enjoyable and addictive.

Zzippy

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tim not everyone has an area rep. They dont exist in most provinces but if bad enough it should be going straight to provincial level.
The laws cover the playing enclosure etc and while you can ask for name of someone giving you abuse where exactly does it state you can ask then to leave the ground as without any powers to do anything like that it's fairly easy to figure out what kind of response you will get if you try that

You might not have power to do that, but if I was still refereeing and got serious abuse I would seriously consider stopping the game until the offender was asked to stop or leave by his own team's coach/manager. The embarrassment alone of that would shut most people up. If the abuse continued I would seriously consider blowing up the game and refusing to continue. You're giving up your time to provide a service to the teams, you don't have to accept abuse as part of that.

BBDBB

Interesting debate so far, I agree with much of whats already been said

Can I also offer an opinion that its also down to the behaviour that goes on at the senior levels. I believe Ive noticed more and more players chirping in, demanding decisions of the ref (YC, penalty etc) and ignoring the requests to "go away" and leave the ref to chat to his touch judge. These are only minor things but they all suggest an erosion of the respect for the officials that has crept into the game, especially since the advent of professionalism.

Add to that the increasing popularity of the game, which means bigger, partisan crowds who feel more able to voice their dissenting views when they are amongst a big crowd. When those fans attend the smaller amateur matches some of them think its ok to carry on and abuse the ref there too.

If Im correct with the above I think the solution also has to come from the top of the game
Players need to be sanctioned earlier with the 10 metre march back, which rarely happens these days. I also urge that the time to do it is now before the standards of whats acceptable drift even further

Hands Like Flippers

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-45946368

Tim Robbins

BBDBB wrote: »

Add to that the increasing popularity of the game, which means bigger, partisan crowds who feel more able to voice their dissenting views when they are amongst a big crowd. When those fans attend the smaller amateur matches some of them think its ok to carry on and abuse the ref there too.

Professionalism as well. Everyone under more pressure to win.

BBDBB

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Professionalism as well. Everyone under more pressure to win.

When it’s the way you pay the mortgage and the mortgages of dozens of other people to then you make different decisions in order to win, hence bloodgate, and the way Saracens have tried to circumvent the rules re pay etc

Tim Robbins

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-45946368

Shouting something sexist should be a long - if not permanent - ban away from *all* Rugby matches. You just can't do that. Shocking.

joseywhales

Eject from ground, if they refuse, call off game, they won't refuse

sydthebeat

joseywhales wrote: »

Eject from ground, if they refuse, call off game, they won't refuse

I thought refs could only eject from the playing area?

Former Former

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-45946368

Jesus.

I mean, some idiot shouting abuse from the sideline is one thing but the conduct of the club is absolutely appalling. I suppose a larger fine ultimately hurts the ordinary members but it seems like they're getting away very lightly for some pretty bad conduct.

Tim Robbins

OP, do you have someone you can talk to about this? Reason is there are some very good professional and experienced people who I think could best help you.

joseywhales

sydthebeat wrote: »

I thought refs could only eject from the playing area?

I've seen that happen and the offending coach still yelled abuse from beyond the dead ball line. At the end of the day its amateur rugby and if the ref wants to call off the game he can, so he has more power than people seem to realise. I am not sure if I would be showing my face around my local club if I got an important game called off because I was abusing the referee.

Shelflife

Tim Robbins wrote: »

OP, do you have someone you can talk to about this? Reason is there are some very good professional and experienced people who I think could best help you.

Hi Tim, yes there are people we can talk to and we always chat amongst ourselves all the time. I would be one of the senior refs and my door is always open to other refs as well.

I can take it pretty well, I work in the service industry and have to deal with people on an ongoing basis so I have plenty of experience there.

My point really was that it seems to be more acceptable to shout abuse at a referee, just because hes a referee. It just seems to be taken for granted that we will turn up every week and accept it.

What im saying is that a ref thats thinking about packing it in (because if you are doing it right its a big commitment) will find their decision easier to make if they are being abused on a regular basis. The same with the novice ref, why should they give up their whole day just to be shouted at.

We are a rare breed and Ive no problem at all with criticism, we can all have bad days but if you wouldnt shout abuse at the coaches or the players then why would you shout it at the refs ?

Its becoming normalised, and those doing it think nothing of it, sure they dont really mean it , its only a bit of craic , letting off steam sure no harm done.

But there is harm being done, its slow and insidious and wears people down and you just get tired of it and it can be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Yeah_Right

I've seen refs in other sports halt matches until a spectator left the arena. I've been involved in matches at national championship level where it happened. I would definitely support a ref calling a halt to a match if they were getting personal abuse from the crowd. And I'd have no qualms telling a spectator to shut up or GTFO if they are were just being abusive.

Tim Robbins

Shelflife wrote: »

I would be one of the senior refs and my door is always open to other refs as well.

That's very decent of you and exactly what we need to be doing to ensure that the proliferation of abuse is dealt with. I think there are structures in place to deal with it and that really is also great to see.

I was watching an Under 12 soccer match recently and two managers were regularly abusing the Ref. After the game, the players did. It was pitiful.

You think you have two managers and a group of parents and that's what they are doing?

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I've seen refs in other sports halt matches until a spectator left the arena. I've been involved in matches at national championship level where it happened. I would definitely support a ref calling a halt to a match if they were getting personal abuse from the crowd. And I'd have no qualms telling a spectator to shut up or GTFO if they are were just being abusive.

I've done that myself but it depends on level as to ease at which you can do it to a degree.....

Tim Robbins wrote: »

That's very decent of you and exactly what we need to be doing to ensure that the proliferation of abuse is dealt with. I think there are structures in place to deal with it and that really is also great to see.

I was watching an Under 12 soccer match recently and two managers were regularly abusing the Ref. After the game, the players did. It was pitiful.

You think you have two managers and a group of parents and that's what they are doing?

I dont think we need the soccer comparison as it looks a bit like point scoring. They copy what they see the top people doing in the sport and when its accepted there then of course it will be similar at the lower levels

Hands Like Flippers

Former Former wrote: »

Jesus.

I mean, some idiot shouting abuse from the sideline is one thing but the conduct of the club is absolutely appalling. I suppose a larger fine ultimately hurts the ordinary members but it seems like they're getting away very lightly for some pretty bad conduct.

That's only one article on the saga. It was a big deal for quite a while. The club lost a lot of money as well as the fine etc.

Tim Robbins

Was just thinking about this again today. When I first started going to games in the 80s and probably all the way up the early noughties, people rarely shouted at the ref. I mean rarely. Now when you go to a match whether it be Ireland Leinster or AIL, people shout all sorts of stupid stuff at the ref. People are experts on off side, coming in from the side, you name it.

There was time people hadn't a clue who the ref even was. He was not the focus of attention or abuse or any commentary. He made decisions and people just got on with it.

So you are right, there has been a slow gradual trend towards abusing refs.

For me, this really is to do with the game going professional. It is now marketed as a bigger event to people so that people will engage more and spend more.

Before you'd make jokes about the wooden spoon in the old V nations. Now, if Ireland under perform in the World Cup, people get very angry.

The last time Ireland met New Zeland in the World Cup we were beaten by a similar score. But people weren't angry because we had scored a few tries and also were in awe of their play, especially Lomu.

BoardsMember

I think it might be worth differentiating between "Referee abuse" and people shouting things like "He's in from the side" or "They're all off-side". I wouldn't consider the latter to be referee abuse - people are offering their opinion :D
I dont see any big issue with this, it's part of being a supporter and has been for years. Back in the 80's you'd hear people shouting "he's over the top" or whatever, it's really not anything new.

Abusing, for me, is more when they are telling the referee he is something, i.e. blind, a biased so-and-so, telling him to f-off etc. I also don't think this is particularly new, maybe a little worse. If you ask people who played down in Limerick in the 80s/90s on teams from the pale, as players, and the ref, they would be getting horrendous abuse.