Considering a new Leaf 40, but am I missing something?

sekond

It looks like I will be in a position to buy a new car in the new year. I currently drive an ancient, but very reliable Toyota Corrolla hatchback, and have been looking at getting a new Leaf 40, but I'm wondering whether I should be looking at a different option.

Budget: not 100% sure at the moment, likely up to 30,000
Usage: mostly just a 10km round trip a couple of times a day. Weekends, 70km round trip occasionally. Very rarely might need to do a 300km round trip (mostly motorway driving), but while I'd be on a deadline to get where I am going, I'm rarely in a rush back, so would be able to stop for a charge if necessary.
I have off street parking, so will be able to fit a charge point.

Needs to be able to fit 2 adults/2 teens, and have a decent sized boot.

I like the size of my corrolla, and if there was a fully electric version of that, my decision would be long made! I don't want a huge car, but the Leaf looked like a good size.

This is likely the only time I will be in a position to buy a brand new car, and as I have had the corrolla for over 12 years, I expect I'll hold on to the new one for a long time (so depreciation/trade in value isn't really an issue).

Does the Leaf seem like the best option or should I be looking at something else for that budget?

nthclare

Just be careful in the minus 3's no point in turning over a new leaf

Lantus

I would first determine what you want your car to do before asking if any one model is best. Do you want to spend 30k on a car. Is that your budget or just what you'd need to spend to get a leaf. Don't think the 300km trip is feasible in an l40 though??? Not at motorway speed with heaters etc in winter. You'll be stopping at least once.

Edit, it's 150 there and 150 back. That's OK..

sekond

The 30k is my budget. I'm in a situation where, for various reasons, I will be in a position I am not likely to be in again, with the ability to buy a car not on finance (and my current car is desperately in need of being replaced). I'd really like an electric car, as 99% of my driving is extremely local, and I think an electric would be ideal for me.

What do I want a car to do? Get me where I'm going, in a decent level of comfort. I'm not a car person - evidenced by holding on to the corrolla for 12+ years, all I really care about is will it get me where I'm going.

unkel

Did you consider any other EV than a Leaf? Leaf is the only EV for sale in this country that still uses the obsolete Japanese CHAdeMO fast charging system. Not a great idea to buy a car with that system if you regularly have to use public fast charging and plan on keeping the car for a long time

All other EVs have CCS fast charging which is the standard in Europe

sekond

unkel wrote: »

Did you consider any other EV than a Leaf? Leaf is the only EV for sale in this country that still uses the obsolete Japanese CHAdeMO fast charging system. Not a great idea to buy a car with that system if you regularly have to use public fast charging and plan on keeping the car for a long time

All other EVs have CCS fast charging which is the standard in Europe

I would definitely consider a different EV. The Leaf is just the one I am more familiar with as there is a dealer nearby so I called in to have a look. If there was a different EV within budget and other requirements, I'd definitely consider it. (Although certainly at the moment I don't envisage having to use fast chargers particularly often).

unkel

I'd suggest go test drive all of the EVs within budget. All of them will fit 2 adults and 2 teenagers, but not all of them have a lot of boot space. Are you in a hurry? There are several new EVs about to be available (early) next year.

The EVs that suit your budget and are available now are eGolf, Leaf 40, Ioniq and Zoe (hope I'm not forgetting any)

Dardania

unkel wrote: »

Did you consider any other EV than a Leaf? Leaf is the only EV for sale in this country that still uses the obsolete Japanese CHAdeMO fast charging system. Not a great idea to buy a car with that system if you regularly have to use public fast charging and plan on keeping the car for a long time

All other EVs have CCS fast charging which is the standard in Europe

I thought leafs (leaves?) Since 2018 come with CCS?

unkel

Nope. Not even the 2020 model 62kWh comes with CCS. The new Leaf is pretty much the same as the 2011 Leaf with a facelift exterior and a bigger battery. Even the motor and drive train are still the same. Mad_Lad has said it all along and he was right.

Mike9832

Lantus wrote: »

I would first determine what you want your car to do before asking if any one model is best. Do you want to spend 30k on a car. Is that your budget or just what you'd need to spend to get a leaf. Don't think the 300km trip is feasible in an l40 though??? Not at motorway speed with heaters etc in winter. You'll be stopping at least once.

Edit, it's 150 there and 150 back. That's OK..

That's if a charger is at the 150 and 150km in winter is balls out max range on the motorway on an L40

If charger is not at 150, your probably stopping at 120km charging, then charging again somewhere

2 chargers to do 300km

Why not a pluggin Prius OP, seems as Toyota has never let you down and they are cheap in the UK

Should be able to get a few month old one all in for well under €30,000 and range seems to be real world 40km on electric power

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201908070881620?radius=1500&postcode=m52ty&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&make=TOYOTA&year-from=2019&sort=price-asc&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&page=1

Lantus

So the return 150km would defo require a charge to get home. Is that feasible and what's the back up if there's an issue.

While on paper an ev suits as your mileage is low so would dozens of other cars.

Look at all the major brands and styles and see what takes your fancy. It's a little odd that your spending 30k cash but are not into cars?? I'd look at good finance deals like zero pcp to see where you can borrow risk free and interest free.

Vw, skoda, seat tend to do the best zero interest deals. All those brands will do petrol engines well suited to you.

Your mileage will cost you 700 a year rounding up so even at 10 years use a well spec'd 20k 2nd hand car would have cost you less than the ev.

Why not test drive a few this weekend and get a good feel and look on line. 30k is a massive amount to drop on a car and the novelty soon wears off.

unkel

Lantus wrote: »

Your mileage will cost you 700 a year rounding up so even at 10 years use a well spec'd 20k 2nd hand car would have cost you less than the ev.

Savings on an EV are far more than just fuel. And dare I say it, far more than financial.

sekond

i'm not into cars, but I am into technology... and I love the idea of an electric car. Other than not wanting to be in debt for a car, the financial issues aren't what is pushing me towards an EV. I may decide on a second hand car in the long run, but, as I said, I likely won't be in a position to buy a brand new car again, so I thought I'd start looking at the ideal (brand new EV) and then see if I have to compromise from there.

Thanks for the other options unkel - I've see if I can test drive those too. From a quick look, the eGolf certainly would be the right size...

I'm not in a hurry at all. February/March-ish would do fine. I could probably push a bit later than that if necessary, and if my current car holds out that long!

Mickeroo

Seem to be plenty of the new Ioniqs around for test drive too.

Joseph SEE

sekond wrote: »

i'm not into cars, but I am into technology... and I love the idea of an electric car. Other than not wanting to be in debt for a car, the financial issues aren't what is pushing me towards an EV. I may decide on a second hand car in the long run, but, as I said, I likely won't be in a position to buy a brand new car again, so I thought I'd start looking at the ideal (brand new EV) and then see if I have to compromise from there.

Thanks for the other options unkel - I've see if I can test drive those too. From a quick look, the eGolf certainly would be the right size...

I'm not in a hurry at all. February/March-ish would do fine. I could probably push a bit later than that if necessary, and if my current car holds out that long!

You should consider seriously consider the new Zoe 50. It has longer range than the Leaf with the 40kWh battery. It has a much larger battery - 52kWh usable compared to 40kWh nominal of the Leaf (larger battery by more than 12kWh). The battery is air-cooled. The Leaf battery battery has no cooling.

It comfortably seats 4 adults. The boot is likely not much smaller than your existing car at about 340 litres. The car is just under 4.1m in length. If you have the 2000 Corolla hatchback, for example, that's just under 4.3m long with a long bonnet.

The LEAF is a much larger car than the Zoe and dare I say your current car, at just under 4.5m long with a much larger boot than either car - 435 litres.

The Zoe has has a much better charging advantage. As well as 50KW DC charging (same as the LEAF) using the newer CCS standard, it's on-board AC charger is 22KW. AC charge points will essentially lead to charging more than 3 times faster in town than a LEAF with the 6.6KW AC charger. The Zoe has the fastest AC charging of any car available.

You should be able to get a new Zoe for well-under 30k. Well worth a test drive at the very least. The interior is probably very comparable size-wise to your existing car.

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

Seem to be plenty of the new Ioniqs around for test drive too.

Horrible price though

OP has a 12 year old yoke and Nissan doing scrappage

62kWh Leaf for 34k after scrappage is not a bad deal

With that battery size even with degradation getting 10 years out of it is not a big deal, will still have pretty of range then

ELM327

Don't buy a leaf.
Don't buy a new model Ioniq.

Best value money EV for 30k out there right now is a 2017-18 Ioniq for 20-22k and keep the rest of the 30k in your pocket for a holiday or something.

Mike9832

ELM327 wrote: »

Don't buy a leaf.
Don't buy a new model Ioniq.

Best value money EV for 30k out there right now is a 2017-18 Ioniq for 20-22k and keep the rest of the 30k in your pocket for a holiday or something.

Agree

Rest of them besides Tesla are horribly over priced

The new Ioniq for €34,000 is a disgrace

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

Best value money EV for 30k out there right now is a 2017-18 Ioniq for 20-22k

Did I read somewhere unkel was considering taking €14k for his (he's trading up to a 2020 Model X Raven IIRC)?
I think it's a very low mileage '17 model.



The Leaf 40 wouldn't be a bad choice for your usage to be fair & probably is an OK deal at present if scrappage discount is available, especially if you want a brand new '20 reg.
Chademo isn't ideal but if you will need fast charging very infrequently, it wouldn't be a deal breaker.
Personally I'd hold off until Q2 next year - see what's available then.

Kramer

Mike9832 wrote: »

The new Ioniq for €34,000 is a disgrace

Isn't is closer to €38,000?
I was also told the facelifted Kona due soon will be just over €40k.

Of course, that doesn't include the nice juicy €10,000 tax payer funded bonus for the manufacturers. New Ioniq is actually €48,000 :eek:.

Mike9832

Kramer wrote: »

Isn't is closer to €38,000?
I was also told the facelifted Kona due soon will be just over €40k.

Of course, that doesn't include the nice juicy €10,000 tax payer funded bonus for the manufacturers. New Ioniq is actually €48,000 :eek:.

Government should stop those grants

Waste of money

Boardnashea

I am the (sort-of) happy new owner of a 162 Leaf UK import. Just on your family size I would say it would be a bit of a squeeze if four of you were in the car on most journeys. I am blessed with a 185cm teenager who plays cello and two others of more moderate dimensions; in both music and in height. I wouldn't attempt a run to music lessons with everyone on-board.
The raised floor level in the back is always going to be an issue in the back seats.
From the drivers point of view it is a lovely car.
My other car is an Octavia and have always driven an estate so we manage.

Shefwedfan

The eGolf is best electric car available in your budget.

Just go around and test drive them all and see what you think. Buying a car just because it gives you a little extra range is never a good idea. You have to live in it then. Buy something you will enjoy driving. With the networking moving to paid and also with Ionity you now are getting close to a proper network

unkel

I agree the eGolf, if you can get it for the current scrappage deal of EUR29k on the road, is the best value EV at the moment.

Mike9832

unkel wrote: »

I agree the eGolf, if you can get it for the current scrappage deal of EUR29k on the road, is the best value EV at the moment.

Leaf 62kWh with double the battery is better imo for 34k

eGolf has very poor range, only 30kWh useable or so, 29k is alot for 150km range

Leaf has nearly double that and almost double bhp too with 217bhp

Leaf interior is decent too, not as good as eGolf, but not bad

Black_Knight

Kramer wrote: »

Did I read somewhere unkel was considering taking €14k for his (he's trading up to a 2020 Model X Raven IIRC)?
I think it's a very low mileage '17 model.

Latest offer was €14.5k :P


With a 12+ year old car, scrappage would be a big appeal. What's your corolla worth? You have it 12 years, and I assume it wasn't new when you got it. Scrappage is most likely to give you the best deal out there (unless you pony up stupid money for the new ioniq)

grudgehugger

L40 owner here. Bought it in July 2018.

Going great for me however best to think of it having about 160km range from 100% to avoid disappointment

Your 300km round trip will only work with at least one fast charge stop, and two short stops would prob work better.

For us, size-wise it works great. Spacious boot etc. Afaik a lot of the other EV’s that get talked about on the forum are not as good on this.

Our kids are 8 and 5. Not sure how comfortable back seats are for adults/tall teenagers. Do a test drive and check that out - could well rule it out for you.

Overall I’ve been really pleased with it - suits our household really well in terms of our driving patterns and I find it a lovely car to drive/own. Things like the adaptive cruise, pre-heating in the mornings are a big step up from my previous cars.

I tend to stick with a car I like for a long time (had a Micra as my first car - loved it - lasted 10 years with me, and was a 4yo when I got it). I can see the Leaf lasting 8-10 years for me no bother.

Happy to answer detailed questions on here or via PM

grudgehugger

Based on the mileage you quote (sounds low), your running costs would be very very low assuming a home charger, but the upfront investment is not to be sniffed at...

krissovo

The leaf is a nice car and if you can stretch to a 62kw you will be happy. Its comfy for a family, pro pilot is a dream and build quality is good. Technology is a little old school with Chademo but with the recent pricing introduced for fast chargers the queuing is reduced so much that the CCS IONITY chargers are almost null and void as the standard chargers are available again.

If you cannot stretch to a 62kw then I would go nearly new, there is some value out there. The Ioniq 28kw is good, some nice 2019 L40's around and also the 120ah I3's that fit a surprising amount into a small frame and do seat 4 adults better than some.

Lantus

Well a 60kwh leaf is 42k so not in budget.

Technology is in every car. Go sit in a superb. 1.5 petrol is 32k and its a very comfy refined and reliable car.

KCross

Lantus wrote: »

Well a 60kwh leaf is 42k so not in budget.

Huh? I didn’t think so. I thought it was €34k OTR with scrappage?

Technology is in every car.

True. You don’t get EV tech in ICE cars though. There is a distinction.

Lumen

Agree with Zoe 50 recommendation, if you can live with the size and the wait.

Renault website still lists old model only, have to rely on reviews for pricing and availability info.

Lantus

KCross wrote: »

Huh? I didn’t think so. I thought it was €34k OTR with scrappage?

It's starts from 40,500 but more like 42k otr once spec'd out. Scrappage is up to 3500 on leaf and they have a calculator to help value. So 38500 is more likely which is very generously out of budget......

KCross

Lantus wrote: »

It's starts from 40,500 but more like 42k otr once spec'd out. Scrappage is up to 3500 on leaf and they have a calculator to help value. So 38500 is more likely which is very generously out of budget......

Nissan.ie has it at €37840 and then take scrappage off.

Mike9832

Lantus wrote: »

It's starts from 40,500 but more like 42k otr once spec'd out. Scrappage is up to 3500 on leaf and they have a calculator to help value. So 38500 is more likely which is very generously out of budget......

Its €34,840

Read the link

https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/offers/Scrappage%20Deals.html

Paying almost 30k for a supermini Zoe is insane imo

Dacia are selling that car for 12k without a battery

BigAl81

Hi,

Good luck with your choice. My top tip is to test drive all the cars mentioned here.

You'll be sitting in the car for 10 years, may as well take a few evenings and try a few out.

Purely subjective, but after a test drive, I preferred the Ioniq to the Leaf, so do try drive em all!

Some dealers are offering 24 hour test drives, so ask about that. I know the Zoe is offering this at the moment for example.

Looking to buy my second EV at the moment and the Leaf with scrappage is a good deal price wise in my opinion. The lack of CCS charging would be a pain, but not necessarily a deal breaker unless there's an Ionity charging station on your 300km trip it won't really matter to you.

However if your gonna stretch to 34k for the 62kW Leaf, a few more grand could get you a second hand Tesla Model S imported from the UK.

A little more money at this price point gets you waaayyyyy more car.

Here's an example, more will come at a lower price soon so might be worth an eye on the Tesla site...

https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJSB7H16FFP78080?redirect=no

There's cheaper ones on Auto Trader but you get a warranty if you buy from Tesla.

With any EV, watch out for range. Ignore manufacturers claims, these are utter horsesh1t.

I find the "EPA combined range" a good realistic average.

However, on a cold wet windy day, and driving over 110kmph you won't even get that.

In summer I can happily do a 220km trip in my Ioniq. Exact same trip in the winter and I won't get 160kms out of the car.

Speed and temperature will kill the range on the day for any EV. Set your expectations low for motorway winter range and you won't be disappointed!

Good luck!

Mike9832

Yep Ioniq at 22k is unbeatable if buying used

Nice warranty too

charlieIRL

If you can live with 150/160kms winter range, is definitely buy the eGolf. Loads of room and a super quality car.

adunis

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its €34,840

Read the link

https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/offers/Scrappage%20Deals.html

Paying almost 30k for a supermini Zoe is insane imo

Dacia are selling that car for 12k without a battery

Ehh no they're not..........

Lantus

Mike9832 wrote: »

Its €34,840

Read the link

https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/offers/Scrappage%20Deals.html

Paying almost 30k for a supermini Zoe is insane imo

Dacia are selling that car for 12k without a battery

OK I clicked on the sve by accident. The sv and xe are cheaper.

The 8k of credit interest is eye-watering. I known op is cash but for anyone else it's plus 8k to the listed car price.

rolion

I'm feeling much more confused than when i started reading the thread... poor OP !

Sounds like a 40 kWh leaf would meet pretty much all of your requirements. They are pretty good deal with the scrappage offer at the moment. We have had one since April '18 and can't really fault it unless you're planning to do many daily trips of over 500 km. I wouldn't bother with the 62 kWh battery to be honest. I would rather have leather etc over the larger battery.

I would also keep an eye on the up and coming Peugeot 2008 e which seems like a very promising car and more up to date. But might be over the budget.

Mike9832

Lantus wrote: »

OK I clicked on the sve by accident. The sv and xe are cheaper.

The 8k of credit interest is eye-watering. I known op is cash but for anyone else it's plus 8k to the listed car price.

Yeah the credit is mental

Be cheaper arrange finance yourself

eGolf is hard to beat at 29k if going finance, VW group have the best pcp deals

Water John

VW have their own bank and also introduced PCP.
OP has three choices, if going EV. Buy a new car. Buy a 2/3 yr old car. Wait for new models.
The second option offers the best value and can buy within your budget.

sekond

rolion wrote: »

I'm feeling much more confused than when i started reading the thread... poor OP !

Confused doesn't begin to explain it! I'm following along though and taking it all in. Test drives seem to feature fairly highly in my future!

What's the best way to go about looking for a 2nd hand one, if I go that way? Are there good dealers out there?

Water John

A good way to get a feel of how owners have to say about their car is, stroll up to them while charging. We have had a regular stream of callers.

Gile_na_gile

Also a Leaf 40KwH owner, and very satifisfied with the car in all respects. For all your regular trips and for space, it is the best car at that budget. Beyond that budget and closer to 40k, you could join the waiting list for a Kia e-Niro or downsize to cars with less back seat space or tiny boots. It is our sole family car for two kids under 10 years.

The 62KwW has a slightly smaller boot due to the battery pack, but I would be tempted, if able, to take that as I do a lot of 200km trips. The L40 does do that journey at moderate speeds in summer, but will not make it with <5 degrees Celsius, strong headwinds, heating, lighting, etc, getting to around 150 in the worst conditions and lower still at 120km/h. That was my experience a few nights ago, but on the way back I could complete the journey from 100% to around 5% (though charged a tiny bit as I was not in a rush).

All in all, it is a very pleasant car to drive. Good quality dash and fittings, very quiet and smooth ride, a powerful drivetrain (0-100 in under 8 seconds), and a lot of included safety tech. Even for long journeys, I relish the drive. I'll swap to a larger battery car in a few years.

Joseph SEE

Here's some hard data of battery degradation from a fleet of over 6,000 vehicles. There isn't a Zoe there, but the Kangoo ZE, I'm sure, is a good substitute.

Older Leafs don't do so well. A combination of idiots at Nissan prematurely rushing the battery development to compete with Renault and no cooling of the battery. New 2019 Leaf looks promising, but is this the 40kWh version or the 62kWh?

https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html

Article about the data.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/14/8-lessons-about-ev-battery-health-from-6300-electric-cars/

Soul looks promising too. Suffice to say that this should mean all the triplets; Soul, Kona and E-Niro should be identical.

Stealthirl

On the Chademo v CCS issue
Currently there are

Chademo
Nissan EVs registered here (leaf/ENV) 3,239
The triplets (Mitsubishi I-MIEV/Peugeot Ion/Citroën C-Zero) 18
Total = 3,257 (could not find any 1st gen soul EVs oddly )


CCS
Hyundai Kona - 1,084
Hyundai Ioniq - 460
E-Golf - 338
BMW i3 - 246
Kia Niro - 72
Kia e-Soul - 62
Audi e-tron - 44
Jaguar I-Pace - 42
Mercedes-Benz EQC - 4
Total = 2,352

Tesla
Model S - 184
Model 3 - 168 CCS
Model X - 81
Total = 433

Type2 only
Zoe 465

Could not find any Mercedes-Benz B class or Smart EV numbers

Left out the Twizzy as it's only 3pin

Thats a total of 6,507 with Chademo representing just over 50% and CCS just over 36%
Yes Chademo is in decline but with the Leaf being so popular it will be a long time before it's gone as there's no indication it would switch to CCS

I don't think i left any BEV's out and my sums are right but open to correction.

Black_Knight

sekond wrote: »

What's the best way to go about looking for a 2nd hand one, if I go that way? Are there good dealers out there?

IMO, not really. Mooney's seem to get quite a few EVs second hand, and have stupidly high prices for them. I'd avoid them.

Dealers don't really offer you anything for newly used cars. The ioniq (my car) comes with 8 years warranty, and 5 years on the battery (correct me if I'm wrong). I bought off dealer X but dealer Y is closer so I use them if needs be. Once the bodywork is clean, interior is clear, and milage isn't crazy, I'd pick the cheapest seller.

There's a second hand seller with great respect here. Pat Fitzgerald I think is his name.
https://www.electricautos.ie/

unkel

Early Monday morning post

Phil Fitzgerald. And 5 years manufacturers warranty on Ioniq, but 8 years on battery