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GUI Handicap as a house member of a club

  • 12-12-2019 12:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    Hi Folks. Wondering if someone can advise. I want to get a GUI handicap so that I can play in open/semi open competitions.

    I used to have a handicap through my club, I have a GolfNet logon, but I've downgraded membership to house member with no course access. My handicap status now is "N" (non-competition) which doesn't allow me to play in semi opens etc.

    I was thinking I might ask my club to consider making some changes to their house membership to support house members being able to get a handicap. Presumably all they would need to do would be to allow me to submit 3 cards and then they apply for my handicap? Is that right? Or how else could I get from N Status to C status on my handicap?

    I was a bit stupid, when I downgraded, I should have taken it upon myself to play 4 counting comps each year, then presumably I would not be in this position.

    Presumably, once I get my handicap to C by submitting 3 cards, to keep it "active", I would just need to play 4 open competitions a year in order to have a valid/current handicap.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    AFAIK it's 3 qualifying comps in your home course to maintain your C status (not Opens at other courses), if they have an Open then that is fine but be aware these need to be qualifying comps so Winter comps with clean and place everywhere are non-qualifying so do not count


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,331 mike12


    Interesting question, if u are a member of the club it would seem like u only have to play 3 opens there to hold a handicap, i think there is a payment to the GUI which your membership might not include.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ GolfNut33


    slave1 wrote: »
    AFAIK it's 3 qualifying comps in your home course to maintain your C status (not Opens at other courses), if they have an Open then that is fine but be aware these need to be qualifying comps so Winter comps with clean and place everywhere are non-qualifying so do not count

    Think it's just 3 qualifying comps. Doesn't have to be at home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes, my understanding is that it is qualifying competitions at any club, not just your home club.

    Good to know there might be a GUI payment needed as part of this - maybe an opt in for the House Member.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    You'd need a home club to manage your handicap though....if you are a house member your club wont be managing your handicap and presumably (as above) you are no longer paying athe GUI levy.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    GreeBo wrote: »
    You'd need a home club to manage your handicap though....if you are a house member your club wont be managing your handicap and presumably (as above) you are no longer paying athe GUI levy.

    What does "managing your handicap" mean? Is it something I could ask for them to do as part of paying the GUI levy each year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    What does "managing your handicap" mean? Is it something I could ask for them to do as part of paying the GUI levy each year?

    It means that they process any scores you return (including opens etc) and any scores at your home club.
    Who do you think manages your handicap if not your club? :confused:

    You could look into a distance membership option somewhere else and have them keep your handicap and play whatever opens you want, but you will still have to play 3 rounds with someone in that club to get your initial handicap.

    tbh I think you are trying to have your cake and eat it a little bit....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭ Miley Byrne


    Presumably you downgraded due to cost or not having time to play much golf or something? There are benefits that go along with being a full member of a golf club. Also there are costs to the club for each member they have. (More traffic on course requiring more maintenance for example.)

    If every house member were to try to get a handicap then there would be no benefit to being a full member. So why would any full member pay the extra fees when they could have all the benefits for a fraction of the cost by being a house member?

    Or am I missing something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭ scout353


    So if I'm reading this correctly, you don't want to pay to be a member of your own club, yet want to be able to go and play in competitions at other clubs!

    Not the best idea in the world IMHO.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    GolfNut33 wrote: »
    Think it's just 3 qualifying comps. Doesn't have to be at home.

    I thought it had to be at your home club, as a method of eradicating those picking up cheap distance membership?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭ Miley Byrne


    slave1 wrote: »
    I thought it had to be at your home club, as a method of eradicating those picking up cheap distance membership?

    Thought it was now 4 comps at your home club. I may be wrong but I think that was brought in a couple of years ago


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    Presumably you downgraded due to cost or not having time to play much golf or something? There are benefits that go along with being a full member of a golf club. Also there are costs to the club for each member they have. (More traffic on course requiring more maintenance for example.)

    If every house member were to try to get a handicap then there would be no benefit to being a full member. So why would any full member pay the extra fees when they could have all the benefits for a fraction of the cost by being a house member?

    Or am I missing something?

    No, I think that sermon is complete, thanks.

    One pretty key point you've missed in he bold bit is the benefit of being allowed to play golf in your golf club - pretty key to most people & their desire to be a member of a golf club. I'm not looking for all the benefits, nor anythign like it.

    Most people would consider the main benefit of being a member of a golf club to be playing golf. Am I missing something? I'm not looking to play golf at all at my club, I'm happy to pay to play every time I play. I just want to be able to play in opens, invitationals etc, and currently there is no way for me to do that even though my yearly sub is probably more than most people.

    Also, I'd like to think that fellow members who have the time or can afford to pay 7 day golf membership would not begrudge a house member a GUI handicap, when the house member is contributing significantly to the club but not using it at all. Pretty petty & small minded to think otherwise in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭ Miley Byrne


    No, I think that sermon is complete, thanks.

    One pretty key point you've missed in he bold bit is the benefit of being allowed to play golf in your golf club - pretty key to most people & their desire to be a member of a golf club. I'm not looking for all the benefits, nor anythign like it.

    Most people would consider the main benefit of being a member of a golf club to be playing golf. Am I missing something? I'm not looking to play golf at all at my club, I'm happy to pay to play every time I play. I just want to be able to play in opens, invitationals etc, and currently there is no way for me to do that even though my yearly sub is probably more than most people.

    Also, I'd like to think that fellow members who have the time or can afford to pay 7 day golf membership would not begrudge a house member a GUI handicap, when the house member is contributing significantly to the club but not using it at all. Pretty petty & small minded to think otherwise in my opinion.


    I did ask if I was missing something...

    So what exactly does house membership entitle you to? Why not take out full membership if you want to play in opens and classics and the like? I'm sorry if it comes across like a sermon but the system shouldn't change because it doesn't suit the odd person.That's just the way membership works. If cost is the problem then join a less expensive club. There are plenty of options out there


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,037 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    slave1 wrote: »
    I thought it had to be at your home club, as a method of eradicating those picking up cheap distance membership?
    Thought it was now 4 comps at your home club. I may be wrong but I think that was brought in a couple of years ago

    Yeah, think that's it, 4 home club comps to retain C status


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    I did ask if I was missing something...

    So what exactly does house membership entitle you to? Why not take out full membership if you want to play in opens and classics and the like? I'm sorry if it comes across like a sermon but the system shouldn't change because it doesn't suit the odd person.That's just the way membership works. If cost is the problem then join a less expensive club. There are plenty of options out there

    House membership entitles me to socialise in the golf club, which I am not particularly inclined to do. I used to be a full member but demoted my membership as I could not afford it. Keeping up membership as a house member allows me to avoid having to pay entry fee when/if I ever want to start playing golf again. The club is very conveniently located for me.

    I honestly can't see why people would have an issue with this. I am paying over 1k per year into the club. Whether I have a GUI handicap or not is of no consequence to the club, there is a significant waiting list to join. I am in a very particular circumstance, for most people who want to play in opens they do a country or distance membership. I thought about this, but I am disinclined to pay for membership in 2 clubs that I'll never play in. I'm talking about literally wanting to play 3 or 4 times a year, and only playing singles comps so that I can play social wednesday fourball semi opens that I used to play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭ Kingswood Rover


    Blessington Lakes gc have good membership options that might suit your present change in life priorities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    House membership entitles me to socialise in the golf club, which I am not particularly inclined to do. I used to be a full member but demoted my membership as I could not afford it. Keeping up membership as a house member allows me to avoid having to pay entry fee when/if I ever want to start playing golf again. The club is very conveniently located for me.

    I honestly can't see why people would have an issue with this. I am paying over 1k per year into the club. Whether I have a GUI handicap or not is of no consequence to the club, there is a significant waiting list to join. I am in a very particular circumstance, for most people who want to play in opens they do a country or distance membership. I thought about this, but I am disinclined to pay for membership in 2 clubs that I'll never play in. I'm talking about literally wanting to play 3 or 4 times a year, and only playing singles comps so that I can play social wednesday fourball semi opens that I used to play.


    Are you saying you're only looking to play 3 or 4times in the year or more often then that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    Are you saying you're only looking to play 3 or 4times in the year or more often then that?

    I'll have to play 3 or 4 times in singles comps to maintain a valid C handicap. Beyond that maybe 2 Wednesday semi opens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 717 ✭✭✭ ShivasIrons


    I'll have to play 3 or 4 times in singles comps to maintain a valid C handicap. Beyond that maybe 2 Wednesday semi opens.


    6 rounds in total? If it's really just for 2 rounds in an invitation four ball, play off your old handicap for the €5 bet in the fourball and don't return the card for the competition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    6 rounds in total? If it's really just for 2 rounds in an invitation four ball, play off your old handicap for the €5 bet in the fourball and don't return the card for the competition.

    Not really an option, the guys I would be playing with want to have a crack at the competition, whether it's a team of 4 thing or a fourball. Hence I dont get invited any more. Or at least, I think that's why.....😆


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭ Miley Byrne


    House membership entitles me to socialise in the golf club, which I am not particularly inclined to do. I used to be a full member but demoted my membership as I could not afford it. Keeping up membership as a house member allows me to avoid having to pay entry fee when/if I ever want to start playing golf again. The club is very conveniently located for me.

    I honestly can't see why people would have an issue with this. I am paying over 1k per year into the club. Whether I have a GUI handicap or not is of no consequence to the club, there is a significant waiting list to join. I am in a very particular circumstance, for most people who want to play in opens they do a country or distance membership. I thought about this, but I am disinclined to pay for membership in 2 clubs that I'll never play in. I'm talking about literally wanting to play 3 or 4 times a year, and only playing singles comps so that I can play social wednesday fourball semi opens that I used to play.

    So you are paying €1000 a year for the privilege of having the option of becoming a full member again in the future , maybe.

    How much is full membership as a matter of interest?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    I'll have to play 3 or 4 times in singles comps to maintain a valid C handicap. Beyond that maybe 2 Wednesday semi opens.

    But you will need someone to maintain this handicap for you, your club wont do it since as far as they are concerned, you are no longer a golfer that they know anything about.

    You'll need to join a club as a golfer to get them to manage your handicap and keep it valid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭ Wichita Lineman


    Must be some club if it's €1,000 plus with no playing rights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    So you are paying €1000 a year for the privilege of having the option of becoming a full member again in the future , maybe.

    How much is full membership as a matter of interest?

    Yes, that's correct.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    But you will need someone to maintain this handicap for you, your club wont do it since as far as they are concerned, you are no longer a golfer that they know anything about.

    You'll need to join a club as a golfer to get them to manage your handicap and keep it valid.

    That's why I was asking about what "maintaining my handicap" means. I would be asking my club to support me getting a handicap by processing three cards from the club, marke by a member with me paying green fees to play, and getting my club to process & issue the handicap.

    Thereafter I enter 3 or 4 open competitions a year to maintain a valid C handicap. The club that I play the open competitions submits the cards and they go up on GolfNet. I dont believe I need to play any competitions at my home club once I have the handicap. I dont see any significant maintenance ask of the club in this, unless I am missing something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭ Miley Byrne


    Yes, that's correct.



    That's why I was asking about what "maintaining my handicap" means. I would be asking my club to support me getting a handicap by processing three cards from the club, marke by a member with me paying green fees to play, and getting my club to process & issue the handicap.

    Thereafter I enter 3 or 4 open competitions a year to maintain a valid C handicap. The club that I play the open competitions submits the cards and they go up on GolfNet. I dont believe I need to play any competitions at my home club once I have the handicap. I dont see any significant maintenance ask of the club in this, unless I am missing something?

    I have some issues with the likes of distance membership etc but why don't you join the likes of a Slievenamon as a distance member and get all the benefits of that model. Granted you'd have to play there 4 times but I'm sure there are imaginative ways to sort that little problem out if they were asked nicely. What is so attractive about your current club that makes you want to pay €1000 a year to reserve a membership which you said yourself you may never actually take out and which you would rarely use anyway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Yes, that's correct.



    That's why I was asking about what "maintaining my handicap" means. I would be asking my club to support me getting a handicap by processing three cards from the club, marke by a member with me paying green fees to play, and getting my club to process & issue the handicap.

    Thereafter I enter 3 or 4 open competitions a year to maintain a valid C handicap. The club that I play the open competitions submits the cards and they go up on GolfNet. I dont believe I need to play any competitions at my home club once I have the handicap. I dont see any significant maintenance ask of the club in this, unless I am missing something?

    The opens you play in are fwd'd to your handicap secretary for processing, golf net just displays your handicap, your home club manages it.
    Its your home club that cuts you or increases your handicap after every round, applies ESRs, they are the ones that review it at the end of the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,657 ✭✭✭ Golfgraffix


    In 2018 CONGU got rid of all “club handicaps”. At the time they were converted to an official CONGU handicap, so if you put in the required 3 cards during the year you got a handicap if you didn’t you lost your handicap. I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as non competition handicap. You either have or have not got a handicap.

    To get your handicap back you need to follow the steps in clause 23.6 of the CONGU manual.

    In relation to keeping your handicap you need at least 3 qualifying scores per annum. The old term of A Non-Competition handicap identifies that less than 3 qualifying scores have been returned. I’m 90% sure that this term is gone but I could be wrong.

    In order to have a Competition handicap, a member is required to return 3 qualifying scores in the previous calendar year. These can include scores returned in qualifying competitions (both home and away), Supplementary Scores played over 9 or 18 holes at any club within GB&I which you are a member and 9 hole qualifying competitions. Scores returned in non-qualifying events and in social golf are not acceptable.

    Hope this helps


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭ BoardsMember


    I have some issues with the likes of distance membership etc but why don't you join the likes of a Slievenamon as a distance member and get all the benefits of that model. Granted you'd have to play there 4 times but I'm sure there are imaginative ways to sort that little problem out if they were asked nicely. What is so attractive about your current club that makes you want to pay €1000 a year to reserve a membership which you said yourself you may never actually take out and which you would rarely use anyway?

    It's the fact that in the future when my liabilities start to ease & I have some more spare time I plan to begin playing week in/week out as a full member. I paid a substantial entrance fee that I would need to pay again if I stopped my membership. Also I'd find it difficult to get back in.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    The opens you play in are fwd'd to your handicap secretary for processing, golf net just displays your handicap, your home club manages it.
    Its your home club that cuts you or increases your handicap after every round, applies ESRs, they are the ones that review it at the end of the year.

    Thanks for confirming, I can't see my returning 3 cards a year as being hugely taxing, when they are processing hundreds of cards each week.
    In 2018 CONGU got rid of all “club handicaps”. At the time they were converted to an official CONGU handicap, so if you put in the required 3 cards during the year you got a handicap if you didn’t you lost your handicap. I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as non competition handicap. You either have or have not got a handicap.

    To get your handicap back you need to follow the steps in clause 23.6 of the CONGU manual.

    In relation to keeping your handicap you need at least 3 qualifying scores per annum. The old term of A Non-Competition handicap identifies that less than 3 qualifying scores have been returned. I’m 90% sure that this term is gone but I could be wrong.

    In order to have a Competition handicap, a member is required to return 3 qualifying scores in the previous calendar year. These can include scores returned in qualifying competitions (both home and away), Supplementary Scores played over 9 or 18 holes at any club within GB&I which you are a member and 9 hole qualifying competitions. Scores returned in non-qualifying events and in social golf are not acceptable.

    Hope this helps

    Thanks for this. Looks like it is 26.3 rather than 23.6, link here: https://www.golfnet.ie/News%20Listing%20Assets/2019-CONGU-Manual.pdf

    There doesn't seem to be any notion of "non-playing" membership of a golf club, so I should in theory be ok to have a handicap because I am a member of a golf club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo



    Thanks for confirming, I can't see my returning 3 cards a year as being hugely taxing, when they are processing hundreds of cards each week.
    I'd suspect that you wont even be on the system as a house member so its nothing to do with effort.

    You'd need to talk to your committee to see if this is something that they want to support for a house member (and the implications around GUI levy, home club, etc)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,742 ✭✭✭✭ Wichita Lineman


    I'm not saying that this will be the case at the OP's club and he may well be the only person requesting this 'facility' but what if you had say 30 members requesting their handicaps being managed this way?

    In our club if you haven't paid a GUI based membership inc GUI fee you are not on the handicap system as technically you don't actually have a handicap and therefore your handicap cannot be maintained.

    Maybe the best thing to ask other posters is - can you see your club HC Secretary doing it 'off the books'?


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