Beefplan producer groups?

oldsmokey

I understand theres two? Why? Did corley go out on his own? Hes pushing emerald isle po fairly hard..its is all cloaked in secrecy regarding regarding price..which i kinda undrrstand, but is nonsense considering beef is on its knees on account of.....price!
Without breaching any state secrets, can anyone here advise if these groups offer a useful increase on what the grabber factories are giving? Prices on cows any good? Bonuses for pedigrees?
Im a bit pissed off, i got emerald isle whatsapp this morning urging me to join, with plenty conditions if i do, sfa on why it might be good for me.. ta.

wrangler

oldsmokey wrote: »

I understand theres two? Why? Did corley go out on his own? Hes pushing emerald isle po fairly hard..its is all cloaked in secrecy regarding regarding price..which i kinda undrrstand, but is nonsense considering beef is on its knees on account of.....price!
Without breaching any state secrets, can anyone here advise if these groups offer a useful increase on what the grabber factories are giving? Prices on cows any good? Bonuses for pedigrees?
Im a bit pissed off, i got emerald isle whatsapp this morning urging me to join, with plenty conditions if i do, sfa on why it might be good for me.. ta.

Individual farmers haven't a hope against the factories, I'm in a lamb group and the guy with 5 lambs gets the same as 500.
It's going to take a while to get going and depends on loyalty and rome wasn't built in a day,buy I'd be surprised if small producers were worse off by joining.
You needn't think it's going to be easy. Processors divide up producer groups the same asall suppliers they deal with, I doubt they'll compete too much for groups when supply settles down

Panch18

Isn’t there something f@@ked up about protesting outside a factory for weeks because of price and price transparency. Then you set up your own group and the price is as transparent as mud. Seems odd to me!!

weatherbyfoxer

is it not a bit of a contradiction to look for transparency from factorys then setup a producer's group that wont divulge any price info or details till your payed up and commited?..someone will profit out of it but cant see it being the farmer

wrangler

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

is it not a bit of a contradiction to look for transparency from factorys then setup a producer's group that wont divulge any price info or details till your payed up and commited?..someone will profit out of it but cant see it being the farmer

It's not as if you're committing for life, you can leave it next year.
Factories won't want the deals publicised,

greysides

Reading these comments as an outsider I am left wondering about the usefulness of producer groups. If the factories share them out amongst themselves and require secrecy on price it seems to me they are still in control by proxy. The groups members may get a slightly better price but that token only to set them up as a separate, competing, body against their fellow farmers which are not members of a group.

Basically, 'divide and conquer'. That's life .... but in the context of a national effort taken to improve the situation for all, that's defeat.

Cavanjack

Where did the American that was going round with the beef plan at the start go? He was going to take container loads of beef ever week and pay €4 plus for it. Haven’t heard about him since

Bass Reeves

greysides wrote: »

Reading these comments as an outsider I am left wondering about the usefulness of producer groups. If the factories share them out amongst themselves and require secrecy on price it seems to me they are still in control by proxy. The groups members may get a slightly better price but that token only to set them up as a separate, competing, body against their fellow farmers which are not members of a group.

Basically, 'divide and conquer'. That's life .... but in the context of a national effort taken to improve the situation for all, that's defeat.

First off it will take 12-18months before producer groups start to make a difference. In time advance pricing 3-6months in advance will come in. This will force up the winter price over time as lads will no longer gamble. Producer groups should allow the AA and HE scheme get national base prices for these type of cattle.especially for the pre booked higher priced seasons.
Producer groups will have there own agents so processor's will have less access to on the ground intelligence gathering. They will also be able to get the higher prices that larger finisher's have access to .producer groups will also show up market manipulation with the use of processor owned feedlots if the price that these get is way out of line with ordinary farmer price's

wrangler

Cavanjack wrote: »

Where did the American that was going round with the beef plan at the start go? He was going to take container loads of beef ever week and pay €4 plus for it. Haven’t heard about him since

Beef plan put a lot of false information out there winding up people. they don't seem to have to back up anything.

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Beef plan put a lot of false information out there winding up people. they don't seem to have to back up anything.

A bit like upwards only convergence by the IFA

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A bit like upwards only convergence by the IFA

Oh, that we could be so flippant about the mess that Beef Plan have left.

John heney described it well today.
If the factories wanted a glut of cheap cattle they couldn't have done it as well as beefplan

alps

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A bit like upwards only convergence by the IFA

The new European Agri Commisioner kicked off his tenure today by pushing for an increased CAP budget...

Seems not only IFA pushing for it..

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off it will take 12-18months before producer groups start to make a difference. In time advance pricing 3-6months in advance will come in. This will force up the winter price over time as lads will no longer gamble. Producer groups should allow the AA and HE scheme get national base prices for these type of cattle.especially for the pre booked higher priced seasons.
Producer groups will have there own agents so processor's will have less access to on the ground intelligence gathering. They will also be able to get the higher prices that larger finisher's have access to .producer groups will also show up market manipulation with the use of processor owned feedlots if the price that these get is way out of line with ordinary farmer price's

Bass I envy your stalwart commitment to the Beef Plan and it's producer group - although time will tell of their merits.
As I have previously posted and ranted about since joining Boards - we need an independent, international, approved body to oversee, check and verify the VIA (Video Imagining Analysis) machines used in factories. NSAI are the only International/EU approved organisation with the required certification/accreditation to do so. I'm sure that DAFM inspectors do their best but we have no idea if they have International/EU training/accreditation.

I wonder did any TD ask this question in the Dail.
https://www.nsai.ie/legal-metrology/enforcement-information/inspection-types/

alps

Base price wrote: »

Bass I envy your stalwart commitment to the Beef Plan and it's producer group - although time will tell of their merits.
As I have previously posted and ranted about since joining Boards - we need an independent, international, approved body to oversee, check and verify the VIA (Video Imagining Analysis) machines used in factories. NSAI are the only International/EU approved organisation with the required certification/accreditation to do so. I'm sure that DAFM inspectors do their best but we have no idea if they have International/EU training/accreditation.

I wonder did any TD ask this question in the Dail.
https://www.nsai.ie/legal-metrology/enforcement-information/inspection-types/

You're dead right Base..if these cattle were sold on a weight certificate of a weigh bridge, it would be NSAI certified periodically. It's incredible, if they are not so, that the factory grading machines are not NSAI verified..

Base price

alps wrote: »

You're dead right Base..if these cattle were sold on a weight certificate of a weigh bridge, it would be NSAI certified periodically. It's incredible, if they are not so, that the factory grading machines are not NSAI verified..

Don't start me again. I've been around this feckin merry go round for years and nobody seems to listen or give a **** :mad:

I could never understand why the IFA, ICSA or ICMSA stood back over the years and let it happen.

In the past I've done contract work for companies who wanted to achieve ISO accreditation for Quality Management Systems yet I see some factories have ISO accreditation but they neglect to print which ISO standard they have.
It's a load of bullcocks.

Bass Reeves

Base price wrote: »

Bass I envy your stalwart commitment to the Beef Plan and it's producer group - although time will tell of their merits.
As I have previously posted and ranted about since joining Boards - we need an independent, international, approved body to oversee, check and verify the VIA (Video Imagining Analysis) machines used in factories. NSAI are the only International/EU approved organisation with the required certification/accreditation to do so. I'm sure that DAFM inspectors do their best but we have no idea if they have International/EU training/accreditation.

I wonder did any TD ask this question in the Dail.
https://www.nsai.ie/legal-metrology/enforcement-information/inspection-types/

First off producer groups set up are independent of BP. They are set up be BP members but are separate entities. You do not need to be members of this organization to join. I am disappointed that neither IFA, ICMSA or ICSA have set up PG's.

I agree entirely that the grading machines need proper oversight Expecting dept officers to challenge a electronic machine. If nothing else it is possible that there is very few AO that have actually worked on the old grading around now. No AO could afford to make the mistake of challenging the complete grading in a factory. He would probably never work in that area again if proved slightly wrong.

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Don't start me again. I've been around this feckin merry go round for years and nobody seems to listen or give a **** :mad:

I could never understand why the IFA, ICSA or ICMSA stood back over the years and let it happen.

In the past I've done contract work for companies who wanted to achieve ISO accreditation for Quality Management Systems yet I see some factories have ISO accreditation but they neglect to print which ISO standard they have.
It's a load of bullcocks.

Your a long time on about this.
Why don't you contact Kevin Kinsella and put some pressure on him, all those guys are easy enough talked to if they're around

https://www.ifa.ie/sectors/cattle/contacts/