I know it's after hours but here goes.......

galtsdrift

I thought I would try here and take the punches. I did a training course, one day, simple enough, but didn't get along with the presenter. In fact we didn't like each other at all from a previous course he did (he keeps making jokes at the expense of his customers and I pulled him up on it)

We did the course and at the end we had a small 40 question test. Multiple choice. I did the test and out of the blue on a sunday I get an email starting off with the "we had X number of participants on this course, all passed except you" and proceeded to outline that he double checked and that is the result. He then says he used negitive marking in the test. There was no mention of this (or a test) on any of the training literature and I know I certainly had very little wrong on that paper.

Besides the fact I was emailed such a smarmy email on a sunday, am I entiled to ask to see the paper and the marking methodology.

It's worth mentioning,the course, it's certificate and all that is meaningless, I don't care and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if I done it or not to my work or life but I do fancy pulling this spoofer up on this is someway just to call him out.

Any advise on the best approach and does he have to go through the marking and present the paper if requested?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Who paid for the course and who is the certificate accredited by?

galtsdrift

Claire Old Dartboard wrote: »

Who paid for the course and who is the certificate accredited by?

My work and it's a cert from him

Quantum Erasure

yep, call him out. just out of the pure principle of the thing

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

galtsdrift wrote: »

My work and it's a cert from him

Then get a copy of the test, your employer is entitled to it. But they may need to request it.

galtsdrift

The email is what has me wanting to lock horns. I found it bang out of order and very unprofessional. I frankly don't care what the others got.

ILoveYourVibes

I wouldn't bother to see the test.

I would tell him you haven't time for these unprofessional childish games because you have real work to do.

I would give a bad review of him to your employer so they stop wasting their money on his courses and recommend someone else.

galtsdrift

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I wouldn't bother to see the test.

I would tell him you haven't time for these unprofessional childish games because you have real work to do.

I would give a bad review of him to your employer so they stop wasting their money on his courses and recommend someone else.

I agree with the last bit but also I feel asking to see the test, the methodology of marking and explain why there is no details of the process is just really to be a pain.

ILoveYourVibes

galtsdrift wrote: »

I agree with the last bit but also I feel asking to see the test, the methodology of marking and explain why there is no details of the process is just really to be a pain.

Ask for your test back but not an explanation.

Tell your employer that the marking process is completely arbitrary and seems to be based on personal whim rather than anything else.

They must stop sending people to this person for training as any certification appears to be completely random.

I wouldn't ask for his reasoning. I would just ask to see your test.

I bet he will refuse though.

Just tell your employer he is completely unreliable.

Maybe you are the only one who failed the test because you were too busy taking a dislike to a trailer your employer uses, taking offence over nothing, when you should have been paying attention to the content.

You made your point, now the trainer gets to make theirs. You might both have legitimate grounds to pull each other up over something. You’re the one who failed to pass an exam and get a cert, at the end of the day. He’ll still joke if he wants ‘at his customers expense’.

I only see one side as having lost here.

Trainers always end up having smart arses to deal with, but if they’re the one issuing the cert they’re not going to pass you if you fail the exam just to keep a smart arse from complaining about them.

dxhound2005

galtsdrift wrote: »

I agree with the last bit but also I feel asking to see the test, the methodology of marking and explain why there is no details of the process is just really to be a pain.

You are the person with the most knowledge of what went on and what to do to resolve it. Everyone else is at a disadvantage. I had to look up what Negative Marking means. This could be the key to the result you got, since you are certain that you did not get many questions wrong. Depends on the threshold of what is a pass mark.

Negative marking is a type of marking system where for every question you answer wrongly, you not only get no marks for that particular question but are also deducted extra marks from your previous total.

Let me explain it with an example:

Suppose in an exam, you have 5 question in total, each of one mark each. So the maximum marks that you can score is 5 marks. And suppose you do one question wrong, then you get 4 marks. That is according to a marking system which does not have negative marking.

However, suppose there is a negative marking of 2 marks for every wrong answer. Then instead of getting 4 marks, you will get only 2. This is because they will give you +4 marks for the four correct answers and then -2 for the wrong answer.

So +4+(-2) = 4-2 = 2. That's the mathematical explanation.

Normally, if there is negative marking, then it's best to leave an answer which you are doubtful about unanswered instead of attempting it. This ensures that you don't lose any extra marks for wrong attempts. Conventionally, this system is used in most olympiads and in the buzzer rounds of quizzes.

So be careful and watch out for negative marking.

Also you say that X number participated in the course. If this was a small number say 4 or less it might not be too surprising if there was only one failure. But if it was a lot bigger say 12 or more, it would be more likely that more than one would fail.

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

Maybe you are the only one who failed the test because you were too busy taking a dislike to a trailer your employer uses, taking offence over nothing, when you should have been paying attention to the content.

You made your point, now the trainer gets to make theirs. You might both have legitimate grounds to pull each other up over something. You’re the one who failed to pass an exam and get a cert, at the end of the day. He’ll still joke if he wants ‘at his customers expense’.

I only see one side as having lost here.

Trainers always end up having smart arses to deal with, but if they’re the one issuing the cert they’re not going to pass you if you fail the exam just to keep a smart arse from complaining about them.

This man isn't a trainer. He is a freelancer hired by the company.

Its not like being a secondary school teacher.

The company and the employees are clients.

You made your point, now the trainer gets to make theirs. You might both have legitimate grounds to pull each other up over something. You’re the one who failed to pass an exam and get a cert, at the end of the day. He’ll still joke if he wants ‘at his customers expense’.

That would make this 'Trainer' totally unprofessional.

It was a SERVICE the client was unhappy with the service not just the test results.

The company should not have to pay for bad service. And believe me they won't.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This man isn't a trainer. He is a freelancer hired by the company.

Its not like being a secondary school teacher.

The company and the employees are clients.




That would make this 'Trainer' totally unprofessional.

It was a SERVICE the client was unhappy with the service not just the test results.

The company should not have to pay for bad service. And believe me they won't.

You don’t know any of that to be the case.

ILoveYourVibes

galtsdrift wrote: »

My work and it's a cert from him

Its worth bubkes.

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

You don’t know any of that to be the case.

Let me get back to you on that.

galtsdrift

JayZeus wrote: »

Maybe you are the only one who failed the test because you were too busy taking a dislike to a trailer your employer uses, taking offence over nothing, when you should have been paying attention to the content.

You made your point, now the trainer gets to make theirs. You might both have legitimate grounds to pull each other up over something. You’re the one who failed to pass an exam and get a cert, at the end of the day. He’ll still joke if he wants ‘at his customers expense’.

I only see one side as having lost here.

Trainers always end up having smart arses to deal with, but if they’re the one issuing the cert they’re not going to pass you if you fail the exam just to keep a smart arse from complaining about them.

THere is no detail on the website, the course literature or anything about the exam, the marking system or anything. YOu can't just pipe up on a sunday with an email stating that you failed and everyone else passed and not expect a reaction.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its worth bubkes.

Unless he is authorised to issue certification on behalf of a certifying body to participants who complete a course following a prescribed syllabus, pass an exam etc.

An employer has sent an employee on a one day training course, with a trainer they use repeatedly, so they will certainly pay the participation/exam fee.

The OP will have to explain to their employer why they have failed an exam which all other participants have passed, which has likely been passed by previous attendees from the same company.

The likely result is that the employee will be under greater scrutiny than the trainer, especially if the trainer is known and trusted by the employer/their industry and the OP is seen to be in any way troublesome by their employer.

A days pay, lost productivity, training fees down the toilet. The OP better have a clear explanation that doesn’t centre on a mutual dislike and them being victimised.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Let me get back to you on that.

Really? How exactly? Seeing as the OP registered their account in March 2019 and has only posted on this thread, how would you be able to confirm any of the details related to this incident?

Unless of course....

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

Unless he is authorised to issue certification on behalf of a certifying body to participants who complete a course following a prescribed syllabus, pass an exam etc.

.

A one day course is still worth bubkes. You sound like you have never worked in any industry ever.

The op has a relationship with their employer probably fostered over at least a year or two. The employer knows the op's work.

They also know probably very little about this trainer in comparison. And this trainer only knows the op one day.

If i were an employer ...and a trainer failed one of my best employees ....or a fairly good one. I know whose side would be on.

galtsdrift

JayZeus wrote: »

Unless he is authorised to issue certification on behalf of a certifying body to participants who complete a course following a prescribed syllabus, pass an exam etc.

An employer has sent an employee on a one day training course, with a trainer they use repeatedly, so they will certainly pay the participation/exam fee.

The OP will have to explain to their employer why they have failed an exam which all other participants have passed, which has likely been passed by previous attendees from the same company.

The likely result is that the employee will be under greater scrutiny than the trainer, especially if the trainer is known and trusted by the employer/their industry and the OP is seen to be in any way troublesome by their employer.

A days pay, lost productivity, training fees down the toilet. The OP better have a clear explanation that doesn’t centre on a mutual dislike and them being victimised.

We don't use him really, just a couple of us this time. I would happily stand up to this trainer and talk about the industry all day long. It's a shame in this role we only use the likes of him as trainers when in my previous role we'd be dealing with these consultants in a different capacity, one where I would be in a very comfortable position to clip their wings.

dxhound2005

galtsdrift wrote: »

THere is no detail on the website, the course literature or anything about the exam, the marking system or anything. YOu can't just pipe up on a sunday with an email stating that you failed and everyone else passed and not expect a reaction.

Regardless of how the result is arrived at, if you failed you failed. There is no grey area, with multiple choice and negative marking, and a pass/fail threshold. You are the only one who can find out if he has changed your answers to make you fail.

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

Really? How exactly? Seeing as the OP registered their account in March 2019 and has only posted on this thread, how would you be able to confirm any of the details related to this incident?

Unless of course....

I can speak english ..

ILoveYourVibes

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Regardless of how the result is arrived at, if you failed you failed. There is no grey area, with multiple choice and negative marking, and a pass/fail threshold. You are the only one who can find out if he has changed your answers to make you fail.

What if the guy just made the mark up??

If the trainer didn't even look at the test.

galtsdrift

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What if the guy just made the mark up??

If the trainer didn't even look at the test.

He was horrendous at keeping a group engaged, wouldn't do a course with him again if it were free.

dxhound2005

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What if the guy just made the mark up??

If the trainer didn't even look at the test.

The OP is the only person on this thread in a position to find out.

ILoveYourVibes

galtsdrift wrote: »

He was horrendous at keeping a group engaged, wouldn't do a course with him again if it were free.

I wouldn't make a big deal. I would just tell your employer his course was useless and his skills are lacking.

Maybe ask what others thought too.

Your employer needs feedback from you anyway on these things.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

A one day course is still worth bubkes. You sound like you have never worked in any industry ever.

The op has a relationship with their employer probably fostered over at least a year or two. The employer knows the op's work.

They also know probably very little about this trainer in comparison. And this trainer only knows the op one day.

If i were an employer ...and a trainer failed one of my best employees ....or a fairly good one. I know whose side would be on.

You assume an awful lot in your replies to me. And a lot of assumptions about an OP who should be basically unknown to any of us here, right?

So maybe the best thing to do is to stick to what the OP writes rather than trying to reply for them. Seems fair enough, does it not?

galtsdrift

JayZeus wrote: »

You assume an awful lot in your replies to me. And a lot of assumptions about an OP who should be basically unknown to any of us here, right?

So maybe the best thing to do is to stick to what the OP writes rather than trying to reply for them. Seems fair enough, does it not?

You seem very touchy on this. Are you in the training business perhaps?

galtsdrift

galtsdrift wrote: »

You seem very touchy on this. Are you in the training business perhaps?

Not at all. Touchy? Really?

I’ve completed well over 100 certification courses and exams during my career to date.

Some trainers are better than others, but equally so are some participants.

ILoveYourVibes

galtsdrift wrote: »

You seem very touchy on this. Are you in the training business perhaps?

He isn't.

If he was he would know to be nice to clients as they report back to their companies and its THEIR reviews that either secure or destroy your chances of getting another contract.

There are LOTS of trainers out there. Its very competitive.

Even if you had failed terribly the way the guy acted etc is clueless.

galtsdrift

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He isn't.

If he was he would know to be nice to clients as they report back to their companies and its THEIR reviews that either secure or destroy your chances of getting another contract.

There are LOTS of trainers out there. Its very competitive.

Even if you had failed terribly the way the guy acted etc is clueless.

The email on a sunday and noting in the first line of a 3 line email, they number of people who attended and the number who failed, me, was outright unprofessional.

dxhound2005

galtsdrift wrote: »

The email on a sunday and noting in the first line of a 3 line email, they number of people who attended and the number who failed, me, was outright unprofessional.

What are you going to do about it?

Ficheall

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I had to look up what Negative Marking means.
[...really long explanation...]

Did you study Arts by any chance? :P

galtsdrift

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What are you going to do about it?

Just ask to be presented the paper, the marking methodolgy, and ask where in all the website, course literature and hand outs it mentioned such methods are used.

Also ask him to explain the email and in his professional opinion does he feel this apporach is acceptable? And ask if he can understand why I have such concenrs about his integrity and professsionalism.

Then sit back and review the repsonses.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He isn't.

If he was he would know to be nice to clients as they report back to their companies and its THEIR reviews that either secure or destroy your chances of getting another contract.

There are LOTS of trainers out there. Its very competitive.

Even if you had failed terribly the way the guy acted etc is clueless.

If a trainer issues certification, their prifessional integrity with the accrediting body trumps being coerced by difficult participants into passing them for an exam fail for fear of negative feedback to the employer.

The earlier ‘clip their wings’ comment by the OP hints at how they may have set the tone for interaction with this trainer.

galtsdrift

JayZeus wrote: »

If a trainer issues certification, their prifessional integrity with the accrediting body trumps being coerced by difficult participants into passing them for an exam fail for fear of negative feedback to the employer.

The earlier ‘clip their wings’ comment by the OP hints at how they may have set the tone for interaction with this trainer.

Just checked again. The cert is from him and him alone. It's toilet paper.

ILoveYourVibes

OP

I don't know if it's my place to say this. But NEXT time you have a disagreement with a trainer. WAIT...until after the course. Then give your feedback to them either in person or in emails. Be polite but too the point.

I have told people my opinions. Sometimes its been very favorable. As in along the lines of

'I just wanted you to know you are a credit to your industry you are knowledge diligent and personable. I was very impressed.'

If they were poor i say that too.

' I think for your own development you might like to know that you might be lacking in areas of being personable and keeping a group engaged'.

Ask for a copy of your test. don't say why. Just one email and one line

thank you for your email may i request my actual test please for my own interest thank you

Just give your employer your honest opinion about him.

If you feel your test was marked on a whim tell that to your employer too.

I would always give my employer feedback on 'Trainers' both bad and good. Even if they never even tested me. Its useful for the trainer to know too.


Actually most trainers ASK for feedback at the end of the course.

dxhound2005

galtsdrift wrote: »

Just ask to be presented the paper, the marking methodolgy, and ask where in all the website, course literature and hand outs it mentioned such methods are used.

Also ask him to explain the email and in his professional opinion does he feel this apporach is acceptable? And ask if he can understand why I have such concenrs about his integrity and professsionalism.

Then sit back and review the repsonses.

What is the website?

galtsdrift

dxhound2005 wrote: »

What is the website?

Not sure if that helps the situation to post it here

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

If a trainer issues certification, their prifessional integrity with the accrediting body trumps being coerced by difficult participants into passing them for an exam fail for fear of negative feedback to the employer.

The earlier ‘clip their wings’ comment by the OP hints at how they may have set the tone for interaction with this trainer.

It really doesn't in the real world.


Its why i think most one day courses shouldn't issue certs. They are kind of worthless.

galtsdrift

galtsdrift wrote: »

Just ask to be presented the paper, the marking methodolgy, and ask where in all the website, course literature and hand outs it mentioned such methods are used.

Also ask him to explain the email and in his professional opinion does he feel this apporach is acceptable? And ask if he can understand why I have such concenrs about his integrity and professsionalism.

Then sit back and review the repsonses.

As an experienced professional who has just taken a simple one day course and failed the exam where all others passed, my initial reaction would be to find out where I fell short and how inadequate my understanding of the subject matter may be. I’d want to know if I was the only one who failed, or one of 20, 40, 60% who failed.

I’d recognise that it’s better I know in advance and have a chance to prepare to discuss it on Monday rather than be pulled aside to face the firing squad unprepared.

I’d not read any more into a 3 line email than what is written. I’d politely ask if I could resit the exam and enquire about what’s the timeframe and cost to do so. I’d reflect on the fact that I was sent there to complete a course and pass an exam, not to lock horns with the trainer.

I’d take a conciliatory approach to a trainer I rubbed the wrong way to get on with the task at hand, rather than think two wrongs make a right.

galtsdrift

JayZeus wrote: »

As an experienced professional who has just taken a simple one day course and failed the exam where all others passed, my initial reaction would be to find out where I fell short and how inadequate my understanding of the subject matter may be. I’d want to know if I was the only one who failed, or one of 20, 40, 60% who failed.

I’d recognise that it’s better I know in advance and have a chance to prepare to discuss it on Monday rather than be pulled aside to face the firing squad unprepared.

I’d not read any more into a 3 line email than what is written. I’d politely ask if I could resit the exam and enquire about what’s the timeframe and cost to do so. I’d reflect on the fact that I was sent there to complete a course and pass an exam, not to lock horns with the trainer.

I’d take a conciliatory approach to a trainer I rubbed the wrong way to get on with the task at hand, rather than think two wrongs make a right.

Thanks for the lenghty response. I would rather resign my job the bow to that trainer. He's an eejit and an extremely dislikable one. I will ask him to explain himself knowing that I really don't care where this is going.

ILoveYourVibes

JayZeus wrote: »

I’d take a conciliatory approach to a trainer I rubbed the wrong way to get on with the task at hand, rather than think two wrongs make a right.

Why ..you are never going to see this guy again?

galtsdrift

galtsdrift wrote: »

Thanks for the lenghty response. I would rather resign my job the bow to that trainer. He's an eejit and an extremely dislikable one. I will ask him to explain himself knowing that I really don't care where this is going.

Ah, After Hours.

ILoveYourVibes

galtsdrift wrote: »

Thanks for the lenghty response. I would rather resign my job the bow to that trainer. He's an eejit and an extremely dislikable one. I will ask him to explain himself knowing that I really don't care where this is going.

That's a bit extreme you have to suck it up to gob****es sometimes. You just have to fake it.

You sexy rebel you!

I would tell hr though. This of all the things people think hr aren't interested in ..IS.

They don't want to waste money on trainers who fail people because they don't personally like them.

galtsdrift

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That's a bit extreme you have to suck it up to gob****es sometimes. You just have to fake it.

You sexy rebel you!

Not really, I'm indifferent about the job, prefered my old one and I'm the most pig headed person you've seen when it comes to principle. I have a belief you must always be ready to fall on your sword at a moments notice if your principles are questioned.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That's a bit extreme you have to suck it up to gob****es sometimes. You just have to fake it.

You sexy rebel you!

I would tell hr though. This of all the things people think hr aren't interested in ..IS.

They don't want to waste money on trainers who fail people because they don't personally like them.

Hmmmm.

dxhound2005

galtsdrift wrote: »

Thanks for the lenghty response. I would rather resign my job the bow to that trainer. He's an eejit and an extremely dislikable one. I will ask him to explain himself knowing that I really don't care where this is going.

You should still be prepared for the possibility that you failed, and your were the only one that failed. As I said before the key is the Negative Marking method, which despite your confidence about your answers, with a 40 question paper could render you a fail result.

Purple Mountain

Surely he should be conversing with your employer and they should be the ones following up the result and your query of same?

ILoveYourVibes

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You should still be prepared for the possibility that you failed, and your were the only one that failed. As I said before the key is the Negative Marking method, which despite your confidence about your answers, with a 40 question paper could render you a fail result.

True. However the trainers attitude is still sub par.

And there are plenty of other trainers and course to send people on out there.

dxhound2005

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

True. However the trainers attitude is still sub par.

And there are plenty of other trainers and course to send people on out there.

As reported by the OP. Who holds him in a degree of contempt. I would not make a judgement from what is on this thread.

I would rather resign my job the bow to that trainer. He's an eejit and an extremely dislikable one.