Rent a Room issue.

imokyrok

My lodger moved his girlfriend in and is refusing to pay extra rent for her. I want them to leave. When they do would I be entitled to withhold the amount due from his deposit.

D3V!L

Change the locks and put their stuff outside.

Heres Johnny

imokyrok wrote: »

My lodger moved his girlfriend in and is refusing to pay extra rent for her. I want them to leave. When they do would I be entitled to withhold the amount due from his deposit.

No, just tell him to leave and give him his deposit back. What grounds do you have to hold deposit? I'd defo get him to leave though, that's not on. I presume this is your house and he is just renting a room?

Telly

You can keep whatever is owed for bills from it if he's not going to pay them. You can kick him out today if you felt like it as he's only renting a room and not the whole house.

TheBoyConor

He's only a lodger renting a room off of you. He is not entitled to any more notice than the time it takes you to barge into the room and hoof the two of them and their stuff out into the street.

dennyk

What is your lodger's notice period in your license agreement? That would still generally apply in this case if you want him out.

Absent a notice period defined in the agreement, even a licensee is entitled to "reasonable notice" of termination. What is "reasonable" is not defined in statute, but it's safe to assume that demanding they leave the same day you serve notice or changing your locks on them without warning is not reasonable. I'd suggest at least a week or two of notice to be safe; even a week might be pushing things, but it's better than nothing. Anything less than a week is much less likely to be considered "reasonable" unless he's only been there for a very short time overall. Also, if you go throwing away his belongings or tossing them outside where they are damaged by exposure to the elements, he can sue you for their value, so don't do anything foolish on that score.

The deposit isn't really covered by law as it's a license agreement, not a tenancy, but if you withhold the deposit without justification, your licensee could sue you for its return and would be more likely to win. Withholding it to cover his rent arrears is probably fine; withholding it just because he moved a second person in even though he has no arrears and did not cause any damage to your property may not be justifiable if it goes to court.

As for the girlfriend, your lodger doesn't have any right to invite guests or other lodgers into your property (unless the license agreement grants him that right, of course), so unless you previously agreed that she could stay there (and have therefore entered into a de facto license agreement with her), you could demand that she leave immediately (or within a reasonably short time frame, e.g. 24/48 hours if she has belongings and such there that she would need to collect). Whether you think that's worth the inevitable conflict that would arise with your lodger is up to you; it might be easier to just leave things be for a couple weeks until your lodger is out themselves.

Also, if your lodger (or his girlfriend) becomes threatening or starts engaging in anti-social behaviour after you serve notice, you can of course call the guards and have him removed straight away at that point.

Fol20

Did you tell him from the beginning that his GF is allowed stay or did he just move her in without asking and she is staying there 7 days a week or just a day a week? If its the former, this is very cheeky and i would want him out sooner rather than later

It looks like your relationship as broken down irregardless and you cant come back from it. Hand him his notice. There is no protections for him so you can be the judge of a fair notice period. To keep conflict down, it might be better to provide some notice than none at all.

I would recommend changing the locks to protect yourself after he gone.

Unless he owes you money, or he has damaged the property, you are not entitled to keep his deposit. Its also not worth the hassle or headaches so just be practical and use your common sense in keeping his deposit if required.

Salary Negotiator

Kick her out immediately, she's no right to be there and either give him reasonable notice to move out or whatever notice is contained in the licence agreement (if one exists).

Samuel T. Cogley

imokyrok wrote: »

My lodger moved his girlfriend in and is refusing to pay extra rent for her. I want them to leave. When they do would I be entitled to withhold the amount due from his deposit.

There is no 'amount due' as no new contract was formed. Give him (them) notice, withhold for bills if they're not included and refund the rest. Once the bills are paid refund any money left. Personally I dont bother keeping money back for the bills it's not worth the hassle.

TheBoyConor

On the rent a room scheme, as a homeowner you are better off not having a written licence agreement because if you have one you could well be held to it, possibly to your detriment. Better off just keeping it causal and then if it goes pear shaped, nothing is written down and you can just decide for yourself what is reasonable.

Just to reiterate, a lodger is not a tenant. They are little more than a house guest and can be asked to leave at any moment.

Does anyone have any links or reference to a court case where a homeowner was prosecuted over not giving reasonable notice? While I think of it, since it is not defined by statute, there can be no offence as such, right?

I agree on the bills. for the sake of €50 or whatever, it is not worth the hassle. I rather foot the bills and get rid of the lodgers even if there were arrears. There is a housing shortage, you can replace them in the morning. And you should tell them that you can and will replace them if you see fit.

Samuel T. Cogley

It would be a civil issue and case law would apply, it doesn't have to be a statute, that's not even a requirement for criminal cases.

dennyk

TheBoyConor wrote: »

On the rent a room scheme, as a homeowner you are better off not having a written licence agreement because if you have one you could well be held to it, possibly to your detriment. Better off just keeping it causal and then if it goes pear shaped, nothing is written down and you can just decide for yourself what is reasonable.

Does anyone have any links or reference to a court case where a homeowner was prosecuted over not giving reasonable notice? While I think of it, since it is not defined by statute, there can be no offence as such, right?

On the contrary, you're far better off having a license agreement than not, as then the agreement will govern and there is no ambiguity around notice periods and such. Provided you aren't foolish enough to put down terms that are disadvantageous to you, it's always better to have the terms of any agreement clearly defined in writing.

Failure to give reasonable notice isn't a criminal offence, but the courts have historically held that a licensee must be given a reasonable amount of time following the serving of a notice to vacate the premises, and that the property owner can't pursue legal means of regaining possession until such reasonable time has passed. As such, an attempt to legally have a licensee evicted before a reasonable time has passed is likely to be rejected by the court, and if you were to perform a "self-help" removal (e.g. changing the locks on them), you could potentially be liable for damages (e.g. the cost of whatever short-term accommodations they have to procure due to your improper eviction).

It's also worth noting, given the current rental crisis, that the courts' view has been that the definition of a "reasonable time" also includes the time needed to find alternative accommodation, so this may not be a matter you really want going before the courts in the first place unless you fancy having your unwanted houseguest hanging around for a good long time or covering weeks or months of hotel costs for them as they search for a new place after you improperly kicked them out. The longer a notice period you give them in the first place, the less likely they're going to be to bother challenging it and the less likely they'll be successful if they do.

This document is quite a good read about the matter of licenses in Ireland in general, and the section "Revoking residential licences – Under contract’s terms or with
adequate packing-up periods" on page 125 specifically discusses the matter of "reasonable notice" for revoking a license and cites several relevant court cases on the subject (British cases, granted, but still referenced as non-binding precedent by the Irish courts).

imokyrok

Thanks. A lot to unpack in the advice. It seems I will need to return his deposit in full. I've told him to look for somewhere else if he isnt willing to pay for his girlfriend. I had stated in the advert that a couple would only be considered at additional cost. He sneakily waited until he was here a few weeks and said his girlfriend was visiting and might be interested in moving in. I stated that would be ok if she paid an extra €200 a month which I think was very fair. He moved her in and then refused to pay extra. I think I'll reiterate that he has until next months due rental to find somewhere else.

This is my second lodger and the first was a woman who was a raving alcoholic and created constant drama and I had to ask her to leave after 6 months. I'm not having much luck!

enricoh

Are u in Dublin? Get someone from the country who works in Dublin mon- fri. Do it 5 day only .
E200 extra only n they still refused! Out the door , pronto! Probably thinks he can bully u into it

Samuel T. Cogley

imokyrok wrote: »

Thanks. A lot to unpack in the advice. It seems I will need to return his deposit in full. I've told him to look for somewhere else if he isnt willing to pay for his girlfriend. I had stated in the advert that a couple would only be considered at additional cost. He sneakily waited until he was here a few weeks and said his girlfriend was visiting and might be interested in moving in. I stated that would be ok if she paid an extra €200 a month which I think was very fair. He moved her in and then refused to pay extra. I think I'll reiterate that he has until next months due rental to find somewhere else.

This is my second lodger and the first was a woman who was a raving alcoholic and created constant drama and I had to ask her to leave after 6 months. I'm not having much luck!

Where are you finding these people? I live in what was traditionally a bit of a rough area; been renting a room for years and never had anything but excellent tenants.

imokyrok

Unfortunately I'm a bit off the beaten track outside of Rush so not madly in demand for a nurse or similar.

imokyrok

enricoh wrote: »

Are u in Dublin? Get someone from the country who works in Dublin mon- fri. Do it 5 day only .
E200 extra only n they still refused! Out the door , pronto! Probably thinks he can bully u into it

He likely does think a widow will be a pushover especially since I'm an easy going person generally but once I have my buttons pushed I'm no ones pushover. Plus thankfully my two adult sons live here too.

Tell him you will also be keeping 200 euro per week from his deposit to cover the extra cost of his gf staying.

I wouldn’t give him anymore than a weeks notice either to move out.

Mic 1972

imokyrok wrote: »

He likely does think a widow will be a pushover especially since I'm an easy going person generally but once I have my buttons pushed I'm no ones pushover. Plus thankfully my two adult sons live here too.

You can also involve the garda, i did it once on a lodger who had become abusive with me, the garda came over and talked to him and told him he should leave the next day. He was gone in the morning

..and you should keep the 200 euro from deposit

Fia11

That's a horrible situation. I'm glad you have your sons with you and are not alone in your home with potentially hostile tenants. Hope it works out and you get someone nice and quiet in after.

1874

imokyrok wrote: »

Thanks. A lot to unpack in the advice. It seems I will need to return his deposit in full. I've told him to look for somewhere else if he isnt willing to pay for his girlfriend. I had stated in the advert that a couple would only be considered at additional cost. He sneakily waited until he was here a few weeks and said his girlfriend was visiting and might be interested in moving in. I stated that would be ok if she paid an extra €200 a month which I think was very fair. He moved her in and then refused to pay extra. I think I'll reiterate that he has until next months due rental to find somewhere else.

This is my second lodger and the first was a woman who was a raving alcoholic and created constant drama and I had to ask her to leave after 6 months. I'm not having much luck!

No you wont, thats what a deposit is for any costs.
Tell them you'll be deducting what she has stayed for from the deposit, and Include what you consider for bills, first and foremost kick her out now and tell them you will involve the Gardai, or if they suddenly agree to pay then charge them more than original amount for the inconvenience to you.
You can kick either them out with a days notice if you decide so, all you have to do is interpet anything they say as hostile, if them refusing to pay you is that, so be it, call the Gardai and say they are refusing to pay and leave, that seems to be the case.
Personally Id have a no threats or leave immediately without any refund clause, although the person that says not to give them any written contract is correct and the people that say otherwise are WRONG.

Kyleigh Happy Organ wrote: »

Tell him you will also be keeping 200 euro per week from his deposit to cover the extra cost of his gf staying.
I wouldn’t give him anymore than a weeks notice either to move out.

Id give the girlfriend zero notice, ie as long as it takes to pack her bags and Id tell them if she is not gone in 60 seconds Id call the Gardai, if I was the OP, if it was me, Id tell them they have 60 seconds and then physically throw her out, Id give him a weeks notice or on the spot if there has been any hostility or threats, or if his girlfriend returns, out on the spot for him.


Im a bloke and Ive let rooms in my home before, some people will just try to take the piss, is OP a woman alone? couples can be a nightmare, get rid of them