Estimating renovation costs before making an offer

Shellie

Hi, I'm looking at some properties that would need some serious renovation, and I'm struggling to find out how to get a realistic idea of the costs. I've looked at some breakdown costs of renovations and recent average construction costs which range from 1k-2k/sqm so I have some idea, but the spread is quite wide. With this amount of variance and knowing that construction costs are increasing (and being a first timer), I want to make sure I know what I'm getting into, and not be surprised by being €100k out on estimates further into the process.

Who is the best type of person to get a good estimate from on a property? Would it be a surveyor, an architect, a contractor or a quantity surveyor? I'd love any advice on who would walk through a property and give a realistic estimate of the work required and the likely cost. (I'm aware that there will be a cost for this)

peteb2

Get a builder. Bring him in with you. But they tend to be very hard to get.

Sarn

I know some people in work that are considering work in Dublin and they mentioned 2.5-3k/sqm.

COLONELsANDERS

A builder will walk through the house and give you a quote. We had about 8 builders through various properties we were interested in before settling on one.

As an aside , we found a good rule of thumb is 1k per SQM to finish to a decent standard ( 12k kitchen , 5k bathroom , laminate flooring etc). This would not include structural work( roof etc ) or extensions. This is the cost we found to 'modernize' an older house to a comfortable modern standard. Heating, rewire, replumb, bathroom, kitchen, flooring, decoration, windows, house wrapped and attic insulation. Add more for fancy kitchen, walls coming down etc.

If it's a period home you would need to add more onto that.

Gumbo

€1k is an ok rule of thumb for doing up an existing house.
But as mentioned above, that’s just direct replacement, so no extensions, no structural works, no wall removal and open plan creation etc

For new works, budget €2k for a good level of finish on the new works.

heebusjeebus

We've recently renovated a house. Complete gutting of the old structure and new services laid, new windows, new insulation etc.
We bought the house estimating 1.5K /sqm but when we started the tendering that was blown out of the water.
Finally ended with near 3k / sqm but that included all fittings & decoration.

C3PO

COLONELsANDERS wrote: »

A builder will walk through the house and give you a quote. We had about 8 builders through various properties we were interested in before settling on one.

In the current climate, I would be very surprised if you could get many decent builders to spend time walking through a house and giving you a quote for a job on a house that you may or may not buy!

Idbatterim

WHere is the house ? Can you do any work yourself? Many people would be far better off just buying a house you can move right into or requires minimal work...

Shellie

Thanks for all the feedback and advice! The range of 1.5K - 3k/sqm in a 150sqm house is quite a big spread ��

We've looked at a few houses that we're interested in, mostly period properties near Dublin. We know we'll need a big budget for works, and we're not put off by that, it's just tricky to get an estimate factoring the specific needs of each house, to make sure we have a realistic sense of the total cost before bidding.

I contacted a few construction companies but didn't hear back (not too surprised), so don't know who I can get. Would a QS be helpful here? Or would offering to pay a builder for a few hours of a walkthrough be a better approach?

antoinolachtnai

Shellie wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback and advice! The range of 1.5K - 3k/sqm in a 150sqm house is quite a big spread ��

We've looked at a few houses that we're interested in, mostly period properties near Dublin. We know we'll need a big budget for works, and we're not put off by that, it's just tricky to get an estimate factoring the specific needs of each house, to make sure we have a realistic sense of the total cost before bidding.

I contacted a few construction companies but didn't hear back (not too surprised), so don't know who I can get. Would a QS be helpful here? Or would offering to pay a builder for a few hours of a walkthrough be a better approach?

The problem is that any estimate is going to be just that, an estimate.

A QS is good for costing world that is clearly understood.

An architect should be good for deciding what is the work that can most advantageously be done.

You really need a bit of both.

What makes the problem harder is that even with the best architect and QS, there will always be uncertainty about a period property. No one really knows what lies underneath the finishings.

The other thing is that no one can predict the future direction of construction costs or the availability of labour. So even the best QS in the world can only tell you what the work would cost to do today, not in six months time.

Also bear in mind, that your project is unlikely to attract the best QS and best architect. It’s really hard to assess the quality of professionals or builders if you don’t have a lot of industry knowledge. If you talk to builders in dublin who have worked with famous names from the tellybox they will tell you that problems that arise (though these comments may well tell as much about the builder who made them as about the famous name).

Another issue is the degree of renovation. For example, there is the question of renewing the roof. Every roof needs to be renewed eventually, probably some time between the 100th and 200th year. The question is whether you want to do it now, or put it off for another decade or two or even longer. It’s really a personal decision as much as anything else. Similar issues arise to differing degrees in relation to most aspects of an old house (or as its called in the polite press ‘a period property’).

So assessing the project in itself ends up being very complex. You could potentially use all sorts of professionals to help you but the overall budget of the project probably means you need to find a builder (for small projects) or one professional (for larger projects) who can keep you on track.

I would strongly consider buying a house that is already in good shape (but perhaps needing a decorative refresh) to avoid these issues as much as possible. Grand Designs and Room to Improve are good TV programs but consider carefully whether you really need to enact an episode in your own life.

Idbatterim

say you buy one of these and do it up and believe me, you will be gouged and have endless stress trying to get builders etc. Will you save any money on moving into the finished product from the get go op?

Ive heard of people buying do-er uppers and selling them on a few months later, when reality hits!

A number of my mates were looking at do-er uppers, the figures dont stack up, not with the cost of building in dublin, if you arent handy yourself...

enricoh

As idbatterim said. If yer oul boy was a retired builder with plenty of contacts n could do a good bit- fair enough.
Not knowing anyone, no offence - but you are going to be a lamb to the slaughter!
If yer loaded - no problem, plenty of money will solve not knowing anyone!

COLONELsANDERS

Alot of negativity here towards the builders ! We went sale agreed on a house over the summer. We contacted 4 builders. All four came around and quoted for us. Was no issue getting a builder to look at the house. We ended up not going ahead with that house for other reasons.

We then went sale agreed on another house and subsequently bought it. We had four builders around again, two from the previous house and two recommended by neighbors. One was available immediately but we were least convinced by him. One ghosted us after quoting, one took another job and the one we really wanted was available to start with a two month lag. We commissioned him, he started on time and has delivered the project on time and on budget with a cost around 1k per SQM.

Overall experience has been positive and we effectively have a brand new house designed exactly as we wish.

Not sure how many people answering have commissioned a builder to take on a major project over the last six months but we have and it went fine.

Gumbo

COLONELsANDERS wrote: »

Alot of negativity here towards the builders ! We went sale agreed on a house over the summer. We contacted 4 builders. All four came around and quoted for us. Was no issue getting a builder to look at the house. We ended up not going ahead with that house for other reasons.

We then went sale agreed on another house and subsequently bought it. We had four builders around again, two from the previous house and two recommended by neighbors. One was available immediately but we were least convinced by him. One ghosted us after quoting, one took another job and the one we really wanted was available to start with a two month lag. We commissioned him, he started on time and has delivered the project on time and on budget with a cost around 1k per SQM.

Overall experience has been positive and we effectively have a brand new house designed exactly as we wish.

Not sure how many people answering have commissioned a builder to take on a major project over the last six months but we have and it went fine.

There's a difference between appointing a builder for works and bringing a builder to viewings to help price possible works.

Can you detail what you got done for 1k Sq. M as I have also mentioned that standard finishing can be done for this in an existing house.

COLONELsANDERS

kceire wrote: »

There's a difference between appointing a builder for works and bringing a builder to viewings to help price possible works.

Can you detail what you got done for 1k Sq. M as I have also mentioned that standard finishing can be done for this in an existing house.

Had no issues bringing builders or appointing a builder.

House 110sqm

House gutted and cleared Rewire/replumb& heating/flooring/bathroom/kitchen/ painting internally/ one structural wall opened between sitting and kitchen.
Outside; drains dug and replaced / deck / windows and front door. / House wrapped / attic insulated.

We didn't look at an number of houses due to people telling us it would cost 2 to 3 k per sqm to renovate. I'm not sure what people are spending their money on but it just didn't cost us that at all.

hurleronditch

COLONELsANDERS wrote: »

Had no issues bringing builders or appointing a builder.

House 110sqm

House gutted and cleared Rewire/replumb& heating/flooring/bathroom/kitchen/ painting internally/ one structural wall opened between sitting and kitchen.
Outside; drains dug and replaced / deck / windows and front door. / House wrapped / attic insulated.

We didn't look at an number of houses due to people telling us it would cost 2 to 3 k per sqm to renovate. I'm not sure what people are spending their money on but it just didn't cost us that at all.

Was this in the greater Dublin area? If so you might PM me the builders name or share it here

COLONELsANDERS

hurleronditch wrote: »

Was this in the greater Dublin area? If so you might PM me the builders name or share it here

Hi. It was in the Dublin area. I'm happy to pass him on your details if you PM them onto me.

Idbatterim

enricoh wrote: »

As idbatterim said. If yer oul boy was a retired builder with plenty of contacts n could do a good bit- fair enough.
Not knowing anyone, no offence - but you are going to be a lamb to the slaughter!
If yer loaded - no problem, plenty of money will solve not knowing anyone!

its a period property aswell! Youre not doing up 100 square foot! If you want someone to project manage it all for you and are prepared to get done on price. Go for it. If you have a large amount of money you are prepared to land out, then its very doable...

Many people have absolutely no idea what they are getting themselves into cost and commitment wise! Thats not a reference to the op by the way. He or she might have a vision of doing the place up etc, but I would be seriously seeing if its in any way worthwhile! A lot of the houses my mates sent me recently, do-er upper v ready to move in, the big job bo-er uppers, made absolutely no sense!

Cuddlesworth

COLONELsANDERS wrote: »

We didn't look at an number of houses due to people telling us it would cost 2 to 3 k per sqm to renovate. I'm not sure what people are spending their money on but it just didn't cost us that at all.

I used to work in the building trade, it was usually very hard for anybody to get somebody in 4-5 years down the line after dirt cheap work was done.

society4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111817948#Comment_111817948

Please could you pm me the name of your builder. Thanks

J_1980

https://www.renova.ie/faqs/#toggle-id-2

their Faq have 2-3k for end of 2022.

it’s SCD, so probably less down the country.

society4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564791#Comment_120564791

Xo

J_1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618046#Comment_120618046

Like how much per sqm?

Yellow_Fern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111817792#Comment_111817792

They like these big jobs. Can be much harder with small projects.

Cork2021

my wife and I have found a house built mid 70’s D2 energy rating approx 177sq metres 4 bed detached in Cork which has an attached garage and workshop.

when viewing it we knew it’d need work but 4 rooms and hallways need cosmetic work new flooring painting etc. needs a retrofit heating etc.

we would have around €120k to spend to renovate and insulate….

anyone any other experience with something similar?

we would be knocking a wall or two downstairs, there’s stud walls upstairs, where we’d want to create a larger family bathroom and a possible en suite

riclad

If you are thinking about buying an old house ,first you get a structural survey, this will state problems ,eg dry rot, or basic work ,repairs that needs to be done and it will give a rough estimate of the cost .http://www.macswarehouse.ie/ if you are prepared to buy recycled materials , pvc windows ,doors, tiles,building materials , some old house s have very little insulation in walls or attic , you can buy building materials on advert.ie or even get some things free.https://www.adverts.ie/results/door+and+window

https://www.adverts.ie/door-windows/doors-and-windows/30318889

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/dublin/interior-doors/