Ideas for 4x4

ABitofsense

I'm looking to get a 4x4 for towing & general farm work. It will only ever be 5-6 weanlings or a couple of cows at a time. My commute is 90km a day too for work then on top so trying to get something with semi decent mpg & crew cab/ back seats for kids!

I like the L200 but the Mrs wants something less farmery. What are people using outside the normal pickup, land cruisers etc? Are the Tiguan or Kuga 4x4 2.5t towing version any good? Budget 10-15k

josephsoap

ABitofsense wrote: »

I'm looking to get a 4x4 for towing & general farm work. It will only ever be 5-6 weanlings or a couple of cows at a time. My commute is 90km a day too for work then on top so trying to get something with semi decent mpg & crew cab/ back seats for kids!

I like the L200 but the Mrs wants something less farmery. What are people using outside the normal pickup, land cruisers etc? Are the Tiguan or Kuga 4x4 2.5t towing version any good? Budget 10-15k

What size trailer how you ?

Have a SWB landcruiser 3.0 D4D and can’t fault it, if you need seats in the back I would get it hard to look past a crewcab landcruiser

Albert Johnson

josephsoap wrote: »

What size trailer how you ?

Have a SWB landcruiser 3.0 D4D and can’t fault it, if you need seats in the back I would get it hard to look past a crewcab landcruiser

The towing capacity may be a limiting factor regarding some of the more SUV type 4x4's. A couple of cow's or 5 weanlings will be 1200-1500kgs plus the weight of the trailer. Either way your talking circa 2 ton and I don't think there's many SUV's rated for those sort of towing weights.

Fuel efficiency is going to be another stumbling block, 90km is a fair distance daily. I had a lwb D4D Land cruiser and found it hard on fuel, 22-25 mpg and less if towing. Having changed to a 08 Ford ranger I'm averaging circa 30 mpg doing the same driving.

I don't know what to recommend but I'd definitely take towing ability, fuel efficiency and comfort into consideration before committing to any potential purchase. On the face of it a crewcab such as a Hilux, L200, Ranger ect would seem the best bet at least imo.

josephsoap

Albert Johnson wrote: »

The towing capacity may be a limiting factor regarding some of the more SUV type 4x4's. A couple of cow's or 5 weanlings will be 1200-1500kgs plus the weight of the trailer. Either way your talking circa 2 ton and I don't think there's many SUV's rated for those sort of towing weights.

Fuel efficiency is going to be another stumbling block, 90km is a fair distance daily. I had a lwb D4D Land cruiser and found it hard on fuel, 22-25 mpg and less if towing. Having changed to a 08 Ford ranger I'm averaging circa 30 mpg doing the same driving.

I don't know what to recommend but I'd definitely take towing ability, fuel efficiency and comfort into consideration before committing to any potential purchase. On the face of it a crewcab such as a Hilux, L200, Ranger ect would seem the best bet at least imo.

Yeah it’s a fair bit daily, you would be talking €60 of diesel a week @ 30 MPG just for the commute.

DukeCaboom

After a couple of l200s here and love them. The bang you get for your buck compared to a Land Cruiser or ranger is a no brainer.

Albert Johnson

DukeCaboom wrote: »

After a couple of l200s here and love them. The bang you get for your buck compared to a Land Cruiser or ranger is a no brainer.

I've no real experience of the L200's although there getting very popular in recent years. The comment regarding value for money is a valid point also. Toyota and particularly Land cruiser's are over priced imo, a decent 10 year old cruiser will be the best part of €15,000 and it's a lot of money for what it is. The likes of a Mitsubishi, Isuzu will be better value and should do as good a good particularly in lighter work like what the OP has mentioned above.

DukeCaboom

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I've no real experience of the L200's although there getting very popular in recent years. The comment regarding value for money is a valid point also. Toyota and particularly Land cruiser's are over priced imo, a decent 10 year old cruiser will be the best part of €15,000 and it's a lot of money for what it is. The likes of a Mitsubishi, Isuzu will be better value and should do as good a good particularly in lighter work like what the OP has mentioned above.

Well if I spend 40k or 5k on a jeep I'm still going drive it through fields of cattle it will get banged up or bumped into.

Albert Johnson

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Well if I spend 40k or 5k on a jeep I'm still going drive it through fields of cattle it will get banged up or bumped into.

My thoughts exactly, I rather the jeep gets the hardship than myself. It was one of the reasons I changed to a pickup​ from a jeep, I don't mind walking but carrying stuff isn't good for you in the long term. At least you can trade the jeep if it gets real battered but you only get the one back, set of hips, knee's ect. I use the jeep as required and try to mind it where possible but it still gets lots of abuse and does whatever is required on the day. I don't know could I stomach paying €50,000 for a cruiser to do the same thing, I see the new DMax is €27,000 for a single cab. I'd be tempted the next time around, keep it for 5 years and trade again.

bigroad

What about a Hyundai Santa fe or kia Sorento. 2.2 crdi.can get up to 40mpg on a run and I hey have decent towing ability.

Bass Reeves

bigroad wrote: »

What about a Hyundai Santa fe or kia Sorento. 2.2 crdi.can get up to 40mpg on a run and I hey have decent towing ability.

The Santa Fe I'd back at 32 mpg. Your commute is 500/ week. Expect to have another 150/ week on general running around without allowing for farming milage. You be doing 35k or 22k miles. I presume you are looking for something in the 10-12k bracket.

The RAV and Kuga will both do 40 mpg. Both will tow 2 ton.. The Kuga's has an issue with it rear suspension and can wear tyres after high milage and a bit of towing. VW Tiguan is similar but tends to give issues, Kia Sportage is another option but is heavier on fuel back a bit with 35 mpg. Suzuki Vitara is another option but fuel is again mid 30's. Finally you have the Honda Civic it about 38 mpg.

Price wise the Honda is the most expensive cat tax.is 750/ year.a 2010 one with 170-200km will cost 9-11k hard enough to come across

RAV 2010 2.2L with 390/570 tax 7-8k will buy you a clean one.

Tiguan hard to get a lowish milage one but plenty of them around 7-10 k will buy uoumone Tax is 570 I think on 2010 one.

Sportage you have to go to 2011 to get newer model. 7-10k will get a clean low milage 2L , Tax is 570.
Vitara are very hard to get tax is 750 prices are hard to gauge but a low milage one 2010-2012 7-10k.

Pick is the RAV IMO especially if doing high milage. Lads that are not doing high milage but you are looking at 1350 in fuel costs alone between a LC and a RAV or similar type smaller jeeps and at least 1k over crew cabs of that age

A lot depends on how much you need 4wd or is it for towing you need it.

Albert Johnson

As usual Bass has put a handle on the various options regarding all things SUV. I think the OP has to first decide whether it's an actual "jeep" he requires or if an SUV type vehicle will fulfill his needs.

Bass mentioned 4wd and whether you need it for towing, if you're intending leaving the tar road then 4wd is a must imo. If towing heavy loads then you'll need a low box to save the clutch, I don't know if many of the SUV's have a low box. The older Vitara's had but I don't know if this is true of the newer models. I had to load cattle on a hilly, grassy laneway this morning and only for the 4wl I would have been ringing someone with a tractor for a tow. Fuel efficiency will be a sacrifice if buying a more full fat jeep but it will bring it's own advantages as regards off road ability and towing. If you're spending the money it's as well to future proof and buy something slightly ahead of what you think necessary.

Bass Reeves

As Albert has said OP the first thing you need to decide is how much you need the 4wd. IMO unless you are going into grassy lanes and steep gravley hills most can manage without full 4wd.

If you need a low box then really from a cat tax point of view a crew cab is the only option. However if all your towing is on roads 4wd even on an SUV is not really necessary.. I know no mart where I need 4wd to access. In most cases it not really necessary when towing at the level you intend sub 2 ton it may involve unloading cattle at a field gate rather than carrying them into a field .

I disagree with Albert on future proofing. With your level of milage any SUV you buy especially back in the years will only last you 5-6 years at most as after 5 years you will have put 160k km on it. Taking a small jeep with 180-200 k up into the mid 300's. For regular commutes it more than likely have got unreliable at that stage and often is more efficient to sell on for 1-3k and upgrade those 5-6 years again.

Even crew cabs will be rough after that milage and a seated LC or similar large jeep is not an option. If towing to fragmented land a trailer for the tractor is often a good option

Albert Johnson

By future proofing I meant buying a vehicle that will do what's intended of it on a daily basis with relative ease. The OP is doing a fair commute each day and reliability will be king no matter what he buys. I don't see the point in buying something that's just about up to the task and tearing the arse out of it every time something​slightly heavier than normal is undertaken. Any vehicle that is working at it's limit or near it constantly is prone to failure and with a commute each day you need something reliable, sit in, turn the key and away.

For all the hate that jeeps get regarding fuel efficiency and the like I've only ever encountered one man who changed back to a van because and I quote "you'd be robbed keeping diesel in that hoor of a thing". He bought a brand new 141 caddy and proceeded to wreck it within 18 months because he expected it to do what a Land cruiser did with relative ease every day. After seeing how the caddy fared he went out and bought a brand new Hilux and is now on his second and swears by a jeep. Yes there harder ran and maintained than a car or van but if you've work for a proper 4x4 there a serious and irreplaceable tool.

I've a 2018 sorento.... 37mpg average.
No low range but has locking dif function.
I reckon itd tow fnck all regularly really regardless of what it claims it can.

Clutches are meant to really not be fond of a load.

Mooooo

Auto may be a better bet if towing

wrangler

Augeo wrote: »

I've a 2018 sorento.... 37mpg average.
No low range but has locking dif function.
I reckon itd tow fnck all regularly really regardless of what it claims it can.

Clutches are meant to really not be fond of a load.

We've often put the trailer on the cars here, pulling it is no problem but they were all too high geared in reverse and took a lot of slipping the clutch to reverse it

Albert Johnson

wrangler wrote: »

We've often put the trailer on the cars here, pulling it is no problem but they were all too high geared in reverse and took a lot of slipping the clutch to reverse it

I agree about riding the clutch reversing and the same trying to get moving at hilly junctions ect. Any sort of a middling yolk will tow something when you get it moving, it's getting started and stopped that's​ the difficult part. It's a personal decision but I prefer spending a bit more on fuel but have a vehicle that's well capable of doing what I ask 99% of the time versus saving a bit on fuel efficiency but sacrificing towing and off road ability.

Damo810

Has anyone any opinions on the 2L Amarok? What is their towing capacity&MPG?

ABitofsense

Thanks for all the responses. A good bit to think about.

It'll be pulling a 10ft ifor trailer of my neighbour for the next while mostly in the summer, mart drops & collections for myself. So I could get away with less so I'll check out all listed.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

We've often put the trailer on the cars here, pulling it is no problem but they were all too high geared in reverse and took a lot of slipping the clutch to reverse it

Yeah....all well and good but as Albert J summed up it's not great to have a yoke that's not quite comfy doing what you need it do.

wrangler

Augeo wrote: »

Yeah....all well and good but as Albert J summed up it's not great to have a yoke that's not quite comfy doing what you need it do.

It's only if the hilux isn't available that the trailer is on the car, trailer is 12 by 5 :eek:

Hard Knocks

wrangler wrote: »

It's only if the hilux isn't available that the trailer is on the car, trailer is 12 by 5 :eek:

You’ve a quite OH
Lots would be killed for less

Jb1989

Hard Knocks wrote: »

You’ve a quite OH
Lots would be killed for less

Depends if she bought the car herself, if was joint or the husband bought, then foot would be put down as to it being used for farm if needed.

wrangler

Jb1989 wrote: »

Depends if she bought the car herself, if was joint or the husband bought, then foot would be put down as to it being used for farm if needed.

Years ago We had to bring the 12 by 5 on the puegeot 407 to the ploughing to collect sheep on the last day, puegeot had some weird traction control that engaged as soon as you started spinning. It got out of the carpark when even some of the jeeps got it hard. The revs would drop to walking pace automatically and the drive go to the wheels alternatively

Jb1989

wrangler wrote: »

Years ago We had to bring the 12 by 5 on the puegeot 407 to the ploughing to collect sheep on the last day, puegeot had some weird traction control that engaged as soon as you started spinning. It got out of the carpark when even some of the jeeps got it hard. The revs would drop to walking pace automatically and the drive go to the wheels alternatively

A good car and a sensible wife.

wrangler

Jb1989 wrote: »

A good car and a sensible wife.

Yea we had the 407 for 12 years, never gave any trouble, some of them gave a lot of electrical trouble,we have a 3008 now, nice car too.
We'd never have a big load in the trailer, we never drew cattle and have no decks so the full of it was only a ton of lambs.

Jb1989

wrangler wrote: »

Yea we had the 407 for 12 years, never gave any trouble, some of them gave a lot of electrical trouble,we have a 3008 now, nice car too.
We'd never have a big load in the trailer, we never drew cattle and have no decks so the full of it was only a ton of lambs.

Suited both your needs perfect.

Vittu

ABitofsense wrote: »

I'm looking to get a 4x4 for towing & general farm work. It will only ever be 5-6 weanlings or a couple of cows at a time. My commute is 90km a day too for work then on top so trying to get something with semi decent mpg & crew cab/ back seats for kids!

I like the L200 but the Mrs wants something less farmery. What are people using outside the normal pickup, land cruisers etc? Are the Tiguan or Kuga 4x4 2.5t towing version any good? Budget 10-15k

Why not spend the bulk of the budget on a family car so it does the daily commute cheaply and comfortably and buy a used 4x4 for the occasional towing work.

Jb1989

Vittu wrote: »

Why not spend the bulk of the budget on a family car so it does the daily commute cheaply and comfortably and buy a used 4x4 for the occasional towing work.

And possibly a 30 year old jeep if you could source one, vintage insurance on it, milage and towing on a limit, but has merit for a suitable person,

wrangler

Jb1989 wrote: »

Suited both your needs perfect.

Car is only used if the jeep isn't available, turbo was broke in an L200 at the time we brought the car and trailer to the ploughing

Albert Johnson

Vittu wrote: »

Why not spend the bulk of the budget on a family car so it does the daily commute cheaply and comfortably and buy a used 4x4 for the occasional towing work.

This is something I see a lot of lads at but I have to wonder about the merits of insuring, taxing, testing and maintaining two vehicles. Yes it has it's own benefits but I'd wonder about the financial advantages, I struggle too see how it could be much cheaper than one dedicated vehicle. Perhaps if as above a vintage jeep was used then the costs could be reduced but if there's towing or milage restrictions then it may not be feasible either. The vintage vehicle is probably going to require frequent maintenance and unless your reasonably handy yourself then labour and downtime is a real killer.

Vittu

Albert Johnson wrote: »

This is something I see a lot of lads at but I have to wonder about the merits of insuring, taxing, testing and maintaining two vehicles. Yes it has it's own benefits but I'd wonder about the financial advantages, I struggle too see how it could be much cheaper than one dedicated vehicle. Perhaps if as above a vintage jeep was used then the costs could be reduced but if there's towing or milage restrictions then it may not be feasible either. The vintage vehicle is probably going to require frequent maintenance and unless your reasonably handy yourself then labour and downtime is a real killer.

The cost is something you need to weigh up but it is an option. Not that it worries me but commercial vehicles are for work and not private use and this leaves you open to possible problems, though I haven't heard of it been enforced lately.

Albert Johnson

Vittu wrote: »

The cost is something you need to weigh up but it is an option. Not that it worries me but commercial vehicles are for work and not private use and this leaves you open to possible problems, though I haven't heard of it been enforced lately.

Yes there is a grey area around commercial vehicles and what constitutes commercial use however this is at the discretion of the purchaser. What are the limitations around vintage insurance as regards towing and mileage? Are you insured to use it as your primary vehicle if necessary and would towing trailers as part of your farming business violate the vintage declaration.

Vittu

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Yes there is a grey area around commercial vehicles and what constitutes commercial use however this is at the discretion of the purchaser. What are the limitations around vintage insurance as regards towing and mileage? Are you insured to use it as your primary vehicle if necessary and would towing trailers as part of your farming business violate the vintage declaration.

No experience in that field...

Albert Johnson

Vittu wrote: »

No experience in that field...

I meant that as more of an open ended question rather than addressing it directly at yourself. My apologies if there was any confusion.

bigroad

Vintage policy is for vehicles older than 20 years in most cases.I I don't think it covers bringing livestock to the mart in a trailer.

Vittu

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I meant that as more of an open ended question rather than addressing it directly at yourself. My apologies if there was any confusion.

I guessed that, no apologies needed. I think I was aiming at a lame joke.

I'll stick with the day job

Albert Johnson

Albert Johnson wrote: »

This is something I see a lot of lads at but I have to wonder about the merits of insuring, taxing, testing and maintaining two vehicles. Yes it has it's own benefits but I'd wonder about the financial advantages, I struggle too see how it could be much cheaper than one dedicated vehicle. Perhaps if as above a vintage jeep was used then the costs could be reduced but if there's towing or milage restrictions then it may not be feasible either. The vintage vehicle is probably going to require frequent maintenance and unless your reasonably handy yourself then labour and downtime is a real killer.

It’s not just about cost, if you have a nice car or nice 4x4 you don’t necessarily want to mess it up using it on the farm. Also most households need two cars anyway so one good family vehicle and one which can be used for farm work but also get you to work etc.

selectamatic

At 90km a day what you want is comfort.

Crewcab "converted" x5 or touareg is what I'd recommend. Both are relatively reliable too as long as they are maintained properly.

Audi q7 could be considered too.

Albert Johnson

Ari Ashy Stenography wrote: »

It’s not just about cost, if you have a nice car or nice 4x4 you don’t necessarily want to mess it up using it on the farm. Also most households need two cars anyway so one good family vehicle and one which can be used for farm work but also get you to work etc.

Of course it's not solely about cost but the economics will still have a big bearing on it for most people. As for the 2 cars comment I'd be assuming that most households would already have 2 vehicles and that an older jeep for farm use would make that 3 vehicles. If you get rid of one of the cars you now need a jeep that's capable of the daily commute as well as all things farming so we're back to the OP's situation.

Having both a commercial and a private vehicle brings it's own challenges as regards insurance (NCB ect) as well as increased running costs. It's not impossible but there's both positive and negatives as with everything. I don't see why you couldn't keep the jeep reasonably respectable looking if you really wanted to, some lads would break a crow bar in a bog alright but it depends on the person. I've come to the conclusion that you were better off with one good vehicle, tractor ect rather than a few middling ones but it's an individual decision.

selectamatic

selectamatic wrote: »

At 90km a day what you want is comfort.

Crewcab "converted" x5 or touareg is what I'd recommend. Both are relatively reliable too as long as they are maintained properly.

Audi q7 could be considered too.

Audi Q7 and X5s will be really expensive on tyres.
Whatever about keeping an X5 in suspension bits and pieces a Q7 is a minefield.

The OP mentioned a budget of 10 to 15k, that won't buy a fresh X5. Also, limited ground clearance and unprotected components makes the X5 really unsuited for any rough work and there's no low range either.

Nothing about the X5 should appeal to the OP, IMO.

Stationmaster

I'm in a very similar position to the OP except I wouldn't need it for as much weekly milage but would need for school runs etc.. Lots of details suggestions here. If money allowed I'm leaning towards the Landcruiser but not sure I'd get one for that money.

selectamatic

Augeo wrote: »

Audi Q7 and X5s will be really expensive on tyres.
Whatever about keeping an X5 in suspension bits and pieces a Q7 is a minefield.

The OP mentioned a budget of 10 to 15k, that won't buy a fresh X5. Also, limited ground clearance and unprotected components makes the X5 really unsuited for any rough work and there's no low range either.

Nothing about the X5 should appeal to the OP, IMO.

15k will buy you a very very clean 07-13 crew cabbed x5. Excellent six cylinder engine that is nearly on par with economical 4 cylinder consumption.
Decent auto box, good towing capacity 2700kg iirc and great performance and comfort.

It should definitely be on the radar.

No real mention of rough work in the op and a 3.0 diesel x5 won't need low range with 5 weanlings in tow. Set of crossclimate tyres and away ya go. Well able for wet yards and eating up work commutes.

All modern 4x4's are well able to throw a big repair bill so nothing about an x5 should scare a potential suitor.

There are pitfalls to nearly every 4x4 from about 08-2016 Its just a matter of deciding what suits best.

For what the op described a 2000kg towing capacity won't be good enough so if I was him I'd rule out all the smaller suv's. Options are pretty limited after that. It's either go full farm spec suv or luxury suv or rethink things entirely.

Albert Johnson

Stationmaster wrote: »

I'm in a very similar position to the OP except I wouldn't need it for as much weekly milage but would need for school runs etc.. Lots of details suggestions here. If money allowed I'm leaning towards the Landcruiser but not sure I'd get one for that money.

Despite being over priced and not that fuel efficient the Land cruiser is still a very popular jeep for a reason. If you could stretch to the OP's budget of €15,000 then I'd expect to buy a good 2006-10 older shape example, I'm assuming you'd be going for a lwb crewcab model. Yes they have there faults as with every jeep ( chassis rusting would be my biggest fear of mid noughties models) but there the most popular jeep on the road and a good example should give years of service and still be easily sold in years to come.

selectamatic

selectamatic wrote: »

15k will buy you a very very clean 07-13 crew cabbed x5. ........

Let's be realistic.
It'll be an 08, 09 or 10 at best........ 10 years old. 2011 on models are out of budget unless they've huge miles.

You seem to have a penchant for one, I reckon they should be the last thing on the OPs radar. Well 2nd last, I'd let the Q7 be in last position.

They are a luxury car/SUV ...... 10 year old examples cannot be viewed in the same light from a reliability viewpoint as primitive in comparison yokes like a Hilux etc.

selectamatic

Augeo wrote: »

Let's be realistic.
It'll be an 08, 09 or 10 at best........ 10 years old. 2011 on models are out of budget unless they've huge miles.

You seem to have a penchant for one, I reckon they should be the last thing on the OPs radar. Well 2nd last, I'd let the Q7 be in last position.

They are a luxury car/SUV ...... 10 year old examples cannot be viewed in the same light from a reliability viewpoint as primitive in comparison yokes like a Hilux etc.

Any of them up as far as the new model are pretty cheap truth be told but ya they'll have miles on them for sure.

I wouldn't be a major fan of them really in the sense that they can't compete at proper work and offroad stuff compared to landcruisers, pajeros, hiluxs, l200's dmaxs etc. But all of those aren't really suited to 90km commutes. They're by in large sows on diesel at anything over 80km/h and the proper crewcabs aren't comfy. Other options are limited to non existent.


I'd rate the x5 as the best and most reliable out of many of the luxury suv's. I certainly wouldn't be recommending Discover III's or Range Rovers.

Vittu

Problem solved