Real world Kona64

Whatwicklow

Hi, I have just rolled over 10k on my 192 Kona & thought id stick up a few words.

New -10,000km average consumption is 17 KWH/100 so i am down to about 370 km per charge. That's a Wicklow to south dublin commute, few city trips & some weekend driving.

Doesn't sound too bad until you go near a motorway speeds - that consumption figure hovers around the 25 kwh/100 so careful planning needed if you have a long trip to do.

So far not surprises with the car, its good around the city and less so for the rest of my driving, The biggest drag is the wheelspin and the lack of feel from the car before it lets go - I am not looking forward to a winter of tyre slipping (although I am looking forward to swapping the stock tyres for something better able to handle the torque)

Any questions please feel free to ask.

Kramer

Whatwicklow wrote: »

Hi, I have just rolled over 10k on my 192 Kona & thought id stick up a few words.

Good, real world consumption figures there. Heading into winter so they'll disimprove for the next several months too.
Nothing wrong with that range & an ideal car for many.

Well wear.

ps. I had one of the best laughs in recent times in a Kona in an empty shopping centre car park when I disabled traction control to show a friend how much wheelspin there was with the torque from the motor.
Probably 20 meters later both front wheels were still spinning in sync & two beautiful parallel back stripes appeared behind from the cloud of blue smoke.
Looked for all the world like Hoonigan in his rwd had been there .

unkel

Whatwicklow wrote: »

Doesn't sound too bad until you go near a motorway speeds - that consumption figure hovers around the 25 kwh/100 so careful planning needed if you have a long trip to do.

At 120km/h? Presuming your 64kWh battery has all 64kWh avaiblable (like Hyundai Ioniq has, most other EVs are advertised as a pack capacity, but you have a lot less available), that still means a motorway range (in winter?) of over 250km, so Dublin to Cork. Not too bad, very few EVs can do that.

krissovo

Whatwicklow wrote: »

The biggest drag is the wheelspin and the lack of feel from the car before it lets go - I am not looking forward to a winter of tyre slipping (although I am looking forward to swapping the stock tyres for something better able to handle the torque)

Any questions please feel free to ask.

Does it have a fronk? A bag or two sand would help:)

The wheelspin drives me nuts in the Leaf which is why its gone next week. I drove into Cork this afternoon in the lashing wind and rain and struggled at most junctions. No chance of a quick zip out into traffic like the I3.

Lumen

I drove a Kona in the wet and found the wheelspin nothing but entertaining. It doesn't affect the steering like the FWD ICE cars I've driven, there was no axle tramp.

Salary Negotiator

I’ve a Kona with 20,000kms on it now, it’s used to commute M1/M50/N7 for about 1,100kms per week.

It’s charged to 80% each night and the range at 80% is 300km +\-. Today I drove 200km and there’s currently 117km range left and 30% battery though I drove home through Drumcondra so speed was lower than usual. Weather didn’t help either.

The last few days it’s been down to 40-50kms and 10-15% battery.

The display shows 16.3kw/100km.

10-10-20

Speaking of tyres, we have a Kona64 192 with 9k on it. 130km, 4 days per week. Grip is an issue at the front tyres in the wet, for sure.

I put Pirelli P7 Cinturato Blue tyres on my ICE car (Pug 508 SW) and I can't fault their grip. They are recommended for EV's too. I'd be tempted to get them for the Kona also.
The ones which you want are rated AA across the board, but there appear to be two versions - the Irish supplier version which is rated BB and the version from the online sites which is AA.

Whatwicklow

unkel wrote: »

At 120km/h? Presuming your 64kWh battery has all 64kWh avaiblable (like Hyundai Ioniq has, most other EVs are advertised as a pack capacity, but you have a lot less available), that still means a motorway range (in winter?) of over 250km, so Dublin to Cork. Not too bad, very few EVs can do that.

I'd prefer to arrive at my destination with some juice in the tank,

listermint

Whatwicklow wrote: »

I'd prefer to arrive at my destination with some juice in the tank,

But Dublin to cork is 254km. You just said you were getting 370km.

How much juice do you want in the tank when you arrive.......??

Mike9832

listermint wrote: »

But Dublin to cork is 254km. You just said you were getting 370km.

How much juice do you want in the tank when you arrive.......??

He will only get 250km at 120km/h

370km will need to be at 90-100

Friend of mine working had 2 of them in his workplace from fleetplan on trial, fantastic yokes which everyone loved but they struggled to do Limerick - Dublin

Driving at 130-140km/h was a no go, they were left sitting there in the end as diesel was more suitable for that driving

physioman

Mike9832 wrote: »

He will only get 250km at 120km/h

370km will need to be at 90-100

Friend of mine working had 2 of them in his workplace from fleetplan on trial, fantastic yokes which everyone loved but they struggled to do Limerick - Dublin

Driving at 130-140km/h was a no go, they were left sitting there in the end as diesel was more suitable for that driving

That's my problem with the evs. If you want to do normal motorway speeds very few of them would be suitable to do long distances on a full charge. Telsa s may be the only exception. They are getting there but not there yet

krissovo

physioman wrote: »

That's my problem with the evs. If you want to do normal motorway speeds very few of them would be suitable to do long distances on a full charge. Telsa s may be the only exception. They are getting there but not there yet

130/140 can hardly be considered "Normal", thats breaking the law plus relatively few drivers stay at this speed. If I stick my cruise control at 130 from Dublin to Cork only a very small percentage overtake me:)

120/130 would be reasonable expectation and I find these speeds are ok for EV's, its where I drive now and even though i hit slightly higher consumption if you planning correctly it does not impact the much.

Lumen

physioman wrote: »

That's my problem with the evs. If you want to do normal motorway speeds very few of them would be suitable to do long distances on a full charge. Telsa s may be the only exception. They are getting there but not there yet

I realise it probably comes across as tedious and puritanical to point this out, but driving at 130-140kph on public roads in Ireland is illegal.

Mike9832

krissovo wrote: »

130/140 can hardly be considered "Normal", thats breaking the law plus relatively few drivers stay at this speed. If I stick my cruise control at 130 from Dublin to Cork only a very small percentage overtake me:)

120/130 would be reasonable expectation and I find these speeds are ok for EV's, its where I drive now and even though i hit slightly higher consumption if you planning correctly it does not impact the much.

When fuel is free with pool cars, they all drive a little over the limit

If they were paying for fuel they would stick to it

physioman

Lumen wrote: »

I realise it probably comes across as tedious and puritanical to point this out, but driving at 130-140kph on public roads in Ireland is illegal.

Where did I state in my post about doing 130-140kph? The speed limit is 120kph. You can get good range even at that speed

Mike9832

physioman wrote: »

That's my problem with the evs. If you want to do normal motorway speeds very few of them would be suitable to do long distances on a full charge. Telsa s may be the only exception. They are getting there but not there yet

Agree they are not motorway cruisers, even Tesla

One of the issues is that a litre of diesel has an equivalent of 10 kWh of energy. A good motorway cruiser these days has 70 litre tanks, that's 700kWh of energy

Diesel is maybe 25-30% efficent

At a guess a diesel cruiser will have around 2.5-3 times the energy carrying capacity of a Tesla. The biggest battery Tesla 100kWh carries around an equivalent of only 20-25 litres of diesel

Anyone driving quickly 130+ knows 20-25 litres of diesel ( a third of a tank ) is not much at speed

physioman

krissovo wrote: »

130/140 can hardly be considered "Normal", thats breaking the law plus relatively few drivers stay at this speed. If I stick my cruise control at 130 from Dublin to Cork only a very small percentage overtake me:)

120/130 would be reasonable expectation and I find these speeds are ok for EV's, its where I drive now and even though i hit slightly higher consumption if you planning correctly it does not impact the much.

Yet again where did I state 130-140kph. People should stop jumping the gun until they read people's statements and state facts

ted1

physioman wrote: »

Yet again where did I state 130-140kph. People should stop jumping the gun until they read people's statements and state facts

The poster before you said driving at 130-140, and you agreed with him by saying that’s normal speed for a motorway. You may not have intended it, but that’s how it came across.

physioman

ted1 wrote: »

The poster before you said driving at 130-140, and you agreed with him by saying that’s normal speed for a motorway. You may not have intended it, but that’s how it came across.

He posted doing 250km at 120kph v 370km at 90/100 kph. Some difference in range....Anyway...

unkel

Whatwicklow wrote: »

I'd prefer to arrive at my destination with some juice in the tank,

Driven at the speed limits in winter, I'd say it's fair to expect to do this journey without problems with quite a bit of juice left in the tank.

But start driving an EV at speeds of over 90km/h and you dramatically reduce the range as speed increases, as an EV just hasn't a lot of energy on board. Having a very aerodynamic EV alleviates this as Tesla knew a decade ago (and most EV manufacturers still don't seem to understand)

Lumen

Mike9832 wrote: »

Agree they are not motorway cruisers, even Tesla

This is only true if there are no DC fast chargers on the motorways and/or you consider a stop every 300km to be onerous. The fast charging problem is likely to be largely fixed in the next year for much of the country.

Most of my trips are under 400km, and even in the case of 400km I'd just need to stick in 20kWh at some point between 150 and 300km to finish the trip, which would take less than 20 mins in the Kona and 10 mins in the Tesla.

I do not consider a 10 minute stop in a 400km journey to be onerous.

Mike9832

Lumen wrote: »

This is only true if there are no DC fast chargers on the motorways and/or you consider a stop every 300km to be onerous. The fast charging problem is likely to be largely fixed in the next year for much of the country.

Most of my trips are under 400km, and even in the case of 400km I'd just need to stick in 20kWh at some point between 150 and 300km to finish the trip, which would take less than 20 mins in the Kona and 10 mins in the Tesla.

I do not consider a 10 minute stop in a 400km journey to be onerous.

Of course

It's not a problem here

When I say motorway cruisers i'm more talking like for like,

Big 3l diesel Mercedes on the autobahn vs Tesla

At 200km/h on the autobahn a Tesla ain't doing more than 200km, while a big diesel is doing 500km+ at that speed

German enviromental minister gave his 90kWh Tesla back over complaining he couldn't do 150km on the autobahn at speed, it's the reality of high speed and EV's for now

https://jalopnik.com/german-environmental-minister-returned-tesla-model-s-ov-1798363790

Lumen

That's a great argument to be putting forward on boards.de

Mike9832

Lumen wrote: »

That's a great argument to be putting forward on boards.de

Some people drive fast here too

I normally cruise at 130-140 on motorway and Audi's etc be flying past

Lumen

Mike9832 wrote: »

Some people drive fast here too

I normally cruise at 130-140 on motorway and Audi's etc be flying past

I could equally argue that a fossil car is unsuitable for motorway use in Ireland because it doesn't have Autopilot enabling me to doze off whilst drunk behind the wheel.

Mike9832

Lumen wrote: »

I could equally argue that a fossil car is unsuitable for motorway use in Ireland because it doesn't have Autopilot enabling me to doze off whilst drunk behind the wheel.

If you want

Whatwicklow

OP Here, I have tried a few long trips and I won't do one again with the kona, last example was Tuesday just gone.

Left wicklow with 399 in tank going 225 to mayo topped up in Enfield while having a coffee and I got to Ballina with 130 remaining.

Drove to charger in Ballaghaderreen, not working and 75 left in tank
Drove to Roscommon found a charger topped up to 55‰ and headed for Newlands Cross
I came off the N4 with 19km left and got to Newlands with 12 left.
Hotel charger was not working, public charger was occupied.
Did my meeting, topped up went home.

It was too much hassle, luckily I have the option of of the wife's diesel, I'll take that for the next trip

Whatwicklow

listermint wrote: »

But Dublin to cork is 254km. You just said you were getting 370km.

How much juice do you want in the tank when you arrive.......??

It doesn't work like that, the car consumes way more (+50%) at motorway speeds, a Cork trip would need the full tank to get you there

liamog

I like to use abetterrouteplanner to estimate the impact of speed.
I set the reference speed to 200% (allows you to go at double the speed limit) then use the max speed to limit actual speed.
I've also given a 20% range reduction due to Heavy Rain or Snow.

On a journey from Merrion Square to Patricks St Cork starting with 100% and finishing with at least 10%.
If I set the max speed at 130km/h, we do the journey in 2h15 with a 5 min charging stop at Ionity in Cashel.
If I set the max speed at 115km/h, we do the journey in 2h15 without a charging stop.

Mike9832

Whatwicklow wrote: »

OP Here, I have tried a few long trips and I won't do one again with the kona, last example was Tuesday just gone.

Left wicklow with 399 in tank going 225 to mayo topped up in Enfield while having a coffee and I got to Ballina with 130 remaining.

Drove to charger in Ballaghaderreen, not working and 75 left in tank
Drove to Roscommon found a charger topped up to 55‰ and headed for Newlands Cross
I came off the N4 with 19km left and got to Newlands with 12 left.
Hotel charger was not working, public charger was occupied.
Did my meeting, topped up went home.

It was too much hassle, luckily I have the option of of the wife's diesel, I'll take that for the next trip

Good posts man

Its real world stuff, I like it

Too many posters here make excuses for EVs and totally over estimate range, I like that you don't make excuses and just tell it as it is

Some here will post now that you should slow down, plan better, that the consumption can't be right " my Ioniq can do 200km, balls out on the motorway" Kona should do way more

Reality is a so so efficient Kona with a full 64kWh battery is like having 15-20litres/€25.00 of diesel when driving at 120km/h

That doesn't get you that far and know one wants to drive with low fuel warning light on so knock another 15-20% off that

liamog

Ahh come on now Thierry, anybody claiming 200 km range in an Ioniq at >130 km/h is regularly shot down on this forum.
By too many posters, you're probably talking about that one guy who was selling his car and claimed 270km motorway range.

Obviously a 64 kWh Kona is going to have a higher range at normal Irish motorways speeds than a 28 kWh Ioniq.
Unfortunately OP we are at a point where planning ahead can make the world of difference, especially when heading towards the North West of the country, it's basically the badlands!

This all just shows just how relevant the i3 "Rex" still is today in my opinion, can take it anywhere any time. Sure the Kona has a nice bit of range but still not a replacement for the Rex for me in fairness.

The network needs to improve a lot, not just a back of chargers on the motorways, they are needed in a lot more places, garages should be made install chargers. Charging speed has to improve too.

It's a shame the Kona doesn't have a 3 phase AC charger, like in the Zoe, 22 Kw would make a big difference even 11 Kw makes a big difference in the i3.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote: »

This all just shows just how relevant the i3 "Rex" still is today in my opinion, can take it anywhere any time. Sure the Kona has a nice bit of range but still not a replacement for the Rex for me in fairness.

The network needs to improve a lot, not just a back of chargers on the motorways, they are needed in a lot more places, garages should be made install chargers. Charging speed has to improve too.

It's a shame the Kona doesn't have a 3 phase AC charger, like in the Zoe, 22 Kw would make a big difference even 11 Kw makes a big difference in the i3.

I'm a big fan of 11/22 kW AC, very handy. AC chargers are and will be more ubiquitous moving forward (they are cheaper, take less space, need less maintenance etc). Not sure why the Koreans do only 7kW chargers in their cars.

On a different note, I'm quite sure Mike9832 would also say that the Rex tank is too small and many other things:cool:

For him - this is a new experimental technology and requires change of mindset. If you're not willing to do that then there's no point discussing anything further if you ignore the fundamentals. . Perhaps wait for solid state batteries and then come back...You're clearly not an innovator and even not an early adopter.

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

Good posts man

Its real world stuff, I like it

Too many posters here make excuses for EVs and totally over estimate range, I like that you don't make excuses and just tell it as it is

Some here will post now that you should slow down, plan better, that the consumption can't be right " my Ioniq can do 200km, balls out on the motorway" Kona should do way more

Reality is a so so efficient Kona with a full 64kWh battery is like having 15-20litres/€25.00 of diesel when driving at 120km/h

That doesn't get you that far and know one wants to drive with low fuel warning light on so knock another 15-20% off that

I agree , it's nonsense posts like this that made me buy my Ioniq only to find that not only does it not do 200 on the motorway, even 170km is not an option in the depths of winter. So I sold it. Another boardsie has it now, and I hope it's suiting his regular trips!



I've always tried to be as honest as I can, it helps others considering EV.
No point pointing to the gom on my Tesla that says 430km and saying I'm taking a 430km motorway trip, motorway range probably 300-350 at this time of year.


I'm sure the Kona is the same as the Ioniq, badly impacted by the weather, but with 2.5* the battery on board it's less of an issue!!

Mickeroo

I honestly don't understand how anyone could think an Ioniq would do 200km on the motorway if they are a regular reader of this forum or did even the most basic research on the car online before buying it. I don't think even a dealer would claim it's capable of that.

liamog

Mickeroo wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how anyone could think an Ioniq would do 200km on the motorway if they are a regular reader of this forum or did even the most basic research on the car online before buying it. I don't think even a dealer would claim it's capable of that.

Laps of the M50 at rush hour, you'd probably get 250km of motorway range

Mike9832

Mickeroo wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how anyone could think an Ioniq would do 200km on the motorway if they are a regular reader of this forum or did even the most basic research on the car online before buying it. I don't think even a dealer would claim it's capable of that.

200km is not a bad exaggeration

Unkel reckons he will be getting 300km next summer in his and he doesn't take it easy

Black_Knight

Mickeroo wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how anyone could think an Ioniq would do 200km on the motorway if they are a regular reader of this forum or did even the most basic research on the car online before buying it. I don't think even a dealer would claim it's capable of that.

Oh yes they would!! Most of them are completely clueless about EVs. They'll spout any crap to get the sale.

Mickeroo

Mike9832 wrote: »

200km is not a bad exaggeration

Unkel reckons he will be getting 300km next summer in his and he doesn't take it easy

Yeah well that's hyper miling in perfect conditions, completely irrelevant to anyone who just wants to buy a car to use as a normal car. And unkel exaggerates stuff all the time, but even he wouldn't exaggerate to the point of claiming the car can do 200km at full pelt.

Black_Knight wrote: »

Oh yes they would!! Most of them are completely clueless about EVs. They'll spout any crap to get the sale.

Yeah, you're right. i just made that up to suit my own point with absolutely nothing to back me up, Mike rubbing off on me I guess :P

charlieIRL

Black_Knight wrote: »

Oh yes they would!! Most of them are completely clueless about EVs. They'll spout any crap to get the sale.

I was told I'd get 250 to 270kms all year round from an eGolf by one salesman, I'm getting 140kms now!! They haven't a clue.

ELM327

Mickeroo wrote: »

I honestly don't understand how anyone could think an Ioniq would do 200km on the motorway if they are a regular reader of this forum or did even the most basic research on the car online before buying it. I don't think even a dealer would claim it's capable of that.

I was a regular reader of this forum for some time before getting the car.
Some posters were claiming 200km on the motorway, but that was in the summer. I didnt realise how susceptible the Ioniq is to bad weather vs other ev

Mickeroo

ELM327 wrote: »

I was a regular reader of this forum for some time before getting the car.
Some posters were claiming 200km on the motorway, but that was in the summer. I didnt realise how susceptible the Ioniq is to bad weather vs other ev

I read that thread from end to end before i even considered buying the car and I don't think I ever witnessed anyone claim that, but if they did then I hold my hands up. Between that thread and Bjorn/Zero Tailpipe on youtube I had a very good idea of what the car was capable of I thought.

Regards bad weather, I agree there, the impact is definitely worse than I expected going by the last few weeks, implied range of between 160km and 180km not even averaging 100km/h. I think to get good range in winter you have to pre condition the car and drive non stop, stopping murders the range.

listermint

Whatwicklow wrote: »

OP Here, I have tried a few long trips and I won't do one again with the kona, last example was Tuesday just gone.

Left wicklow with 399 in tank going 225 to mayo topped up in Enfield while having a coffee and I got to Ballina with 130 remaining.

Drove to charger in Ballaghaderreen, not working and 75 left in tank
Drove to Roscommon found a charger topped up to 55‰ and headed for Newlands Cross
I came off the N4 with 19km left and got to Newlands with 12 left.
Hotel charger was not working, public charger was occupied.
Did my meeting, topped up went home.

It was too much hassle, luckily I have the option of of the wife's diesel, I'll take that for the next trip

So not withstanding the broken charger. (lets say it was not broken and all worked fine)

what was the cost of that trip to your pocket versus taking the wifes diesel. real world figures ?

Whatwicklow

500KM @ 20KW / Hour @23c / kw works out at about €5.5 for the trip in fuel (i bought my recharge at 40c/KW in Roscommon)


Thanks - Corrected to €23

Real costs were
it took 3 additional hours
it took 4 cups of shi**y coffee
the repayment on KONA is nearly €250/month over the ICE Kona i do c 2500km/month so thats plus .1/KM

Combined fuel & extra over repayment (over equivalent KONA) was €5.5 + €50 (500KM) so €55.50 round trip

the wife's golf 1.6d @ 50 mpg for 312 miles @ €1.35 liter would have cost about €40

Kramer

Whatwicklow wrote: »

500KM @ 20KW / Hour @23c / kw works out at about €5.5 for the trip in fuel (i bought my recharge at 40c/KW in Roscommon)

500km @ 20kWh/100km = 100kWh
100kWh x €0.23 = €23.00

Kramer

Whatwicklow wrote: »

Real costs were......................

Oh dear, where to start .

Home charging?
Charged at home overnight @ 8c/kWh = €5.12 which covers (very conservatively), the first 300km.
The last 200km then at €0.29c/kWh (Ecars - approx 40kWh) = €11.60.

Still under €17 for 500km or 3.4c/km.

Far cheaper than diesel with just one 50 minute charge stop required.

I don't think EV motoring is for you to be honest .

Mike9832

Kramer wrote: »

Oh dear, where to start .

Home charging?
Charged at home overnight @ 8c/kWh = €5.12 which covers (very conservatively), the first 300km.
The last 200km then at €0.29c/kWh (Ecars - approx 40kWh) = €11.60.

Still under €17 for 500km or 3.4c/km.

Far cheaper than diesel with just one 50 minute charge stop required.

I don't think EV motoring is for you to be honest .

Did u bother to read his journey?

First point the car can't do 300km on motorway, figures worthless after that

Service station coffee/food probably took all the savings away tbh, what are else you supposed to do waiting hours for charging

Kramer

Mike9832 wrote: »

Did u bother to read his journey?

Na, I just plucked my figures out of my ar..... .

OP said they covered 500km in a Kona & this took over 3 hours longer than an ICE equivalent. Furthermore, they said they started with a full battery!
They apparently have no idea what a kWh is or how to calculate charging costs.

OP should immediately get rid of the Kona & get a diesel as that is the narrative behind their posts. An EV is not for them.

Perplexed then as to why they decided to purchase an EV in the first place .

Mike9832

Whatwicklow wrote: »

500KM

Real costs were
it took 3 additional hours
it took 4 cups of shi**y coffee

On a cold, damp November day

Nice

Can only imagine the grief I would get off wife with young kids in the car, all to spare €20 she would say , while spending a small fortune on young ones in service station lol

Best case on that 500km journey is still alot of charge time

Drive 200km, charge for 45 mins for another 200km, stop again for another charge

Mike9832

Kramer wrote: »

Na, I just plucked my figures out of my ar..... .

OP said they covered 500km in a Kona & this took over 3 hours longer than an ICE equivalent. Furthermore, they said they started with a full battery!
They apparently have no idea what a kWh is or how to calculate charging costs.

OP should immediately get rid of the Kona & get a diesel as that is the narrative behind their posts. An EV is not for them.

Perplexed then as to why they decided to purchase an EV in the first place .

You pulled out figures cause car can't do anywhere near 300km at motorway speed

Calculate again perphaps?

ELM327

Mike9832 wrote: »

On a cold, damp November day

Nice

Can only imagine the grief I would get off wife with young kids in the car, all to spare €20 she would say , while spending a small fortune on young ones in service station lol

Best case on that 500km journey is still alot of charge time

Drive 200km, charge for 45 mins for another 200km, stop again for another charge

If they set out with 100% they should get 300 km, then charge for 1 hour and get another 200km. At which point they will be near 0 again and have to either charge or have destination charging.


1 hour charging at 45kW net after charger loss and heater loss gains you 45kWh or 70%.



64kWh usable, allow 2kWh as you don't want to be at complete 0. 62kWh for 300km is 20.66kWh/100km. Achievable but not easy in a Kona at this time of year, especially running heating etc. So I agree, 300km motorway would be difficult in a Kona at this time of year.