Criminal Inquiry launched into the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation

Overheal · 08-11-2019 6:48pm

notobtuse wrote: »

Lindsey Graham received an update from Attorney General William Barr about the classification review of Inspector General Michael Horowitz's report. Big things coming about abuses in the FISA application. Reportedly Howowitz also provided a draft copy of the report to the Justice Department and the FBI for the classification review, and a public copy of the report is expected to be released to the public at around Thanksgiving. It also has been reported that Horowitz has been in contact with US attorney responsible for filing criminal charges. Methinks Brennan and Clapper better enjoy their turkey dinner because afterwards they’ll be eating crow, and after that... prison supplied bread and water.

Lot of chickens being counted here. Not the least of which is the idea that even pretending that big people like Clapper and Brennan are indicted, they would be thrown in jail ahead of trial. Also thanksgiving is not an effective time to drop a tome, fewer than normal will read it, much less the news reports about it.

Spencerfreeman · 08-11-2019 6:57pm

Overheal wrote: »

take your time...

lol, I did look damn you. It was associated with the kiddie stuff, I'm trying to leave that alone for a while.

From memory it was about 300 acres given without charge by Merv Griffin to a questionable orphanage. The FBI were making inquiries and the agent in charge related his discussion with Trump before the opening of the Taj Mahal.
He said he told Trump that the decision wasn't his to make and he'd pass it upstairs.

notobtuse · 13-11-2019 8:49pm

Inspector General Horowitz has asked witnesses to review his report of FISA abuses, which apparently is the final step before its release. It might also provide insight into the parallel investigation being conducted by US Attorney John Durham into FBI surveillance abuses against the Trump campaign. There are reports two initial criminal indictments will come from it, with Comey being one of them. I wonder how much his GoFundMe (because I’ve been a baaaaad boy) begging for dollars account has raised so far?

James Brown · 13-11-2019 9:20pm

Comey nobbled Clinton. I don't think either side wants him.

Yep...

None of these clandestine parleys has gotten more attention than the June 9, 2016 meeting held in Trump Tower in Manhattan between a top Team Trump delegation (including Donald Trump, Jr. and Paul Manafort, Trump’s then-campaign manager who has an inordinate degree of dubious Kremlin links) and several Russians, led by Natalya Veselnitskaya, a lawyer known in Moscow for her links to Kremlin power circles.
https://observer.com/2018/04/lawyer-from-trump-tower-meeting-natalya-veselnitskaya-is-an-informant/

As a tax payer, (Republicans pay some tax right?), you cool with money being spent on this dog and pony show, which is failing to garner the much needed attention for distractionary purposes?

notobtuse · 13-11-2019 10:14pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

As a tax payer, (Republicans pay some tax right?), you cool with money being spent on this dog and pony show, which is failing to garner the much needed attention for distractionary purposes?

To investigate probably the biggest threat to our republic from within, in the history of our nation... you betcha.

Overheal · 14-11-2019 12:16am

notobtuse wrote: »

To investigate probably the biggest threat to our republic from within, in the history of our nation... you betcha.

That's a hypetastic upselll

Ihatewhahabies · 14-11-2019 1:44pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

Anybody thats a threat to the status quo in American politics and the establishment is a Russian Stooge or Agent. Its getting tiresome now and laughable some people still swallow it.

And how the UK will try and blame Russia/Putin for Brexit when it happens

Even the EU union gets into the act when stating that only Russia/Putin will be happy over the various european problems such as the possible break up of Spain etc

SJW Lover · 14-11-2019 2:44pm

Ihatewhahabies wrote: »

And how the UK will try and blame Russia/Putin for Brexit when it happens

Even the EU union gets into the act when stating that only Russia/Putin will be happy over the various european problems such as the possible break up of Spain etc

And all the UK will have to do is allege that it happened. That is known as "evidence" on boards.ie. :pac:

Outlaw Pete · 19-11-2019 2:40pm

Michael Horowitz will testify before the US Senate on his findings re alleged FISA abuse on December 11th.

Should make a nice appetizer at least to the upcoming Durham-Barr report.

https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1196574657954144258

Overheal · 19-11-2019 3:43pm

Horowitz is not a political official and has served under both Democrats and Republicans. Whatever his testimony reveals it carries weight.

Overheal · 19-11-2019 4:28pm

Vindman testifies the company mentioned in this excerpt was Burisma. Whatever investigation he is talking about, it apparently involves Ambassador Yovanovitch who is mentioned in the same thought. The only thing I know of that would link the ambassador, and Burisma, is John Solomon's reporting:

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/470656-yovanovitch-says-solomon-stories-were-used-to-push-false-allegations

Which corroborates Vindman's testimony.

Goldman in his questioning highlighted three categories of attacks against Yovanovitch.

"One category included the attacks against you, which you referenced in your opening statement including that you had bad-mouthed the president and had given the prosecutor general a do-not-prosecute list," Goldman said. "There was another that included allegations of Ukrainian interference in a 2016 election and then there was a third that related to allegations concerning Burisma and the Bidens, is that accurate?"

"Yes," Yovanovitch answered, adding that they "seemed to be promoted by those around Mayor Giuliani."

"These attacks were being repeated by the president himself and his son," she added, which she said made her "worried."

Such allegations also received pickup on Fox News, she noted.

Yovanovitch said it was false that she had bad-mouthed the president and handed Lutsenko a do-not-prosecute list, a charge initially included in a column by Solomon in The Hill after an interview with Lutsenko.
Yovanovitch and the State Department have pushed back on that claim, saying it is false there was such a list.

I think it's beyond reasonable doubt now that was the investigation that Zelensky pledged to zero in on. One that bootstraps the Bidens to a conspiracy theory involving the ouster of his Ambassador and a 'do-not prosecute' conspiracy theory. Republicans want to implicate her in a scheme where Biden protected his son from being audited in the Ukraine.

If that's the case then I think both Republicans and Democrats can agree Trump wanted Zelensky to investigate the DNP list, the Ambassador's involvement, Burisma, and the Bidens, and yes allegations Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election. This presents a very icky impeachment problem for the incumbent.

Overheal · 19-11-2019 5:00pm

Zelensky refused to deny the quid pro quo today:

Zelensky refused to confirm or deny Tuesday whether he was prepared to publicly announce an investigation into Burisma after his call with Trump.

Zelensky, in a video posted by CNN, is seen narrowing his eyes and then subtly rolling them, before brushing off the question.

“I think everybody in Ukraine is so tired about Burisma. We have our country. We have our independence, we have our problems and questions. That’s it,” he said and then walked away from the cameras.

Outlaw Pete · 22-11-2019 2:35am

And so it begins, some of Horowitz's findings are starting to leak out:

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1197660620499357706

Exclusive: FBI official under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe

An FBI official is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

It's unknown how significant a role the altered document played in the FBI's investigation of Page and whether the FISA warrant would have been approved without the document. The alterations were significant enough to have shifted the document's meaning and came up during a part of Horowitz's FISA review where details were classified, according to the sources.

Some witnesses who have been interviewed in Horowitz's investigation have said they expect the inspector general to find mistakes in the FBI's handling of the FISA process, but that those mistakes do not undermine the premise for the FBI's investigation.

American intelligence agencies and the Justice Department have not swayed from their finding that Russia interfered in the 2016 election by hacking the Democrats and spreading pro-Trump propaganda online. And even former top Trump campaign officials have corroborated special counsel Robert Mueller's finding that the Trump campaign planned some of its strategy around the Russian hacks, and had multiple contacts with Kremlin-linked individuals in 2016.

Horowitz's investigators conducted more than 100 witness interviews in their review. During one of interviews this year, they confronted the witness about the document. The witness admitted to the change, the sources said.

The identity or rank of the FBI employee under investigation isn't yet known, and it's not clear whether the employee still works in the federal government. No charges that could reflect the situation have been filed publicly in court.

The Justice Department and inspector general's office declined to comment.

For years the mainstream media ignored evidence that this kind of thing had gone on, indeed they took part in the suppression of such evidence, labelling it 'right wing conspiracy theories' - well now they can no longer do that, and no doubt they will claim they were impartial all along and just reporting the news.

Woodenfloor · 22-11-2019 2:43am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

And so it begins, some of Horowitz's findings are starting to leak out:

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1197660620499357706

For years the mainstream media ignored evidence that this kind of thing had gone on, indeed they took part in the suppression of such evidence, labelling it 'right wing conspiracy theories' - well now they can no longer do that, and no doubt they will claim they were impartial all along and just reporting the news.

But but but orange man bad
CNN told me

Outlaw Pete · 22-11-2019 2:58am

Aye, the group think has been incredulous in that regard, has to be said. Wilful ignorance.

As for which FBI agent it is, I'd say it's more than likely Comey again (he had a "higher loyalty" after all, so believed the rules didn't apply to him) as I actually don't think the FBI (as an organization) played too much of a nefarious role in what happened. Lot of evidence that they were lied to themselves and not told information that was available to the CIA.

I think FISA abuse is the least of it all personally. That was all just mainly DNC and some (maybe just one) FBI agent who felt Clinton would win and so why not do their bit to trigger an investigation, especially if the CIA was saying the Steele dossier was matching intel they had (it didn't, the source was the same and Brennan knew that).

No, there's more because someone had to have tasked Mifsud, he didn't try to link the Trump campaign with the Kremlin for the craic, and I don't see why George P would make it all up.

Interesting times ahead.

Woodenfloor · 22-11-2019 3:19am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Aye, the group think has been incredulous in that regard, has to be said. Wilful ignorance.

As for which FBI agent it is, I'd say it's more than likely Comey again (he had a "higher loyalty" after all, so believed the rules didn't apply to him) as I actually don't think the FBI (as an organization) played too much of a nefarious role in what happened. Lot of evidence that they were lied to themselves and not told information that was available to the CIA.

I think FISA abuse is the least of it all personally. That was all just mainly DNC and some (maybe just one) FBI agent who felt Clinton would win and so why not do their bit to trigger an investigation, especially if the CIA was saying the Steele dossier was matching intel they had (it didn't, the source was the same and Brennan knew that).

No, there's more because someone had to have tasked Mifsud, he didn't try to link the Trump campaign with the Kremlin for the craic, and I don't see why George P would make it all up.

Interesting times ahead.

I remember 2015 when hillary and barrack were placing troops on the Russian border
And what they did to colonel Gadaffi
Thank the Founding Father's for the electoral college

ebbsy · 22-11-2019 4:40am

Cannot believe people are still peddling these lies.

MadYaker · 22-11-2019 6:14am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

And so it begins, some of Horowitz's findings are starting to leak out:

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1197660620499357706

For years the mainstream media ignored evidence that this kind of thing had gone on, indeed they took part in the suppression of such evidence, labelling it 'right wing conspiracy theories' - well now they can no longer do that, and no doubt they will claim they were impartial all along and just reporting the news.

You’re jumping the gun. We have one allegation that a document was altered inappropriately and witnesses in questioning said it won’t undermine the FBIs investigation. No idea what sort of document or what warrant it related to. When is this report supposed to be released I can’t find a date anywhere online?

Overheal · 22-11-2019 4:53pm

“ even as it’s being reported on Friday that a former FBI lawyer will potentially be criminally investigated by John Durham for altering a FISA surveillance application, it’s also being reported that this “low-level” individual’s alleged misconduct “did not alter [Inspector General Michael] Horowitz’s finding that the surveillance application of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page had a proper legal and factual basis.”

Sadtrombone.mp3 for Pete I think

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/despite-probe-of-low-level-ex-fbi-lawyer-carter-page-surveillance-had-proper-legal-and-factual-basis-officials/

James Brown · 22-11-2019 5:18pm

If I were an American tax payer I'd be pissed at this wasteful exercise in spin and one-up-manship.

notobtuse · 22-11-2019 5:34pm

Seems the report will be released December 9th and the Senate Judiciary Committee plans to hold a hearing with testimony from Horowitz on Dec 11th. Apparently every stone that is overturned in the FISA application and spying, something else very troubling emerges, which is what has delayed the release.

Update:
https://hotair.com/archives/john-s-2/2019/11/21/wow-fbi-official-investigated-altering-russia-probe-document/

There needs to be criminal incitements for all involved and not just reprimands otherwise what is the deterrent from White House officials and political appointees in the FBI, DOJ, CIA and State Department from illegally affecting an election and staging a soft coup again in the future?

Overheal · 22-11-2019 6:07pm

I agree, sources of corruption in the United States Government not only must be uprooted but engineered against in the future.

That also happens to be why I did not vote for Hillary Clinton.

Outlaw Pete · 22-11-2019 8:25pm

Overheal wrote: »

Sadtrombone.mp3 for Pete I think

Another play to the gallery. Any chance you could address me if you have a point to make? Cheers.

I haven't said anything to contradict what you emboldened. Like I said, I believe this is just the start of what will ultimately come out.

ebbsy wrote: »

Cannot believe people are still peddling these lies.

It was said it was lies that Comey leaked information to the media in an effort to trigger further investigations of the Trump campaign. It was said it was lies that the FISA rules were broken.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If I were an American tax payer I'd be pissed at this wasteful exercise in spin and one-up-manship.

lol. One-up-manship?? What the hell are you on about? The Trump-Russia collusion investigation didn't find evidence enough to warrant a prosecution and when evidence is uncovered which showed that there was wrongdoing in that investigation, that's the wasteful exercise and you call it spin??

The double standards of the left of show again as ever.

Sorry folks, these investigations are happening and will result in indictments. Sad that so many of you only want to see the rule of law applied when it's non-liberals in the crosshairs.

Overheal · 22-11-2019 8:46pm

They should of course be indicted. But it doesn’t reportedly mean the FISA surveillance was illegal.

Outlaw Pete · 22-11-2019 11:42pm

Overheal wrote: »

They should of course be indicted. But it doesn’t reportedly mean the FISA surveillance was illegal.

I never said that the current findings meant that the surveillance was illegal, you're making a strawman argument in an effort to deflect. I said the FISA rules were broken. I do however believe there is a chance that could be shown to be the case down the line.

Meanwhile, the FBI agent has been named:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mueller-lawyer-with-anti-trump-bias-is-ex-fbi-official-facing-fisa-criminal-investigation

Overheal · 23-11-2019 12:34am

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I never said that the current findings meant that the surveillance was illegal, you're making a strawman argument in an effort to deflect. I said the FISA rules were broken. I do however believe there is a chance that could be shown to be the case down the line.

Meanwhile, the FBI agent has been named:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mueller-lawyer-with-anti-trump-bias-is-ex-fbi-official-facing-fisa-criminal-investigation

Sorry that’s been the whole thrust of the effort to have Horowitz investigate: fish up some evidence that the FISA investigation against Trump was inadmissible or some such.