Inventor signs a multi-million deal to produce his electric car battery that will...

....take drivers 1,500 miles without needing to charge

Probably not true you'd imagine but if it is ....


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7592485/Father-eight-invents-electric-car-battery-drivers-1-500-miles-without-charging-it.html?fbclid=IwAR1B9qOQ3Gshe9gt6IYfhryoJws8a7rhIM2pqIvknDJZx2Bgei9Qy4BCMZw

"Finally, and most importantly, the firm is to produce kits to convert ordinary petrol and diesel cars into hybrids, by fitting them with aluminium-air cells and electric motors on the rear wheels.

A driver will be able to choose whether to run the car on fossil fuel or electricity. The cost of each conversion, Jackson says, will be about £3,500, and they will be available early next year. This, he adds, will be the stepping-stone to a full-blown electric vehicle powered by aluminium-air fuel cells"

celtic_oz

was reading this with interest over the weekend and came across a different article that had this sentence

" Of course, if the owner has to spend £5,000 every 1500 miles, the economic case for the new energy source is compromised somewhat. Time will tell."

I dont real understand what runs down and what is built up at recharge time ?

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/20/uk-man-invents-aluminum-air-battery-in-his-garage/

zilog_jones

celtic_oz wrote: »

I dont real understand what runs down and what is built up at recharge time ?

I think you missed a paragraph there. They're single use batteries, non-rechargeable. They claim they're recyclable but that costs energy too, and there undoubtedly will be some waste. Sounds like a non-runner to me.

KCross

zilog_jones wrote: »

I think you missed a paragraph there. They're single use batteries, non-rechargeable. They claim they're recyclable but that costs energy too, and there undoubtedly will be some waste. Sounds like a non-runner to me.

Yea, seems like it has poor overall efficiency due to that recycling effort and would be expensive. The comparison to the costs of Li-ion are pointless when they are not rechargeable.

At the moment its just another "battery breakthrough" that hasnt seen the light of day....

KCross

KCross wrote: »

....... would be expensive................

Relative to a €40k Hyundai Kona it might not be that expensive for low mileage users.

Alkers

It's not a battery, it's a fuel cell. It doesn't recharge and must be repalced when depleted. The article also mentions that costs around 7p per mile, which is cheaper than fuel but a lot more expensive than EVs

ElNino

From their Facebook page

June Hayward: How long will they take to charge.

Métalectrique: Hi June, the short answer is 90 seconds, but it's not recharging, it's refuelling. Our power system uses Aluminium metal as a fuel. Once the Aluminium is depleted, the whole 'battery' is swapped for a new one in your car. You drive to the service station, We swap your battery, you drive off and we take your old 'battery'. Your old 'battery' will be refuelled with aluminium and ready for use in another vehicle. This cycle continues on. Hope this makes sense.

Kevin Price: And how much for each battery swap

Métalectrique: You would only pay for the mileage you use. 8 pence / mile. The swap would be included in that.

I think that his proposal may be the way of the future when fossil fuels start drying up but I would fear that he won't be around to see that day.

Hotblack Desiato

Battery swapping was tried before and failed dismally.

ELM327

This could be interesting if they can replace the aluminum with a catalyst

What do you mean ELM327? Catalyst is something that makes a reaction that is naturally going to happen to happen quicker. So like adding a fan in a combustion process: You can't replace wood with a fan but you can use one to increase the rate of the burning process. (Well actually you can also burn the fan but that's not relevant.)

Or do you mean something like the alleged flow batteries?

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Battery swapping was tried before and failed dismally.

Yes. To me this is equivalent of having your phone powered with Litihium AAA batteries. Not many people would prefer and pay dearly swapping batteries once a week if they can rechange every night for fraction of the cost.

ELM327

samih wrote: »

What do you mean ELM327? Catalyst is something that makes a reaction that is naturally going to happen to happen quicker. So like adding a fan in a combustion process: You can't replace wood with a fan but you can use one to increase the rate of the burning process. (Well actually you can also burn the fan but that's not relevant.)

Or do you mean something like the alleged flow batteries?

I mean if they can replace or reduce the need for aluminum and instead make it a catalyst so it doesnt get combusted. This is what a catalyst is, it encourages a reaction to happen but does not get consumed in the reaction.

celtic_oz

ELM327 wrote: »

I mean if they can replace or reduce the need for aluminum and instead make it a catalyst so it doesnt get combusted. This is what a catalyst is, it encourages a reaction to happen but does not get consumed in the reaction.

The very essence of the reaction is to consume the aluminium

Aluminium–air batteries are primary cells, i.e., non-rechargeable. Once the aluminium anode is consumed by its reaction with atmospheric oxygen at a cathode immersed in a water-based electrolyte to form hydrated aluminium oxide, the battery will no longer produce electricity. However, it is possible to mechanically recharge the battery with new aluminium anodes made from recycling the hydrated aluminium oxide. Such recycling would be essential if aluminium–air batteries are to be widely adopted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

ELM327

celtic_oz wrote: »

The very essence of the reaction is to consume the aluminium



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery

I understand that is how it is now, I am postulating on ways to make it scalable.
1500km with recharging/refueling is better than fossil fuel cars now.

physioman

ElNino wrote: »

From their Facebook page





I think that his proposal may be the way of the future when fossil fuels start drying up but I would fear that he won't be around to see that day.

So if battery has to be replaced at 1500km based on the above price per mile that would be 75 pounds. Not bad.

_Brian

Has to be worth developing to see the potential it has.
Discounting it without developing and bringing in more scientific sources would be foolish

is_that_so

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Battery swapping was tried before and failed dismally.

When? Technology moves on and finds ways to solve problems. Surely that is a known factor in this current approach.

Mickeroo

is_that_so wrote: »

When? Technology moves on and finds ways to solve problems. Surely that is a known factor in this current approach.

I think Tesla trialed it in the US at some point.

Varik

The £5k 1500 miles would be the equivalent volume as the tesla from the sound of it, not a handy job swapping that out each time even if you don't do huge mileage and it's not that often. A smaller capacity for a vehicle designed for it could allow it to be consumer changeable, and still have a large range.

Considering non plug in hybrids get treated as a feature, someone handing over £50 even 1k miles might suit some.

You'd also still probably want some li-ion batteries/capacitor in it to benefit from regenerative braking.

MetzgerMeister

physioman wrote: »

So if battery has to be replaced at 1500km based on the above price per mile that would be 75 pounds. Not bad.

ELM327 wrote: »

I understand that is how it is now, I am postulating on ways to make it scalable.
1500km with recharging/refueling is better than fossil fuel cars now.

It's 1,500 miles therefore 2,414 km

Lumen

I dunno, it's not an absolutely terrible idea.

If they were the weight of calor gas bottles they could be packaged as frunk-mounted crates and sold in garages.

1300Wh/kg means a 25kg battery would give 32.5kWh. Two of those and you have the capacity of a Kona. Three of them and you have the same as a top spec Tesla.

ELM327

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

It's 1,500 miles therefore 2,414 km

Better again!
Damn metric system, tool of the divil

Donnielighto

Ultimately any power source has to take its power from the sun. Tidal, solar wind renewable of any sort comes from the sun doesn't it. Or could the used aluminum be repurposed?

Marcusm

is_that_so wrote: »

When? Technology moves on and finds ways to solve problems. Surely that is a known factor in this current approach.

It was called Better Place in Denmark and Israel in conjunction with renault and Nissan.

ELM327

Marcusm wrote: »

It was called Better Place in Denmark and Israel in conjunction with renault and Nissan.

And Tesla had one or two in CA.
All complete failures. Battery swaps don't work.

MetzgerMeister

Donnielighto wrote: »

Ultimately any power source has to take its power from the sun. Tidal, solar wind renewable of any sort comes from the sun doesn't it. Or could the used aluminum be repurposed?

Tidal energy is created by the moon and wind, not the sun. Solar energy is from the sun.

Mickeroo

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Tidal energy is created by the moon and wind, not the sun. Solar energy is from the sun.

The sun also affects the tides, though not as much as the moon. Also, you can't create energy

Hotblack Desiato

Donnielighto wrote: »

Ultimately any power source has to take its power from the sun. Tidal, solar wind renewable of any sort comes from the sun doesn't it. Or could the used aluminum be repurposed?

Geothermal energy comes from radioactive decay in the Earth's core

galwaytt

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Geothermal energy comes from radioactive decay in the Earth's core

Nuclear: now you're talking.

Years ago, we had a stand at the Energy Show in the RDS. One kind of 'eccentric' guy came along: raincoat, plastic carrier bag, and admired our stand....and then he started......about the oil company conspiracies on keeping all other energy sources at bay including, would you believe, a nuclear 'pellet' ......a tiny one of which could power, well, anything........for decades.

Imagine a small 'pill' you could drop into your 'tank' and run for a few years......

.....mmmm, he might just have been on to something.


Anyhoo, I saw him several times over a few hours: once he'd vented on our stand....he then proceeded to repeat the process on several others...

ELM327

You'd think if he knew about that he'd be selling it and keeping the details hushed until patented!

Old diesel

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Battery swapping was tried before and failed dismally.

Top Gear Magazine actually did a trip in China in a Chinese companies EV and availed of that companies battery swop facilities.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Battery swapping was tried before and failed dismally.

I'm sure EVs were tried before the likes of the Leaf "succeeded" .

Markcheese

Does this have potential as a range extender (the battery equivalent of bmws motorbike engine generator),
so your electric car comfortably has a range of 150km on full charge, which is grand 95 percent of the time,
But for that 3 or 4 times a year when extra range would suit, you just stick in that small suitcase size extra battery (or 2 if necessary) in the special slot in the boot, plug it in and away you go, only using it when the main battery is dead,
Yes you'll have to buy a new one when its dead (probably in a motorway service centre or something)