Art:Subject choice demand

frillyleaf

Hi,

What is the demand like for art teachers at post primary level? Are there any art teachers here that are having difficulty finding work or are you managing to get hours each term?

I know there is an Art Education course in NCAD so 20 people roughly graduating per year.

There is also a PME in the same college so there are more people graduating on top of this each year.How are Art teachers getting on in general or are many of them emigrating or going into different field .

Has anyone studied this and gone a different route to teaching?

CraftySue

frillyleaf not many teaching positions in Art, schools tend to have one art teacher. Often when you see jobs its can be only for 3 hours. Students are savy, and alot even though they might be good at art will take up a different subject at leaving cert as they know its very difficult to get an "A" grade in art, and look for the points elsewhere. NCAD have both the combined teaching degree, and posrgrad teaching, but limerick and Cork alo do postgrads in teaching- so that makes alot of competition for very few jobs. Many of the students who did art teaching with me, ended up leaving teaching as they got fed up with the instabilily- moving around, low hours, etc. If your hoping for a job- I would consider other options.

emilymemily

You can also do art teaching in Limerick, Cork, Belfast, Coleraine, Scotland, Wales and England, there are lots of UK trained post primary teachers in Ireland adding to the competition.
Most art teachers sub for almost 10 years before finding permanent, stable work, in my experience working with art teachers one took a special needs teaching job unrelated to art, another subbed for 15 before getting a 10 hour permanent contract, another worked in England for 6 years, subbed in Ireland for 3 years before getting a fixed term contract, another got an 11 hour fixed term job share straight after their PME, another casually subbed in her local town for years before switching to something else.
Everyones different but generally, it takes allot of years to secure permanency, some never do. Most teachers now move to the UK to work but there is good reason why the UK has difficulty employing and keeping teachers, their system is horrendous and most Irish teachers leave to come back home after a few years.

If you really want it then its up to you if you want to put the time, money and sacrifice but if there are other options you would consider instead, I would strongly suggest you consider them first.

frillyleaf

CraftySue wrote: »

frillyleaf not many teaching positions in Art, schools tend to have one art teacher. Often when you see jobs its can be only for 3 hours. Students are savy, and alot even though they might be good at art will take up a different subject at leaving cert as they know its very difficult to get an "A" grade in art, and look for the points elsewhere. NCAD have both the combined teaching degree, and posrgrad teaching, but limerick and Cork alo do postgrads in teaching- so that makes alot of competition for very few jobs. Many of the students who did art teaching with me, ended up leaving teaching as they got fed up with the instabilily- moving around, low hours, etc. If your hoping for a job- I would consider other options.

Yes, there are a lot of graduates particularly because the Education degree and PME are graduating each year. I wonder would a PME have more of chance of job as it is a masters, in other words has graduating with the degree become less valuable now compared to what it used to be.


Yes, it seems like a lot of competition for very few jobs as there are so many people graduating. Did you continue with the art teaching?

The moving around is not possible for me. I am not flexible in terms of where I can live. What did the other teachers you studied with end up doing instead of teaching? Did they use the degree or go into completely different careers. Thank you

frillyleaf

emilymemily wrote: »

You can also do art teaching in Limerick, Cork, Belfast, Coleraine, Scotland, Wales and England, there are lots of UK trained post primary teachers in Ireland adding to the competition.
Most art teachers sub for almost 10 years before finding permanent, stable work, in my experience working with art teachers one took a special needs teaching job unrelated to art, another subbed for 15 before getting a 10 hour permanent contract, another worked in England for 6 years, subbed in Ireland for 3 years before getting a fixed term contract, another got an 11 hour fixed term job share straight after their PME, another casually subbed in her local town for years before switching to something else.
Everyones different but generally, it takes allot of years to secure permanency, some never do. Most teachers now move to the UK to work but there is good reason why the UK has difficulty employing and keeping teachers, their system is horrendous and most Irish teachers leave to come back home after a few years.


If you really want it then its up to you if you want to put the time, money and sacrifice but if there are other options you would consider instead, I would strongly suggest you consider them first.

I thought to teach in post primary schools in Ireland you need to qualify in Ireland to teach art?

It must be very stressful not knowing where you are going to be from one month to the next, or every September.

If the hours are low it could take up a full working day depending on how the classes are spread out, eg if one class was at 10 and the next was at 3. So it sounds like you could getting paid for few hours but have to be in the school for nearly a full day Is part of the reason there is a teacher ''shortage'' at the moment?

When you say most teachers do you mean most art teachers?

Postgrad10

Don’t do it!! Honestly if art is your thing go look for other careers in it. Do not rely on teaching as a career. It’s not a thing of people saying there are little jobs/ little hours. Using a weather warning scale it’s a very deep red alert.

CraftySue

frillyleaf wrote: »

Y...... has graduating with the degree become less valuable now compared to what it used to be.......It was never a valuable degree, art teaching has always been difficult to get into

Did you continue with the art teaching? Yes, but I,ve had to add on to teaching, and taking on extra qualifications in special education. I now work mostly in special education

What did the other teachers you studied with end up doing instead of teaching? Did they use the degree or go into completely different careers. Range of areas, none needing the teaching post grad, alot work as artists, others work in event management,art therapy, arts officer, different business' they have set up, some went into primary teaching

Like someone said its an oversaturated market, and you could be setting yourself up for alot of heartache jobwise.

frillyleaf

Postgrad10 wrote: »

Don’t do it!! Honestly if art is your thing go look for other careers in it. Do not rely on teaching as a career. It’s not a thing of people saying there are little jobs/ little hours. Using a weather warning scale it’s a very deep red alert.

Are you an art teacher? I think people have a perception that teaching is a great job once you get into it in terms of holidays but I don't really think this is the case now.

A few people here are saying there are little to no permanent jobs in art teaching. So I would assume this means you don't get paid for any time off. There is a lot of time off so if not getting paid for 5 months is a massive hit to salary:(

dory

frillyleaf wrote: »

A few people here are saying there are little to no permanent jobs in art teaching. So I would assume this means you don't get paid for any time off. There is a lot of time off so if not getting paid for 5 months is a massive hit to salary:(

You'll only get paid if you're permanent or have a year long contract. Those on temporary contracts such as maternity leave don't. Most schools have one or one and a half art teachers (meaning the other half of that teacher is teaching other subjects. There's about 800 schools in the country, that's not a lot of jobs. And not every school offers art.

Postgrad10

frillyleaf wrote: »

Are you an art teacher? I think people have a perception that teaching is a great job once you get into it in terms of holidays but I don't really think this is the case now.

A few people here are saying there are little to no permanent jobs in art teaching. So I would assume this means you don't get paid for any time off. There is a lot of time off so if not getting paid for 5 months is a massive hit to salary:(

Not an art teacher but have two art teacher friends. One went from mat leave to mat leave and the other was last offered 3 hours a week contract last time she looked for an art job. Both have gone in to other careers.

emilymemily

frillyleaf wrote: »

I thought to teach in post primary schools in Ireland you need to qualify in Ireland to teach art?

It must be very stressful not knowing where you are going to be from one month to the next, or every September.

If the hours are low it could take up a full working day depending on how the classes are spread out, eg if one class was at 10 and the next was at 3. So it sounds like you could getting paid for few hours but have to be in the school for nearly a full day Is part of the reason there is a teacher ''shortage'' at the moment?

When you say most teachers do you mean most art teachers?

You can qualify anywhere to teach in Ireland but you only get conditional registration with the teaching council, this means you have to meet a set of regulations set by the teaching council to be considered qualified. Theres an exam that needs to be taken for example and it can be an expensive and time consuming process.

Classes can be spread out but that goes for most, if not all subjects. Generally if your classes are that spread out you can leave the school, you dont have to wait around all day and often sub teachers with few classes make up hours through taking on CSPE, SPHE or supervision classes.
You definitely have to weigh your options though, if a school thats a few hours away from your home is offering 4 hours a week, it may not be the best choice for you to take those hours as the time and cost may not be worth it.

At this stage though, with the internet and the amount of teachers voicing their frustrations about lack of jobs and hours, anyone who gets into teaching, particularly subjects like art know what theyre getting into, there's no reason they cant find everything they need to know about difficulty getting jobs. It takes a quick google search.
If I had the same information available to me when I started out as whats available to people wanting to become teachers now, I likely would have had doubts about persuing teaching and probably would have gone into something different so really, at this stage, anyone who pursues teaching cant complain about the lack of hours and job security as they know what theyre getting into.

What I find most laughable is people with real responsibilities like children and mortgage who get into teaching and then complain about lack of security.

If youre lucky you will land a permanent job within 8 - 10 years but dont expect to get anything secure, especially when just finished college and with a subject like art where every school only has 1 or 2 art teachers, even big schools with 900 - 1000 students only have 2 art teachers, the likeliness of getting something permanent within 5 years after graduating is a total and utter pipe dream.