A new Irish Capital

Hello 2D Person Below · 14-10-2019 9:46pm

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Tipp Town.

I'd rather pledge allegiance to Elizabeth.

joeysoap · 14-10-2019 10:59pm

Aegir wrote: »

Ireland could follow the EU's example and have the capital in Dublin, but for one week each month, pack the whole thing up in to storage boxes and ship it all up to Belfast.

Sounds like a remarkably sensible thing to do, especially for Belfast hotels.

They’re full to the door now ( at weekends anyway). As are the restaurants. Good buzz about the city now too.

saabsaab · 15-12-2019 11:42pm

The recent election results show a greater number of non-unionist MPs elected for the first time ever looks like a UI isn't too far off and this may be an issue.

_Kaiser_ · 16-12-2019 11:12am

saabsaab wrote: »

The recent election results show a greater number of non-unionist MPs elected for the first time ever looks like a UI isn't too far off and this may be an issue.

I for one hope it doesn't happen.

Or have you forgotten in the midst of the romanticism that we have serious issues here now that we can't get a handle on, the largely unknown economic effects of Brexit to consider, the waste, incompetence and corruption that is the hallmark of our political system, a justice and police authority that can't even deal with low life scum effectively etc .

And you want to add in NI's political, economic and security issues as well? For what? What benefit would a UI actually be to either the North or the Republic?

saabsaab · 16-12-2019 2:03pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I for one hope it doesn't happen.

Or have you forgotten in the midst of the romanticism that we have serious issues here now that we can't get a handle on, the largely unknown economic effects of Brexit to consider, the waste, incompetence and corruption that is the hallmark of our political system, a justice and police authority that can't even deal with low life scum effectively etc .

And you want to add in NI's political, economic and security issues as well? For what? What benefit would a UI actually be to either the North or the Republic?

You have a legitimate concern with all of this but on the other hand the resources of the six would also be available too. I'm sure that to offset the costs involved there would be money provided from the EU for this purpose for several years and perhaps some from Westminster.
Also long term having a failed statelet on our (and now EU borders) would not be in the 26 counties interest from a security and economic standpoint.
There would be new opportunities in an all Ireland context economies of scale I believe that's where a new Capital would come into its own, new people, new ideas amd a new way of doing things.
Whatever you or I think the weight of History will make a United Ireland happen sometime soon.

Yawlboy · 16-12-2019 2:11pm

Cobh AKA Queenstown

Ready4Boarding · 16-12-2019 2:12pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Whatever you or I think the weight of History will make a United Ireland happen sometime soon.

God, I fcuking hate Irish nationalism.

Nift · 16-12-2019 2:55pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_multiple_capitals

An easy enough solution would be joint capitals in Belfast and Dublin.

There won't be a United Ireland anytime soon, particularly when Southern Republicans realise the chages that are needed. SF are already realistic about this, in fairness to them

You either have a joint/shared culture or you start again. So that means celebrating the battle of the boyne, 1916, or scrapping that stuff altogether, new flag, new anthem, joint capitals. Its so messy that its highly unlikely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_lines

People should remember that both communties want these walls as they fear the other.

People think Brexit is a mess? Try re-unification of two peoples that can't stand each other.

We need to put ourselves in their shoes. A united Ireland could be the end of their identity / culture. We need to facilitate their mindset as painful as it is. We stil lget comments along the lines of "go back to Scotland/england" on the journal, facebook etc.

Some Ulster Unionists will spill blood to protect their orange/unionism. Its inevitable. We had lads here happily bomb women and children, and passes given to some very vile people who still operate today in crime. it is not beyond imagination that a united ireland brings about the armalite again.. People need to be careful for what they wish for.

the fact that nearly every suggestion here was in the Republic speaks for itself imo. In a United Ireland, there won't be a Republic. Are people prepared for that? Down in inner city Dublin, West Belfast, parts of bray, Moyross, North Cork, Finglas, parts of Cavan and Donegal and lots of other places? Not a ****ing chance.

James Brown · 16-12-2019 4:02pm

The arsehole of Kerry. Then we can put and end to idiots blaming all government decisions on them up in Dublin like every TD is from Dublin.

James Brown · 16-12-2019 4:05pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I for one hope it doesn't happen.

Or have you forgotten in the midst of the romanticism that we have serious issues here now that we can't get a handle on, the largely unknown economic effects of Brexit to consider, the waste, incompetence and corruption that is the hallmark of our political system, a justice and police authority that can't even deal with low life scum effectively etc .

And you want to add in NI's political, economic and security issues as well? For what? What benefit would a UI actually be to either the North or the Republic?

It's about righting a wrong. It will give the people proper representation in their own government not beholden to Westminster. It'll solve the hard/soft border issue and Irish language issue

_Kaiser_ · 16-12-2019 4:54pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's about righting a wrong. It will give the people proper representation in their own government not beholden to Westminster. It'll solve the hard/soft border issue and Irish language issue

I'm not convinced.

What wrong are we righting, considering there's never been a united Ireland under Irish rule? 800 years argument? Like it or not that was acceptable statecraft at the time and half of Europe was out conolising. If fate had been different, Ireland would have been at the same thing.

Our government is beholden to the EU which you could argue is a lot less representative and accountable. We already have rural TD's complaining about Dublin focused politics. Why would it suddenly be different under a united Ireland?

The land border issue I'll grant you would likely be addressed. Not sure what the language issue is beyond that we already spend far too much resources on propping it up as it is

What about the security issues from the die hards who refuse to accept it? (can't see them just shrugging and saying "oh well!)

What do we do with thousands of civil servants when our own services are already bloated and inefficient?
How about practical things like asking people in NI to pay 50/60 quid for a gp visit, or significantly more motor tax?

Also, how do we propose to pay for all this? I think that when taxpayers here are hit with a solidarity tax in their payslips, the romanticism will soon fall away. I can't see London or Brussels picking up the tab completely. Aren't Germans still paying for the reunification with East Germany too? How long will we paying for this idea?

As I said, we're a small island with massive debt and domestic infrastructure and governance problems that we can't even address effectively.
I can't see any realistic benefits to either side for this.

saabsaab · 16-12-2019 5:09pm

There will have to be compromise on this side of the border that's a given. That it will cost is also a given but we can expect some significant help with this. Anyway, from talking to unionists some will admit. quietly, that they see a UI being a reality in the future. We should be willing to welcome our northern brethren into a new shared future, the alternative will not be kind to anyone.

saabsaab · 16-12-2019 5:12pm

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

God, I fcuking hate Irish nationalism.

Just 'Irish' nationalism? or are other kinds OK?

saabsaab · 16-12-2019 6:07pm

What some don't realize is that a UI may not be something that the 26 counties can accept or reject. If or when Westminster says 'off with ye' to the North, what will happen they will probably want to join with the rest of Ireland. This will not be rejected by any Southern Government.

James Brown · 16-12-2019 7:12pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm not convinced.

What wrong are we righting, considering there's never been a united Ireland under Irish rule? 800 years argument? Like it or not that was acceptable statecraft at the time and half of Europe was out conolising. If fate had been different, Ireland would have been at the same thing.

Our government is beholden to the EU which you could argue is a lot less representative and accountable. We already have rural TD's complaining about Dublin focused politics. Why would it suddenly be different under a united Ireland?

The land border issue I'll grant you would likely be addressed. Not sure what the language issue is beyond that we already spend far too much resources on propping it up as it is

What about the security issues from the die hards who refuse to accept it? (can't see them just shrugging and saying "oh well!)

What do we do with thousands of civil servants when our own services are already bloated and inefficient?
How about practical things like asking people in NI to pay 50/60 quid for a gp visit, or significantly more motor tax?

Also, how do we propose to pay for all this? I think that when taxpayers here are hit with a solidarity tax in their payslips, the romanticism will soon fall away. I can't see London or Brussels picking up the tab completely. Aren't Germans still paying for the reunification with East Germany too? How long will we paying for this idea?

As I said, we're a small island with massive debt and domestic infrastructure and governance problems that we can't even address effectively.
I can't see any realistic benefits to either side for this.

Irish people under foreign rule based on a man made border to placate vested interests, a hangover from an all Ireland occupation.

We signed up to the EU.

How do we pay for anything? It's amusing we've never any money for some things but deep pockets for others.

The_Brood · 16-12-2019 7:43pm

Objectively Belfast is a tremendously more pleasant city than Dublin. And it actually has benches for people to sit.

bmc58 · 16-12-2019 7:48pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Is there something wrong with Dublin?

Too much traffic,open drug dealing and drug taking.Rents out of reach of most ordinary people.

saabsaab · 18-12-2019 11:42am

With a 32 county Ireland it would be a new start, time to put things right. It would mean a new flag, anthem and Capital.

_Kaiser_ · 18-12-2019 1:25pm

saabsaab wrote: »

With a 32 county Ireland it would be a new start, time to put things right. It would mean a new flag, anthem and Capital.

You keep repeating the same thing, but largely ignoring the realities put to you in response

Feel free to take a swing at how you'd propose we tackle the economic, security and practical issues I've highlighted above.

Also, aside from retaining their EU membership, what makes you think the people of NI would WANT to live under the same incompetence, waste and corruption that is the hallmark of Irish governance, services and life in general to be honest

saabsaab · 18-12-2019 4:53pm

I believe I have addressed some of these issues before but at the risk of repeating myself I will make the following points.
1) Financial and other supports would be made available from the EU to ease the transition to a UI. In all probability support would be made available from the USA and even Westminster for a time. The EU would may also want an Atlantic naval base (Belfast or Derry on its borders) and it will want to see a success in its latest project.
2) There would be economies of scale in an UI context. One authority instead of two in most services.
3) Contrary to popular opinion far from having a bloated civil/public service the Southern Government has a lower percentage in relation to the overall workforce of most western countries. The northern public service and security services would come under a new remit and would still be available to address any new issues.
4) Any threat from ‘die-hards’ would be dealt with under the new situation as the security and intelligence resources are therein NI at present and won’t have gone away. Any violent dissent, if it did occur, would be very limited anyway as it would not have popular support and no border to run across and escape the consequences of such actions.
5) Also long term having a failed statelet on our (and now EU borders) is/would not be in the 26 counties interest from a security and economic standpoint.
6) As to convincing those in NI, this is to a very large extent already the case as evidenced by recent election results. I also believe that the majority in the South would also be in favour of a UI. In reality the option of things staying as they are may not be available in any case.

7) In the context of a UI there would be an excellent opportunity of a fresh start and a new Government. Current established corruption/inefficiencies would not find it easy to survive a new more open all Ireland regime . Unless you think that Irish people are incapable of governing themselves?

BarryD2 · 18-12-2019 4:57pm

saabsaab wrote: »

With a 32 county Ireland it would be a new start, time to put things right. It would mean a new flag, anthem and Capital.

If it could be done it's be great, but I fear there are too many sacred cows to be put aside at the moment. Maybe when we've matured more in a generation or two..

Tazz T · 18-12-2019 5:25pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

How about Westminster?

*runs away*

This would make perfect sense after the invasion of England by the joint forces of the New United Ireland and Scottish Armies.

saabsaab · 18-12-2019 5:31pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

If it could be done it's be great, but I fear there are too many sacred cows to be put aside at the moment. Maybe when we've matured more in a generation or two..

I think it will be sooner than that. People generally believe that change happens gradually but it usually doesn't like a dam bursting or a flood or a revolution they happen fast even if the situation has been changing beforehand

saabsaab · 04-08-2021 9:36pm

Has Covid brought a UI closer?

Hotblack Desiato · 05-08-2021 1:47pm

On pure 50%+1 grounds, maybe. The older population skews a lot more protestant/unionist/loyalist than the younger generations.

But of course getting the 50%+1 isn't when your problems end, it's when they start...

Hotblack Desiato · 05-08-2021 1:55pm

Can't quote pre-changeover posts 🙄

Good buzz about the city now too.

Buzzing is better than ticking 👍️

It would mean a new flag, anthem and Capital.

Not having the capital in the largest city would be daft.

What the proponents of a new flag and anthem overlook is that then the old ones become the rallying points for everyone who preferred things how they were and/or think the new arrangements are too much of a compromise.

Our anthem is, frankly, a completely shíte dirge, but the flag of the United Irishmen has a large and long significance on this island and should not be given up lightly. It's not that long since we got it back from the rah-rah heads, and now we should just give it away again? I don't fúckin' think so.

Anyway the whole thread is just a very thinly veiled swipe at Dublin. Jealousy is a very immature emotion you know. 😀

saabsaab · 05-08-2021 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710172#Comment_117710172

Many countries don't have the largest city as their capital. There is no good reason for it unless you think everything should be in Dublin even if that results in social problems, lack of housing, water etc.. I have nothing against the Republic's anthem or flag but in a 32 county scenario a change would probably be needed.