Pax weights

adam88

When pilots are calculating their weights etc where do they come up with the average weights for pax, every other figure is known such as luggage, fuel etc but how do they come up with pax weights and if it’s an industry average has it increased over the years ???

Also what would happen if say for example you have an ATR fully booked but instead of average passengers it’s full with big 6ft2 rugby players weighting 100kg minimum, how is this factored ??

Stovepipe

In an ATR, big guys in the middle under the wing and deduct fuel or bags as required. They used to use a "standard" FAA fugure of 170 lbs but it's been a while since the average American was 170lbs. I think it's nearer 200 lbs now and the cargo is moved forward or aft to get the trim figure right and any deductions are notified to the pilot before he taxies out.

billie1b

adam88 wrote: »

When pilots are calculating their weights etc where do they come up with the average weights for pax, every other figure is known such as luggage, fuel etc but how do they come up with pax weights and if it’s an industry average has it increased over the years ???

Also what would happen if say for example you have an ATR fully booked but instead of average passengers it’s full with big 6ft2 rugby players weighting 100kg minimum, how is this factored ??

Apart from the fuel it’s all averages, an adult pax has the average figure of 84kgs, a child is 34kgs, a bag is 13kgs, checked bags are weighed at check-in but it’s still the average weights used when computing the figures. Thats for Boeing 737 NG aircraft, I know Lauda use the same figures on their aircraft too, not sure about other Airbus operators.

Lapmo_Dancer

It’s operator (regulator) specific, not type specific.
Most scheduled EASA airlines:
Male: 88kgs
Female: 70kgs
Child: 35kgs
Infant: 10kgs
Checked bag: 13kgs

martinsvi

in my airline its 84kg for adults, 35kg for children between ages 2 to 12, infants are 0kg and bags are 15kg.

The idea with the bag weight is that they use the actual figures obtained at the gate, but the 15kg number comes in for last minute change (bag has to be offloaded or there is a rush bag that needs adding)

Lustrum

When I used to be a dispatcher we would use 13kg for point-to-point bags, but 20kg for transfer bags, the logic being that someone transfering through somewhere was going to have a heavier bag as they'd most likely be travelling for longer

Irish Steve

Problems with actual vs average weights can and do cause problems.

Locally, all passengers on the Aer Arran Islands service are weighed, as the Islanders are not good at dealing with out of C of G issues, and there is a recent investigation report on AV Herald of a failed (fortunately aborted) take off on a Dash 8, where the problems were an out of limit C of G due to the actual weight of passengers being over the average weights.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4cd54844&opt=0

The Concorde that crashed at Paris was 2 Tonnes overweight when it took off, which didn't help their chances after the tyre blow out that damaged the fuel tank and started the other fatal problems, and there have been other occasions where overweight has been a contributory factor in the incidents that have occurred.

There is little doubt that the average used for passengers (particularly American) are in need of serious review, but the problem with doing that is that a number of aircraft would no longer be able to operate the routes they do with the same passenger loads, so the airlines are very reluctant to push for change, even though they are aware that the present system is flawed. Fortunately, there have been very few serious incidents as a result of the aircraft being overweight, which helps the airlines in their case for not changing things.

Caranica

Flying from San Juan to Puerto Rico we were given a tag with our checked baggage weight then weighed at the gate with our carry on. Seats were allocated based on weight distribution so I didn't get to sit with my ex husband. Small aircraft, maybe 22 pax

Wiki

Under estimated weight was a contributory factor in the crash of Air Midwest Flight 5481

Wiki wrote:

Although the pilots had totaled up the take-off weight of the aircraft before the flight and determined it to be within limits, the plane was actually overloaded and out of balance due to the use of incorrect Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)-approved passenger weight estimates. When checked, the National Transportation Safety Board found that the actual weight of an average passenger was more than 20 pounds (9 kg) greater than estimated. After checking the actual weight of baggage retrieved from the crash site and passengers (based on information from next-of-kin and the medical examiner), it was found that the aircraft was actually 580 pounds (264 kg) above its maximum allowable take-off weight with its center of gravity 5% to the rear of the allowable limit.

1123heavy

adam88 wrote: »

When pilots are calculating their weights etc where do they come up with the average weights for pax, every other figure is known such as luggage, fuel etc but how do they come up with pax weights and if it’s an industry average has it increased over the years ???

Also what would happen if say for example you have an ATR fully booked but instead of average passengers it’s full with big 6ft2 rugby players weighting 100kg minimum, how is this factored ??

https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP696.pdf

CAP 698, this is your document. Section 1 page 5 has it all

Stovepipe

There was a story told of a DC-9 or a 727, one of that generation, having a very, very long takeoff run, on a leg to Las Vegas and they barely got off and climbed away slowly and eventually thumped down in Vegas. One of the cabin crew was jokingly asked by a disembarking passenger, "Were our coins too heavy?" "What coins?" It turned out that there was a coin dealers convention in town and the plane was full of them, each with carry-on bags, full of tradable coins and their hold luggage was also very heavy. Apart from that, the average coin dealing punter was an overweight male in his 50s, so the take off weight was way over the normal.